Tiger driver's vision port in detail

[FlashbangM17 757]

i say the tiger's DM is correct here is historical footage of a tiger being knocked out

 

[Rohnlex 2,367]

well he are a few shots that were close, one actually on the bow gunner, I don't know though what was actually taking shoots at it, Can't find any specific details 

 

Oh look, the turret wasn't penetrated... meanwhile in WT a tiger dies to a single shot to the turret.

[Sonicboom321 42]

Hey you should put this in the suggestion section if you havent yet, looks like you have alot of data to back this up

[MalleusTempus 803]

No i mean the part when they are clearing the first Tiger ,he shoots his Thompson through the drivers hatch and kill the driver,then they open the commanders cuppola(which i think it was not possible) 

The commander opens it trying to get out after the mess made by the Thompson (which obviously wouldn't have happened in the first place) 

[MalleusTempus 803]

Hey you should put this in the suggestion section if you havent yet, looks like you have alot of data to back this up

Prob have a better chance added to Bug report section, those actually get sent to Devs I believe, suggestions, not so much. 

[flying_brick 104]

No i mean the part when they are clearing the first Tiger ,he shoots his Thompson through the drivers hatch and kill the driver,then they open the commanders cuppola(which i think it was not possible) 

OK, I found the video again on Youtube. With this one you are totally right, shooting the Thompson into the open viewport wouldn't have achieved nothing but maybe breaking some glass. I agree that this is a movie fail.

 

I guess they just ran out of ideas about how to stop a Tiger with improvised means and since the replica they used didn't have a 90mm thick glass block inside the view port they came up with this.

[CrusaderXx 3,871]

You HAVE to make a bug report as well as suggestion about this!

 

Nothing will happen in this section, this is discussion only!

[_waldbiene_ 14,632]

You HAVE to make a bug report as well as suggestion about this!

 

Nothing will happen in this section, this is discussion only!

 

Yea, but why am I the the one who has to do it all alone?

 

I need ingame videos of penetration tests against the Tiger's frontal armor to make a good bug report.

 

I already researched my 4ss off for this (and other threads), and I repeatetly asked for some custom mission penetration tests on the Tiger with special attention to the visor and the armor around it, in several threads.

 

ONE guy posted 1 replay, else NOTHING.

 

Am I the only one who can do something like this?

 

:dntknw:

 

Am I the only one who is interested in getting the Tiger fixed?

 

:dntknw:

 

Ellie_WT said the Alpha testers are working on testing the mantlets and other things and that they need lots of data for it, which we should send to him...

 

This issue is already in the tracker. also some tanks might not have it yet, others will, test the tanks that you have with this, PM it to me, I will check with the others and see if it is not implemented on the tanks you have and then some.

 

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/141169-gun-mantlets-do-they-have-an-armour-profile/page-2#entry2660086

Edited May 23, 2014 by Trommelfeuer

[Lord_Arcturus 1,670]

[spoiler]

Yea, but why am I the the one who has to do it all alone?

 

I need ingame videos of penetration tests against the Tiger's frontal armor to make a good bug report.

 

I already researched my 4ss off for this (and other threads), and I repeatetly asked for some custom mission penetration tests on the Tiger with special attention to the visor and the armor around it, in several threads.

 

ONE guy posted 1 replay, else NOTHING.

 

Am I the only one who can do something like this?

 

:dntknw:

 

Am I the only one who is interested in getting the Tiger fixed?

 

:dntknw:

[/spoiler]

 

Ellie_WT said the Alpha testers are working on testing the mantlets and other things and that they need lots of data for it, which we should send to him...

 

 

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/141169-gun-mantlets-do-they-have-an-armour-profile/page-2#entry2660086

Send me your .clog, screenshots of where you shot, and replays, I am going to be scouring through the tracker, double check, if it doesn't exist anymore I will make the report, but I need a lot of info from a lot of tanks, I just hope can have that many things in a single report xD

 

Trom, PM me and the ones who will assist so we don't spam 7 PM's at a single guy all at once please.

[_waldbiene_ 14,632]

Excellent Ellie, thank you very much, am grinding some more russian tanks atm for some pentration tests against Tiger armor. ;)

 

:salute:

 

making good progress atm... ;)

Edited May 23, 2014 by Trommelfeuer

[Flyingxpanzer 28]

very interesting i never knew this.

[ThePfeil 1,697]

So, I did a little bit of research on the MG 34 Kugelblenden (ball mounts), as for the Tiger I, it seems that all production variants were fitted with the Kugelblende 100, making this "glaring weakspot" another "not quite so weak spot" on the Tiger's frontal armor plate. Could only find schematic drawings for a Kugelblende 50 so far (which was used on the PzKpfw III's and IV's later versions), but the assembly principle is the same, just the thickness of the ball mount and cover vary.

As you can see, there was no welding, as the whole assembly is bolted together from the inside.

 

And a Profile view of said Kugelblende 100:

Edited May 23, 2014 by ThePfeil

[Rohnlex 2,367]

Yea, but why am I the the one who has to do it all alone?

 

I need ingame videos of penetration tests against the Tiger's frontal armor to make a good bug report.

 

I already researched my 4ss off for this (and other threads), and I repeatetly asked for some custom mission penetration tests on the Tiger with special attention to the visor and the armor around it, in several threads.

 

ONE guy posted 1 replay, else NOTHING.

 

Am I the only one who can do something like this?

 

:dntknw:

 

Am I the only one who is interested in getting the Tiger fixed?

 

:dntknw:

 

Ellie_WT said the Alpha testers are working on testing the mantlets and other things and that they need lots of data for it, which we should send to him...

 

 

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/141169-gun-mantlets-do-they-have-an-armour-profile/page-2#entry2660086

 

I can help you to test in custom battles.. add me in WT.

[CrusaderXx 3,871]

Oko, I am grinding now as well.

Should have the Tiger by tomorrow and the T-34s up to the 85 in 2-3 days.

[Sciarra_Colonna 155]

UP! This is a great post!

Hope gaijin read it!

[Randy_Pitchford 1,047]

A cross section for the machinegun port of the tiger:

As one can see, the armor of the port (greyed out a bit) is just as strong as the other frontal armor, if not even stronger in some points. The ball holding the machine gun is also made of armor plate steel, so it isn't a weak  point either. The only weak point would be the hole in the ball  which is reserved for the machine gun - although this weak spot is even smaller than the slit in the driver's vision port.

 

Edit: To get more information or images on that topic, search for "Kugelblende" and a number indicating the armor thickness (that can be 30, 50 and 100, + maybe more), so for example I found this picture using "Kugelblende 100"

It is important to note here that shell impacts closer to the edge of plates will tend to cause fragmentation and potential catastrophic incidents. It is why bow machine guns are no longer a part of modern tanks: It compromises the armor for little benefit, and is recognized as a weak spot. We can see it clearly in various period field manuals and graphs, instructing tankers to aim for weak spots - of which the vision slit and bow machine gun port were two.

[UnholyKyono 429]

wow, this is an impressive picture. If I am not mistaken, you can see different battle damage on the fron Tiger. Aside from the driver's viewport, there also seems to be a non pentrating hit on the far left side of the gun mantlet. And the sloped upper glacis , in the front of the mg port, could also have taken a hit. These things really tell a story just by themselves.

 

On the other hand, you see towing cables being fixed to all the tanks in the column. Did they get stuck? How was the maneuverability with the Tiger?

 

The track added as additional armour on the lower frontal hull has also taken quite a few hits and is in pretty bad shape on the left (right side of the picture).

Edited May 25, 2014 by UnholyKyono

[Mortiferum 17,061]

A suggestion so it benefits all is this.

On opening hatch, keen vision for driver is active, and driving gets a 15 point improvement (HELPS WHEN YOU CAN SEE :p)

Close the shield and 15 point (or any number gaijin want) bonus is gone, keen vision deactivated, and Armor is 80mm+100mm (If that was the case IRL)

[Aerobane 4,140]

I would like to help but I don't even have a tiger, and at this rate it will be a while till I get one :(

 

I do have a panzer III L, IV F2, KV-1 if you want any help in CBs!

[_waldbiene_ 14,632]

A suggestion so it benefits all is this.

On opening hatch, keen vision for driver is active, and driving gets a 15 point improvement (HELPS WHEN YOU CAN SEE :p)

Close the shield and 15 point (or any number gaijin want) bonus is gone, keen vision deactivated, and Armor is 80mm+100mm (If that was the case IRL)

 

Excellent idea!

 

Here's a nice photo showing how the visor looked like in the completly closed position:

 

 

source:  http://scaleplasticandrail.com/kaboom/index.php/joomla-community/40/507-panzerwrecks-x-german-armour-1944-45-authors-lee-archer-a-william-auerbach

Edited May 25, 2014 by Trommelfeuer

[Caddylack 1,538]

On opening hatch, keen vision for driver is active, and driving gets a 15 point improvement (HELPS WHEN YOU CAN SEE :p)

Close the shield and 15 point (or any number gaijin want) bonus is gone, keen vision deactivated, and Armor is 80mm+100mm (If that was the case IRL)

This benefit will barely pay off in SB due to marker less envirounment but the core feauture is ok.

 

Of course having real interiour views from the drivers position would even make better use of this, though I doubt Gaijin is willing to provide us with such beautyfull details in future.

 

Anyway good job on your ressearch Trommel and others, good luck saving the Tiger!

[unoPara 97]

I would love to see this game become as realistic as possible. I honestly don't care if tanks have weakspots and blow up when they are shot in that weakspot as longs as it's historically accurate. If Tiger's gun port and driver's visor were NOT a weakspot, then it should be fixed asap. It's really gear grinding to be annihilated by some T-34/76 with one shot from 1km... 

[Mauser151 506]

Man, when I read the Combat Reports from the Tiger in Trommel's other Threat and compare it to to Tiger we have in game I can't help but thinking that Gaijin modeled the Tiger of off the Wooden Mockup at Henschel instead of the Real Thing.

 

As far as that Drivers View port is concerned, it should open when you're driving and close as Soon™™ as you stop your Tiger to engage a Target. That shouldn't be too complicated to implement.

Just my two cents.

Edited May 25, 2014 by ThomasFranz67

[_waldbiene_ 14,632]

Man, when I read the Combat Reports from the Tiger in Trommel's other Threat and compare it to to Tiger we have in game I can't help but thinking that Gaijin modeled the Tiger of off the Wooden Mockup at Henschel instead of the Real Thing.

 

As far as that Drivers View port is concerned, it should open when you're driving and close as Soon™™™™™™ as you stop your Tiger to engage a Target. That shouldn't be too complicated to implement.

Just my two cents.

 

Part of the problem is that the Tiger faces tanks that were designed to kill it basically all the time...

 

It is basically immune to lower era T-34s....

 

Ingame it faces only IS-1, KV-85, T-34-57, T-34-85, SU-122, SU-152....

 

So yea, the Tiger should be killable by T-34-57s and T-34-85 etc., just not so easily:

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/141098-so-the-tiger/page-9#entry2690221

 

 

Test 1, details:

 

There is 100mm of hull armor behind the 80mm armor shield that I penetrated...

 

 

 

 

:dntknw:

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/141098-so-the-tiger/page-9#entry2690346

Edited May 25, 2014 by Trommelfeuer

[Armoredbeercan 2,808]

I personally would enjoy fighting a tiger in a T-34 76 or 57 or an Su 122.the 57 equipped t-34 was an emergency solution to the tiger and should fight it.