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Close Combat Vehicle


aizenns
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about Close combat vehicle  

272 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you need this vehicle?

    • Yes for tree
      243
    • Yes for premium
      17
    • No
      12
  2. 2. What BR is better?

    • 8.0
      49
    • 8.3
      23
    • 8.7
      33
    • 9.0
      51
    • 9.3
      30
    • 9.7
      42
    • 10.0
      30
    • I vote No in Q1
      14


  • Technical Moderator

近接戦闘車

Close Combat Vehicle

Quote

 

Quote

 

yqRz70a.png

Offload mobility test

 

Quote

 

JF3CvAi.png

Continuous shooting test

 

 

 

Thanks to @Sawamura_Eriri_! He told me this vehicle and provide lots of documents.

 

About Close Combat Vehicle

近接戦闘車(Kinsetsu-Sentou-sha, Close Combat Vehicle), also called 将来装輪戦闘車両 (Shourai-Sourin-Sentou-Sharyou, Future wheeled combat vehicle) is Japanese armored car that equip 40mm CTA gun.

"Future wheeled combat vehicle" was project of Ministry of Defense to research family of wheeled combat vehicles. They plan family vehicles below:

Spoiler

Vehicle that did not equip cannons

  • Command radio vehicle (指揮通信車)
  • Supply support vehicle (補給支援車)
  • Personal carrier vehicle (人員輸送車)

Vehicle that equip cannons

  • Anti-aircraft machine gun equipped vehicle (対空機関砲搭載車)
  • Anti-ground machine gun equipped vehicle (対地機関砲搭載車)
    • (I) (Personal carrier type) (人員輸送型)
    • (II) (Reconnaissance type) (偵察型)
  • Howitzer equipped vehicle (りゅう弾砲搭載車)
  • Mortar equipped vehicle (迫撃砲搭載車)
  • Anti-tank gun equipped vehicle (対戦車砲搭載車)
  • Multiple rocket launcher (多連装ロケット弾発射機)
  • Mine clearing vehicle (地雷原処理車)

Especially 3 types of this project was actually build.

  • Maneuver Combat Vehicle → Type 16 MCV
  • Fire Combat Vehicle → Wheeled 155 mm Howitzer (Change based vehicle)
  • Close Combat Vehicle

"Close combat vehicle" was planned to replace Type 89 FV and Type 87 RCV, but this vehicle was not adopted. Achievement of this project was inherited to Type 16 MCV and series of "Wheeled Armored Personal Carrier (Kai)". But Komatsu failed to build prototype of Wheeled APC Kai and project cancelled. Perhaps MoD will adopt new armored car (Import or adopt MAV: Mitsubishi Armored Vehicle that based Type 16 MCV)

 

Weapon

40 mm CTA

This is 40 mm machine gun using cased telescoped ammunition. They plan to use this machine gun not only anti-ground but new anti-aircraft vehicle (AW)

Spoiler

cSiW2uA.png

new SPAA plan

from archive of Asagumo newspapers

  • Caliber: 40 mm
  • Case length: about 35 cm
  • Ammunition
    • Prescored fragment shell (調整破片弾)
    • APFSDS
  • Rate of fire
    • Fire 10 clips in 0.8 sec ≒750 RPM

 

Quote
Spoiler

ldVcFqk.png

Spoiler

Dgm1kV4.png

Prescored fragment shell (2) C

Original video source (404 error)

 

Vehicle hull

  • Max speed: unknown (I guess around 100 km/h)
  • Crew: unknown (I guess 5 crews)
  • Armor: unknown
  • Suspension: Hydropneumatic suspension

Hull seems similar to Type 16 MCV.

 

For War Thunder

This vehicle will very powerful SPAA in high rank. Also 40 mm APFSDS in 750 RPM will deadly for not only light armored vehicles but MBTs.

But there are very few information about this, so bit difficult to collect data about this vehicle.

 

Sources

Quote

 

Edited by aizenns
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3
  • Upvote 19

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  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion. :salute:

  • Thanks 1

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Oh yeah, I remember reading about this on Wikipedia! https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/近接戦闘車

 

While it is definitely very cool, it's also really recent - the project was apparently cancelled only around 2009. There's also the problem of there not being enough information on the vehicle - we don't even know basic stuff like the crew number or the top speed. I hope more information can be found out about it.

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  • Technical Moderator
12 minutes ago, Tasty95215 said:

While it is definitely very cool, it's also really recent - the project was apparently cancelled only around 2009. There's also the problem of there not being enough information on the vehicle - we don't even know basic stuff like the crew number or the top speed. I hope more information can be found out about it.

I agree. I hope that MOD publish more data about this vehicle, but it will be difficult...

Well, this will planned for successor of Type 87 ARV so it crew will be 4~5, and wheels/chassis are similar to Type 16 MCV so speed will around 100 km/h on load.

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Wonderful suggestion!

By the way I found a simple document on the 50 mm CTA machine cannon created in 2002 by JSDF.
Is this 50 mm CTA and 40 mm CTA relevant?

 

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/results/14/jigo/

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/results/14/jigo/sankou/07.pdf

 

 

Edited by Lineins

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  • Suggestion Moderator

Yes! Finaly a new topic in the Japan ground section!

 

A +1 for me. This could be a really good modern vehicle for War Thunder one day. It might even be good for a future Rank VII if that ever becomes a thing.

 

---------------------------

Yup Rank VII is a thing now: https://warthunder.com/en/news/6035/current/

---------------------------

Edited by super_cacti
Rank VII is a thing now.

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  • Technical Moderator
1 hour ago, Lineins said:

Wonderful suggestion!

By the way I found a simple document on the 50 mm CTA machine cannon created in 2002 by JSDF.
Is this 50 mm CTA and 40 mm CTA relevant?

 

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/results/14/jigo/

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/results/14/jigo/sankou/07.pdf

 

 

This 40 mm CTA gun based that 50 mm CTA.

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+1

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  • 5 months later...

i feel like there is a oil well instant of the gun. it's weird to look at it. but yes for me.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Those who voted NO, i'd love to know why ? Consider we don't have many vehicles in japanese tree to begin with...

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18 minutes ago, I_NAMELESS_I said:

Those who voted NO, i'd love to know why ? Consider we don't have many vehicles in japanese tree to begin with...

It could be argued that there is too little information available on the vehicle for it to be implemented in-game. I'm not objected to the vehicle itself but it would be nice if we could see more sources. 

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Not a lot of info to go on. I would love to see the vehicle in game though. I think a good place to start is to pick apart the gun and ammunition. Any idea what the respective muzzle velocities of the projectiles are? 

 

Edit:  a quick eyeballing of the projectile dimensions in the cutaway photo allowed me to calculate the weight of a lead projectile with roughly the same dimensions as being about 1.875kg. Of course the projectiles are not pure lead in reality but this number, with a gross assumption of it being accurate, could help gauge the weapon's performance. 

Edited by *N-Glycerin
Added info

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This is a weird one, I'll admit. I'll +1 it though.

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12 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

It could be argued that there is too little information available on the vehicle for it to be implemented in-game. I'm not objected to the vehicle itself but it would be nice if we could see more sources. 

 

I believe the information is out there in Japan preserved somewhere maybe at TRDI (Technical Research & Development Institute), Japan Ministry of Defense or the company that built it, in this case is it Mitsubishi ?

We can't say it doesn't has enough information because not everything is available on the internet.

 

It would be nice if they could send some developers to Japan for research like they did with French vehicles.

Who knows? maybe they come back with even more information of other prototypes than just the CCV...

 

Edited by I_NAMELESS_I
  • Like 4

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On 05/11/2019 at 20:53, I_NAMELESS_I said:

 

I believe the information is out there in Japan preserved somewhere maybe at TRDI (Technical Research & Development Institute), Japan Ministry of Defense or the company that built it, in this case is it Mitsubishi ?

We can't say it doesn't has enough information because not everything is available on the internet.

 

It would be nice if they could send some developers to Japan for research like they did with French vehicles.

Who knows? maybe they come back with even more information of other prototypes than just the CCV...

 

They already have Mai working on getting information in those areas, but I doubt Japan would release much information about the CCV considering how classified they keep their equipment.

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7 hours ago, Wiggly_Armed_Man said:

They already have Mai working on getting information in those areas, but I doubt Japan would release much information about the CCV considering how classified they keep their equipment.

If im remember correctly Mai stoped working for them.

Edited by wulfalier
  • Upvote 1

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/12/2019 at 18:55, Alan_Tovarishch said:

People should know that CT 40mm APFSDS penetrates 150mm LOS (at a slope of 60 degrees) at 1,5km. That warrants a very high BR

Where did the numbers for this come from? Did you just take the values from the UK/FR development of their own 40mm CTA? I don't think it would be much different from theirs, but I'm just curious.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 6 months later...
  • Technical Moderator

Given the current performance of the Type 93 SPAA, Japan is in effect still lacking a viable top tier SPAA, perhaps this would be a viable alternative, given it has HEVT.

  • Upvote 5

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  • 4 weeks later...
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