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MBT-70/Kampfpanzer-70


Tank50us
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My hypothesis for the mediocre penetration is that, as described, it is a HEAT-T-MP.... Multi-Purpose....

 

 

It's probably one of those things that was designed to be a go-between of the HE and HEAT rounds, and they ended up with something that, surprise surprise, excelled at neither.

 

Nah, the blast radius of M409 HEAT-MP was pretty damn good.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yep. it's either this or the Keiler, and this is more reasonable if you consider the missiles and stuff we have now. So, yeah. 

 

An estimated 450-500mm penetration with APFSDS is not what I'd consider reasonable.

Edited by Nope
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An estimated 450-500mm penetration with APFSDS is not what I'd consider reasonable.

add to that it effective when striking sloped armor and even T-72 armor don't have any chance... so we back to HEAT-FS meta were armor don't pays bigger role...

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An estimated 450-500mm penetration with APFSDS is not what I'd consider reasonable.

 

The missiles that are on the raketenjagdpanzer also pen 600mm, your point?

 

 

add to that it effective when striking sloped armor and even T-72 armor don't have any chance... so we back to HEAT-FS meta were armor don't pays bigger role...

 

Then remove the bloody APDSFDS or whatever, it's already got missiles and that's enough, basically a bigger, heavier sheridan.

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The missiles that are on the raketenjagdpanzer also pen 600mm, your point?

 

 

 

Then remove the bloody APDSFDS or whatever, it's already got missiles and that's enough, basically a bigger, heavier sheridan.

that's about keller 120mm DM-13, not 152mm APFSDS with is weaker.

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that's about keller 120mm DM-13, not 152mm APFSDS with is weaker.

 

Oh, well did say the Keiler's not really that viable of an option, i'd nickname it superleopard. Actually with spaced armor inside, missiles and HEATFS are actually kind of fucked.

Ech, then again the 70 also has spaced armor, and plenty more of it. Gun is weaker though, and honestly that just makes it a somewhat better fit. I even know how the hydropneumatic suspension could work. Effectively the same way as aiming. Drive up a hill, point gun, tank auto lowers in that direction. Other than that though, derp shells and missiles sound fine. 

If anything this thing's armor should place it after the maus, that and it's a non-fielded prototype, by which i mean it never fought wars. Same with the maus and 10.5 tiger. Sure, they exist, but they haven't fought.

 

I'll cut the rambling though, the Keiler isn't really a good choice, even with the thin armor. If it's driven like a light tank then it'd be pretty damn hard to win against a team of Boarspam.

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Oh, well did say the Keiler's not really that viable of an option, i'd nickname it superleopard. Actually with spaced armor inside, missiles and HEATFS are actually kind of *****.

Ech, then again the 70 also has spaced armor, and plenty more of it. Gun is weaker though, and honestly that just makes it a somewhat better fit. I even know how the hydropneumatic suspension could work. Effectively the same way as aiming. Drive up a hill, point gun, tank auto lowers in that direction. Other than that though, derp shells and missiles sound fine. 

If anything this thing's armor should place it after the maus, that and it's a non-fielded prototype, by which i mean it never fought wars. Same with the maus and 10.5 tiger. Sure, they exist, but they haven't fought.

 

I'll cut the rambling though, the Keiler isn't really a good choice, even with the thin armor. If it's driven like a light tank then it'd be pretty damn hard to win against a team of Boarspam.

i know i know, i just saw Keller above.

 

about that:

|I'll cut the rambling though, the Keiler isn't really a good choice, even with the thin armor. If it's driven like a light tank then it'd be pretty damn hard to win against a team of Boarspam."

 

you have 120mm gun firing DM-13 APFSDS filing at ~1500m/s with have enough penetration that armor would be worth nothing no matter that it would be Maus, E-100, M103, M60A1, T-10M, T55, T62, T64 or T72, they all would be easily penetrated by DM-13...

and compared to ATGM it don't have low velocity.

Edited by arczer25
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i know i know, i just saw Keller above.

 

about that:

|I'll cut the rambling though, the Keiler isn't really a good choice, even with the thin armor. If it's driven like a light tank then it'd be pretty damn hard to win against a team of Boarspam."

 

you have 120mm gun firing DM-13 APFSDS filing at ~1500m/s with have enough penetration that armor would be worth nothing no matter that it would be Maus, E-100, M103, M60A1, T-10M, T55, T62, T64 or T72, they all would be easily penetrated by DM-13...

and compared to ATGM it don't have low velocity.

 

What I'm wondering is that did it actually have the DM13 round? I find it hard to believe they had that design and took them so long to integrate it into their 105 mm ammunition. I'm starting to think it had a worse round than the DM13 in the early 70's and developed the DM13 later. 

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What I'm wondering is that did it actually have the DM13 round? I find it hard to believe they had that design and took them so long to integrate it into their 105 mm ammunition. I'm starting to think it had a worse round than the DM13 in the early 70's and developed the DM13 later. 

DM-13 is oldest 120mm ammo and appeared with the same time as normal 120mm with suggest that they were developed at the same time.

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DM-13 is oldest 120mm ammo and appeared with the same time as normal 120mm with suggest that they were developed at the same time.

 

That's serviced munitions and dates though. How would it take them, what? Fifteen-ish years to reflect any ammunition improvement to domestically produced L7 ammunition? It just throws up a lot of red flags. 

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That's serviced munitions and dates though. How would it take them, what? Fifteen-ish years to reflect any ammunition improvement to domestically produced L7 ammunition? It just throws up a lot of red flags. 

120mm L44 production stated in ~1974 along with DM-13.

one last thing 105mm L7 is rifled gun, while 120mm smoothbore DM-13 is stated to be "The DM 13 was the first developed in Germany armor-piercing ammunition for smoothbore cannons"

Edited by arczer25
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120mm L44 production stated in ~1974 along with DM-13.

one last thing 105mm L7 is rifled gun, while 120mm smoothbore DM-13 is stated to be "The DM 13 was the first developed in Germany armor-piercing ammunition for smoothbore cannons"

 

k. So the Keiler didn't have the DM13? So what the xxxx did it have? That's why I was doubting these claims of penetration values (for the Keiler). Also, round designs between the L7 and the 120 directly influenced each other is why I was asking why it took them so long for any 120 mm advancement to reflect in the 105 mm. 

Edited by Choogleblitz
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k. So the Keiler didn't have the DM13. So what the xxxx did it have? That's why I was doubting these claims of penetration values. Also, round designs between the L7 and the 120 directly influenced each other is why I was asking why it took them so long for any 120 mm advancement to reflect in the 105 mm. 

Keiler had development version of 120mm along with was developed DM13 so: Keiler didn't had the DM13 it had development version of DM13.

i know that gap between 120mm and 105mm is strange.

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What I'm wondering is that did it actually have the DM13 round? I find it hard to believe they had that design and took them so long to integrate it into their 105 mm ammunition. I'm starting to think it had a worse round than the DM13 in the early 70's and developed the DM13 later. 

not entirely, the IT-1 has an IRRITATINGLY fast missile. it's more like an aircraft rocket, and we're still irritated about being rocketed.

 

and yeah,i do have to say that maybe the velocity woudl be eugh. The 70 really is the only alternative option, that or a T-55. IF the pershings are enough of a joke that a maus, the tank with the worst gun at it's tier, and a sturer emil, can frontally pen it, then i don't want it.

Unless you mean those weird combination upgrades to them that made them look almost like an M60. 

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not entirely, the IT-1 has an IRRITATINGLY fast missile. it's more like an aircraft rocket, and we're still irritated about being rocketed.

 

and yeah,i do have to say that maybe the velocity woudl be eugh. The 70 really is the only alternative option, that or a T-55. IF the pershings are enough of a joke that a maus, the tank with the worst gun at it's tier, and a sturer emil, can frontally pen it, then i don't want it.

Unless you mean those weird combination upgrades to them that made them look almost like an M60. 

 

Nah, from what I've heard the missiles are too agile compared to real life. They all act like Swingfire missiles or something, and you know how agile those things are compared to Shillelaghs and stuff.

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not entirely, the IT-1 has an IRRITATINGLY fast missile. it's more like an aircraft rocket, and we're still irritated about being rocketed.

 

and yeah,i do have to say that maybe the velocity woudl be eugh. The 70 really is the only alternative option, that or a T-55. IF the pershings are enough of a joke that a maus, the tank with the worst gun at it's tier, and a sturer emil, can frontally pen it, then i don't want it.

Unless you mean those weird combination upgrades to them that made them look almost like an M60. 

 

Uhhh. Have you fought the Sheridan? IT-1's missile ain't shit compared to that. 

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we are going off topic, and the mods arent really caring abt this amazing tak that could hel give the german and usa tree, maybe, and edge back against russia's is3s and sloped tanks. i really wwant to see this tank implemeed tho

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we are going off topic, and the mods arent really caring abt this amazing tak that could hel give the german and usa tree, maybe, and edge back against russia's is3s and sloped tanks. i really wwant to see this tank implemeed tho

 

Then you're going to see T-64As using 3BM-15 to counter the MBT-70. Do remember that the APFSDS the T-62 would use in-game is steel APFSDS while 3BM-15 has a tungsten penetrator. Saying that the MBT-70 is required to counter T-10s and T-62s is like saying that you should receive shipments of plutonium in order to take care of a termite mound. It's just plain overkill.

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-nvm, wrong me-

 

EDIT: actually to say something, I'd like to answer to those saying we need this to counter this to counter that blahblah. Why can't we just have a tank because it looks cool/good and as proved is not too far fetched?

 

Plus, most of the considerations happen thinking of a real life situation in mind, ingame the battlefield is smaller, combat is faster, sneakier etc. etc. Same way Heavy tanks in lower ranks are dealt with will be used to deal with this one, if needed; i.e. flanking, swarming, "weakspots" that will ofc appear once the armour will be laid out... It's always like this, for every new tank that gets added, so we must keep these in mind when judging its performance.

 

And if this is ever implemented, the BRs should be raised too to match the planes at 9.0. This way it (and other tanks, to relieve the current T4-5 situation, once more variants of currently-ingame-tanks [leopards, M60s, etc. AND maybe other nations too like France and Japan] are added) doesn't fight with too outperformed opponents.

 

Just my thoughts, I hope they seem reasonable, and if it you couldn't say already, I support this suggestion :)

Edited by GreenAid
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EDIT: actually to say something, I'd like to answer to those saying we need this to counter this to counter that blahblah. Why can't we just have a tank because it looks cool/good and as proved is not too far fetched?

 

Because balance is a thing.

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