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Polish Ground Forces Sub-tree Redux (13 June 2023) - Mazurek Dąbrowskiego


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Polish Ground Forces Sub-tree (Please read the Editor's Comment's for reasoning behind this sub-tree).  

102 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want to see Poland in War Thunder?

    • Yes
      46
    • No
      5
  2. 2. IF Poland is unable to be implemented as a standalone tree or part of a Visegrád Group Tree, do you want to see it as a sub-tree of a nation?

    • Yes
      39
    • No
      12
  3. 3. What nation(s) would you want to see it under?

    • U.S.S.R.
      13
    • Germany
      5
    • U.S.A.
      1
    • Sweden
      4
    • None/Other
      28


Flag_of_Poland_svg.png.00729f12af5e20a5d  Polish Ground Forces Sub-tree Redux 1922290691_800px-POL_Wojska_Ldowe_svg.pn

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A Polish PT-91 Twardy during exercise.

 

The Sub-tree:

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Vehicles suggested Battle Rating based on Realistic setting, an incomplete German tree used for reference.

 

Tech Tree Notes:

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  • This tree utilizes an incomplete German Tech Tree as a reference. The only other option would be the USSR tree due to the Polish People's Army adopting several Soviet-era vehicles. The choice was due to Poland and Germany having a long history of vehicles, with Germany using several captured Polish creations, to East Germany and the Polish People's Army both using Soviet vehicles. In modern times, Poland went on purchasing several German Leopard 2 main battle tanks as well as customizing their own, being the Leopard 2PL and Leopard 2PLM. In it's current state, politics aside and with Gaijin starting to add more East German vehicles which some Poland had used, the German tree is the best bet for a Polish Sub-tree if Poland as an independent nation is not implemented. Not to mention, Poland has some representation in the German tree as it is with the Leopard 2PL.
  • I added more East and modern German vehicles to fill out the tree more to show more inclusion for Poland if it were added. As stated previously, Poland utilized a lot of the same vehicles as Germany through both the Cold War and Modern times. Both nations compliment each other well.
  • Some German vehicles were swapped around to improve the transition between Soviet and West German vehicles. Other vehicles such as the Gepard were upgraded to the Gepard 1A2 which includes a Laser Rangefinder and FAPDS-T rounds, the KPz-70 moved to the Leopard line, the PUMA upgraded with Spike-missiles resulting in the PUMA S1, the Leopard 2PL moved to the research tree and replaced by the PT-91M Pendekar, and more.

Description and Inspirations :

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  • The Polish Military has a long and intricate history, dating back to the 10th century. Throughout the centuries, the Polish Military has undergone significant transformations, adapting to changing political, social, and technological environments. In the early years of Poland, the military was primarily composed of knights and noblemen who served in the cavalry. This tradition continued into the 16th and 17th centuries, when Poland became a major European power under the reign of King Sigismund III. During this period, the Polish Army was renowned for its skilled and heavily armored cavalry, known as the Winged Hussars.

    In the 18th century, Poland experienced a period of decline and political instability, leading to a series of partitions by neighboring powers. As a result, the Polish Army was disbanded and its soldiers were forced to serve in the armies of other nations. In the early 20th century, Poland regained its independence, and with it, a new military was formed. During World War I, Polish soldiers fought on multiple fronts, and after the war, the country's military underwent significant modernization, including the introduction of armored vehicles, aircraft, and machine guns. During World War II, Poland was invaded by Germany and the Soviet Union, leading to the formation of a resistance movement. Polish soldiers fought in multiple theaters of the war, including the Battle of Britain and the Normandy landings. After the war, the country's military was reorganized by the Soviet Union and the Polish People's Army was established as the country's primary military force. Following the collapse of communism in 1989, the Polish military underwent significant modernization and restructuring. The country joined NATO in 1999, and since then, the Polish military has played an active role in numerous international peacekeeping missions, including in Afghanistan and Iraq. Today, the Polish Armed Forces consist of the Polish Army, Polish Navy, Polish Air Force, and Special Forces. The military has undergone significant modernization and expansion in recent years, including the acquisition of advanced weaponry and equipment. In conclusion, the history of the Polish Military is a testament to the country's resilience and determination in the face of adversity. From its early days as a cavalry-based force to its modern-day role as a member of NATO, the Polish Military has evolved to meet the challenges of each era. With its highly trained soldiers and modern equipment, the Polish Military continues to play an important role in ensuring the security and stability of the country and the wider region. 

  • There are several other vehicles that are not a part of this sub-tree rendition. This isn't because I didn't think of adding them, it is because I just to provide a rough basis for the tree.
  • Inspiration(s):

    Hope to see a Polish Tech Ground Force, Air Force, and Coastal Water Tech Tree!

 

Editor's Comments/Reasoning:

  • My main reason for creating this tree is the same of my Republic of Korea Sub-tree which can be found below. It's to find a way to add these nations in the game IF Gaijin (not myself) deems the nations as not having a sufficient amount of vehicles to create an independent tree even though there's very well made community options for a Polish Independent Tree (or options like the very nicely made Visegrád Group Tree). I tried my best to provide additional alternatives in the case that these nations are put on the back burner even though they have their own significant capabilities and uniqueness. I'm a very strong proponent for not splitting individual nation's vehicles amongst many trees as that hurts those nation's players and want to offer the best experience I can for them if the option of a full tree does not work for developers. So please, feel free to criticize the sub-tree's so I can further enhance them for players needs and wants but don't hate because of political standpoint or related points, my focus is an apolitical standpoint similar to Gaijin . I made these trees in terms of trying to find the best place for them in the current in-game situation, especially since there's a Polish vehicle already in this tree. This does not mean these sub-trees cannot be applied to future nations that have not made it to the game yet. If you have additional options, feedback, or want to contact me personally for additional inquiry, feel free. Thanks!
  • All of my Sub-tree Suggestions:
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Polish Army Camouflage and Symbology

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These are the primary type of camouflage used by the Polish Army (w/ the exception of the new Leopard 2PL/PT-16/PT-17 Digital).

 

Different Emblems and Decals of the Polish Army

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Mechanized Brigade Emblem as well as the Polish Resistance Emblem found on a Rosomak.

 

 

 

Samochód pancerny wz. 34

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A reproduction Samochód pancerny wz. 34.

  • Description
    • The Samochód pancerny wz. 34 was a Polish armored vehicle designed and built in the 1930s. It was the main armored reconnaissance vehicle of the Polish Army prior to the outbreak of World War II. During the German invasion of Poland in 1939, the Samochód pancerny wz. 34 was used extensively by Polish armored units, particularly in reconnaissance and counterattack roles. However, the vehicle's light armor and armament made it vulnerable to German anti-tank weapons, and many were destroyed or captured by the enemy. The Samochód pancerny wz. 34 had a crew of four, including a driver, gunner, and two machine gunners. It also had a radio, which was a relatively new technology at the time and gave the vehicle a significant advantage in communication and coordination on the battlefield. The variant recommended for in-game use is the the vehicle armed with the 37mm wz. 18 gun.
 

7TP Light Tank

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7TP Light Tank on display.

 

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Knocked out 7TP.

 

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Gundlach Commander’s Reversible Periscope.

 

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1.)    37mm wz.37 gun.

2.)    7.92mm wz.30 HMG.

3.)    Wz. 37 CA Telescopic Sight

4.)    Wz. 37 CA Fixed Periscope

5.)    Gundlach Commander’s Reversible Periscope

 

  • Description
    • The 7TP was the Polish development of the British Vickers 6-ton Mark E. The 7TP, named for 7-Ton, Polish, was a light tank that served in the Polish Army until the end of the Invasion of Poland by the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. The 7TP was considered revolutionary due to its powerful diesel engine, commander’s reversible periscope, the 37mm anti-tank gun and radio equipment. It was considered Poland’s only tank during the war due to others being classified as tankettes.  108 single-turret models were ordered and used in-service at start of the war. It received further upgrades sometimes earning the name 9TP. 

 

 

TKS 20

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TKS 20 on display w/ foliage.

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TKS 20 side view.

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TKS 20 top view.

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Captured TKS 20 by German Forces, 1939.

  • Description
    • The TK, or tankette was a series of tankettes produced in Poland starting in 1931. When first introduced, they had good armor and a decent engine giving them high survivability. However, by the time the Invasion of Poland began, they were largely obsolete versus the several turreted, high speed Panzer I's, II's, III's, and IV's of the German Army. In 1937, the FK Rifle Factory in Warsaw built a new 20mm automatic cannon known as the model  A. This weapon would be accepted into service as the 20mm w.38. This cannon was used to rearm TKS tankettes to increase their armor penetration power. This model would be known as the TKS 20. The TKS 20 was a tank destroyer variant in-service with the Polish Army in mid-late 1939 and was used in the defense of Poland during the September campaign. However, there development came late as there was not enough to turn the tide of war. Only 3-5 were in-service by the time of the Invasion of Poland and complimented the 7TP and other TK variants.
    • There were accounts on September 18th, 1939 near Pociecha that a group of TKS 20's and there machine gun counterparts knocked out a patrol of 3 PzKpfw 35(t)'s without any losses.
  • Sources:
 

TKD

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An image of a TKD.

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4 experimental TKD tankettes.

 

  • Description
    • The TK, or tankette was a series of tankettes produced in Poland starting in 1931. When first introduced, they had good armor and a decent engine giving them high survivability. However, by the time the Invasion of Poland began, they were largely obsolete versus the several turreted, high speed Panzer I's, II's, III's, and IV's of the German Army. The TKD tank destroyer was a prototype armored vehicle developed from the TK tankette by Poland in the late 1930s, shortly before the outbreak of World War II. It was armed with a 47mm main gun, designed to counter the growing threat of German armored vehicles and tanks, which were becoming increasingly dominant on the battlefield. Only 4 were created with none of them left today.
  • Sources:

 

 

10TP Cruiser Tank

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10TP without its tracks.

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The 10TP's suspension.

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Artists rendition of the 10TP.

 

  • Description
    • Utilizing the American Christie Suspension, the Polish Military Institute of Engineering Research developed a new cruiser tank dubbed the 10TP. The 10TP is a cruiser tank that is armed with wz. 37 Bofors main gun and a 7.92 mm wz. 30 coaxial water-cooled machine gun in both the turret and hull. The Commander was equipped with a Reversible Telescope offering 360-degree viewing capabilities which was revolutionary during the pre-war industrial period. The Gunner was equipped with a standard telescopic sight. The vehicle remained in a prototype status at the time of the war began with only 1 prototype produced.
 

75mm Dion Bouton wz. 18/24

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An original image of the 75mm Dion Bouton wz. 18/24.

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An image of a series of 75mm Dion Bouton wz. 18/24 with there crew.

 

  • Description
    • 75mm Dion Bouton wz. 18/24 was a self-propelled gun that was based on a modified French truck chassis. The wz. 18/24 was used as a mobile artillery piece, providing fire support to Polish infantry units as well as a anti-aircraft vehicle. Its self-propelled design made it highly maneuverable on the battlefield, and it was able to quickly move to new firing positions to avoid enemy counterfire. During the Polish Defensive War of 1939, the wz. 18/24 saw extensive service in the Polish Army, particularly in the early stages of the conflict. However, like many of the country's military assets at the time, it was outmatched by the German Army's more advanced weaponry and tactics. They were used alongside PF621Ls.
 

MT-LB-23M Krak (Premium)

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Images of the MT-LB-23M Krak.

 

  • Description
    • The MT-LB-23M Krak prototype was developed by Huta Stalowa Wola, a Polish defense company, in the early 1990s. The company developed the vehicle by mounting a GSh-23L autocannon on top of the MT-LB vehicle.  The GSh-23L autocannon was developed in the Soviet Union and was widely used by the Soviet military and its allies. It is a highly effective weapon, capable of firing up to 3,400 rounds per minute and is used primarily as an aircraft cannon.  The MT-LB-23M Krak prototype was intended to serve as a multi-purpose weapon system, capable of providing fire support for infantry troops and engaging light armored vehicles and low-flying aircraft. However, the project was not pursued further due to a lack of funding and changing military requirements.  The MT-LB-23M Krak prototype is an example of how existing military vehicles can be modified and upgraded to meet changing operational requirements. The GSh-23L autocannon provided the vehicle with a significant increase in firepower and versatility, demonstrating the potential of the MT-LB platform for a range of weapon systems.

 

T-34-85M1

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  • Description
    • The T-34-85M1 was a Polish modification of the Soviet-made T-34-85 tank. It was developed in the early 1950s by the Military Institute of Armament Technology (WITU) in Poland.  The T-34-85M1 featured several modifications and upgrades compared to the standard T-34-85 tank. These included reducing the crew to 4 with 3 crewman and radio in turret, hull MG remotely operated by driver, increased ammunition storage, and a modernized propulsion and fuel system. The tank was also equipped with a new 85mm gun that featured a longer barrel, providing increased range and accuracy. The T-34-85M1 was used by the Polish Army during the Cold War.

 

 

T-34-85M2

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  • Description
    • The T-34-85M2 featured several improvements and upgrades compared to the T-34-85M1. These included a new diesel engine, and improved suspension, from the T-34-85M1 as well as extra stowage and a deep-wading kit and snorkel.  In addition to these upgrades, the T-34-85M2 was also equipped with a new night vision equipment that included an infrared sight system, allowing the tank to operate effectively in low-light conditions.

 

 

SU-100

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  • Description
    • The SU-100 was a Soviet-made tank destroyer that was developed during World War II and saw extensive service during the post-war period. The tank destroyer was based on the chassis of the T-34 tank and was armed with a powerful 100mm main gun.  After World War II, Poland received a number of Soviet-made tanks and tank destroyers, including the SU-100. The Polish Army used the SU-100  during the early Cold War period.

 

 

SKOT-2AM

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SKOT-2AM is an ATGM version of the SKOT-2A. Note the 9M14 launchers on the turret protected by armor plating.

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Side view of the SKOT-2AM. Notice the missing armor plating around the missiles.

Privately owned OT-64 SKOT w/ interior footage (disregard end of video..unless you’re into such graphics).

 

 

SKOT utilizing its amphibious capabilities.  

 

 

 

Hibernyt

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Hibernyt armed with a ZSU-23-2 anti-air gun.

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Hibernyt frontal view.

Hibernyt conducting live-fire demonstration.  

 

 

BWP-1M Puma

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A BWP-1M "Puma" during a live demonstration.  

 

  • Description
    • The BWP-1M Puma is a Polish infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) that was developed in the 1990s as a modernization of the Soviet-made BMP-1 IFV. The vehicle was designed and produced by the Polish defense company Bumar-Łabędy. The BWP-1M Puma features several upgrades and improvements compared to the BMP-1. These include a new diesel engine, improved suspension, and a new turret design that provides greater protection for the crew. Other upgrades to the vehicle's communication and command systems, as well as improvements to the vehicle's ergonomics and crew comfort. The vehicle has undergone several changes and has been tested with several turrets but has not been adopted.

  • Source(s ?

 

T-55AM “Merida”

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T-55AM “Merida” main battle tank. 

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WPL-1 "Bobrawa" Laser Warning System.

T-55AM Merida at the “SHIELD” display.

 

 

 

 

Rosomak-M1/Rosomak ZSSW-30 IFV’s

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Modified Rosomak (M1M) IFV for overseas deployment.

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A Rosomak ZSSW-30 with its Spike ATGM launcher in the deployed position.

 

Series of images of both vehicles:

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Rosomak-M1 conducting exercises.

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Modified OTO Melara HITFIST 30P Turret used on the Rosomak-M1.

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Rosomak w/ ZSSW-30 turret on display.

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GOD-1 Commander Panoramic Sight and GOC-1 Gunner Sight on the ZSSW-30 turret as well as manufacturer specifications.

Rosomak APC w/ ZSSW-30 turret test firing Spike ATGM. 

 

  • Description:
    • The KTO Rosomak is an APC developed from the Patria AMV in 2001. The Rosomak, meaning “Wolverine” went into serial production beginning in 2003. Variants include a Combat version (known as the Rosomak-M1 or M1M) equipped the Italian OTO Melara HITFIST 30P turret, featuring a 30mm Bushmaster Mk.2 Autocannon as well as indigenous upgrades such as the new 81mm Smoke Grenade Launchers, a transport version with multiple RWS capability known as the Rosomak-M2 and M3 models, the M120K Rak Mortar system and more. The Rosomak-M1 is the primary version, having 836 equipped for multiple mechanized brigades. In 2007, 24 Rosomak-M1’s were upgraded to the Rosomak-M1M standard in preparation for deployment to Afghanistan including additional steel/composite applique armor, Qinetiq RPGNet armor, Duke anti-IED system, and Blue Force Tracking BMS.
    • There is also a turret replacement with ZSSW-30 unmanned turret including 30mm Bushmaster Mk. II Autocannon, Coaxial 7.62mm UKM-2000C GPMG, 4x 81mm 902A ZM Dezamet Smoke Grenade Launchers, and a Spike-LR dual ATGM launcher. In March of 2013, developmental work began from Armament Inspectorate with a consortium of Huta Stalowa Wola SA (HSW) and WB Electronics SA and in 2019, tests were completed on a prototype turret. In 2020-2021, after delays due to COVID-19, test firings of the ZSSW-30 with Spike-LR launcher were successful with possible procurement in 2022-2023 post-qualification testing. Currently 1 prototype is available.
  • Notes:
    • It’s clear which variant of the KTO Rosomak IFV is better, however, I added both due to one in serial production and, the other is in testing and uses Spike ATGM’s which are currently taboo in-game due to the Fire and Forget capabilities.

 

 

 

BWP-2000 (Premium)

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View of the BWP-2000 with  T-60/70A turret from OTO Melara.

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Another view of the BWP-2000 with the 60mm main gun.

  • Description:
    • The BWP-2000 was a prototype IFV, and only a small number of vehicles were produced for testing and evaluation purposes. The vehicle was never put into mass production or adopted for service by the Polish Army. The BWP-2000 was developed in the early 2000s as a successor to the BWP-1, but its development was ultimately abandoned due to budgetary constraints. The vehicle was based on the chassis of the SUM Kalina minelaying vehicle and was designed to incorporate a range of modern features and upgrades, including advanced armor protection, a powerful 30mm autocannon, and a thermal imaging sight. Later on, testing occurred with the vehicle using a T-60/70A turret developed by OTO Melara armed with 60mm high-pressure gun. 

  • Source(s ?

 

Borsuk

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The Borsuk IFV armed with a 30mm Bushmaster MK44, coaxial 7.62mm, and Spike-LR missiles.

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The Borsuk IFV for the Polish Army.

  • Description
    • The Borsuk is a new Polish infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) currently under development by the Polish defense company OBRUM. The vehicle is intended to replace the aging Soviet-era BWP-1 IFVs currently in service with the Polish Army.  The Borsuk is being developed in two variants: the standard IFV and a command variant. The standard IFV is armed with a 30mm MK44 Bushmaster autocannon, a coaxial 7.62mm machine gun, and Spike anti-tank guided missiles. The command variant does not have an autocannon, but is equipped with additional communication and command systems.  The Borsuk features advanced armor protection, with additional armor plates and reinforced components providing increased protection against enemy fire and explosive devices. The vehicle is also equipped with a modular armor system that allows for quick and easy replacement of damaged armor plates, reducing downtime and maintenance costs.  The Borsuk is powered by a diesel engine and features advanced suspension, providing greater mobility and off-road capability. The vehicle also features a new fire control system that includes 3rd-generation thermal imaging sights, laser warning system, and an advanced battlefield management system.  The Borsuk has entered service with the Polish Army with 3 accepted at this time. and it is anticipated that the Borsuk will provide a significant improvement in the Polish Army's IFV capabilities.

 

Wilk 105 FSV

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Wilk 105 FSV on conducting trials.

 

Additional Imagery:

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Wilk 105 FSV breech system.

 

 

Wilk 105 FSV firing demonstration.

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Falarick 105 GLATGM.

  • Description
    • The Rosomak Wilk (or “Wolf”) FSV is a new Polish Fire Support Vehicle (FSV) based on the hull of a Patria AMV and equipped with the Cockerill CT-CV 105HP turret. Developed in the early 2010’s, the Wilk was designed to meet Polish requirements for new infantry support vehicles. The vehicle is capable of direct and in-direct fire support due to its +42 degree elevation. The Wilk is armed with a Cockerill 105mm Gun that’s fully stabilized, utilizes Hunter Killer capabilities, and can fire the Falarick 105 GLATGM.  The Wilk is currently not in-service with any nation and its unknown if the Polish Army will accept it.

 

  • Inspiration :

 

 

AMZ Bóbr-3 Tank Destroyer

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The AMZ Bóbr-3, a tank destroyer prototype for the Polish Army.

 

Additional Imagery:

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ATGM version of the Bóbr-3

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KenBIT SOL-2 LWS.

 

Video showing the AMZ Kutna Bóbr-3 with interior view and crew placements.

 

 

 

 

T-72M1R

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T-72M1R on display.

 

Images of the T-72M1R:

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Side view of the T-72M1R.

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KLW-1 Thermal Camera (and specifications) used by the Gunner.

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A T-72M1R utilized by Ukraine. These images are used because it shows the utilization of Kontact-1 ERA with and without the removal of the 81mm Smoke Launchers. 

 

 

 

PT-91 Twardy

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PT-91 Twardy of the 9th Armored Cavalry Brigade. Note the Obra-1 LWS cylinders on the turret cheeks and behind the smoke launchers.

 

Series of images:

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PT-91 Twardy on parade

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SCC-1 Obra-1 LWS used on the PT-91 Twardy.

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KLW-1 Thermal Camera (and specifications) used by the Gunner.

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ERWA-2 Armor layout. Note the last picture is ERWA-2 hit with 120mm DM33 APFSDS-T without penetration.

 

 

 

PT-91M Pendekar (Squadron)

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A PT-91M Pendekar on display.

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Comparison of the PT-91 Twardy and the Malaysian version, the PT-91M Pendekar.

 

Żubr P/SPZR Poprad

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Żubr P’s in maneuvering exercises.

 

Additional Imagery:

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Poprad SHORAD stored in the hull of the Żubr P.

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Poprad KTVD-1M optical system closeup.

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KTVD-1M Camera specifications.

Video showing Poprad Air Defense System capabilities. Note: Launcher can be stored in rear of vehicle.

 

 

 

ZSU-23-4MP Biała

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ZSU-23-4MP Biała on display.

 

Additional Imagery:

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View of the Optoelectronic FCS sight.

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ZSU-23-4MP Biała firing a GROM missile. 

ZSU-23-4MP Biała on display.

 

ZSU-23-4MP Biała conducting live-fire exercises.

 

 

 

 

PT-91M2A1

Spoiler

 

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PT-91M2A1 Twardy with Elbit Systems Remote Control Weapon Station.

 

A series of images:

Spoiler

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PT-91M2A1 on display with thermal displays linked to the main cameras.

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Closeup of the Elbit Systems RCWS mounted in the PT-91M2A1.

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Front view with touch displays showing camera positions.

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Rear of the PT-91M2A1 with Cage Armor.

 

Video covering the PT-91M2A1 (as well as other vehicles).

 

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SSP-1 OBRA-3 Laser Warning System

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125mm APFSDS-T "Ryś" round characteristics. 

 

PT-91M2A2

Spoiler

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PT-91M2A2 Twardy with Commander’s PASEO Sight attached. Note the 12.7mm NVST is removed from above the Commander.

 

Additional Imagery:

Spoiler

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Front view of the PT-91M2A2 on display. Note the SAVAN-15 Gunner Sight, SOD-1, OBRA-3 LWS (behind smoke launchers as well), ERAWA-2, and more.

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Rear view of the PT-91M2A2 on display. Note the slat armor covering areas not covered in ERA as well as SOD-1 and Obra-3 LWS.

Video covering the PT-91M2A2 (as well as missing PASEO Commander Sight) capabilities (as well as other vehicles).

 

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PASEO Commander Sight.

 

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SSP-1 OBRA-3 Laser Warning System.

 

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SOD-1 Atena 360 degree thermal coverage optics.

 

 

 

Ottokar-Brzoza TD

Spoiler

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An Ottokar-Brzoza tank destroyer concept unveiled in 2019, this variant is based off of the BWP-1, or also known as BMP-1 and utilizes a RCWS for point-defense.

Poland_tank_destroyer_1_.jpg

Another concept that utilizes the Borsuk IFV chassis both of which fire the Brimestone missiles.

  • Description
    • The Ottokar-Brzoza program is a joint venture between Poland and the United Kingdom, and it is named after two famous military commanders from Poland and the UK. The goal of the program is to develop a highly mobile and versatile tank destroyer that can provide direct fire support to infantry units and engage enemy armor at long ranges. The primary focus of the program is introducing the Brimestone missile developed by the United Kingdom, itself a further development of the American Maverick missile, into a Polish-developed chassis. The tank destroyer will also be equipped with advanced systems, including a laser rangefinder and a thermal imaging system, which will allow the crew to engage targets at long ranges and in low-light conditions. The vehicle is expected to have a crew of three, including a driver, a gunner, and a commander.

  • Additional Notes:
    • The BWP-1 concept would be best used at this time due to the fact it has a RCWS offering a similar playstyle to the Strike TD in-game. All other variants lack optical systems at all.
  • Source(s):
 

WPB Anders FSV

Spoiler

FR0rHMSXIAEiSt9?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

  • Description
    • The WPB Anders FSV (Fire Support Vehicle) is indeed a light tank that was developed by Poland's OBRUM in cooperation with the Swedish company BAE Systems. The tank is named after General Władysław Anders, who commanded the Polish II Corps during World War II. The WPB Anders FSV is equipped with a 120mm smoothbore gun, which is capable of firing a variety of ammunition types, including armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) rounds and high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds. The gun is also equipped with an autoloader, which allows for faster and more efficient reloading. The tank is designed to provide direct fire support to infantry units, and is highly versatile and mobile, making it effective in a variety of combat situations. It is also equipped with a new fire control system and a thermal imaging system, which provide improved targeting capabilities and situational awareness. The WPB Anders FSV is built on a modified chassis of the Swedish CV90 armored vehicle, and is equipped with advanced suspension and steering systems that provide improved mobility and maneuverability. The tank has a crew of three, including a driver, a gunner, and a commander. Overall, the WPB Anders FSV represents a significant improvement over Poland's existing armored vehicles, with advanced systems and increased capabilities that make it a formidable weapon on the battlefield. The tank is designed to meet the requirements of Poland's armed forces, as well as potential export markets, and could play an important role in the defense industry in the coming years.

  • Source(s):
 

PT-16

Spoiler

IMG_0006.jpg

The PT-16 main battle tank prototype.

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SSP-1 OBRA-3 Laser Warning System.

  • Description
    • The PT-16 is a modernized version of the Soviet-made T-72 main battle tank that was developed as a joint venture between Poland's OBRUM and Ukraine's Ukroboronprom. The tank features several upgrades over the original T-72, including a new engine, improved armor, and a modernized fire control system. One of the most significant upgrades of the PT-16 is its new engine. The tank is equipped with a 1,000 horsepower engine that provides increased power and improved mobility compared to the original T-72. This allows the PT-16 to operate more effectively in a variety of terrain and combat situations. In addition to its new engine, the PT-16 features improved armor that provides increased protection against a variety of threats, including anti-tank missiles and small arms fire. The tank's turret has been modernized with advanced armor as well as a new fire control system that improves the tank's accuracy and targeting capabilities. The PT-16 is also equipped with a new thermal imaging system that provides improved visibility in low-light conditions, as well as an advanced ammunition loading system that allows for faster and more efficient reloading of the tank's main gun.

      The PT-16 has a crew of three, including a driver, a gunner, and a commander. The tank's main armament is a 125mm smoothbore gun that is capable of firing a variety of ammunition types, including armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) rounds and high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds. Overall, the PT-16 represents a significant improvement over the original T-72 tank, with modernized systems and increased capabilities that make it a formidable weapon on the battlefield. While it was developed primarily for use by the Polish and Ukrainian militaries, the PT-16 could potentially be sold to other countries in the future, further strengthening its role as an important asset in the defense industry.

  • Source(s):
 

PT-17

Spoiler

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The PT-17 prototype on display.

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GOD-1 Commander Panoramic Sight and GOC-1 Gunner Sight utilized on the PT-17.

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SSP-1 OBRA-3 Laser Warning System.

 

  • Description
    • The PT-17 is a new main battle tank that was developed by Poland's OBRUM in cooperation with Ukraine's Ukroboronprom. The tank is based on the PT-16 chassis, but features a completely new turret and gun system that make it a significant improvement over its predecessor. One of the most notable features of the PT-17 is its new 120mm smoothbore gun. This gun is more powerful than the 125mm gun on the PT-16, and is capable of firing a wider variety of ammunition types, including armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) rounds, high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds, and high-explosive squash head (HESH) rounds. The gun also has a range of advanced fire control systems that make it more accurate and effective on the battlefield. The PT-17's turret has also been completely redesigned, with advanced armor and a new fire control system that improves the tank's situational awareness and targeting capabilities. The tank is also equipped with a new engine and suspension system that provide improved mobility and maneuverability. In addition to its advanced systems, the PT-17 also features a number of other upgrades that make it more effective on the battlefield. The tank is equipped with a new thermal imaging system that provides improved visibility in low-light conditions, as well as an advanced ammunition loading system that allows for faster and more efficient reloading of the tank's main gun. The PT-17 has a crew of three, including a driver, a gunner, and a commander. The tank is designed to provide direct fire support to infantry units, and is highly versatile and mobile, making it effective in a variety of combat situations. Overall, the PT-17 represents a significant improvement over the PT-16, with advanced systems and increased capabilities that make it a formidable weapon on the battlefield. While it was developed primarily for use by the Polish and Ukrainian militaries, the PT-17 could potentially be sold to other countries in the future, further strengthening its role as an important asset in the defense industry.

  • Source(s):
 

Leopard 2A5PL M1

Spoiler

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Leopard 2A5PL M1 on display. Note the RWS on the top of the turret.

 

Leopard 2PL (M1)

Spoiler

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Leopard 2PL conducting exercises.

 

WIP/Other Vehicles

Disclaimer : A work in progress list of vehicles that could be added.

 

Spoiler

List of vehicles either WIP or notable:

  • TK-SD
  • 7TP Reinforced
  • GAZ-69M
  • 14TP (One prototype produced, need more information.)
  • T-54 (S-2)
  • T-54AM1
  • T-54AM2
  • 9P133 Malyutka
  • BWR-1S
  • BWP-2000 Prototype
  • BWP-40 Prototype (Premium/Event)
    • BWP Prototype Variants
  • BWP-1 (2021 Modernization)
  • BWP-2
  • 2S1T Gvozdika
  • T-72M1
  • Hibneryt Variants
  • AHS Krab
  • 9K33 Osa Variants
  • PL-01 Prototype (Possible TT or Premium)
  • WPB Anders Prototype Variants 
  • PZA Loara
  • Leopard 2A4
  • Leopard 2A5
  • Leopard 2PLM
  • M1A2 SEPv3
  • K2PL Black Panther
 

Wilk 120 FSV

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A Rosomak 120 MGS variant, equipped with the Hitfact 120 turret.

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A Rosomak 120 MGS variant, equipped with the Cockerill XC-8 turret, a future potential vehicle for the Polish Army.

 

 

Thanks for viewing!

 

Edited by Yontzee
New updates inbound.
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Note, this tree is created as a backup in-case Gaijin does not implement an Independent Polish tree. 

Edited by Yontzee
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  • Suggestion Moderator

Open for Discussion :)

  • Thanks 1

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2 minutes ago, Thatz said:

Open for Discussion :)

Thanks! :salute:

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On 08/09/2021 at 16:56, Yontzee said:

Secondary: 2x AT-3 Sagger (9M14 Malutka) ATGM Launchers (w/ 8 missiles in reserve in exchange of passenger seating)

Where did you find information about the 8 shells in reserve? All the sources I know say about 4 shells in the magazine and 2 on the launchers.

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4 minutes ago, AftiksPL said:

Where did you find information about the 8 shells in reserve? All the sources I know say about 4 shells in the magazine and 2 on the launchers.

Unfortunately it was just blogs and is the only one I had to use them for. Do you have the sources? If so can you comment them? I'll be happy to change it. The SKOT-2AM is a very difficult vehicle to find information on and is the one vehicle I had the most trouble. 

Edited by Yontzee
Grammar.

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3 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Unfortunately it was just blogs. Do you have the sources? If so can you comment them. The SKOT-2AM is a very difficult vehicle to find information on and is the one vehicle I had the most trouble. 

 

Unfortunately, the description is in Polish, but with the help of an translator, you should be able to understand all. All the detailed information and technical description of all OT-64 / SKOT versions are there.

http://opisybroni.pl/ot-64-skot/

 

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16 minutes ago, AftiksPL said:

 

Unfortunately, the description is in Polish, but with the help of an translator, you should be able to understand all. All the detailed information and technical description of all OT-64 / SKOT versions are there.

http://opisybroni.pl/ot-64-skot/

 

Correction. I had this source, but I must've overlooked that note. Thanks for the catch! 

Edited by Yontzee

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And a few additional vehicles that can be an interesting addition:

 

TK-SD, a tank destroyer based on C2P chassis, two prototypes were built that took part in the fighting.

 

Gaz-69M with the B-10 recoilless gun, used by the Polish 6th Airborne Brigade.

 

T-34-85M2, Polish modification of the T-34, crew reduced to 4 members, modern ammunition, night vision and some smaller improvements.

 

T-54 Product S-2, the Polish production of T-54 with mounted additional covers on the hull and around the turret.

 

Several prototypes based on the BMP-1 and MT-LB: BWP-95, BWP-40, BWO-40, MT-LB Turkus, Sopel, Stalagmite.

 

More details and photos will be in a separate comment.

Edited by AftiksPL
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9 minutes ago, AftiksPL said:

And a few additional vehicles that can be an interesting addition:

 

TK-SD, a tank destroyer based on C2P chassis, two prototypes were built that took part in the fighting.

 

Gaz-69M with the B-10 recoilless gun, used by the Polish 6th Airborne Brigade.

 

T-34-85M2, Polish modification of the T-34, crew reduced to 4 members, modern ammunition, night vision and some smaller improvements.

 

T-54 Product S-2, the Polish production of T-54 with mounted additional covers on the hull and around the tower.

 

Several prototypes based on the BMP-1 and MT-LB: BWP-95, BWP-40, BWO-40, MT-LB Turkus, Sopel, Stalagmite.

 

More details and photos will be in a separate comment.

Sounds good, there are gaps in the early ranks. Thanks mate!

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I feel you're going to find very little support among the polish community for this particular endeavour. Mixing the polish with ze germans is not a good look.

A side branch to the french (a number of early french tanks were bought to bolster the polish forces, most of the polish aviators served in the french air force before the fall of France, Wicher class were essentially Burrasques, there's a lot of low-tier commonality, plus the french are currently underdeveloped compared to other choices) or the brits, for obvious reasons.

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16 minutes ago, GrumpyStranger said:

I feel you're going to find very little support among the polish community for this particular endeavour. Mixing the polish with ze germans is not a good look.

A side branch to the french (a number of early french tanks were bought to bolster the polish forces, most of the polish aviators served in the french air force before the fall of France, Wicher class were essentially Burrasques, there's a lot of low-tier commonality, plus the french are currently underdeveloped compared to other choices) or the brits, for obvious reasons.

I agree for the most part, but I was trying to look at this from a non-political standpoint due to the fact there is so much influence from Germany. From a political standpoint, today they're close, NATO, and European Union allies but there are several difficulties and some severe from the past. From a non-political perspective, they fit really well with the Leopard 2PL, Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A4, BMP-1, already in-game (they could get Polish camouflages), Future Soviet vehicles both nations used, etc. and many others but from a political perspective, its a little more difficult for obvious reasons. I was looking at other nations to implement this but going into the modern section of the tree having both a German influenced tank like the Leopard 2PL or the Soviet influenced PT-91 in any other tree didn't fit so well. The only reason this works is that that Gaijin has plans to implement (parts of) an Eastern Germany Tree. This Tree was just another way to gather support to have Poland implemented in some way or form in the game if a full tree doesn't materialize. Besides giving Poland it's own tree, or attaching it to Germany as a sub-tree, I don't know where else it could go besides breaking it up into other trees which I know a lot of people don't want (neither do I).

Edited by Yontzee
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25 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

from a non-political standpoint

Therein lies the problem. You're assuming that the average polish player can detach oneself from the usual patriotic fervour to see the benefit of having the tree in this form. 

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On 13/09/2021 at 04:54, GrumpyStranger said:

Therein lies the problem. You're assuming that the average polish player can detach oneself from the usual patriotic fervour to see the benefit of having the tree in this form. 

Changed the title so it can be implemented to any tree. Thanks for the opinion!

 

Just for the record, Gaijin is apolitical and you already have the Leopard 2PL in the German tree. There’s a lot of hate towards this tree because it isn’t exactly what “people want”. A lot of research has went into this tree and I made it as an alternative so we have options for Poland’s implementation. Valid argument is one thing but crapping on the tree with nothing else to say isn’t worth anyone’s time. Offer constructive criticism in a respective manner or take it somewhere else.:dntknw:

Edited by Yontzee

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  • Yontzee changed the title to Polish Ground Forces Sub-tree - Mazurek Dąbrowskiego

I want to see Poland in War Thunder, but not like this. I'd rather them have a full tree. Something that truly shows how vast Poland's endeavors are.

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Consider addition of polish production tanks:

T-34-85 M1 - crew reduced to 4 with 3 crewman and radio in turret, hull MG remotely operated by driver, increased ammunition storage and a modernized propulsion and fuel system

T-34-85 M2 - additionally adapted for deep water wading, had a night vision equipment for commander and driver 

T-54A prototype with anti HEAT armor - so called Product S-2, with additional front and turret armor meant for defense against HEAT shells,

T-54AM1 - adapted for deep water wading, increased amount of artillery ammunition and a modernized propulsion and fuel system.

T-54AM2 - later designated T-55U, had two planes gun stabilization, increased amount of artillery ammunition, new W-55 engine, hydraulic power steering and TAD smoke generator.

 

The T-34, T-54 and T-55 produced in Poland were intended not only for the needs of the Polish army. A large part of them was intended for export, not only to the Warsaw Pact countries, but also to friendly countries, especially from the Middle East. The vehicles produced in Poland enjoyed a very good reputation and were rated higher than tanks of the same type produced in the USSR.

Edited by RazNaRok
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7 hours ago, RazNaRok said:

Consider addition of polish production tanks:

T-34-85 M1 - crew reduced to 4 with 3 crewman and radio in turret, hull MG remotely operated by driver, increased ammunition storage and a modernized propulsion and fuel system

T-34-85 M2 - additionally adopted for deep water wading, had a night vision equipment for commander and driver 

T-54A prototype with anti HEAT armor - so called Product S-2, with additional front and turret armor meant for defense against HEAT shells,

T-54AM1 - adapted for deep water wading, increased amount of artillery ammunition and a modernized propulsion and fuel system.

T-54AM2 - later designated T-55U, had two planes gun stabilization, increased amount of artillery ammunition, new W-55 engine, hydraulic power steering and TAD smoke generator.

 

The T-34, T-54 and T-55 produced in Poland were intended not only for the needs of the Polish army. A large part of them was intended for export, not only to the Warsaw Pact countries, but also to friendly countries, especially from the Middle East. The vehicles produced in Poland enjoyed a very good reputation and were rated higher than tanks of the same type produced in the USSR.

Awesome! It’s gonna be some time but I’ll include these into the post. I’ve got a gap in the tree where those could fill. Thanks! 

Edited by Yontzee

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You can keep the 7TP reinforced (the prototype by BBTBrPanc), although there are no photos of build prototypes.

Survived only comparative sketches and some technical documentation of both prototypes, with some "artistic creativity" those could be enough to create reliable reconstruction and game models.

 

However as those were only two purposefully build prototypes and third comparison vehicle build from non finished C7P tractor, those can be consider only as candidate for a premium vehicle.

 

Az6hVU1.png

 

 

9TP - an unofficial name for the improved 7TP tank , ordered by the Polish Ministry of National Defense in 29th June 1939 and planned to be produced since autumn 1939.

 

It is also known as  7TP wzmocniony (7-tonne Polish, reinforced) and  7TP wz. 1939 (7-tonne, Polish, mod. 1939) , after the names of two prototypes.

Certain non reliable sources claim that 7TP wz. 1939 version entered mass production in September 1939.

 

Protracted designing-construction works of Polish tank prototypes and the lack of ability to furnish army with modern equipment from abroad gave the foundation for a huge 7TP development in 1938. This programme was mainly aimed at increasing tank’s military value throughout strengthening its armour and (due to envisaged weight increase) using much more reliable powertrain which was supposed to maintain good manoeuvrability and traction performance. In the mid-1930’s, a large experience had been collected, and significant achievements in the field of producing armour plates were reported. Employees of Laboratorium Mechaniczno-Chemiczne BBT Br. Panc. (Mechanical-Chemical Laboratory of Armoured Weapons Technical Research Bureau) in cooperation with Komisja Badania Blach i Płyt Pancernych Instytutu Metalurgii i Metaloznawstwa (Commission for Research of Armour Plates and Sheet Metals from the Institute of Metallurgy and Metal Science) and metallurgical industry representatives had carried a lot of arduous studies followed by endurance tests of homogeneous and cemented (case-hardened) armour. Owing to the fact that Polish industry had short tradition in manufacturing modern plates, such issue was considered as a top priority. These researches led to work out and master mass production of 3-50 mm thick homogeneous armour plates, and also 8-20 mm thick cemented ones.

 

What was crucial for tanks’ mass production was that metallurgical achievements had made it possible to devise new methods of welding such huge components as hull. In 1937, on the basis of tests results, Maj. Eng. Tadeusz Biemacki, the manager of metallurgy department in Labolatorium BBT Br. Panc., designed and accomplished 7TP’s experimental hull, made of 5-17 mm thick welded armour plates. It weighted around 1700 kilograms — significantly less than hulls built with the previous method, i.e. through superposing plates on a grit formed frame, and, later on, merging them by rivets or screws.

 

Furthermore, some steps forward in the field of combustion engines had been made. In 1936, the engineers from BS PzInż (Studies Bureau of the State Engineering Works) — Jan Werner, Jerzy Dowkontt, Wacław Cywiński — created prototype power plants of own design, including the PzInż. 705 carburetor engine (indicated for a new family of lorries), and its derivative modification: the PzInż. 725 (more powerful, designed for heavy goods tracked vehicles). Data sheet of PzInż. 725: 345 kg, 6-cylinder inline vertical, cylinder bore x stroke: 100 x 110 mm, capacity: 5180 cm³, 95 HP at 2800 rpm, compression ratio: 6.35.

 

By 1939, several prototypes of this engine had been built; although they were factory-tested, it was impossible to gain some experience from long term exploitation. Accordingly, at the beginning of 1938, the State Engineering Works received the brand new Saurer CT1D diesel engine, and its bulk production was about to be launched under the designation PzInż. 155. Data sheet of PzInż. 155: 600 kg, 6-cylinder inline vertical, cylinder bore x stroke: 100 x 110 mm, capacity: 7980 cm³, 100 HP at 1800 rpm, compression ratio: 16. The Saurer Company provided complete documentation and several model engines.  The production start-up was foreseen for 1939.

 

In April 1938, the Armoured Weapons Command ordered in the State Engineering Works a prototype 7TP tank with such power plant. One month later, it was finally built and delivered to Armoured Weapons Technical Research Bureau (the sample was probably made of iron plate).  The tested vehicle (loaded with extra weight in order to simulate heavier armour) was considered as better than the one with PzInż. 725 engine. Its only disadvantage was that the newer motor showed less abilities to overcome rough terrain capabilities, which were caused by weight increase, while keeping the same chassis.

 

The proposals for further 7TP modernization were presented in two projects:                                                            

– the first, proposed by Armoured Weapons Technical Research Bureau (7TP reinforced): this modification provided newly developed Polish PzInż. 725 petrol engine (95 HP), which was smaller than the diesel one, and welded hull, of a lower profile, with a slanted front plate of the combat compartment. The brand new power plant was mounted on a right side of engine compartment (a drive shaft was also moved to right side, so it would be less an obstacle for the turret's crew). What is more, the cooling system had been significantly changed: its cooling grates were removed from an engine deck, and replaced with slots in sides. The motor's mass had an influence on reducing overall tank weight. All these qualities weighted in favour of PzInż. 725. On the other hand, the use of petrol increased the risk of fire, and tank would be ignited by direct hit. The armour, while maintaining the 7TP's weight and traction performance, was to be up to 30 mm in front and rear (vertical plates), 25 mm on a front slanted plate and the driver's hatch, and 20 mm on sides and turret. The driver was to be equipped with two G wz. 34 reversible periscopes. 

 

– the second, proposed by Studies Bureau of the State Engineering Works, worked by Edward Habich (7TP mod. 1939): in this variant, the PzInż. 155 engine was used. The tank hull shape was slightly different, in comparison with the 7TP; only armour thickness increased from 17 mm to 40 mm in hull front, from 17, 13 and 9 mm to 25, 20 and 13 mm respectively in sides, and from 15 to 20 mm in turret's sides and to 40 mm in turret's front. Weight also increased to 10 594 kg, so strengthened suspension (320 mm wider tracks, road wheels with replaceable rubber), and C7P tractor's transmission were proposed.

 

Both project were submitted for consideration in May 1939. Despite the fact that the State Engineering Works draw heavy criticism from Col. Patryk O'Brien de Lacy (the head of AWTRS), its solutions gained Armoured Weapons Command's approval. Two prototype light tanks named 7TP mod. 1939 were ordered. In July, these vehicles (with some different adjustments — the one had standard transmission, the other adopted from C7P tractor) were finally built and received by Military Technical Inspection. Since 28 July, in the Kampinos Forest, tanks had been investigated and subjected to comparative trials with the third vehicle (it was to be experimental 7TP with CT1D engine, or another prototype tank called PzInż. 725).

 

During the first drives, the prototype with C7P's transmission obtained the best results and performance, so it was supposed to be launched in mass production. Unfortunately, the outbreak of the Second World War foiled these plans.

 

At the beginning of September, two or three experimental 7TPs mod. 1939, along with several different prototypes, were assembled in the WD BBT Br. Panc. (the Experimental Workshop of AWTRS), and in the SEW in Ursus (former Czechowice) near Warsaw. There is no information whether they were evacuated or stranded (damaged or concealed).

 

The genesis of 7TP reinforced/ 7TP mod. 1939:                                                                                                                  

 

– 1932:                                                                                                                                                                                  

The beginning of designing a homegrown light tank based on Vickers tank; it had been marked as VAU-33 (Vickers-Armstrong-Ursus).

 

– 1933:

Agreement between AWTRS and the SEW for ordering in the SEW two made of steel prototype tanks, according to the VAU-33 project.

 

– 1934:

August — completion of an early transitional model in line with VAU-33 project; it was implied as PzInż. 120 (7TP twin-turret), carried no. 1595, and a nickname Smok (Dragon). Intensive trials and comparisons between PzInż. 120 and Vickers tank.

 

- 1935

August – second iron prototype, reg. No. 1596, according to VAU-33 Słoń (Elephant) design is completed.  The tank was handed to CW in Modlin and then to 3 Bat.Panc. in Warsaw for training purposes. During the year many improvements were introduced to the Smok, which, as prototype, was still at a disposal to BBT Br. Panc.

 

- 1937

January – Bofors turret was mounted at the iron Smok. The procedure was conducted in Warsztaty Doświadczalne BBTech. Br. Panc. The vehicle was given designation PZInż 220 as a single-turreted version of the 7TP tank. Basing on earlier experiments,  mjr inż. Tadeusz Biernacki, director of the metallurgy division of the Laboratorium BBT Br. Panc., designed and manufactured prototype hull for the 7TP tank. It was made from steel plates with thickness from 5 to 17 mm welded together and weighted 1700 kg. 

 

- 1938

April

The DBrPanc. ordered prototype 7TP tank with experimental Saurer CT1D/PZInż 155 engine from the PZInż.

 

May

Circa 25.05.1938 the 7TP prototype (reg. no. 1766) with the CT1D was handed to  BBT Br. Panc by PZInż for testing purposes. The tank had additional ballast attached in order to simulate the weight of the thicker armour. The tests were conducted in autumn of 1938 in Kompania Ćwiczebna Centrum Wyszkolenia Br. Panc. The tank number 1766 traversed 548 km during tests, the engine worked for 29 hours and 55 minutes. The CT1D was considered better than VBLDb, but the offroad capabilities were worse as the current chassis was kept.

 

- 1939

March

18.02.1939 or 21.03.1939 – the protocol from the tests of the prototype 7TP PZInż with the engine CT1D was written and the tank was rated well. The tank without mock-up ballast imitating the strengthened armour was 210 kg lighter than standard 7TP. The decision regarding further development — altering the design of the vehicle and adding additional armour — was made. Two parallel projects were started: BBTech Br. Panc and PZInz.

 

April/May

Presentation and evaluation of two projects (not final vehicles!) of the 7TP reinforced/9TP was conducted. Despite the criticism of design choices proposed by the PZInż by the BBTech Br. Panc., the commission of Dowództwo Br. Panc.approved the vehicle proposed by the PZInż.

As result, two prototype vehicles were ordered from the PZInż, called 7TP wzór 1939. The changes were to be introduced on two 7TP tanks being in on-going production, perhaps immediately with full-featured armour plates (as proposed by the BBTec Br. Panc). The BBTech Br. Panc made a single vehicle according to their own project using  iron plates based on the parts belonging to the first model 7TP tank (most probably the iron Smok still in possession of the WD BBTech Br. Panc.).

 

July

28/31.07.1939 and 03.08.1939 - the tanks were given for acceptance and tests to the military.

Vehicle no. 1 adhered to the proposal by the PZInż but was equipped with standard gearbox from 7TP. The PZInż vehicle no. 2 fully adhered to the PZInż proposal from May/April 1938, as it employed gearbox from C7P. The third vehicle was presumably the experimental 7TP with the CT1D/PZInż 725 engine. The best results were achieved by the PZInż no. 2 vehicle (with C7P gearbox) and this tank was to be made into series production.. 

The evaluation of vehicles from the PZInż and single one from the BBTech Br. Panc were conducted in the  Puszcza Kampinoska (Kampinoska Forest).

 

21.08.1939 

The paper regarding tests and improvements made in the PZInż no. 2 vehicle (C7P gearbox) was made.

Adjustments:

- moving the periscope/sight 80 mm forward,

- window of gunner’s left-side turret periscope raised 80 mm,

- direction scale added to the commander’s observation periscope,

- more efficient turret rotation drive was introduced (as the turret was heavier),

- studies regarding the improvements of ammunition were outlined,

- the lack of possibility of adding driver’s machine gun due to the mantlet was stated,

 

August/October

After capturing Warsaw, both prototypes were probably taken by Germans or hidden/destroyed by the Ursus employees.

According to the photographies, at least part of the PZInż prototypes stayed in Ursus (vide known photos of the PZInż 130). It would explain why the Germans could capture two vehicles. 

Was the third prototype (BBTech) evacuated?

 

 

Some sources state that 11 so called 9TP tanks did take part in fights - defending Warsaw, that's no true...
As was already cleared... there are photos clearly showing taht at least part of PZInż prototypes have remained in Ursus, being captured there by Germans.
 
Fate of these machines remains uncertain till present day. The prototypes were either captured by Germans after taking Warsaw or destroyed by Ursus’ workers.
Third prototype 7TP (reference, build from unfinished C7P of last production bath) was evacuated and probably cannibalised for field repairs of other vehicle's. 
There are no sources that could unequivocally confirm accounts of 11 9TP tanks having been produced and used during defense of Warsaw.
 
People claiming that 7TP reinforced and / or 7TP wz.39 were used in combat are often referring to the following publications:
 
- A. Jońca, J. Szubański, R. Tarczyński: Wrzesień 1939. Pojazdy Wojska Polskiego. Barwa i broń., Warszawa: Wydawnictwa Komunikacji i Łączności, 1990, str. 32, 52-58,
- A. Wszendyrówny, M. Wodejko: Czołg 7TP w dokumentach Centralnego Archiwum Wojskowego, w: "Do Broni", nr 1/2009, s. 96.
 
The following statements might be found there: 
2nd Light Tank Company of Warsaw Defence Command (...) Equipment: 11 7TP tanks (from PZInż current production) (p.32)
In September, about a dozen (11?) 7TPs rolled out of factory’s current production. (p.52)
The prototype (...) was constructed in 1938 and at the beginning of 1939 tests were ended. As the consequence, contracts for delivery of new armor plates were signed. Therefore, it is reasonable to suspect, that the tanks delivered for the army in 1939 had new armour scheme.
 
As we can see, instead of explicit confirmation, only suspicions are found, and 11 tanks mentioned in excerpts above were probably part of last 7TP production series based on C7P tractors.

 

 

7TP reinforced, BBT Br Panc factory prototype, shown at 20.04.1939
- welded armor with thickness in range 8-30 mm, evenly laid, mass similar to the series 7TP, about 9858 kg with the service, sides of the vehicle made from two plates,
- original 7TP suspension,
- the difference of axial loading limited to 68 kg from 785 kg in standard 7TP,
- ultimately carburetor engine (powered by petrol) PZINż 725 with power of  95-100 HP (maximal about 105 HP), weight 370 kg, requires single radiator. Standard Saurer VBLDb weighted 850 kg and required two radiators. The engine was located near the side of the hull, behind the driver. The engine was not series produced yet,
- the Cardan shaft (without joints) was altered and moved to the side of the vehicle, eliminating the obstacle that hindered the ability of crew to work inside of the tanks,
- standard gearbox (aluminum casing),
- 130 mm (to 1988 mm) lower profile of the tank due to smaller engine, 
- favorable silhouette (skewed frontal plate, different rear etc.),
- more space inside, increased crew comfort,
- two wz. 34 periscopes for driver and commander,
- thicker rubber layer on the road wheels,
- intended speed of 32-34 km/h (on road?),
- removal of all air circulation shutters, introducing solution as in  „Skoda”/”Koblen Danek” tanks.
 
8njL5Q6.png
 
 
7TP wz.39, prototype made by PZInż (E. Habich) shown at 05.04.1939.
Features:
Welded lower armor plate with thickness of 5 to 40 mm., uneven thickness: 40 mm in front, 25, 20 and 13 mm on sides, 40 mm turret front, 20mm turret back and sides, rear and upper armor without changes in relation to initial design of 7TP tank, 
- PZInż 155/CT1D engine — license model produced by PZInż since early 1938.
- Gearbox adopted from C7P tractor (aluminium casing),
- Increase in weight to ca. 11 tons (different sources claim increase of 729 or 800 kgs compared to standard version).
- Reworked suspension, track width 320 mm (standard version — 267 mm)
- Slightly changed outline (three additional plates of side armor?)
- Road wheels covered with rubber,
- substantially increased pressure of front wheels.
- Increased mass may result in engine overheating issues (radiators in standard version were working at maximal power).
- Speed up to 26,6 km/h on the road and 11,5 km/h off-road (tested in Kampinos village).
 
PcbRUuT.png

 

 

Prototypes comparison:
Blue — 7TP reinforced, according to BBT Br Panc shown at 20.04.1939.
Red — 7TP wz.39, according to Biuro Studiów PZInż (E.Habich) shown at 05.04.1939.

 

1eYlKwv.jpg

 

MCjePn2.jpg aOMPCHZ.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by RazNaRok

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On 08/09/2021 at 16:56, Palajin96 said:

Hibernyt

Hibernyt armed with a ZSU-23-2 anti-air gun.

 

Hibernyt frontal view.

 

 

Unfortunately due to the fact, that in the game so far there are no two-piece weapon systems , "Hibernyt" is quite controversial.

Edited by RazNaRok

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actually this would be good, +1

 

i love ZSU AA truck... it reminds me toyota ZSU AA

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On 16/09/2021 at 18:15, RazNaRok said:

You can keep the 7TP reinforced (the prototype by BBTBrPanc), although there are no photos of build prototypes.

Survived only comparative sketches and some technical documentation of both prototypes, with some "artistic creativity" those could be enough to create reliable reconstruction and game models.

 

However as those were only two purposefully build prototypes and third comparison vehicle build from non finished C7P tractor, those can be consider only as candidate for a premium vehicle.

 

Az6hVU1.png

 

 

9TP - an unofficial name for the improved 7TP tank , ordered by the Polish Ministry of National Defense in 29th June 1939 and planned to be produced since autumn 1939.

 

It is also known as  7TP wzmocniony (7-tonne Polish, reinforced) and  7TP wz. 1939 (7-tonne, Polish, mod. 1939) , after the names of two prototypes.

Certain non reliable sources claim that 7TP wz. 1939 version entered mass production in September 1939.

 

Protracted designing-construction works of Polish tank prototypes and the lack of ability to furnish army with modern equipment from abroad gave the foundation for a huge 7TP development in 1938. This programme was mainly aimed at increasing tank’s military value throughout strengthening its armour and (due to envisaged weight increase) using much more reliable powertrain which was supposed to maintain good manoeuvrability and traction performance. In the mid-1930’s, a large experience had been collected, and significant achievements in the field of producing armour plates were reported. Employees of Laboratorium Mechaniczno-Chemiczne BBT Br. Panc. (Mechanical-Chemical Laboratory of Armoured Weapons Technical Research Bureau) in cooperation with Komisja Badania Blach i Płyt Pancernych Instytutu Metalurgii i Metaloznawstwa (Commission for Research of Armour Plates and Sheet Metals from the Institute of Metallurgy and Metal Science) and metallurgical industry representatives had carried a lot of arduous studies followed by endurance tests of homogeneous and cemented (case-hardened) armour. Owing to the fact that Polish industry had short tradition in manufacturing modern plates, such issue was considered as a top priority. These researches led to work out and master mass production of 3-50 mm thick homogeneous armour plates, and also 8-20 mm thick cemented ones.

 

What was crucial for tanks’ mass production was that metallurgical achievements had made it possible to devise new methods of welding such huge components as hull. In 1937, on the basis of tests results, Maj. Eng. Tadeusz Biemacki, the manager of metallurgy department in Labolatorium BBT Br. Panc., designed and accomplished 7TP’s experimental hull, made of 5-17 mm thick welded armour plates. It weighted around 1700 kilograms — significantly less than hulls built with the previous method, i.e. through superposing plates on a grit formed frame, and, later on, merging them by rivets or screws.

 

Furthermore, some steps forward in the field of combustion engines had been made. In 1936, the engineers from BS PzInż (Studies Bureau of the State Engineering Works) — Jan Werner, Jerzy Dowkontt, Wacław Cywiński — created prototype power plants of own design, including the PzInż. 705 carburetor engine (indicated for a new family of lorries), and its derivative modification: the PzInż. 725 (more powerful, designed for heavy goods tracked vehicles). Data sheet of PzInż. 725: 345 kg, 6-cylinder inline vertical, cylinder bore x stroke: 100 x 110 mm, capacity: 5180 cm³, 95 HP at 2800 rpm, compression ratio: 6.35.

 

By 1939, several prototypes of this engine had been built; although they were factory-tested, it was impossible to gain some experience from long term exploitation. Accordingly, at the beginning of 1938, the State Engineering Works received the brand new Saurer CT1D diesel engine, and its bulk production was about to be launched under the designation PzInż. 155. Data sheet of PzInż. 155: 600 kg, 6-cylinder inline vertical, cylinder bore x stroke: 100 x 110 mm, capacity: 7980 cm³, 100 HP at 1800 rpm, compression ratio: 16. The Saurer Company provided complete documentation and several model engines.  The production start-up was foreseen for 1939.

 

In April 1938, the Armoured Weapons Command ordered in the State Engineering Works a prototype 7TP tank with such power plant. One month later, it was finally built and delivered to Armoured Weapons Technical Research Bureau (the sample was probably made of iron plate).  The tested vehicle (loaded with extra weight in order to simulate heavier armour) was considered as better than the one with PzInż. 725 engine. Its only disadvantage was that the newer motor showed less abilities to overcome rough terrain capabilities, which were caused by weight increase, while keeping the same chassis.

 

The proposals for further 7TP modernization were presented in two projects:                                                            

– the first, proposed by Armoured Weapons Technical Research Bureau (7TP reinforced): this modification provided newly developed Polish PzInż. 725 petrol engine (95 HP), which was smaller than the diesel one, and welded hull, of a lower profile, with a slanted front plate of the combat compartment. The brand new power plant was mounted on a right side of engine compartment (a drive shaft was also moved to right side, so it would be less an obstacle for the turret's crew). What is more, the cooling system had been significantly changed: its cooling grates were removed from an engine deck, and replaced with slots in sides. The motor's mass had an influence on reducing overall tank weight. All these qualities weighted in favour of PzInż. 725. On the other hand, the use of petrol increased the risk of fire, and tank would be ignited by direct hit. The armour, while maintaining the 7TP's weight and traction performance, was to be up to 30 mm in front and rear (vertical plates), 25 mm on a front slanted plate and the driver's hatch, and 20 mm on sides and turret. The driver was to be equipped with two G wz. 34 reversible periscopes. 

 

– the second, proposed by Studies Bureau of the State Engineering Works, worked by Edward Habich (7TP mod. 1939): in this variant, the PzInż. 155 engine was used. The tank hull shape was slightly different, in comparison with the 7TP; only armour thickness increased from 17 mm to 40 mm in hull front, from 17, 13 and 9 mm to 25, 20 and 13 mm respectively in sides, and from 15 to 20 mm in turret's sides and to 40 mm in turret's front. Weight also increased to 10 594 kg, so strengthened suspension (320 mm wider tracks, road wheels with replaceable rubber), and C7P tractor's transmission were proposed.

 

Both project were submitted for consideration in May 1939. Despite the fact that the State Engineering Works draw heavy criticism from Col. Patryk O'Brien de Lacy (the head of AWTRS), its solutions gained Armoured Weapons Command's approval. Two prototype light tanks named 7TP mod. 1939 were ordered. In July, these vehicles (with some different adjustments — the one had standard transmission, the other adopted from C7P tractor) were finally built and received by Military Technical Inspection. Since 28 July, in the Kampinos Forest, tanks had been investigated and subjected to comparative trials with the third vehicle (it was to be experimental 7TP with CT1D engine, or another prototype tank called PzInż. 725).

 

During the first drives, the prototype with C7P's transmission obtained the best results and performance, so it was supposed to be launched in mass production. Unfortunately, the outbreak of the Second World War foiled these plans.

 

At the beginning of September, two or three experimental 7TPs mod. 1939, along with several different prototypes, were assembled in the WD BBT Br. Panc. (the Experimental Workshop of AWTRS), and in the SEW in Ursus (former Czechowice) near Warsaw. There is no information whether they were evacuated or stranded (damaged or concealed).

 

The genesis of 7TP reinforced/ 7TP mod. 1939:                                                                                                                  

 

– 1932:                                                                                                                                                                                  

The beginning of designing a homegrown light tank based on Vickers tank; it had been marked as VAU-33 (Vickers-Armstrong-Ursus).

 

– 1933:

Agreement between AWTRS and the SEW for ordering in the SEW two made of steel prototype tanks, according to the VAU-33 project.

 

– 1934:

August — completion of an early transitional model in line with VAU-33 project; it was implied as PzInż. 120 (7TP twin-turret), carried no. 1595, and a nickname Smok (Dragon). Intensive trials and comparisons between PzInż. 120 and Vickers tank.

 

- 1935

August – second iron prototype, reg. No. 1596, according to VAU-33 Słoń (Elephant) design is completed.  The tank was handed to CW in Modlin and then to 3 Bat.Panc. in Warsaw for training purposes. During the year many improvements were introduced to the Smok, which, as prototype, was still at a disposal to BBT Br. Panc.

 

- 1937

January – Bofors turret was mounted at the iron Smok. The procedure was conducted in Warsztaty Doświadczalne BBTech. Br. Panc. The vehicle was given designation PZInż 220 as a single-turreted version of the 7TP tank. Basing on earlier experiments,  mjr inż. Tadeusz Biernacki, director of the metallurgy division of the Laboratorium BBT Br. Panc., designed and manufactured prototype hull for the 7TP tank. It was made from steel plates with thickness from 5 to 17 mm welded together and weighted 1700 kg. 

 

- 1938

April

The DBrPanc. ordered prototype 7TP tank with experimental Saurer CT1D/PZInż 155 engine from the PZInż.

 

May

Circa 25.05.1938 the 7TP prototype (reg. no. 1766) with the CT1D was handed to  BBT Br. Panc by PZInż for testing purposes. The tank had additional ballast attached in order to simulate the weight of the thicker armour. The tests were conducted in autumn of 1938 in Kompania Ćwiczebna Centrum Wyszkolenia Br. Panc. The tank number 1766 traversed 548 km during tests, the engine worked for 29 hours and 55 minutes. The CT1D was considered better than VBLDb, but the offroad capabilities were worse as the current chassis was kept.

 

- 1939

March

18.02.1939 or 21.03.1939 – the protocol from the tests of the prototype 7TP PZInż with the engine CT1D was written and the tank was rated well. The tank without mock-up ballast imitating the strengthened armour was 210 kg lighter than standard 7TP. The decision regarding further development — altering the design of the vehicle and adding additional armour — was made. Two parallel projects were started: BBTech Br. Panc and PZInz.

 

April/May

Presentation and evaluation of two projects (not final vehicles!) of the 7TP reinforced/9TP was conducted. Despite the criticism of design choices proposed by the PZInż by the BBTech Br. Panc., the commission of Dowództwo Br. Panc.approved the vehicle proposed by the PZInż.

As result, two prototype vehicles were ordered from the PZInż, called 7TP wzór 1939. The changes were to be introduced on two 7TP tanks being in on-going production, perhaps immediately with full-featured armour plates (as proposed by the BBTec Br. Panc). The BBTech Br. Panc made a single vehicle according to their own project using  iron plates based on the parts belonging to the first model 7TP tank (most probably the iron Smok still in possession of the WD BBTech Br. Panc.).

 

July

28/31.07.1939 and 03.08.1939 - the tanks were given for acceptance and tests to the military.

Vehicle no. 1 adhered to the proposal by the PZInż but was equipped with standard gearbox from 7TP. The PZInż vehicle no. 2 fully adhered to the PZInż proposal from May/April 1938, as it employed gearbox from C7P. The third vehicle was presumably the experimental 7TP with the CT1D/PZInż 725 engine. The best results were achieved by the PZInż no. 2 vehicle (with C7P gearbox) and this tank was to be made into series production.. 

The evaluation of vehicles from the PZInż and single one from the BBTech Br. Panc were conducted in the  Puszcza Kampinoska (Kampinoska Forest).

 

21.08.1939 

The paper regarding tests and improvements made in the PZInż no. 2 vehicle (C7P gearbox) was made.

Adjustments:

- moving the periscope/sight 80 mm forward,

- window of gunner’s left-side turret periscope raised 80 mm,

- direction scale added to the commander’s observation periscope,

- more efficient turret rotation drive was introduced (as the turret was heavier),

- studies regarding the improvements of ammunition were outlined,

- the lack of possibility of adding driver’s machine gun due to the mantlet was stated,

 

August/October

After capturing Warsaw, both prototypes were probably taken by Germans or hidden/destroyed by the Ursus employees.

According to the photographies, at least part of the PZInż prototypes stayed in Ursus (vide known photos of the PZInż 130). It would explain why the Germans could capture two vehicles. 

Was the third prototype (BBTech) evacuated?

 

 

Some sources state that 11 so called 9TP tanks did take part in fights - defending Warsaw, that's no true...
As was already cleared... there are photos clearly showing taht at least part of PZInż prototypes have remained in Ursus, being captured there by Germans.
 
Fate of these machines remains uncertain till present day. The prototypes were either captured by Germans after taking Warsaw or destroyed by Ursus’ workers.
Third prototype 7TP (reference, build from unfinished C7P of last production bath) was evacuated and probably cannibalised for field repairs of other vehicle's. 
There are no sources that could unequivocally confirm accounts of 11 9TP tanks having been produced and used during defense of Warsaw.
 
People claiming that 7TP reinforced and / or 7TP wz.39 were used in combat are often referring to the following publications:
 
- A. Jońca, J. Szubański, R. Tarczyński: Wrzesień 1939. Pojazdy Wojska Polskiego. Barwa i broń., Warszawa: Wydawnictwa Komunikacji i Łączności, 1990, str. 32, 52-58,
- A. Wszendyrówny, M. Wodejko: Czołg 7TP w dokumentach Centralnego Archiwum Wojskowego, w: "Do Broni", nr 1/2009, s. 96.
 
The following statements might be found there: 
2nd Light Tank Company of Warsaw Defence Command (...) Equipment: 11 7TP tanks (from PZInż current production) (p.32)
In September, about a dozen (11?) 7TPs rolled out of factory’s current production. (p.52)
The prototype (...) was constructed in 1938 and at the beginning of 1939 tests were ended. As the consequence, contracts for delivery of new armor plates were signed. Therefore, it is reasonable to suspect, that the tanks delivered for the army in 1939 had new armour scheme.
 
As we can see, instead of explicit confirmation, only suspicions are found, and 11 tanks mentioned in excerpts above were probably part of last 7TP production series based on C7P tractors.

 

 

7TP reinforced, BBT Br Panc factory prototype, shown at 20.04.1939
- welded armor with thickness in range 8-30 mm, evenly laid, mass similar to the series 7TP, about 9858 kg with the service, sides of the vehicle made from two plates,
- original 7TP suspension,
- the difference of axial loading limited to 68 kg from 785 kg in standard 7TP,
- ultimately carburetor engine (powered by petrol) PZINż 725 with power of  95-100 HP (maximal about 105 HP), weight 370 kg, requires single radiator. Standard Saurer VBLDb weighted 850 kg and required two radiators. The engine was located near the side of the hull, behind the driver. The engine was not series produced yet,
- the Cardan shaft (without joints) was altered and moved to the side of the vehicle, eliminating the obstacle that hindered the ability of crew to work inside of the tanks,
- standard gearbox (aluminum casing),
- 130 mm (to 1988 mm) lower profile of the tank due to smaller engine, 
- favorable silhouette (skewed frontal plate, different rear etc.),
- more space inside, increased crew comfort,
- two wz. 34 periscopes for driver and commander,
- thicker rubber layer on the road wheels,
- intended speed of 32-34 km/h (on road?),
- removal of all air circulation shutters, introducing solution as in  „Skoda”/”Koblen Danek” tanks.
 
 
 
7TP wz.39, prototype made by PZInż (E. Habich) shown at 05.04.1939.
Features:
Welded lower armor plate with thickness of 5 to 40 mm., uneven thickness: 40 mm in front, 25, 20 and 13 mm on sides, 40 mm turret front, 20mm turret back and sides, rear and upper armor without changes in relation to initial design of 7TP tank, 
- PZInż 155/CT1D engine — license model produced by PZInż since early 1938.
- Gearbox adopted from C7P tractor (aluminium casing),
- Increase in weight to ca. 11 tons (different sources claim increase of 729 or 800 kgs compared to standard version).
- Reworked suspension, track width 320 mm (standard version — 267 mm)
- Slightly changed outline (three additional plates of side armor?)
- Road wheels covered with rubber,
- substantially increased pressure of front wheels.
- Increased mass may result in engine overheating issues (radiators in standard version were working at maximal power).
- Speed up to 26,6 km/h on the road and 11,5 km/h off-road (tested in Kampinos village).
 

 

 

Prototypes comparison:
Blue — 7TP reinforced, according to BBT Br Panc shown at 20.04.1939.
Red — 7TP wz.39, according to Biuro Studiów PZInż (E.Habich) shown at 05.04.1939.

 

1eYlKwv.jpg

 

MCjePn2.jpg aOMPCHZ.png

 

 

 

 

I appreciate the information. Pretty soon I’ll update everything, including previous mentioned vehicles. 

Edited by Yontzee

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So I made some small updates to some vehicles such as a new video of the AMZ Kutna Bóbr-3 Tank Destroyer. Unfortunately I'm currently capped on picture upload space so I can't add anymore information/pictures/data to the tree, however, if anyone posts the full data for WIP vehicles in the comments, I'll reflect it in the tech tree and state the originator of the information. Thank you! 

 

I want to add there is not many options currently in-game for a Polish sub-tree or a country to add it to. The only other ways is for the tree to be part of something like a future Visegrád/Eastern European tree, a part of the French Tree, German Tree, or preferably its own stand-alone tree. Some of those options are least to be desired however, I stand firm on adding a full/complete Polish Tech Tree above all options. Please use this information from this Tech Tree to support a full/complete Polish Tech Tree. :salute:

 

I will also be reflecting the 7TP Reinforced in the Tech Tree, thanks for the information @RazNaRok!

Edited by Yontzee
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Considering that Israel now got their own tree It's safe to say that most suggestions like this are defunct as there where many nations which have far more domestic designs that weren't added. Poland Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia all being prime examples. They should be added as their own trees. 

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  • Yontzee changed the title to Polish Ground Forces Sub-tree Redux (13 June 2023) - Mazurek Dąbrowskiego
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