Aircraft/Loadouts English Electric Canberra B(I)6 and Martin B-57B

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

Recently in his Q and A, Lassar mentioned prior to update 1.43 that the Canberra B(I)6 and B-57B models of the Canberra family would be possibly considered after the update depending on the situation and peoples opinions.

 

I am also keen to understand peoples options on these upgraded models of Jet bomber/Attack aircraft that are the logical evolution of our most recent additions to the US and UK bomber branches.

 

A few things to note:

 

1) This is mainly for those that have the Canberra B2 or B-57A and benefits mostly jet combat experienced players, but is open to all.

 

2) My initial thoughts is that these aircraft should have a BR of around 9.0 BR, so it is impossible that they face any prop aircraft and exist purely to support the top end gameplay (Sabres/MiGs/CL-13 era). Currently the top of the BR scale is almost exclusively fighter vs fighter combat and whilst the IL-28 is capable of operating at this level, the Canberra B2 and B-57A would not do so as well as they have no armament at all and rely purely on their speed as a defensive weapon (Much like the Ar 234, however obviously a step up). With the Ar 234C planned on the ASAP tree, that means Japan, Russia and Germany will have some form of Jet attacker/bomber with forward firing cannon armament, all be it at different levels.

 

So with that in mind, the current Canberras could be moved up to avoid constant prop confrontation and the new ones could support top tier jet gameplay:

 

Current Canberras:

 

Canberra B2: 7.3 BR

B-57A: 7.7 BR

 

New Canberras:

 

Canberra B(I)6: 9.0

B-57B: 9.0

 

So, lets take a look at them:

 

English Electric Canberra B(I)6

The (I) Stands for Interdictor model

 

 

The Canberra B(I)6 was intended as an interim model before the improved and refined B 8 version of the aircraft would be able to enter service. The power plant for the B(I)6 was a pair of Rolls Royce Avon 109 engines and the aircraft could be fitted with an externally mounted gun pack that replaced the internal bomb capacity. This pack operated 4 x Hispano Mk V 20mm cannons and could also carry 2 x 303 7.62 mm machine guns. External Pylons were also used to complement the internal bomb bay or increase ground attack capability's when the gun pack was mounted.

 

B(I)6 model Canberras were operated from July of 1953 only by 213 Squadron from RAF bases in Germany. 22 aircraft were produced of this model.

 

 

English Electric Canberra B(I)6 Specifications:

• Crew: 3
• Length: 65 ft 6 in (19.96 m)
• Wingspan: 64 ft 0 in (19.51 m)
• Height: 15 ft 8 in (4.77 m)
• Wing area: 960 ft² (89.19 m²)
• Empty weight: 21,650 lb (9,820 kg)
• Loaded weight: 46,000 lb (20,865 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 55,000 lb (24,948 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Avon R.A.7 Mk.109 turbojets, 7,400 lbf (36 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 0.88 (580 mph, 933 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,192 m)
• Combat radius: 810 mi (700 nm, 1,300 km)
• Ferry range: 3,380 mi (2,940 nm, 5,440 km)
• Service ceiling: 48,000 ft (15,000 m)
• Rate of climb: 3,400 ft/min (17 m/s)
• Wing loading: 48 lb/ft² (234 kg/m²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.32

Armament

• Guns: 4 20 mm Hispano Mk.V cannons mounted in rear bomb bay (500 rounds/gun), or 2 0.30 in (7.62 mm) machine gun pods
• Rockets: 2 unguided rocket pods with 37 2-inch (51 mm) rockets, or 2 Matra rocket pods with 18 SNEB 68 mm rockets each
• Bombs: Total of 8,000 lb (3,628 kg) of payload can be mounted inside the internal bomb bay and on two underwing hardpoints, with the ability to carry a variety of bombs. Typically, the internal bomb bay can hold up to 9 500 lb (227 kg) bombs, or 6 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs, or 1 4,000 lb (1,814 kg) bomb; while the pylons can hold 4 500 lb (227 kg) bombs, or 2 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs.

 

 

Martin B-57B Canberra

 

 

 

Whilst the B-57A was essentially a licence built clone of the Canberra B2, the B-57B was a massive step away from the bombers RAF counterpart. The B-57A was held from front line operation and the B-57B model conceived as a result. Some of the new features included:

 

> Wing air-brakes removed and re-located to the fuselage

> A tandem cockpit arrangement that allowed the crew to be reduced from 3 to 2

> Revolving bomb bay to reduce drag

> Multiple wing hard-points added for external capability's and strengthened wings

> Wing mounted armament: 8 x 12.7mm Browning machine guns, later changed to 4 x 20mm M39 Cannons

 

 

Martin B-57B Canberra Specifications:

• Crew: 2 (pilot,navigator )
• Length: 65 ft, 6 in (20.0 m)
• Wingspan: 64 ft 0 in (19.5 m)
• Height: 14 ft 10 in (4.52 m)
• Wing area: 960 ft² (89 m²)
• Empty weight: 27,090 lb (12,285 kg)
• Loaded weight: 40,345 lb (18,300 kg)
• Max. takeoff weight: 53,720 lb (24,365 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × Wright J65-W-5 turbojets, 7,220 lbf (32.1 kN) each
• *Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0119
• Drag area: 11.45 ft² (1.06 m²)
• Aspect ratio: 4.27

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 0.79 (598 mph, 960 km/h) at 2,500 ft (760 m)
• Cruise speed: 476 mph (414 knots, 765 km/h)
• Stall speed: 124 mph (108 knots, 200 km/h)
• Combat radius: 950 mi (825 nm, 1,530 km) with 5,250 lb (2,380 kg) of bombs
• Ferry range: 2,720 mi (2,360 nm, 4,380 km)
• Service ceiling: 45,100 ft (13,745 m)
• Rate of climb: 6,180 ft/min (31.4 m/s)
• Wing loading: 42 lb/ft² (205 kg/m²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.36
• Lift-to-drag ratio: 15.0

Armament

• Guns: 4× 20 mm (0.787 in) M39 cannon, 290 rounds/gun
• Bombs: 4,500 lb (2,000 kg) in bomb bay
  • 2,800 lb (1,300 kg) on four external hardpoints, including unguided rockets

[Guest]

The more the merrier! 

[P51VoxeITanker 223]

They go waaay too fast, and run the whole game to win on tickets

[Gow 672]

well it would give the higher jets somthing else to go after and it would provide some interesting gameplay if some players flied in formation and gunshiped it to the targets 

[AtlasWH 4,834]

as long as they would be tiered appropriately (8.7/9.0) these aircraft would bring more variety in end tier V battles, which at the moment basicly comes down to fighter versus fighter 24/7.

i'm all for these!  :salute:

Edited October 13, 2014 by AtlasWH

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

They go waaay too fast, and run the whole game to win on tickets

 

As i said on point 2:

 

The existing Canberra B2 and B-57A could be moved up to the early - mid jet BR ranges (Somewhere between 7.3 - 8.0) and the B(I)6 and B-57B would cover the top tier gameplay aspect at 9.0 BR.

 

As such jet bombers would fall into three catagorys:

 

WW2 era:

- Ar 234

- R2Y2

 

Early jet - Korea:

- Canberra B2

- B-57A

 

Korea:

- Canberra B (I)6

- B-57B

[monkeyboy21714 2,620]

To be honest I would want the b6 too. Just like a b2 but with more bombs and better performance but no guns so the br doesn't have to be very high, 7.3 maybe?

Edited October 12, 2014 by monkeyboy21714

[uzl2s 145]

YES.

[_Hydr4_ 715]

As i said on point 2:

 

The existing Canberra B2 and B-57A could be moved up to the early - mid jet BR ranges (Somewhere between 7.3 - 8.0) and the B(I)6 and B-57B would cover the top tier gameplay aspect at 9.0 BR.

 

As such jet bombers would fall into three catagorys:

 

WW2 era:

- Ar 234

- R2Y2

 

Early jet - Korea:

- Canberra B2

- B-57A

 

Korea:

- Canberra B (I)6

- B-57B

I would like to add that the B-57B also could change the 4 M39s for 8 12.7mm MGs

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

I would like to add that the B-57B also could change the 4 M39s for 8 12.7mm MGs

 

 

 

> Wing mounted armament: 8 x 12.7mm Browning machine guns, later changed to 4 x 20mm M39 Cannons

 

 

:salute:

[JShaw119 552]

Wait what 9.0BR for an aircraft that can only go 580 - 598 MPH when the other aircraft at 9.0BR go 695 MPH that's a little bit high 8.0 BR no higher than that.

 

And no to moving Canberra B2 or B-57A up to a higher BR with out its speed as an defense whats the point of using it at the moment you can only kill to mini bases in RB with it.

 

On a side note the B-57 is a little to fast for 6.7BR for maybe move it to 7.0BR so one of the UK jets can catch it because the meteor dose struggle the venom will be okay with it.

[Zesphr 4,978]

Only if they add the Mosquito bomber variant with them (Or even better before!  :lol: )

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

Wait what 9.0BR for an aircraft that can only go 580 - 598 MPH when the other aircraft at 9.0BR go 695 MPH that's a little bit high 8.0 BR no higher than that.

 

And no to moving Canberra B2 or B-57A up to a higher BR with out its speed as an defense whats the point of using it at the moment you can only kill to mini bases in RB with it.

 

On a side note the B-57 is a little to fast for 6.7BR for maybe move it to 7.0BR so one of the UK jets can catch it because the meteor dose struggle the venom will be okay with it.

 

The idea is that these aircraft intentionally face Sabres/MiGs and CL-13s. They are more than capable of operating effectively at that tier, same as the IL-28.

 

9.0 is fair for both the B(I)6 and B-57B.

[KB_TheDireWolf 700]

GIVE ME!!!!!!!!!

[_Hydr4_ 715]

:salute:

That wasn't there the first time!

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

That wasn't there the first time!

 

It was mate, I spent a fair few hours researching and writing it all :)

[JShaw119 552]

The idea is that these aircraft intentionally face Sabres/MiGs and CL-13s. They are more than capable of operating effectively at that tier, same as the IL-28.

 

9.0 is fair for both the B(I)6 and B-57B.

 

There would no point of using them yeah sure they are a little faster and yes you have a little bit more bang for your buck and along with some nice 20mm but!

 

Canberra B(I)6 will be facing with it's top speed of 580 mph

 

USA

• The Lovely F-85F-2 and 25 with it's top speed of 695 MPH
•  And may also join in the fun the F-86A-5 to 652MPH

Germans

• CL-13A 695 MPH 
• MIG-15bis 699 MPH
• Maybe a Me 262

USSR

• MiG-15 at 652 MPH
• MiG-15bis at 669 MPH
• La-15 at 635 MPH

Japan

• F-86F-30 at 695 MPH

 

And now for the B-57B with its top seed of 598 mph

 

UK

• Will be no problem for the B-57B as the F.8 only has a top speed of  586 MPH
• Venom FB.4 at 640MPH (only if MM is drunk) 

Germans

• CL-13A 695 MPH 
• MIG-15bis 699 MPH
• Maybe a Me 262

USSR

• MiG-15 at 652 MPH
• MiG-15bis at 669 MPH
• La-15 at 635 MPH

Japan

• F-86F-30 at 695 MPH

 

You would basically only fly this if you have too much money and you want to lose some.

Edited October 12, 2014 by JShaw119

[Crag_r 8,620]

Their timeline is a little problematic. By the time these aircraft were first flying let alone in service there could be a whole multitude of new fighters added. It seems a little odd to break the timeline by such an extent for these aircraft but not or fighters or any other nations.

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

Their timeline is a little problematic. By the time these aircraft were first flying let alone in service there could be a whole multitude of new fighters added. It seems a little odd to break the timeline by such an extent for these aircraft but not or fighters or any other nations.

 

"B(I)6 model Canberras were operated from July of 1953 only by 213 Squadron from RAF bases in Germany. 22 aircraft were produced of this model."

 

B-57B is 54 admittedly.

[Valkyrian0 2,245]

Mk.(I)6 could be the British tier 5 attacker

+1 either way

[Guest]

Hey, this is sort of off topic, but where are the Q&As located? Haven't been able to find them.

[Crag_r 8,620]

"B(I)6 model Canberras were operated from July of 1953 only by 213 Squadron from RAF bases in Germany. 22 aircraft were produced of this model."[/size]
 
B-57B is 54 admittedly.[/size]

213 SQN was not operational at the time? What's the source on that?

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

213 SQN was not operational at the time? What's the source on that?

 

http://www.bywat.co.uk/canframes.html

[Awooooooo 22]

I like the idea. I think there definitely needs to be more variety of planes at the top tier.

 

The ground attack game is non existent and it basically only comes down to fighter fights. Boring as heck for me as I primarily fly bombers and attackers.

[Warhead212121 114]

They should keep all the canberra at a br of 7.6. Currently turning at 800km is a nightmare as pulling even a couple if gs will break your wings off and the plane is no really good enough to send against the mig 15 and cl-13.