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Chieftain Berlin Camo


  

91 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the "Berlin Camo" be added for the Chieftain and any future BAOR vehicles

    • Yes
      87
    • No
      4


The Chieftain was used by the British army in Germany during the cold war as part of the British Army of the Rhine which subsequently was part of NORTHAG (Northern Army Group - part of NATO)

 

On the other end of the scale are terrain specific patterns like the "Berlin camo", applied to British vehicles operating in Berlin during the Cold War, where square fields of various gray shades was designed to hide vehicles against the mostly concrete architecture of post-war Berlin.

 

This camo would add a unique urbanesque look to the chieftain.

vichieftainberlin_header.jpg

British_Chieftain_tanks.JPEG

chieftain_mkIII_urban_camo.png

yjSuR1Y.jpg

chieftain%20tank%20berlin%20brigade%2001

 

 

 

In 1982, the officer commanding the 4/7 Royal Dragoon Guards tank squadron in Berlin felt that the normal Deep Bronze Green paint scheme of the British Army was incompatible with its urban environment. The green/black camouflage was a poor alternative when viewed against the contemporary urban backdrop of post-WWII Berlin. Straight lines are hard to find in nature and the standard patterns of black and green are equally unnatural amid the masonry, brickwork, timber and steel window frames of a city.

 

One influence in developing a solution was the paint scheme used by the Royal Navy in WWI, also known as the "dazzle" scheme. It was intended not only to merge and conceal, but also to mislead. Ships were painted with bold, bright and confusing shapes, which recognised the disruption created by wave structures in order to make it difficult to identify not only the class of ship but also it's direction, speed and range. Zebra stripes presented many potential bows to the enemy, making it hard to judge direction and false bow waves were painted on to imply different speeds. You need to know the distance, speed and direction of travel in order to target a ship. Before radar targeting was available, stereo optical range finders were used, similar in method to split view focusing in cameras. You had to spot a distinct vertical surface on the ship. This is harder to do if the outlines are broken up and the essential information is harder to obtain. In WWI the dazzle ships were targeted slightly more often than the grey or other camo scheme ships. However, they were hit much less often than the others. It seems to have worked at that time and the British actually hired professional artists such as Norman Wilkinson to design their dazzle schemes and tailor them to individual ships during WWI.

Berlin01.jpg Berlin02.jpg

All these visual clues were important when trying to acquire a target at sea, now redundant by modern methods of long range detection. However, they are still valid on land in an urban environment.

The element of surprise can be seen as a force multiplier. The Soviet tank aimer would have invested many hours studying NATO vehicles but confronted with an unfamiliar silhouette, he might have lost the initiative. Shoot or be shot at - any advantage through deception and misdirection by simple application of paint was worthy of investigation.

The Major experimented with cardboard silhouettes of the Chieftain Main Battle Tank (MBT) in the windows of his office. He noticed the repetition of vertical lines and by careful placement of different size squares and rectangles was able effectively to disguise the shape of the tank. The colours chosen, grey, white, brown and black, resembled the shades found on buildings, windows and doors. Irrespective of the size of vehicle, whether it is an MBT, APC or Land Rover, the blocks of colour are approximately eighteen inches square and should not be scaled up or down for different vehicles. Antennae were also a giveaway. If you were to break the vertical length of the aerial up into sections of different colour, it almost disappears, the visual clues no longer available.

 Berlin04.jpg

Initial reactions from his soldiers went from amusement to grudging acceptance. It was a similar situation with his fellow officers. However, all realised the advantage to be gained and how effective it was at the right distances. Certain camouflage patterns are ineffective when close up but improve as the distances increase. In our case, 50 to 60 yards was the minimum, as you got further away the target almost disappeared at 100 yards.

 

Following acceptance and encouragement by his Brigade Commander, the opportunity arose to show it to the Corps Commander. He came to Berlin to see for himself. Allegedly, he said "I can't see your f*****g tank, must be a good idea" The paint scheme was adopted by the squadron and subsequently by all British forces in Berlin. Each vehicle was to be painted to the same pattern; the same size blocks of colour and pattern would make it harder to determine the strength of the British Forces because they all looked the same.

 

http://www.emlra.org/index.php/articles/berlin-brigade-urban-paint-scheme

Edited by *swanseasean96

SAUBER_KH7 (Posted )

Your topic is Approved.
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Open for Discussion. :salute:

 

I have to admit that is the coolest historical cammo I have seen yet. :good: :Ds

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Open for Discussion. :salute:

 

I have to admit that is the coolest historical cammo I have seen yet. :good: :Ds

I agree, that camo is much cooler then other camos I have seen. It would be great to see in game.

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  • 1 month later...

It wasn't just the Chieftains that had the camo, all of the Berlin Brigade vehicles had it.

 

It is awesome btw. that's official.

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It wasn't just the Chieftains that had the camo, all of the Berlin Brigade vehicles had it.

 

It is awesome btw. that's official.

 

Yeah i know but atm  we only the Chieftain from the Berli Brigade, unless the Cent used it early on??? im not sure about that though

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Im gonna just add the write up i linked to earlier so people can just read it here it is not my work i am just sharing a man named Wayne Davies' work

 

 

 

In 1982, the officer commanding the 4/7 Royal Dragoon Guards tank squadron in Berlin felt that the normal Deep Bronze Green paint scheme of the British Army was incompatible with its urban environment. The green/black camouflage was a poor alternative when viewed against the contemporary urban backdrop of post-WWII Berlin. Straight lines are hard to find in nature and the standard patterns of black and green are equally unnatural amid the masonry, brickwork, timber and steel window frames of a city.

 

One influence in developing a solution was the paint scheme used by the Royal Navy in WWI, also known as the "dazzle" scheme. It was intended not only to merge and conceal, but also to mislead. Ships were painted with bold, bright and confusing shapes, which recognised the disruption created by wave structures in order to make it difficult to identify not only the class of ship but also it's direction, speed and range. Zebra stripes presented many potential bows to the enemy, making it hard to judge direction and false bow waves were painted on to imply different speeds. You need to know the distance, speed and direction of travel in order to target a ship. Before radar targeting was available, stereo optical range finders were used, similar in method to split view focusing in cameras. You had to spot a distinct vertical surface on the ship. This is harder to do if the outlines are broken up and the essential information is harder to obtain. In WWI the dazzle ships were targeted slightly more often than the grey or other camo scheme ships. However, they were hit much less often than the others. It seems to have worked at that time and the British actually hired professional artists such as Norman Wilkinson to design their dazzle schemes and tailor them to individual ships during WWI.

Berlin01.jpg Berlin02.jpg

All these visual clues were important when trying to acquire a target at sea, now redundant by modern methods of long range detection. However, they are still valid on land in an urban environment.

The element of surprise can be seen as a force multiplier. The Soviet tank aimer would have invested many hours studying NATO vehicles but confronted with an unfamiliar silhouette, he might have lost the initiative. Shoot or be shot at - any advantage through deception and misdirection by simple application of paint was worthy of investigation.

The Major experimented with cardboard silhouettes of the Chieftain Main Battle Tank (MBT) in the windows of his office. He noticed the repetition of vertical lines and by careful placement of different size squares and rectangles was able effectively to disguise the shape of the tank. The colours chosen, grey, white, brown and black, resembled the shades found on buildings, windows and doors. Irrespective of the size of vehicle, whether it is an MBT, APC or Land Rover, the blocks of colour are approximately eighteen inches square and should not be scaled up or down for different vehicles. Antennae were also a giveaway. If you were to break the vertical length of the aerial up into sections of different colour, it almost disappears, the visual clues no longer available.

Berlin03.jpg Berlin04.jpg

Initial reactions from his soldiers went from amusement to grudging acceptance. It was a similar situation with his fellow officers. However, all realised the advantage to be gained and how effective it was at the right distances. Certain camouflage patterns are ineffective when close up but improve as the distances increase. In our case, 50 to 60 yards was the minimum, as you got further away the target almost disappeared at 100 yards.

 

Following acceptance and encouragement by his Brigade Commander, the opportunity arose to show it to the Corps Commander. He came to Berlin to see for himself. Allegedly, he said "I can't see your f*****g tank, must be a good idea" The paint scheme was adopted by the squadron and subsequently by all British forces in Berlin. Each vehicle was to be painted to the same pattern; the same size blocks of colour and pattern would make it harder to determine the strength of the British Forces because they all looked the same.

Berlin05.jpg

Edited by *swanseasean96
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  • 3 months later...
  • 8 months later...

:bump:

 

The leopards got the tri-colour camo and I'd love for the Chieftains got this as an option, would be a instant buy for me.

SAUBER_KH7 (Posted )

Since you actually added something to the discussion, I will give you a free pass. For future reference, do not bump topics as this is against forum rules (It is considered as spam, and abuses the page function (moving a topic from page x to page 1 with out actually adding something valuable to the discussion)) Thank you.
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Yes this should be added to game, this has my vote, great presentation btw, probably the best I've read, good work. :good:

 

 On the subject of BAOR cam, where is the standard black and green cam that every wagon that moved (and didn't lol) had, during the cold war? The daft European cam is not what I'm talking about either. I never saw a vehicle with that paint scheme when I was out there. So that is another cam that needs suggesting.

;)   

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  • 2 months later...
On 27/06/2017 at 9:54 AM, Max_Lightning said:

Yes this should be added to game, this has my vote, great presentation btw, probably the best I've read, good work. :good:

 

 On the subject of BAOR cam, where is the standard black and green cam that every wagon that moved (and didn't lol) had, during the cold war? The daft European cam is not what I'm talking about either. I never saw a vehicle with that paint scheme when I was out there. So that is another cam that needs suggesting.

;) 

 

Thank you, I try to put a lot of effort into all my suggestions. The way I see it the better you present it the more chance of implementation shame this hasn't been implemented yet. :salute:

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