The Length of Arcade Battles: Opinions of the Community

[SkyKnight2014 108]

 

On 10/12/2014 at 8:35 PM, Wibox said:

Dear Players,

 

The length of Arcade Battles has always been a topic in our Community. Please use this poll to give us an insight about your thoughts on the length of battles and use the comments to give further feedback and also reason to why you vote how you did.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

From a pilots point of view in game,  I voted for more time of play in Arcade and Simulation Modes also known as more time on station (Threat Zone / F.L.O.T) and able to fly back and refuel, also known as hot refueling and rearming.

 

More time on the battlefield allows you to destroy threats strategically and call in support and fly in mutual support fighter engagements aka Dogfights in a package size of 2 x ship fighters engaging enemy fighters over the battlefield.

 

Anything less than 30mins is really difficult to successfully achieve a win on all tasking orders assigned by the mission objectives before flight.

 

Here hoping that War Thunder Devs increase the immersion and realism of more in-depth simulated play based on what I describe above, especially coming from a Simulator background like ED-DCS A-10C and other similar sim games.

 

Thats the approach and where the fun is at.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by SkyKnight2014

[DoNotRemember 110]

 

I don't even have time to die in such matches. I can't say it is rare today. And, including enemy planes scattered over all the map and time needed to reach any of them, it is impossible to enjoy such matches at all. Something needs to be done for higher levels too.

[SkyKnight2014 108]

Yep, ^^^

 

Just to reinforce what I posted above "WW2 AIRCRAFT LOITERING TIMES"  were on average 5hrs missions not 5mins like in War Thunder so why not make battles at least an hour game-play with better fuel management options for 1 hr game time.

 

Quote

 

 

WWII AIRCRAFT LOITERING TIMES

 

Don't quote me on this but if I remember correctly my Uncle told about his longest missions; 11 hours and 15 minutes. So depending on the mission requirements the P-51 had a long duration flight time. It could have been 8 hours and 15 - I'll check. Loiter time always took into consideration a reserve for combat ops which usually was 20 to 30 minutes tops.

 

Online Reference:-   http://www.ww2f.com/topic/42024-loiter-times/

 

 

Other Reference Links :-

 

• https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol-58-no-3/pdfs-vol-58-no-3/KD-Aussie ELINT-WWII-withMaps-31August.pdf
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_air_support

 

This included the flight time to the mission zone and air combat on station and the flight back to base a good portion of the day in hours not minutes.

 

So Gaigin needs to increase game-play at least 45min but better to an 1hr for realism and immersion.

 

For Example a -  BRONCO OV-10 Multi-role Light Attack Aircraft has 2Hrs "Loitering Time on Station"!

 

Links:- http://www.boeing.com/history/products/ov-10-bronco.page

 

Considering this:- https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/327284-ov-10a-bronco/&

 

I also shared a good solution here  ............  https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/349671-ideas-for-new-game-modes/&do=findComment&comment=6766851

 

Also Gaijin really have to  decide what "Age - Group" are they marketing for that really would appreciate a "War Combined Arms Combat Combat game like War Thunder because a 10 year old knows nothing about this stuff.

 

Current Age - Group known so far is between 10 - 60 years old!  

 

More here on Marketing .....................https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/344466-gaijin-finally-stepping-up-the-marketing-game/

 

Its also why I posted this here:- https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/350950-off-topic-community-questions-q’s/

 

But..........

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by SkyKnight2014

[Saint_StuG 1,282]

last battle saw an enemy team almost full of bombers. I climbed straight into the battle, got 1 kill, and the battle was about over.... I had seen no more than 54 SECONDS of combat, which makes me believe the match was less then 3 minutes long

 

It wasn't that bad for me, since one of the engines of my P-38 was ruined by a Sterling, but that was absurd. of all the players in the top 3 of both teams, only one had scored kills on planes...

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

On 2/12/2017 at 8:58 AM, SkyKnight2014 said:

Yep, ^^^

 

Just to reinforce what I posted above "WW2 AIRCRAFT LOITERING TIMES"  were on average 5hrs missions not 5mins like in War Thunder so why not make battles at least an hour game-play with better fuel management options for 1 hr game time.

 

This included the flight time to the mission zone and air combat on station and the flight back to base a good portion of the day in hours not minutes.

 

So Gaigin needs to increase game-play at least 45min but better to an 1hr for realism and immersion.

 

Keep in mind that this is the arcade battle section... People that want games 45m to an hour need something like realistic or simulator where there is refueling and rearming involved.  The majority of people in arcade want 15-20m battles.

[Hohum33 680]

1 hour ago, l_AM_GOD said:

 

Keep in mind that this is the arcade battle section... People that want games 45m to an hour need something like realistic or simulator where there is refueling and rearming involved.  The majority of people in arcade want 15-20m battles.

 

...but get 5-10m

[NoFux2Giv 62]

22 hours ago, Hohum33 said:

 

...but get 5-10m

OR LESS!

 

I am often now waiting 2 minutes to get into a battle, only to lose it within 2 minutes.

Also, the 2 minutes I see on the counter are not realistic. There are the 20 seconds addition after the battle starts before the battle actually starts.

After the loss there are the minimum of 20 seconds to see what my rating was like, how many hits, kills, etc. Then close that and restart the next countdown.

 

So... an average, maybe of "3 minutes waiting for 3 minutes in battle" of which 90 seconds are spent climbing in the non-maxed plane to try to get altitude (and so on and so forth).

 

The ONLY games I am enjoying at the moment are the ones that last at least 10 minutes.

Air-Dom for example. No automatic exploding ground targets... no bomber spamming... just planes trying to out fly each other.

It is in such games that I have my best results, and most satisfaction in the game.

 

It is no fun to set oneself up at height, see a good enemy climbing with you, and attempting to get into a proper test of flying ability, only to have the game won/lost before he and I can push our sleeves up.

 

Gaijin... PLEASE!!!!

Make the games longer!

[SkyKnight2014 108]

9 hours ago, Young_Gully said:

OR LESS!

 

I am often now waiting 2 minutes to get into a battle, only to lose it within 2 minutes.

Also, the 2 minutes I see on the counter are not realistic. There are the 20 seconds addition after the battle starts before the battle actually starts.

After the loss there are the minimum of 20 seconds to see what my rating was like, how many hits, kills, etc. Then close that and restart the next countdown.

 

So... an average, maybe of "3 minutes waiting for 3 minutes in battle" of which 90 seconds are spent climbing in the non-maxed plane to try to get altitude (and so on and so forth).

 

The ONLY games I am enjoying at the moment are the ones that last at least 10 minutes.

Air-Dom for example. No automatic exploding ground targets... no bomber spamming... just planes trying to out fly each other.

It is in such games that I have my best results, and most satisfaction in the game.

 

It is no fun to set oneself up at height, see a good enemy climbing with you, and attempting to get into a proper test of flying ability, only to have the game won/lost before he and I can push our sleeves up.

 

Gaijin... PLEASE!!!!

Make the games longer!

 

^^^^^ Amen Bro!  ^^^^

 

Just to continue this friendly chat, because I honestly could expand and write a full development plan and concept that best fits all age groups between 10 - 60 years of age and I will if asked by a War Thunder Dev, but to get to the point my son is 10 years old he plays Minecraft for hours on end and even some other arcade games that play for hours.

 

Kids just need to understand what this game is all about, now with proper built in training missions like the good old Janes USAF sims, then kids will enjoy War Thunder and learn to apply military knowledge to this type of game genre.

 

Example:- https://youtu.be/Yrmwnxsb10I

 

Again I ask the community to answer these questions here....................https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/350950-off-topic-community-questions-q’s/

 

I also think complete large MAPs needed for all modes AB+RB+SB.

 

........... and why not sell large maps and more models in the Gaijin Online shop...................

 

Point is people discuss realism and want immersion how can you get that in a 5-10 min shooter thrill what a waste of programming in areas that are meaningless or brainless online activity that has no real purpose.

 

Seriously, what do you achieve in 5 min Arcade Battles and thats where all the action is because there are no restrictions to aircraft line up like in RB and SB.

 

Sadly, its all about revenue and its slowly losing its audience as gamers eventually just disappear when not heard, because they are not stupid!

 

With some respect some areas of the game as a "Free to Play - MMO" concept is good but many things need to be changed and developed further or more like the old combat sims of the 1990's for it to be of value for those that understand combat game in a true form.

 

***** More here on that:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Combat_flight_simulators

 

But most of us get it, we get it, as its all falling on deaf ears! Sadly!

 

Thats fine then, so when I'm bored I will load a 5 min shooter game for fun as a "FREE TO PLAY" to fill in the gaps instead of enjoying something more in-depth as study war sim game with realistic game-play and true on station loitering times of at least 1 hr.

 

Truth be said to all here that "SB+RB" modes are not pure in realism and they restrict use of aircraft to 1 only and your not really part of the game if you dont have a "PREMIUM ACCOUNT".............. well thats not for me.

 

Its a rip-off to be honest and unfair if you have made at least one purchase like I have a P-51D+Pack for $30.AUD as a paying customers opinion, not impressed!

 

I rather and /or prefer to load up my "Atari Allied Force Falcon 4.0 Sim" and enjoy something meaningful, without a pyramid scheme controlling my gaming experience.

 

Like this.................. https://youtu.be/tyoc9V5tZ1Q

 

Carry -on................................

 

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by SkyKnight2014

[Revenge_of_Rokos 22]

This thread was started in 2014...... and NOTHING has been improved since I started playing in 2015

 

How stupid is gaijin to ignore the overwhelming majority who favor longer battles????? Do they not realize that shorter battles make people less invested in the game? I mean if they want to make money isn't it obvious that when new players see the 5-6 minute match times they would not even consider buying premium planes because of how short the matches are?

 

This ridiculous obsession with keeping matchmaking times low at the expense of gameplay quality..... I'd rather wait 3 mins for a 20 minute match than 1 minute for a 6 minute match. Gaijin will do nothing and ignore this entire thread even though it is obvious that these short match times are making higher tier players leave and lower tier players not want to play the game.

 

This game will die if matches are this short, because most people play AB, but gaijin just ignores overwhelming community feedback.

 

 

[PeeR87 0]

total bekloppt dieses spiel 

[Royal_Smith 216]

Far too short, 30m AB, 60m RB/SB. Being the average arcade battle 10 minutes if not less, way to many ground pound, for way too long. Your aproach as a company is somewhat doubtful, compromosing a lot, especially with these kind of pools that everyone can see, it is clear, is not something you need feedback, you have the stats and know the average time of arcade.

[SneakySausage 786]

10 mins or close to is usually good I feel, 30 mins as posted above is just to long

[Royal_Smith 216]

It will never be 30 minutes otherwise what would be the point of premiums. This way you farm less and you are forced to gorund pound to win. But 30 minutes is just what makes sense to me. Break operations of 10 minutes? 10 minutes of Air domination? Up to this update you are going to buy if you aim tier V. Those who favor mini arcade seem to be looking at the ground pound. Its just a pitty that because of money they trow all other interesting modes in the bin.

[SneakySausage 786]

I would actually say your not farming less, as you could simply hop in q again, and hav your best ground Pounder planes ready again. 

 

In ab air, many matches where the entire opposing team is shot down, lasts much less than 30 mins, probably 15 or even less. Not uncommon to see matches under, 10 min with over 5 people on a team knocked out. Of course u get games won by objective, whilst only a small group of opponents cling on. I'd rather end this match quickly as chasing stragglers and non confrontionsl opponents or airfield defenders is boring/annoying and in some cases impossible if you can't reach em (to fast or high)

 

Ab ground lots of matches are won by destroying other teams tanks Sooo yeh

[Royal_Smith 216]

Even tho the majority of arcade is pretty much short term, gaijin will you make 20 minutes arcade games this year?!! or before 2020?! keep in mind changing the counter, matters little as most maps are ground strike, so if you could stop being cheap and add + ground veichles that would be greatly appreciated.

[Evi1Monkey 44]

As a newish player, the big problem is bombers ending the game early.

It seems more PVE than PvP - it's all about how many players you have in bombers pressing spacebar on stationary ground targets.

Being in a fighter seems to have a much lower influence on the match. 

Want to pew pew? be prepared to lose more.

Want to win? press spacebar on NPC targets.

[ToasterOverlordE 13]

I have only been playing for a bit but I can tell that the current time in the early tiers isn't conducive to helping people play to their planes strength. The short time frame encourages mad furballing and turn fighting over boom n zoom which takes much longer to set up. It's frustrating as a new player  to get 8 kills on a good day with a turn fighter but struggle to get 4 with a BnZ plane because of the length of the battles. Maps with domination are not bad as those last longer than ground strike and you can actually destroy all enemy planes in those modes. In ground strike, it ends too quickly with bases and ground targets but 90% of the matches I get are ground strike so its not balanced. 

The ground targets and bases make bombers too important and give them more rewards than a fighter as they can decide the fate of the battle but we hardly cannot unless we actively hunt bombers but personally that's nowhere as fun as dogfighting other fighters. Bombers are still important and shouldn't be punished but I would like to see either an increase in ground targets, more base health or some other conditions that lengthen the games so it doesn't restrict the types of flying. 

I would love to see more battles where the battle is won by all enemy planes being destroyed and not just a bomber rush destroying all the ground targets

[Sirzin 29]

I would love Arcade Battles to be LONGER. 

[MajorHavloc 1]

Battles are so short that it almost forces players to be aggressive to the point of foolhardiness in order to have a chance to score kills.

With biplanes, I've gotten to the point that I go straight down onto the deck and turn-fight because trying to keep an altitude advantage just allows the only monoplane fighter in the battle to zoom climb onto my six from somewhere in the dirt.

 

Tank battles have the same problem. Everyone simply trys to bum rush the capture zone rather than implementing any strategy or flanking maneuvers. 

[Evi1Monkey 44]

I'd like arcade battles to be.. well a little longer, but more consistent.

 

I'd like the game length to be not so dependent on how many people spam bombers and ground attackers.

[I_AM_CROM 221]

Where does Air DoM and Domination depending on how many People spam Bombers?

 

Before yesterday i had 70% Dominations at BR 3.3 . So where the Problem? 1 Air Dom at 4.3 .

 

Most Players in Fighters do the fault to shoot down better 3 useless planes instead of 1 important. Thats the difference between n00bs and Pro,s: N00bs chase everything, Pros pick Targets....

 

How bad most Players really are you see in Air Assault - there you see exactly the same fail: Players prefer to kill 10 Fighters instead of 1 Bomber - which in the End does the Job and drop his load.

 

And then i read this crying all the time....

[Evi1Monkey 44]

Quote

 

Where does Air DoM and Domination depending on how many People spam Bombers?

 

Before yesterday i had 70% Dominations at BR 3.3 . So where the Problem? 1 Air Dom at 4.3 .

 

And then i read this crying all the time....

 

 

Why am I suddenly confident that this guy spams nothing but P-47s?

 

Quote

Thats the difference between n00bs and Pro,s: N00bs chase everything, Pros fly OP aircraft

 

FTFY. (OK, if he doesn't fly P-47s I apologise for this slur, but the 3.3 comment made my spidey sense tingle... seen a lot of rather average (I mean "pro") players with excellent WR due to spamming P47s on ground attack and winning headons against the foolish)

[I_AM_CROM 221]

Words of a clueless.

 

This Page will help you to see which vehicles a Player used last 1000 Battles:

 

http://thunderskill.com/en/squad_top

 

I dunno when i played P-47s last - maybe throughout the Event (and they are not counted on statistics), thats the one Thing and the next, Squads get matched against Squads and the better Squad often wins. What you think how many "Wager-Squads" fly around between 2.7-4.3 ? 

 

I just read a lot of your argues and all what i could determine is that most what you say is very short-sighted.

 

Battles are too short cause 7 Players hunt a P-47 which have dropped their load and let 5 other Planes pass...Gaijin can Change what they want, but the mainly reason why battles are too short they never can Change - the person who sit 15 cm in front of the Screen.

 

 

[Evi1Monkey 44]

Quote

Battles are too short cause 7 Players hunt a P-47 which have dropped their load and let 5 other Planes pass...

 

That infers P47s without bombs are worthless?  Say a P47 squad (which are NOT necessarily matched against another P47 squad) all spawn twice.
Each time they get 2-3 with their bombs, then they .50cal another 3-4 more. They can even fly straight and ignore interceptors when strafing as it'll take that long for them to be brought down due to their toughness and speed. No skill required.  Not to mention their A-36/A-20/F4U/F6F etc backups if needed.  They are the ground attack equivalent of 109F4 spawn campers. Can't argue the effectiveness.

 

Then they get shot down, respawn, repeat - boom - that's 36+ ground targets between a squad. That's a BIG contribution to a win. Not a lot of skill required.

 

Or a couple of bombers - say Do217s. They dive on a base, drop bombs, die, repeat.  They spawn a few times - and voila, bases go poof!  Again, quite a lot of reward for low effort.

So I don't blame the people who do it - it makes sense!

 

Yes, they can be countered. But the counter (cure) requires a lot more teamwork and effort. No easy to find in random games. Which is also less lucrative.

 

Quote

the mainly reason why battles are too short they never can Change - the person who sit 15 cm in front of the Screen.

 

I agree, but I'm referring to the player spawning the bombers for easy RP/$$$. Which they are encouraged to do by the game design.

 

You need to pose coherent arguments as to why the game is balanced between PvE/PvP at the moment. Or why game lengths are just right.  Not just "words of a clueless" or by blaming players on the wrong end of the current balance mechanics. 

 

It seems disingenuous to blame players for "lack of skill," decision-making and teamwork when the enemy they must counter do not require much skill beyond "dive and aim for the static ground target."   A bomber pilot who merely dives, dumps his bombs and dies 3-4 times can majorly influence the game.

 

I'm not blaming players who pad their WR by focussing on ground attack. Good on them!  They deserve their wins. They are playing wisely within the meta/game mechanics.  I blame Gaijin for making it so easy to do, and making it effect the game length, and also negating the usefulness of other, non-PvE activities. 

[Valcour 1,141]

Of course the way MM has been working of late if you get teams that are balanced enough for the fight to last 5 minutes then you are lucky.