new player protection please...this should not be possible

[Shanina 1,735]

Hello guys and Gaijin.

 

I posted about this before, but I really...really think this is a big issue.

 

I post this in AB planes now, because I like to hear what you guys think of this. Afterall....it happens in AB and I think it's horrible!

 

So...when I have to spade a (new) era I plane...I do that, but I find it lame to see what the new guys have to deal with.

Now working on some forgotten or newish (not sure) Japanese planes...both Era I, both br 2.0. The Ki-44 planes.

I made a clean br 2.0 line with 2x br 1.7 and 4x br 2.0 planes to get it done. Played a whole bunch of games and it was enjoyable, until the last one.

Was a br 1.0 to 2.0 game with 90% starter sputtering biplanes. And here I come with my Ki-45ko to start with.

 

Didn't even try hard, but I slaughtered 14 enemy planes and 10 ground targets without dying. (some here might even say that's bad) 

Me and my 5700 games played, 2 1/2 years experience, great crews against those poor new guys.

 

This shouldn't be possible...it's not nice for new guys and I don't think it's good for the game for several reasons.

 

1. people might quit when this happens to them a few times. These guys are our future and Gaijin's bread and butter.

2. people will jump in bigger planes way too soon, but that's not helping them at all.

3. it's a seal clubber fest for people who think this is fun.

4. Borked br makes it even worse...some planes (Ki45ko, but also the 110 and many more) are way under tiered imho)

 

I didn't enjoy it and I think stuff like this should not happen. Yes, we all been there, but when I joined few had much experience, so it's worse now I spose.

 

The WTPC is a dead duck now, so posting there does nothing (I mentioned it there long time ago though) and I posted about it elsewhere, but no Gaijin response.

 

So maybe we can talk about it here. It doesn't affect most of us directly, but it does in the long run.

 

Your thoughts please  :)s

 

 

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

We both have said the same thing before but gaijin is not interested in fixing that...I cannot imagine that it would be so hard to wall off 1.3's and reserves so they only face each other...Anything higher in the lineup and you go to the general pool of slaughter...It would not stop those experienced pilots who want to fly bi planes but it would stop the clubbers who bring 3-34's, E-4's, BB-1's, etc into bi plane matches...But gaijin seems to be completely resistant to anything that might make sense from a player's point of view...Guess their reasoning is that if someone quits so what, there are more out there...

 

Personally, I did not have to face things like that when I first started...It was frustrating enough to try and hit anything besides the ground at that point...If I was facing mid war planes in my sporty fat bottomed P-26 I probably would have just deleted the game...I cannot imagine starting from scratch now..

.

The broken BR is a whole other universe...Bf 110 has significant firepower compared to the bi planes, but any fighter above BR 1.7-2.0 can own it if they know how to turn and don't camp 4ft behind the tail...Ki-45 is much better than the 110, but still really has no chance against a 2.0 or higher fighter...Fat Willie, my P-47D-28 ate 3 of them in a match and thought they were very tasty...

 

I still think a queue that only allows reserves and 1.3 would be the way to go as far as protecting the newts from quitting out of frustration in a day...

 

Like my bomber...http://i.imgur.com/HB70XV0.jpg

[_VANDAL_ 42]

We both have said the same thing before but gaijin is not interested in fixing that...I cannot imagine that it would be so hard to wall off 1.3's and reserves so they only face each other...Anything higher in the lineup and you go to the general pool of slaughter...It would not stop those experienced pilots who want to fly bi planes but it would stop the clubbers who bring 3-34's, E-4's, BB-1's, etc into bi plane matches...But gaijin seems to be completely resistant to anything that might make sense from a player's point of view...Guess their reasoning is that if someone quits so what, there are more out there...

 

Personally, I did not have to face things like that when I first started...It was frustrating enough to try and hit anything besides the ground at that point...If I was facing mid war planes in my sporty fat bottomed P-26 I probably would have just deleted the game...I cannot imagine starting from scratch now..

.

The broken BR is a whole other universe...Bf 110 has significant firepower compared to the bi planes, but any fighter above BR 1.7-2.0 can own it if they know how to turn and don't camp 4ft behind the tail...Ki-45 is much better than the 110, but still really has no chance against a 2.0 or higher fighter...Fat Willie, my P-47D-28 ate 3 of them in a match and thought they were very tasty...

 

I still think a queue that only allows reserves and 1.3 would be the way to go as far as protecting the newts from quitting out of frustration in a day...

 

Like my bomber...http://i.imgur.com/HB70XV0.jpg

 

 

 I agree.

Once in awhile I'd like to fly just bi-plane vs. Bi-plane.

[MrCrisps 524]

I totally agree with you even though i'm an RB player. I often go to tier I planes because I just love to fly them (especially the MC.200 currently). But I should not be matched against new players with less than 1000 games.

 

Sadly I don't think Gaijin could really do something about it. How could they do that with the little number of players which are playing tier I in RB?

 

I began to play LoL a few days ago and that was just the same. Heck, it was even worse as I was slaughtered by hordes of rerolling players. They were the same level than me but the way they played showed clearly that they weren't beginners... It was atrocious and I simply stopped to play PvP in LoL.

 

But back to WT. I remember that when I started to play (around February 2013), there were not even a MM ! Imagine going against MiG 15s and Sabres with just a Ki-10 or a He-51 !

Edited March 7, 2016 by MrCrisps

[Quasimodo91 3,325]

reserve br 1.0-1.3 needs closed mm protection, never ever to face 2.0-2.3.  or limit this protection upto lvl 15-20. :dntknw:

[Shanina 1,735]

When waiting time is a problem, maybe it's an idea to let new players (reserve planes, max 30 games played or so) play on a new small flat map 5 vs 5 with 5 respawns...no ground targets.

 

Will give them time to get the hang of it...grind modules, research the next planes. Among eachother. 5 vs 5 is perfect for that, no need to let them do 15 vs 15 straight away.

I left out the ground targets, because those are actually bad for them...it will teach them nothing. When they run out of planes they go back to the hangar with a "Well done!" (even when it wasn't that good).

 

Sort of tutorial + 

 

Just an idea....prolly not perfect and I'm sure many can finetune this or think of something different and better.

 

Personally, I did not have to face things like that when I first started

 

I don't remember well what I had to deal with when I started...I was way too busy crashing into mountains and other planes, but I think it was pretty okey back then.

What I remember it was mainly Chaikas eating my he51s, not the cannon fighters, but I might be wrong. I was bad and a very slow learner, so I died a lot...one way or another.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Shanina

[Badballie 1,219]

Far as I know new guys are protected in reserves when they start but that's all, as soon as they unlock a non reserve its over or something. Part of the problem is Gaijin's entire model is a load of stinky. The addition of new planes forces people to come down to unlock and spade them, their BR and MM, also means the higher tiers are deserted and the lower tiers are being seal clubed by the more experienced pilots who can't play at the top tiers because they are also being used as seals.

 

But lets be honest Arcade is becoming more and more Rb with each change and won't even exist in a nearish future, I doubt they will listen to anyone at this point. 

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

This game loses it's players right from the start and they don't seem to do nothing about it but the worst is that it's also losing it's most experienced players at the same time cause they just don't listen.

Three weeks ago I made a suggestion about adding a feature where we could see our line's BR right at the hangar instead of only seeing that in the battle stats after we have started one, when you change one of your vehicles it's the only way in game to check your line's BR but then you can't change it back. Their answer was that there was already a similar suggestion made before and I asked them the link so I could support it, when I clicked the link I found out that it was a suggestion made in 2014 and they still didn't do nothing about it so I just lost my faith on improvements in this game.

Edited March 7, 2016 by *sardinha08

[SHID_MY_JORTS 1,863]

I'm pretty sure new players get put into a "new player" pool for the first 10 ish matches. But even that might be a little low.. Might I add, the first match players play they get improved damage aka oneshotting pretty much every plane you shoot at. A small tactic to make players like the game..

[Enkidu69 1,014]

New player experience is completely horrible now. I just came back after few months and started the UK tanks line. Your 1.0 reserves meet 2.3 tanks in every game. Every single one. It's completely horrible and not fun in any way. If I was a new player who just started I'd uninstall after the first day.

 

Just take a look at competition. In WoWS you can have fun even on Tier I. And get enough exp to get Tier II in one good game. Tier III in few games. WT grind is ridiculous in comparison.

 

This is going to kill the game. It's chasing away new players. Queue times are already so much worse than in WoWS and MM is also worse.

 

WT is such an amazing game technically. Physics, graphics and realism are so much better than anything WG ever did. But idiotic MM, exp grind and economy are destroying it. I can't believe you still need to research parts and extinguishers in tanks. It's one of the most infuriating things I ever saw in any game.

 

Planes have it much better than tanks, but it's still REALLY bad.

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

When waiting time is a problem, maybe it's an idea to let new players (reserve planes, max 30 games played or so) play on a new small flat map 5 vs 5 with 5 respawns...no ground targets.

 

Will give them time to get the hang of it...grind modules, research the next planes. Among eachother. 5 vs 5 is perfect for that, no need to let them do 15 vs 15 straight away.

I left out the ground targets, because those are actually bad for them...it will teach them nothing. When they run out of planes they go back to the hangar with a "Well done!" (even when it wasn't that good).

 

Sort of tutorial + 

 

Just an idea....prolly not perfect and I'm sure many can finetune this or think of something different and better.

 

I don't remember well what I had to deal with when I started...I was way too busy crashing into mountains and other planes, but I think it was pretty okey back then.

What I remember it was mainly Chaikas eating my he51s, not the cannon fighters, but I might be wrong. I was bad and a very slow learner, so I died a lot...one way or another.

Lolz, the reason I remember is because i hit every piece of ground and almost every mountain...I spent quite a bit of time PM'ing Long5hot asking what I was doing wrong (everything) and then trying to implement his suggestions/videos...Long5hot is the reason I stayed around after the first couple of weeks, he answered every single message and never once made me feel like I was beneath him or to stupid to learn...

 

Far as I know new guys are protected in reserves when they start but that's all, as soon as they unlock a non reserve its over or something. Part of the problem is Gaijin's entire model is a load of stinky. The addition of new planes forces people to come down to unlock and spade them, their BR and MM, also means the higher tiers are deserted and the lower tiers are being seal clubed by the more experienced pilots who can't play at the top tiers because they are also being used as seals.

 

But lets be honest Arcade is becoming more and more Rb with each change and won't even exist in a nearish future, I doubt they will listen to anyone at this point. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure new players get put into a "new player" pool for the first 10 ish matches. But even that might be a little low.. Might I add, the first match players play they get improved damage aka oneshotting pretty much every plane you shoot at. A small tactic to make players like the game..

 Badballie 1 and Anown, I have heard this about new players being placed in queues that only have reserve planes and/or having the one shot kill ability...I have never heard from a new player that this was available...What I usually see in the forum are the people who were on the receiving end of a game like shanina described and they did not enjoy it...Might be interesting if someone created a new account and tracked what happened flying reserves...I do not believe gaijin has made any effort to cut the noobs a break...I do not believe gaijin will make any effort either...

[BrutalForce 587]

Players amount of played matches should be counted also within the MM mechanics.

 

like;

 

between 0-50 matches (a newbie can only face another player with max 50 battles played)

between 51 and 250 matches (etc)

between 251 and 1000 matches (etc.)

etc etc etc

Edited March 7, 2016 by BrutalForce

[Enkidu69 1,014]

between 0-50 matches (a newbie can only face another player with max 50 battles played)

 

And then spends 20 minutes in queue.

 

The problem here is how completely outclassed 1.0-1.3 machines are when facing machines 1.3 BR higher. MM is simply horrible.

 

I'd love to have some WW1 biplane action from time to time too. The problem is it never happens. You always end up facing planes 1.0-1.3 higher.

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

Players amount of played matches should be counted also within the MM mechanics.

 

like;

 

between 0-50 matches (a newbie can only face another player with max 50 battles played)

between 51 and 250 matches (etc)

between 251 and 1000 matches (etc.)

etc etc etc

I like to play against better and more experienced players, I can learn more from that even when they kill me. I would support something like that only for players that just started playing this game.

[Zomby_Woof 16]

I totally concur .. it's rough on new players when tootling along in a ki10 and a Yak1 comes hurtling from 1000m above and blasts them into smithereens...

 

But then it's also tough on a mid level player with a stock plane , tootling along and a Yak9T or Fw190A5 comes hurtling from 2000m above and blasts them into smithereens too. 

 

I guess its down to learning experiences while the MM and BR are as they are ...you learn early to check your six , lookout for the seal clubbers and try to stay off their radar. 

 

Do agree there should be a 'training level' where a new player can cut their teeth without being blasted by a much more powerful and over-matched plane.

[doctorfixit 2]

I play Arcade only , can't imagine doing the more difficult  layers

I have several days flying time, 500k convertible research point

I have collected Tier 3 for all countries but I have stopped buying them because I will never get to use them.  

I stick with Reserve planes because I get sick of being blown away in 10 seconds by the seal clubbers and even doing that I have to deal with 3.0 and 2.7 BRs. Ridicuolous.  I am lucky to get 1 kill for 3 deaths  

If your mix average is lower than Tier 2   then that is all you should be fighting .  There is enough player skill variability there to keep it interesting.

[Bobscott_21 8]

 I agree.

Once in awhile I'd like to fly just bi-plane vs. Bi-plane.

Me too!

[trout0r 1,098]

Like most people here, I feel really bad for the new players who get farmed as soon as they leave the protected area which Anown says is 10 games, but I think it's 10 games OR whenever you research your first new plane?

When I started there was:

 

Bi plane/reserve only pool (yes ruled by chaika's, but still nothing like now).

Chaikas aside there was less clubbing planes, and less cannon clubbers in particular.

The "BR" back then was more often 0.7 not 1.0

 

Suggestions:

New player protection increased: You stay in the new pool until you have researched your 2nd new plane, which means secondary accounts will be out of it fast and the REAL strugglers will stay in it quite a while. Most logical and easy to apply.

First 20-50 games out of the new pool, you receive BR protection meaning you would ONLY be top BR (this would need a KDR qualifier to stop secondary's, maybe if you are below 1.5 KDR for your account this applies).

1.0-1.3 AVG BR only games, as a lot of people love bi-planes, where is the harm as the progress from those planes is so low it won't hurt gaijin's 'economy'

 

(dream mode)

0.7 BR

[ArthurBloss 633]

Well, I noticed the same thing when spading the Ki-44's a while ago.

 

My idea was to introduce battleratings 0.3 and 0.7 for the reserves and the bit better biplanes/early monoplanes. Posted this a while ago but the idea didn't get much attention. :dntknw:

[Ruklukk 256]

It makes you think the "Events" could be standardized to create new modes - i.e., Bi-plane only mode. Jet mode. Battle of Britain mode. It could create the opportunity for communities to grow based on specific affinities for plane types.

 

I started a new account - I was in 8v8 battles until middle of level 10. If I was intentionally squaded up they put me in normal matches otherwise I was on the "new" people maps against other low-level players and four or five bots (often times). I never purchased my T2 planes and had one researched. I did have T2 tanks that I was using and playing but it didn't affect me on the Aviation side for matches.

 

I saw nothing but legitimately new players. They seemed to be having fun and the matches were balanced.

[Shanina 1,735]

@Ruk

 

You're talking about RB games? because I never seen bots in AB.

[Ruklukk 256]

@Ruk

 

You're talking about RB games? because I never seen bots in AB.

 

AB - Low level games - their names are in brackets (just like in ground forces). They fill in the team - usually human names so they look like [Seth] - these are in the "protected" matches. If you create a new account and fly at low-population hours you'll see them.

[Shanina 1,735]

ah ok thanks!

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

@Ruk

 

You're talking about RB games? because I never seen bots in AB.

Used to see bots all the time in low tier AB matches...Tetsuo was one that had an "interesting" FM and was probably the one people talked about the most...

[Badballie 1,219]

 

 Badballie 1 and Anown, I have heard this about new players being placed in queues that only have reserve planes and/or having the one shot kill ability...I have never heard from a new player that this was available...What I usually see in the forum are the people who were on the receiving end of a game like shanina described and they did not enjoy it...Might be interesting if someone created a new account and tracked what happened flying reserves...I do not believe gaijin has made any effort to cut the Aces a break...I do not believe gaijin will make any effort either...

 

I can't confirm it either, other than the Dev's and mods have said they are, in the forums. I can't remember that far back, and am taking their word for it. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Badballie1