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The Kampfpanzer 70 (MBT 70) as new german and american medium Tank


The Kampfpanzer 70 (Kfz.70)  

306 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want this Tank in-game?

    • Yes
      248
    • No (comment why)
      58
  2. 2. Would this Tank require the expansion of the battle ratings to e.g 10.0?

    • Yes
      185
    • No (That means that it fits into current Tier V
      121
  3. 3. Would you still want this Tank even when its addition clears the path or more Vehicles such as T-62, T-72, M60 (late versions), Leopard (late versions)

    • Yes!
      206
    • No
      55
    • Only add the Kpz.70, nothing else
      45


As Germany's Ground Forces currently have no equal medium tank to the T-54, the Kampfpanzer 70 would be a great thing, maybe after the Leo 1, which has very thin armour. But back to the MBT 70:

 

The MBT 70 was a German-US joint project to develop a new Main Battle Tank, which was to be equipped with some advanced features, like; the entire crew is located in the large turret, and the gun ( a 152mm or a 120mm Gun) was able to shoot normal ammunition, or even the Shillelagh Missile, which i think is a great thing to be implemented, (->T34 Calliope). It's exact armour thicknesses are unknown to me but i know that it had a lot of spaced armour on the Hull and Front Turret. It had a maximum speed of 69 km/h, its engines ( yes, the US had two versions of engines, so did Germany):   DE: Daimler-Benz/MTU MB 873 Ka-500

                    US: Continental AVCR-1100 V12
                    DE: 1100 kW (1500 PS)
                    US: 1080 kW (1470 PS)

Here's some basic Data: (from Wikipedia, because i couldn't find any books about this Tank

 

Weight 50.4 tonnes (49.6 long tons; 55.6 short tons)[1] Length 9.1 metres (29 ft 10 in) Width 3.51 metres (11 ft 6 in) Height 1.99 to 2.59 m (6 ft 6 in to 8 ft 6 in) Crew 3 Armor spaced armor
Main
armament
152mm XM150E5 (MBT-70)
120mm gun (KPz-70)
Secondary
armament
20mm cannon
7.62mm machine gun Engine 1,500 horsepower (1,100 kW). Transmission Renk HSWL354 Suspension hydropneumatic Fuel capacity 1300 litres (343 gallons)
Operational
range
644 km (400 miles) Speed 69 km/h (43 mph)

 

  Its development began in the very early 1960's and ended in 1969/71 because its production cost was too high. 

  Although only 14 very produced, this Tank is the "grandfather" of today's Main Battle Tanks. 

It would be very interesting to see in-game. 

 

 

Sources: http://www.panzertruppe.de/Fahrzeuge/KPZ70/body_kpz70.html

               http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBT-70

 

EDIT: Finally added a poll!

Edited by Panzerzwerg
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  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion.  :salute:

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This thing would roflstomp anything we have ingame.

 

The Leopard 1 is still on its way afaik, there is no need for anything better than that.

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It is a tank from the freaking 60's.

If added it should fight T-62 and T-64.

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SOOOOOO OTF its not even funny. Like a decade past the already stretched ground vehicle timeline. Might as well include T-64, T-72 since those are 1960s tech  :facepalm:

Id rather see the E-25/50/75/100 series as a more plausible atomic age era than mid cold war development such as this.

Edited by icehawk223
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It actually had a combination of hard and milder steel from what I could tell, but that combination still negates HEAT either way. Still has 190mm combined thickness plate sloped at 60 degrees from vertical. This wouldn't be as bad except that even mid 1960s L7 APDS couldn't smack it frontally.

 

The APFSDS fired could penetrate 250mm of RHA at 2 km. This is on the same level as the 125mm smoothbore's steel APFSDS, and all things considered the latter can penetrate 340-377mm at point-blank through extrapolation implying both follow the same ballistic coefficient. However, the penetrator is made of tungsten. Possibly even capped since we are at the era where L-52 APDS became quite popular. The gun ironically can fit in some odd disturbing way. I know, nuts right? It just won't use ATGMs. The 120mm won't ever get in though as it's too good. Only the 152mm.

 

However, here's the deal breaker along with armor: Mobility. The MBT-70 is fast. No, actually it's VERY fast. This will have enough mobility to make the Leopard 1 feel sluggish. The armor is also very strong, being practically above Maus tier. So you have a tank with better armor than the Maus, higher mobility than practically anything in the game that also sports one of the potentially deadliest guns in the game. This is one of those things that make me wonder if you even did your research properly.

Edited by Nope
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It's difficult to find a decent Medium Tank for Germany as the first new original German tanks came in the early 60's. Another possibility would be paper tanks from WW2, but honestly, i'm kinda sick of big and slow monsters like the Maus. I'm searching for an equivalent to the T-54. And Tanks like the M47 and T-54 for Germany aren't very special. The leopard 1 is a very good idea, but even a T-34-85 could destroy it easily. 

 

There are so many possibilities, like a Tier VI etc, but this is about the MBT 70. Ist actual performance is unknown, but if it would be too strong against T-54 and IS-4M (i honestly don't think so, due to the new Ammunition they got), then, the T-55 is still an option too. 

 

However, i know that the MBT 70 would have better armour than the Maus, higher mobility than practically anything in the game and sports one of the potentially deadliest guns in the game, but as i mentioned before, there are still many possibilities, like a Tier VI for Vehicles from the early Cold War (1950's to 1970's). I don't know. Do not blame me, this is just a suggestion. 

Edited by Panzerzwerg
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It's difficult to find a decent Medium Tank for Germany as the first new original German tanks came in the early 60's. Another possibility would be paper tanks from WW2, but honestly, i'm kinda sick of big and slow monsters like the Maus. I'm searching for an equivalent to the T-54. And Tanks like the M47 and T-54 for Germany aren't very special. The leopard 1 is a very good idea, but even a T-34-85 could destroy it easily. 

 

There are so many possibilities, like a Tier VI etc, but this is about the MBT 70. Ist actual performance is unknown, but if it would be too strong against T-54 and IS-4M (i honestly don't think so, due to the new Ammunition they got), then, the T-55 is still an option too. 

 

The armor layout can make even 400mm HEAT penetration a bit iffy actually. Plus the Leopard 1 is actually what Germany needs. You're suggesting this partially out of fear that it can get penetrated by a T-34-85? It won't if the round is APCBC. The UFP isn't that weak you know. Its strength even lies in the mobility (definitely craps on the Patton and T-54) and the ammunition it receives. It will be fine. You don't need the MBT-70. It's pure overkill.

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This was already suggested here:

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/206271-mbt-70kamphpanzer-70/

 

And here:

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/212110-mbt-70-cancelled-prototype-replacement-for-the-m60a1/?hl=mbt

 

For both US and Germany so the discussion has been thought through.

 

That said I'm not sure that this would be good to fit into the game, as you would invite things like the IS-7 which was ahead of its time.

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I wonder how a vehicle with that insane steel armor could be just 50 tons and more mobile than Leo-1 8/s

 

the 1,500 hp engine kinda explains it

I wouldn't want to be near that thing at full throttle without a gas mask

 

Maybe after we get the promised early MBTs ( if they feel balanced ofc.) we can eventually get this too.

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If Germany lacks tanks to fight the many USSR machines to be brought in then yes please. Fast modern machines are fun and we dont want to lose too many players to AW where tanks are dashing all over the place I find.

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This makes thread 3 suggesting the mbt 70. How many more of these nonsense suggestions must we suffer through? Can't this individual just post in support of the other two threads. Yet again another suggestion from a player whose highest tier tank is tier 4 has played less than 30 games in the last month and is now recommending a tank that would completely change the dynamic of the game. This is just silly. 

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/212110-mbt-70-cancelled-prototype-replacement-for-the-m60a1/

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/206271-mbt-70kamphpanzer-70/

 

With that said absolutely not. Why not savor the only MMO mostly WWII tank game that exists? Lets enjoy this game for what it is instead of trying to turn it into games the vast majority of the ground force players left. There are already games to play prototypes and the like. Enough of us are already irritated enough by needing to fight post war tanks with WWII tanks. Now you really want to have to be irritated by fighting the forerunners (prototypes not even actual production tanks) to modern MBTs.  WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT IN THIS GAME????????? This game is actually fun as is. I'd be happy if they cancelled the Leopard/M48/T62 nonsense. 

 

Guess what Armored Warfare is now out. If you want to play modern tanks now you can. Its actually a reasonably fun game and it already has an MBT 70 in it. Lets keep this game as close to an actual WWII/Early Cold war game as possible. 

Edited by galen503
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This game its about WW2 and Korea War, so if this tanks never take part on korea war it can't be on WT

T-62, Leo 1 and M60 already confirmed fella...

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