new player protection please...this should not be possible

[MickoBGD 57]

I suggest not to bnz with p26 but just go to fight and try to kill something... if you are new then dont go in the middle of the field around 5 planes but try to find a single target who went a bit far into your part of the map... stick to his ass and fire as much as you can :) also, try to check radar and control situation and if you see some higher level plane approaching try to avoid him and if you come to his back and he tries to roll around then he is yours :)

 

so in that rank not much tactic needed, just fly around and fire ! :)

[CloCloZ 375]

This has been an interesting thread and answers a couple of questions for me.  I am a new player and an older guy.  I have been playing games since "Pong", mostly FPS combat games.  I downloaded WT because I am a pilot and really liked the graphics and beginning game play.  As mentioned previously, my success was pretty good and then all of a sudden (still playing with reserves and one "free" Buffalo) I could not buy a kill.  Lots of hits and sparkles, but out of the blue I would be covered in what looked like cannon fire and I would lose a wing.  I do mostly B&Z as I too like Long5hots videos and feel with the p26 that is about all you have.  I log on every night, but sometimes just don't feel like losing 3 planes in a row.  I was contemplating a new computer to see if that helped, but somehow I can't justify one under the current conditions.  I must add that I do not have a premium account, am not going to get one or spend any money on this game.  Still I feel the competition should be a letter closer.

 

Thanks

 

 

First: as MickoBGD told you, don't waste your time trying BnZ with P26.

In Arcade you HAVE to fight "in the furball", more or less, and BnZ in Arcade is a tactic that (maybe) give you a little bit more safety (less "deaths") but usually much less points (rank position), SL and RP. This unless (maybe) you are one of the very few "Gods" that master BnZ so well to gain a lot of points even staying outside the battle zone the most of the time.

But if you look at replays of your Arcade battles (and I advice you to do so) you'll find that the most successful players don't use BnZ except for 20-25% of their kills. Instead they cross the furball at medium-low level, flying much more horizontally than vertically, avoiding the most dangerous spots and killing unaware enemies with few accurate shots.

Moreover BnZ requires:
1) quite powerful weapons, because in BnZ you have so little time to make the shooting pass trying to damage the enemy and the couple of weak MG P26 has are ... weak!
2) a good and trained aim and I suppose that after just 150 battles your aim could be in need of some more training.
3) yes, you could do BnZ in any plane and blah-blah ... but it's better to fly an energy fighter plane and, no, I can't think P26 is such a plane. It's barely faster than the slowest biplanes and the only reason I could barely think to advice BnZ with P26 is that it's not a great turner.
In other words: don't follow the usual advice praising BnZ as the Holy Grail of WT. It's not, at least in Arcade battles, and, anyway, is not an easy tactic for a beginner with a slow plane (IMHO in Arcade is barely convenient even at Tier III-IV for experts with fast planes, just think at Tier I for beginners!).

Second: listen to the good advice given by MickoBGD about to not going straight into the furball's core but try to find an isolated (and possibly unaware) target. A lot of beginners (me included!) at first battles usually rush to strafe ground targets without any caution no spatial awareness, so you should easily find one!

Third: practice aim and especially deflection shots. This is fundamental (even) in Arcade, IMHO.
To have good deflection shots you need: 1) practice, to understand how much lead you need (lead indicator in game is just a rough reference) 2) a comfortable and smoothly sliding mouse 3) the ability to move smoothly your wrist, following the movement of the enemy plane at least for a half second while shooting 4) with MG and especially .303 it's better to shot continuously for one second (much less with cannons).
So, instead of thinking to change your computer, check your mouse: it's the main control to "fly" and "shoot" in WT and it has to be comfortable to use. I like small and light mouses but your preference could be different.

Fourth: use keyboard keys for rudder and elevators. Especially rudder is important to use when moving mouse, to tighten turns when fighting. If needed, remap controls in your keyboard to be able to use more confortable keys than the default ones.

Fifth: spade your planes, even the Reserve ones. A spaded plane is in most cases a totally different, i.e. much better, plane than the stock plane. If you like Americans, try to grind F2A-3, which is an incredibly effective plane at Tier I (one of my favourites), and the almost as good F4F-3, P-40E-1 and P-36G and spade all them. In general, at Tier I Americans and Russians are the best in my opinion.

Sixth: increase crews' skills too, as soon as you have gained XP points. When the system allows you to choose amongst more options for the pilot, start with vitality (being killed by a single .303 shot is one of the most common and annoying happening for a beginner in WT!).
 

Edited March 17, 2016 by CloCloZ

[DancingBare 58]

Thanks MickoBGD & CCZ, today I went over to the dark side ;) and flew a couple of those funny looking Russian Bi-planes!  I did exactly as you all said (mostly) and things got better right away.....well except when those pesky tier 2 planes were around and I got one of them too!  I do use a logitec gaming mouse hooked to my old slow laptop.  Spading in the grind is slow, but I am getting there.  Thanks for the advise. 

[io_i_oi 1,016]

Thanks MickoBGD & CCZ, today I went over to the dark side ;) and flew a couple of those funny looking Russian Bi-planes!  I did exactly as you all said (mostly) and things got better right away.....well except when those pesky tier 2 planes were around and I got one of them too!  I do use a logitec gaming mouse hooked to my old slow laptop.  Spading in the grind is slow, but I am getting there.  Thanks for the advise. 

Don't let these qwerky little kids get to you. I am probably 2-3 times older than most of them. I started over a year ago trying desperately to get my first aircraft kill. Man, it was hard. I play all nations to learn the strength and weaknesses of each aircraft. I used to play exclusively First Person Shooters but fell in love with this flying shooter game. I've never payed a dime for all this fun (almost feeling guilty about it). Maybe I'll donate?? Just play when you are using those 10-15% research and sliver lion bonuses and you will move up quickly. Research points will always be valuable but you will get to a level where you will have more Silver Lions than you need. Even though we gripe a lot about his game there is really nothing better that comes close. Good Luck.

Edited March 17, 2016 by io_i_oi

[MickoBGD 57]

If you are 2-3 times older than me then you are probably the oldest person in the world right now :P

[io_i_oi 1,016]

If you are 2-3 times older than me then you are probably the oldest person in the world right now :P

Sometimes... I feel like it.

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by io_i_oi

[DancingBare 58]

I bet I'm the oldest guy in the game; I'm older than dirt.  My first computer came from Radio Shack and did not even have an operating system!

[PitchBlackYeti 192]

Newbie hell made me nearly quit the game when I came to arcade air from ground forces. The main problem with reserve planes is that you don't get +1.3/-1.3 matchmaking, you ALWAYS get +1.3, ALWAYS at the bottom, ALWAYS food for 2.3 planes because in every game there are bound to be some. I'm a semi-experienced player now and I can deal with Bf110's and Ki45's in a biplane, 2.3 planes are not that huge a problem anyway because to downtier it you are limited to only one per battle. The most brutal clubbing lineup is not the one with a lagg, 110 or Ki45, it's the British Hurricane lineup. You can bring FOUR 2.0 Hurricanes (and a Beaufort for giggles) to a reserve game and dominate without even being careful about dying like with a 2.3 plane.

 

If separating reserves from the rest of the world would strain the MM too much at least make them face 2.0 lineups once in a few battles, not every single game...

[nmfm1 0]

Since I was curious about all this I started a new account to see what happens. I started planes AB /He 51 and proceeded as WITHOUT putting any Points into Crew, I did not even expert them. Now I am Level 5 and I have never (!) encountered anything higher than BR 1.7. I am also put into 10 vs. 10 games only. And only a few enemies are 1.3/1.7. So far I only encountered one T2/BR1.7 plane, and that was a russian Mig 3-15.

 

New Player protection: Duringf all These battles I noticed couple of things:

- It takes very Long to overheat my guns.

- It was nearly impossible to kill by Pilot snipe or being killed by Pilot snipe. Also fires were less frequent.

- 1.3/1.7 planes are nearly invincible. F2A´s, Do17 and such take hundreds of hits without going down.

 

So I think there is already a good amount of new Player protection, and it may be based on Player Level. I will Keep you updated what happens once I proceed.

[_Gray_Hawk_ 354]

Since I was curious about all this I started a new account to see what happens. I started planes AB /He 51 and proceeded as WITHOUT putting any Points into Crew, I did not even expert them. Now I am Level 5 and I have never (!) encountered anything higher than BR 1.7. I am also put into 10 vs. 10 games only. And only a few enemies are 1.3/1.7. So far I only encountered one T2/BR1.7 plane, and that was a russian Mig 3-15.

 

New Player protection: Duringf all These battles I noticed couple of things:

- It takes very Long to overheat my guns.

- It was nearly impossible to kill by Pilot snipe or being killed by Pilot snipe. Also fires were less frequent.

- 1.3/1.7 planes are nearly invincible. F2A´s, Do17 and such take hundreds of hits without going down.

 

So I think there is already a good amount of new Player protection, and it may be based on Player Level. I will Keep you updated what happens once I proceed.

 

It won't last much longer. It is kind of hard to see what triggers it. If it is player level, research of a certain level, or flying a plane of a certain level. Maybe it is a combination. But suddenly somewhere between pilot level 5 and 10 and/or BR 1.7 or 2.0 you are put outside the sandbox and you are out there with lvl 100 players at 2.7. But it is good that at least there is something.

 

In my opinion it should be clearly documented what pushes you out into the wider war.

[nmfm1 0]

Next try: New account, but this time I earned the Buffalo (1.3) in the first Mission and researched the Catalina (2.0) on the 3rd. I used both and it is still 10 vs. 10 with a max BR spread of 0.7. So I think the sandbox is based on Level, not what you Research or fly. But you may already be uptiered or downtiered randomly. On the first Mission with the PBY I already encoutered 2.7 enemies.

[io_i_oi 1,016]

I have been playing for over a year now. I am on my original account and have done pretty good, and without any player protection or paying any money.

[_Gray_Hawk_ 354]

I have been playing for over a year now. I am on my original account and have done pretty good, and without any player protection or paying any money.

 

Well done! Have a biscuit!

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

Since I was curious about all this I started a new account to see what happens. I started planes AB /He 51 and proceeded as WITHOUT putting any Points into Crew, I did not even expert them. Now I am Level 5 and I have never (!) encountered anything higher than BR 1.7. I am also put into 10 vs. 10 games only. And only a few enemies are 1.3/1.7. So far I only encountered one T2/BR1.7 plane, and that was a russian Mig 3-15.

 

New Player protection: Duringf all These battles I noticed couple of things:

- It takes very Long to overheat my guns.

- It was nearly impossible to kill by Pilot snipe or being killed by Pilot snipe. Also fires were less frequent.

- 1.3/1.7 planes are nearly invincible. F2A´s, Do17 and such take hundreds of hits without going down.

 

So I think there is already a good amount of new Player protection, and it may be based on Player Level. I will Keep you updated what happens once I proceed.

 

 

So has it kicked you out of the playground yet with that account?

 

I have been playing for over a year now. I am on my original account and have done pretty good, and without any player protection or paying any money.

 

I somehow doubt that Gaijin turned it off just for you.

---

 

 

I don't think Gaijin should disclose the mechanism of player protection. Nor should it inform players that they are protected. Because - as you can tell from reading here - most people don't even notice that they are protected. I certainly didn't.

 

By the way, BR is somewhat tied to maps and rank. I am tabulating that stuff for a while. If you fly a Hurricane swarm, you most certainly will not get the Stalingrad, Saipan, Foggy Albion and Khalkhin Gol maps every time. To hit these maps repeatedly, you will -afaik- need to stay mostly in rank I.

 

And seriously, a biplane is a formidable weapon as long as you go into a turnfight. You should not die due to the guy you are turnfighting with, provided it is a monoplane.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Dodo_Dud

[nmfm1 0]

Still in the sandbox playing 10 vs 10. Max enemy Player Level so far was lvl 10, but this guy only had 1 airkill (and 200 ground kills). What I also noticed is that you can not downtier your lineup. Your BR is always the highest vehicle in your setup. This guarantees that max spread is always 0.7. But you can still see T2 planes (P40 on last Mission).

[Badballie 1,219]

Low and high tiers seems to be a problem that Gaijin cannot or will not address, even as a old player I can't go down and load up Biplanes with any confidence as I will face aircraft that are far superior in almost every way, its no fun competing against multi gunned Hurricanes and spitfires in biplanes equipped with 2 7.7 machine guns for anyone. I also not that most monoplanes can now turn with the gladiator so even the well known turn advantage has been nerfed a bit.

[PzGren 4,043]

I feel like this thread should be linked here in reference to the topic being discussed here.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/259375-highest-kill-record/

Getting high kill streaks and competing for high score is sporting and a great way to foster competition and self improvement... But the cost becomes dubious when the tool of choice leverages purely on applying massive qualitative advantage against new players.

Please guys, club the adult seals. Let the baby ones grow first. You get more meat out of adult seals too. Wait till they grow up, fat up, and give it a go.

[nmfm2 0]

Agreed, it would help a lot if the high rank Players in my Team with the higher Tier planes would go after the equal ones in the red cloud. Most times I see them go after the weekest Targets.

 

Btw: My sandbox time ended at Level 7->8, than I suddenly was thrown into battles with 1.3 BR spread and 16 Players each side. At this Point I had roughly 100 missions and 500 air kills.

[Shanina 1,735]

Agreed, it would help a lot if the high rank Players in my Team with the higher Tier planes would go after the equal ones in the red cloud. Most times I see them go after the weekest Targets.

 

Btw: My sandbox time ended at Level 7->8, than I suddenly was thrown into battles with 1.3 BR spread and 16 Players each side. At this Point I had roughly 100 missions and 500 air kills.

It looks like you're well prepared for the "real thing".

When I started I was a terrible player. I hardly killed anything and I had no clue about how the mm worked.

Took me 1000 or so games before I started to do half baked okeyish, and 3000 more before I started to play well. And still learning...and still doing stupid things.  :facepalm:

I admire players who do great straight away and it baffles me I still see level 100 guys with 5000+ games play like they started this morning.

I was a very slow learner, but some will never learn  :dntknw:

[nmfm2 0]

Don´t take me wrong, I am also a slow Player. I opened this account to get some data on how the new Player protection works (because I already forgot what it was like when I first entered WT), so I already had some experience with planes (not tanks, I am an awful tanker).

 

So everyone should also be Aware that the Level 1 newbie in his biplane can very well be an experienced Player that just opened a new account for whatever reason (grinding new Nation?, free GE?, who knows).

 

Btw: I started air combat with Kemais Air warrior 1 (and I still miss it)

[AresRules 10]

Thanks to all you guys posting about easy kills against new players, it would seem they are giving what we now call "Noobie-Protection" in battles which is frustrating for someone that actually spent years grinding away to get mods and crew levels. Getting one hit after shooting a player 2 or more times in ground battles is like a big F you to veterans. WarThunder's veteran players are slowly leaving and this is one of the reasons. I would hate to know I was a part of a developing team that is making a game that was great become a terrible game. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by AresRules

[GhostSoph@psn 2,213]

On 06/02/2021 at 15:09, AresRules said:

it would seem they are giving what we now call "Noobie-Protection" in battles

The only newbie protection i know of is a protected mode up to the 100 battle, where they are kept on a zone with only newbies and bots...and several limitations on maps and modes. So you never see these...

What you do see is players at their 101st battle suddenly being thrown into "normal" gamemode... some appear in forum still in shock

(It is a rather steep learning moment)

 

Actually this was REDUCED from when i started...3 years ago or so. Back then i was "protected" up until i got a 3.0 vehicle...and it lasted way more than 100 battles...i actually think it should be something in between...

[VT_88 342]

Sand box is  the first 100 battles where you only play with player at the same level and AI bot tanks and planes

 

They also added free crew experience, it's random. It may be on crew for bomber it may be some other etc. Same with tanks.

 

If you haven't played a nation yet, you can go into that nation and check each available crew slot. check all the crews and you will see free experience.

 

One will see this again when they introduce a new nation,. (if the do)