Tanks/Vehicles M.G. 151/15 und M.G. 151/20 "Drilling" auf m. S.P.W. (Sd Kfz. 251/21)

[RefrigerRaider 563]

You don't actually think people want heavy AA against planes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And gib, I want that

Theres a reason why a flak 88 may not be necessary because of its ineffectiveness against low altitude planes, especially fighters.

 

Here are the following reasons:

 

1. Imagine yourself in a Tiger tank and picture a fast car driving around you in circles at very close distance. Your super slow turret rotation speed will never be able to catch up to the car. Now picture the car driving in circles at a very far distance from the tiger but moving at same speed, this time the turret is fast enough to catch up to the car. now imagine that the tiger is the flak88 AA and the car a plane. you know the comparison. The flak88 has an effective ceiling of 7,620 m (25,000 ft) and a maximum ceiling of 11,900 m (39,000 ft). The problem is in warthunder planes RARELY engage at such elevations if ever. Most engagements happen at very low to medium elevations, making a heavy AA like a flak88 unsuitable to use since because they are too slow shoot at low altitude planes. their primary purpose was to tackle very very high flying bombers. First. bombers are slow, big and not very agile, due to this, they cant evade a shot easily. The high explosive power of the heavy AA meant that a direct hit was not necessary to do major damage, a proximal explosion can cause damage to a planes external superstructure.

 

2. From personal experiences I've used the WirbelWind extensively in custom matches where players can play both air and ground. I scored dozens of kills on many planes including jets in several matches. All those flying players rarely ever fly up to 6000m. Just 1-4 hits from a 20mm cannon using HEFI-T belt is able to down even bombers and do catastrophic damage. More than 50% of my kills were set on fire. With over a hundred rounds in one round of firing, this ensures that I have more opportunities to hit and not miss.

 

3. This super fast traverse rate ensures that even at close range a small AA can reach close flying fast planes

 

4. If you shoot a flak 88 and miss, youll have to reload very often, making you very vulnerable

[NutellaArmor 240]

Oh man oh man oh man I want this!!!!! +1 :salute:

 

I love halftracks!

[Hopit 4,416]

Theres a reason why a flak 88 may not be necessary because of its ineffectiveness against low altitude planes, especially fighters.

 

Here are the following reasons:

 

1. Imagine yourself in a Tiger tank and picture a fast car driving around you in circles at very close distance. Your super slow turret rotation speed will never be able to catch up to the car. Now picture the car driving in circles at a very far distance from the tiger but moving at same speed, this time the turret is fast enough to catch up to the car. now imagine that the tiger is the flak88 AA and the car a plane. you know the comparison. The flak88 has an effective ceiling of 7,620 m (25,000 ft) and a maximum ceiling of 11,900 m (39,000 ft). The problem is in warthunder planes RARELY engage at such elevations if ever. Most engagements happen at very low to medium elevations, making a heavy AA like a flak88 unsuitable to use since because they are too slow shoot at low altitude planes. their primary purpose was to tackle very very high flying bombers. First. bombers are slow, big and not very agile, due to this, they cant evade a shot easily. The high explosive power of the heavy AA meant that a direct hit was not necessary to do major damage, a proximal explosion can cause damage to a planes external superstructure.

 

2. From personal experiences I've used the WirbelWind extensively in custom matches where players can play both air and ground. I scored dozens of kills on many planes including jets in several matches. All those flying players rarely ever fly up to 6000m. Just 1-4 hits from a 20mm cannon using HEFI-T belt is able to down even bombers and do catastrophic damage. More than 50% of my kills were set on fire. With over a hundred rounds in one round of firing, this ensures that I have more opportunities to hit and not miss.

 

3. This super fast traverse rate ensures that even at close range a small AA can reach close flying fast planes

 

4. If you shoot a flak 88 and miss, youll have to reload very often, making you very vulnerable

I think you didn't understand what I said

[sollitdude 734]

would this spaag be usable as a tank hunter?

[RefrigerRaider 563]

would this spaag be usable as a tank hunter?

A 20mm gun is not effective for use against armor

Edited March 23, 2015 by RefrigerRaider

[Major_Shaker 2,633]

I did not even know such vehicle existed. I would love to see German Half-track SPAA in the game! It looks goerges. ;)s

 

GIB :yes:

[zuegma 1,546]

would this spaag be usable as a tank hunter?

 

To answer your question here are some Penetration tables for the armour piercing ammo for both the guns.

 

15mm AP-T

[spoiler][/spoiler]

15mm HVAP (I think, it has a hardened core)

[spoiler][/spoiler]

20mm APHE

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[sollitdude 734]

hvap = high velocity armor piercing.

 

Armour-piercing, composite rigid (APCR) is a British term, the US term for the design is high velocity armor piercing (HVAP) and German, Hartkernmunition. (hard core ammunition)

 

basically, its just apcr.

Edited March 23, 2015 by sollitdude

[zuegma 1,546]

hvap = high velocity armor piercing.

 

Armour-piercing, composite rigid (APCR) is a British term, the US term for the design is high velocity armor piercing (HVAP) and German, Hartkernmunition. (hard core ammunition)

 

basically, its just apcr.

 Yeah I was just thinking how to title it.

 

The thing is I don't think this ammo is the the game yet with the 15mm 151's as there is just AP-T and API(c).

[mistomaxo 446]

would this spaag be usable as a tank hunter?

against light tanks and the side armor of some mediums, maybe. unless these 20mms are more powerful than the ones found on the wirbelwind

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion moved to Further discussion. 

[RefrigerRaider 563]

Suggestion moved to Further discussion. 

whats the purpose of Further Discussion section? Does it mean my thread has succeeded its first round of decision?

[mistomaxo 446]

further discussion is a mystery to us all. maybe its a place to "keep the good ones till theyre implemented"

 

do all of these use a mix of the 15mm and 20mm guns? is the center one 15 and the outer one 20s, or vice versa? were there some with all 15mm and some with all 20mm? if the performance change between the guns isnt too huge, perhaps it could be implemented like how the kikka can earn its second gun, rather than having to make 15mm and 20mm versions of this thing wholly separate machines

Edited March 24, 2015 by mistomaxo

[RefrigerRaider 563]

further discussion is a mystery to us all. maybe its a place to "keep the good ones till theyre implemented"

 

do all of these use a mix of the 15mm and 20mm guns? is the center one 15 and the outer one 20s, or vice versa? were there some with all 15mm and some with all 20mm? if the performance change between the guns isnt too huge, perhaps it could be implemented like how the kikka can earn its second gun, rather than having to make 15mm and 20mm versions of this thing wholly separate machines

Putting the thread here just kills the popularity. No one comes to the further discussion section. Also, no, its either all 15mm or all 20mm, no mix. Its a tri mount and its always standard to have 3 guns. but we can discuss the idea where its a unlockible feature to replace all 15mm for the 20mm in modifications.

[samb 63]

Iam a fan od SPAA so i cant resist.

GIB NOAW

[GoldenPenguin 16]

Yes, we need this!

[RefrigerRaider 563]

Iam a fan od SPAA so i cant resist.

GIB NOAW

I GIB TOO! (although i already did since i started this)

[zuegma 1,546]

further discussion is a mystery to us all. maybe its a place to "keep the good ones till theyre implemented"

 

do all of these use a mix of the 15mm and 20mm guns? is the center one 15 and the outer one 20s, or vice versa? were there some with all 15mm and some with all 20mm? if the performance change between the guns isnt too huge, perhaps it could be implemented like how the kikka can earn its second gun, rather than having to make 15mm and 20mm versions of this thing wholly separate machines

 I think the difference in AA performance would mean that they would be separate vehicles with different BR's, unless there was a change in the BR system that would account for different weapons installations.

[Deathbringer007 118]

+1

[DavidXD 1,355]

Yes ! I support !

[RefrigerRaider 563]

Yes ! I support !

dont forget to like

[Jan_Gustl_WT 1,746]

Shut up and take my money! I will seen it in the game as a spaa.

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

Suggestion passed to developers   :salute:

[leroyonly 4,311]

As the SdKfz 251/21 in 15mm form has been added as per update 2.3 Hot Tracks,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.