Tanks/Vehicles Sturmpanzer/SPG branch for the German Tech Tree

[McPuff 2,212]

This suggestion is in need of being updated as a result of certain flawed sources, but the general setup and information is sufficient for the suggestion.

Why these vehicles should be added:

The unique trait of the vehicles in this line would be their armament. Relaitvely low-velocity armament with massive damage and awesome effect! Their chassis vary from light and fast to heavy and slow, and so does their armour thickness, but they all function as carriers of heavy weaponry. Currently the German tech-tree has a severe lack of high caliber "derp guns". The Russian tech tree is the only nation which has a diverse selection of these vehicles and they are very well liked by many many players, including myself. Some of these are quite similar, as such some could be featured as premiums due to them not having a unique playstyle or trait compared to the other vehicles. All of these vehicles were not production models but even some of those that were never produced in great numbers, like the 15 cm s.I.G 33/2 (Sf) auf Jagdpanzer 38(t) or 15 cm S.i.G 33 auf Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf. H were still used in service. In fact, the only vehicles on this list that didn't enter active service in some form were the Sd.Kfz. 140/1 Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) mit 7.5 cm KwK 37 and Waffenträger 10.5 cm Krupp-Ardelt Mittlerer Einheitswaffenträger (Gerät 578).

 

Implementation:

Balancing would be difficult for these vehicles since they mostly depend on damage rather than other characteristics. I also suggest that the StuH 42 G should be moved to the new Sturmpanzer line and the Sturmpanzer IV already in-game would be switched out for a command varaint, see more in the "issues" section. Some of these vehicles could also be premium as some of them, while unique, are quite similar to others in performance. The current number of vehicles intended for the primary branch is 16 (including the StuH 42 G and Sturmpanzer IV (Early)), the current number of premium vehicles which would have otherwise suited this line is 7 (including the command variant of the Sturmpanzer IV).

 

Tech tree line and premium vehicles:

 

 

Tier 1:

Tier 2:

(Position changed)

 

Tier 3:

(Position changed, moved from premium)

Tier 4: 

 

Tier 5:

Premiums:

(Replaces the current premium Sturmpanzer IV)

 

 

Vehicles:

 

 

Tier 1:

 

 

1. Sd.Kfz. 140/1 Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) mit 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24

BR: 1.3-1.7

Note: Similar to the Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) we currently have in-game but with the 75 mm armament of the early panzer IVs instead of the 20 mm autocannon of the Panzer II.

Info - Number built: 2, Year produced: 1945, Armament: 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24, Armour: 10-50 mm, Speed: ~42 km/h, Engine: Praga Typ TNHPS/II water-cooled, 6-cylinder gasoline 125 PS (123.3 hp, 91.9 kW), Weight: 9.7-9.8 t(?), Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: ?

 

2. 10.5 cm leFH 16 (Sf.) auf Geschützwagen FCM 36(f)

BR: 1.7-2.3

Note: A French light infatry tank modified and armed with a german howitzer. 

Info - Number built: 12, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 16, Armour: 15-40 mm, Speed: 24 km/h, Engine: Berliet MDP V-4 diesel engine, 91 hp, Weight: 12.2 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 37 rounds

 

3. 10.5 cm leFH18/3 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen B-2(f) (Premium)

BR: 2.0-2.7

Note: A French heavy  tank modified and armed with a german howitzer. 

Info - Number built: 16, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 18/3, Armour: 15-60 mm, Speed: 28 km/h, Engine: Renault inline 6 cylinder 16.5 litre petrol, 272 hp, Weight: 28.5 t, Crew: 5, Ammunition capacity: ?

 

4. 10.5 cm leFH 18 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f) (Premium)

BR: 2.0-2.7

Note: A French artillery tractor modified and armed with a German howitzer. 

Info - Number built: 24, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 18, Armour: 9-12 mm, Speed: 35 km/h, Engine: Type 135 Delahaye 6 cylinder inline petrol engine, 70 hp at 2800 rpm, Weight: 7.7 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 20 rounds

 

5. 10.5 cm leFH 16 auf Geschützwagen auf Fahrgestell Mk VI 736 (e) (Premium)

BR: 2.3-2.7

Note: A British light tank modified and armed with a German howitzer. 

Info - Number built: 6, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 16 and 1, Armour: 4-14 mm, Speed: 56  km/h, Engine: Meadows water-cooled 6-cyclinder, 4.4 liter gasoline, 86,8 bhp, 88 hp at 3000 rpm, Weight: ~6.5 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 15<(?) rounds

 

6. 10.5 cm leFH 18 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen 39H (f)

BR: 2.3-3.0

Note: A French light tank modified and armed with a German howitzer. 

Info - Number built: 48, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 18, Armour: 22-34 mm, Speed: 35-36 km/h, Engine: Hotchkiss 6-cylinder water cooled 5.97 liter petrol engine, 120 hp at 2800 rpm, Weight: ~13 t, Crew: 5, Ammunition capacity: 36 rounds

 

7. Waffenträger 10.5 cm Krupp - Ardelt Mittlerer Einheitswaffenträger (Gerät 578) (Premium)

Additional pictures:

 

Note: A waffenträger constructed during the later stages of the war, its chassis was closely related to that of the Panzer 38(t).

Info - Number built: 1, Year produced: 1945, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 18, Armour: 10-20 mm, Speed: ~35 km/h, Engine: Praga AC/2 / Praga AE / Tatra 103, 150 hp at 2600 rpm, Weight: ~13 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 40 rounds

 

8. Wespe/Leichte Feldhaubitze 18/2 auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen II (Sf)

BR: 2.7-3.0

Note: A Panzer II modified and equipped with German howitzer.

Info - Number built: 676, Year produced: 1943, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 18, Armour: 5-30 mm, Speed: 40 km/h, Engine: 6-cyl petrol Maybach HL 62 TR, 140 PS (138 hp, 103 kW), Weight: 11 t, Crew: 5, Ammunition capacity: 40 rounds

 

9. Heuschrecke 10/10.5 cm le.F.H.18/1 auf Waffenträger IVb Heuschrecke/Heuschrecke IVb

BR: 3.0-3.3

Note: A prototype German self-propelled gun in a turret.

Info - Number built: 12 (including prototypes), Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm leFH 18/1, Armour: 12-30 mm, Speed: 35, Engine:  Maybach HL90 P20k 12-cylinder water cooled gasoline/petrol engine (320hp), Weight: 18 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 60 rounds

 

10. 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f) (Premium)

BR: 3.0-3.3

Note: A French artillery tractor modified and armed with a German howitzer. 

Info - Number built: 94, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 15 cm sFH 13/1, Armour: 9-12 mm, Speed: ~35 km/h, Engine: Type 135 Delahaye 6 cylinder inline petrol engine, 70 hp at 2800 rpm, Weight: ~8 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: ? rounds

 

11. Sturmpanzer I Bison/15 cm sIG 33 (Sf) auf Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf. B

BR: 3.0-3.7

Note: A Panzer I without its turret and with a new German howitzer within an open topped superstructure.

Info - Number built: 38, Year produced: 1940, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 5-13 mm, Speed: 40 km/h, Engine: 6-cylinder, water-cooled Maybach NL38TR, Weight: 8.5 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 3 rounds

 

 

Tier 2:

 

 

 

12. Grille Ausf. H/15 cm Schweres Infanteriegeschuetz 33 (Sf) auf Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) Ausf. H

BR: 3.3-4.0 (Stacked)

Note: A Panzer 38(t) modified and equipped with German howitzer.

Info - Number built: 90, Year produced: 1943, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 10-50 mm, Speed: 35 km/h, Engine: Praga AC, 6-cylinder petrol engine, 147 hp (110 kW), Weight: 11.5 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 15 rounds

 

13. Grille Ausf. K/M/15 cm Schweres Infanteriegeschuetz 33/1 auf Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) Ausf. K/M

BR: 3.3-4.0 (Stacked)

Note: A Panzer 38(t) modified and equipped with German howitzer. It differs from its previous model by having been based on another variant of the 38(t) chassis and by having its uperstructure in the rear rather than in the middle.

Info - Number built: 282, Year produced: 1943, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 10-15 mm, Speed: 35 km/h, Engine: 6-cylinder petrol engine, 147 hp (110 kW), Weight: 11.5-12 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 15 rounds

 

14. Sturmhaubitze 42 Ausf. G/StuH 42 G (Position changed)

 

BR: 3.3-4.0 (Stacked)

Note: A Panzer III equipped with German howitzer in a case mate.

Info - Number built: 1299, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 10.5 cm StuH 42 (10.5 cm leFH 18), Armour: 11-80 mm, Speed: 40 km/h, Engine: Maybach HL 120 TRM V-12 gasoline engine, 291 hp at 3000 rpm, Weight: 23.9 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 36 rounds

 

15. Sturmpanzer II Bison/15 cm sIG 33 auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen II (Sf) (Position changed)

BR: 3.3-4.4.0

Note: A heavily modified Panzer II with a new German howitzer within an open topped superstructure.

Info - Number built: 12, Year produced: 1941, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 5-30 mm, Speed: 45 km/h, Engine: Büssing-NAG typ GS water cooled 8 cylinder 7.9 liter gasoline engine, Weight: 16 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 10 rounds

 

16. Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B

BR: 3.7-4.3

Note: Basiclly a Stug with larger superstructure and with a new 15 cm howitzer.

Info - Number built: 24, Year produced: 1942, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 10-80 mm, Speed: 20 km/h, Engine: 12-cylinder Maybach HL120TRM 300 PS (296 hp, 221 kW),  Weight: 21 t, Crew: 5, Ammunition capacity: 30 rounds

 

17. 15 cm s.I.G 33 auf Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf. H/15 cm sIG L/11 auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf. H (Sf) (Premium)

BR: 3.7-4.3

Note: A Panzer III Ausf. H which has been modified and equipped with a 15 cm howitzer within an open-topped superstructure taken from the Sturmpanzer II Bison.

Info - Number built: 1, Year produced: 1940-1941, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 13-60 mm, Speed: ~40 km/h, Engine: 12-cylinder Maybach HL 120 TRM 300 PS (296 hp, 220 kW), Weight: 12-20 t, Crew: 4-5, Ammunition capacity: 10-15 rounds

 

 

Tier 3:

 

 

 

18. Hummel/Panzerfeldhaubitze 18M auf Geschützwagen III/IV (Sf) Hummel

BR: 4.0-4.3

Note: A heavily modified Panzer IV chassis equipped with German heavy howitzer.

Info - Number built: 724, Year produced: 1943, Armament: 15 cm sFH 18, Armour: 10-30 mm, Speed: 42 km/h, Engine: Maybach HL 120 TRM V-12 Petrol, 300 PS (296 hp, 221 kW, Weight: 24-24.5 t,   Crew: 6, Ammunition capacity: 18 rounds

 

19. 15 cm s.I.G 33/2 (Sf) auf Jagdpanzer 38(t)

BR: 4.0-4.7

Note: A Hetzer with a 15 cm howitzer in an open-topped superstructure.

Info - Number built: 1 prototype and 30 production(?), Year produced: 1944, Armament: 15 cm sIG 33, Armour: 8-60 mm, Speed: ~42 km/h, Engine: Praga 6-cylinder petrol, 7.8 litres 160 PS                      (158 hp, 118 kW) at 2,800 rpm, Weight: 15.75-16.5 t, Crew: 4, Ammunition capacity: 15 rounds

 

20. Sturmpanzer IV/Sturmgeschütz IV mit 15 cm StuH 43/Sturmpanzer 43/Brummbär/Stupa (Early) (Position changed)

BR: 5.0 (Stacked)

Note: A heavily armoured assault gun based on the Panzer IV with a taller superstructure.

Info - Number built: 52-60 (Total all models: 289-316), Year produced: 1943, Armament: 15 cm StuH 43 L/12, Armour: 10-100 mm, Speed: 40 km/h, Engine: Maybach HL 120 TRM / 12-cylinder / 300hp, Weight: 28.2 t, Crew: 5, Ammunition capacity: 38 rounds

Sturmpanzer IV Early/Late comparison:

 

 

 

Tier 4:

 

 

 

21. Sturmpanzer IV/Sturmgeschütz IV mit 15 cm StuH 43/Sturmpanzer 43/Brummbär/Stupa (Late)

BR: 5.0-5.3 (Stacked)

Note: A heavily armoured assault gun based on the Panzer IV with a taller superstructure. It differs from its earlier variant by having a modified superstrucutre and an MG 34.

Info - Number built: ? (Total all models: 289-316), Year produced: 1944, Armament: 15 cm StuH 43/1 L/12, Armour: 10-100 mm, Speed: 40 km/h, Maybach HL 120 TRM 112 / 12-cylinder / 300hp, Weight: 28.2 t, Crew: 5, Ammunition capacity: 38 rounds

Sturmpanzer IV Early/Late comparison:

 

 

 

Tier 5:

 

 

 

22. Sturmpanzer VI/Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mig 38 cm RW 61/Sturmtiger

BR: 6.3-7.0

Note: A Tiger I chassis rebuilt with a 38 cm rocket launcher in a heavily armoured superstrucutre.

Info - Number built: 1 Prototype and 18 Production, Year produced: 1943, Armament: 38 cm Raketenwerfer 61 L/5.4, Armour: 62-150 mm (Maximum: 150 mm @ 47°≈220 mm), Speed: 36-40 km/h, Engine: V-12, water-cooled Maybach HL230P45 engine 700 PS (690 hp, 515 kW), Weight: 65-69 t, Crew: 4-5, Ammunition capacity: 13 rounds

 

 

 

Armament:

 

 

1. 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24 

Ammunition: AP - 54 mm at 100 m, HEAT(Early) - 80 mm, HEAT(Late) - 100 mm, HE

Projectile weight (AP): 6.8 Kg

Muzzle velocity: 385 m/s

 

2. 10.5 cm leFH 16

Ammunition: AP - 52 at 500 m, HE

Projectile weight (AP): 14.25 Kg

Muzzle velocity: 395 m/s

 

 

3. 10.5 cm leFH 18

Ammunition: AP - 64 mm at 100 m, HEAT(Early) - 105 mm, HEAT(Late) - 115 mm, HE

Projectile weight (AP): 14.25 Kg

Muzzle velocity: 470 m/s

 

4. 15 cm sFH 13

Ammunition: HE

Projectile weight (HE): 42 Kg

Muzzle velocity: 381 m/s

 

5. sIG 33

Ammunition: Hollow-charge (HEAT) - 160 mm(?), HE - 60 mm(?)

Projectile weight (HEAT): 25-25.5 kg

Muzzle velocity: 240 m/s

 

6. 15 cm StuH 43

Ammunition: Gr.39 H1/A (HEAT) - 160 mm, HE - 60 mm

Projectile weight (HEAT): 25 kg

Muzzle velocity: 280 m/s

 

7. 15 cm sFH 18

Ammunition: AP, HE

Projectile weight (HE): 43.5 Kg

Muzzle velocity: 495 m/s

 

8. 38 cm Raketenwerfer 61 L/5.4

Ammunition: HE, Shaped charge warhead (HEAT) (Early), Shaped charge warhead (HEAT) Late

Projectile weight (HEAT): 351 Kg

Muzzle velocity: 28-45 m/s

 

 

Videos:

Spoiler

• Wespe:

Sturmpanzer I Bison: 

 

Grille:

Hummel:

Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär: 

Sturmpanzer VI Sturmtiger:

 

 

Issues:

  Hide contents

 

• Sturmtiger -  The Sturmtiger didn't use a traditional howitzer or cannon, it used a 38 cm rocket launcher. This would go against the model of having rocket vehicles exclsusively as Premiums but many people would be upset if it was featured exclusively as a premium and not as a normal vehicle. Since its primary armament had a diameter of 38 cm it would also take quite long to reload, since something like the Russian 152 mm howitzers can reload in 20-40 seconds the 38 cm rocket launcher of the Sturmtiger would likely take somewhere around a minute to reload. Its ammunition compliment is also quite limited at 14 rounds but since it takes so long to reload and since every shot would likely be a kill due to the sheer explosive power of the projectile it wouldn't matter much. The Sturmtiger also used a two stage rocket system. A liquid stage for getting the rocket away from the vehicle and a solid stage to keep it going for across a long distance. This would be an issue because of the different arcs of these stages as well as the pause in beteen them would lead to the rockets being quite tricky to aim at certain ranges, but it would be possible. 

 

• Artillery vehicles - Some of these vehicles are artillery vehicles used for indirect-fire. However, they were all intended to be used for direct fire if needed and they all had either HEAT or AP shells, just like every other vehicle on this list (except for the  15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f) and the Sturmtiger). They would function as light tank destroyers with the unique trait of high damage rather than high penetration. There are also already artillery vehicles featured in the game, the rocket vehicles. Rockets weren't ever intended for tank versous tank duties during the war, only as a type of artillery, unlike these vehicles which were intended to be able to engage and in some accounts did engage tanks. Even if the indirect-fire artillery vehicles of this line were featured it could still function as a complete line. 

 

• Ammunition - An issue might occur with the ammunition of the 15 cm sFH 13 used by the  15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f). This is because it could only fire HE rounds, no AP or HEAT. This means that the developers might not want to introduce it as a tank armed with only HE may be at a disadvantage to certain other vehicles. However, since the gun does have a diameter of 15 cm (slightly smaller than that of the KV-2) it would still be capable of destroying any enemy at its BR.

 

• Sturmpanzer I Bison - The Sturmpanzer I Bison does have one large issue, its lack of ammunition. It can only carrry three rounds. But it also has thin armour, a high profile, and is open-topped. This means that this vehicle would have a quite low BR which would help balance out its lack of ammunition and would guarantee that each shot could be a kill. It would require the driver to return to a cap circle more often but this would help balance it against other low BR vehicles. It should also be remembered that in-game vehicles can carry an extra round in the chamber which historically normally wouldn't have been there due to travel

 

• Sturmpanzer IV - The Sturmpanzer IV is already in the game, as a premium. This is a real shame. Its rightful place would be in this line. In order to solve this issue I suggest that the mass produced varaint already in the game is switched out for a command varaint, known as the Befehlsturmpanzer IV,  which is based of the later model and has the advantage of a roof mounted machine gun as well as being a more unique vehicle. 

 

 

 

Illustration credit: http://live.warthunder.com/user/Currus_loricatus/

Sources: Achtungpanzer.com, Militaryfactory.com, Tanksencyclopedia.com, Wikipedia.org, Navweaps.com, Wehrmacht-history.com, Forum.Valka.cz 

Edited June 13, 2018 by McPuff

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Open for discussion. (again) :salute:

[Shepard_FR 546]

STURMTIGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER !!!!!

 

I approve :p

[_23nick123 53]

i approve a LOT. i love the sturmtiger, and the heushrecke 10 :D 

[Stuka_Hunter 3,408]

Could you create links to people that created suggestions for those vehicles?

[_23nick123 53]

i know this is a bit of an old suggestion, but i still think it should be considered. personally, if i were too choose, id say that if this line ever got implimented, the heushrecke should be the tier 1 vehicle, the  Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B  could be the tier 2 vehicle, the  15 cm s.I.G 33/2 (Sf) auf Jagdpanzer 38(t) could be the tier 3 vehicle. 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Good to see this post is back, and I still support it.

[Ruslan_DR 686]

Gotta love how teh brummbar, which WOULD have been a tier 4, followed by the sturmtiger at tier V would have been reasonable, but they made it premium. Nice damn job.

[McPuff 2,212]

12 hours ago, Ruslan_DR said:

Gotta love how teh brummbar, which WOULD have been a tier 4, followed by the sturmtiger at tier V would have been reasonable, but they made it premium. Nice damn job.

As I mentioned in my original post, there were two distinct modles of the Sturmpanzer IV (there were really four production batches with minor differences). This means that the later Sturmpanzer IV could still be added to the normal tech tree.

 

I am of course saddened by the news that the early model is to be added as a premium. It would be better if the command variant would have been added as a premium.

[Ruslan_DR 686]

20 hours ago, McPuff said:

As I mentioned in my original post, there were two distinct modles of the Sturmpanzer IV (there were really four production batches with minor differences). This means that the later Sturmpanzer IV could still be added to the normal tech tree.

 

I am of course saddened by the news that the early model is to be added as a premium. It would be better if the command variant would have been added as a premium.

 

agreed, and i knew of the early/late models but was confused about which it was. 

 

I should also add, the sturmtiger, if we get it eventually, will be an all killing monster that makes the Kv-2 a laughing stock. I just read up, the german 250KG bomb as dropped by fighters, and default on arados and bombers, has an explosive weight of 125 kg.

 

The Sturmtiger shell, according to wikipedia? 125 kg.

 

This thing is literally going to be firing bombs at the enemy but eh, great against spawncamping dicks, use your invincibility to turn and obliterate them. Best part is you don't even need a direct hit with a shell that size, just land remotely next to them, so even if they're JUST behind a corner you can still kill them. 

It'd be pretty viable for tier V, but would require extremely skilled drivers. I know this since i can drive a KV at that level and still get the average kills others can. This is just a really big one minus the turret, more of a trap for anyone who's silly enough to get in your way. granted with that much explosive you could also kill yourself.

[McPuff 2,212]

On 2016-07-24 at 8:34 AM, Ruslan_DR said:

 

agreed, and i knew of the early/late models but was confused about which it was. 

 

I should also add, the sturmtiger, if we get it eventually, will be an all killing monster that makes the Kv-2 a laughing stock. I just read up, the german 250KG bomb as dropped by fighters, and default on arados and bombers, has an explosive weight of 125 kg.

 

The Sturmtiger shell, according to wikipedia? 125 kg.

 

This thing is literally going to be firing bombs at the enemy but eh, great against spawncamping dicks, use your invincibility to turn and obliterate them. Best part is you don't even need a direct hit with a shell that size, just land remotely next to them, so even if they're JUST behind a corner you can still kill them. 

It'd be pretty viable for tier V, but would require extremely skilled drivers. I know this since i can drive a KV at that level and still get the average kills others can. This is just a really big one minus the turret, more of a trap for anyone who's silly enough to get in your way. granted with that much explosive you could also kill yourself.

 

The Sturmtiger's armament would be effective at Tier V, however, there is a reason that I have placed it at a BR of 6.3-7.0

 

Part of the effectiveness of the Sturmtiger is its armour. It's upper plate is 150 mm thich at an angle of 47 degrees, this would mean an effective angle of about 200 mm, sligtly less than that of the Tiger II. However,  keep in mind that it is based on the Tiger I, therefore the lower plate would act as a weak spot. This armour would be most suited to a BR of between BR 6.3-7.3, in my opinion.

Just like the KV-2, you would have to be able to rely on the Sturmtigers armour to some degree, especially when reloading. 

 

However, I do see the need for a Tier V vehicle. Therefore I have modified the information regarding the Sturmtiger. Perhaps, if the Sturmtiger is at Tier V, the later model Sturmpanzer IV could be placed at Tier IV yet retain the earlier BR, just like the T-34-85.

Edited November 16, 2016 by McPuff

[Ruslan_DR 686]

so yeah, back to derp guns. I'm pretty sure this could work;

[bikinihorst 93]

Sounds nice and would be a sensible split for the current trees. Open top tank destroyers, casemate tank destroyers and large caliber howitzers separated would be the way to go! Could you please put the image links into image-tags so they are displayed directly? 

 

I don't like the idea of the Beutepanzers mixed with these. I think they are kludges and born out of need, not created by design. Tanks like the Hetzer or the 38(t) series and modifications are sensible, because they could be and were produced by (or "for") Germany, but not the "we found old tankettes and tanks, let's put a gun on it" type. The SiG on Pz.Kpfw.III H is also a kludge. It's very interesting and looks great, but was a one time thing made by the Afrika Korps engineers in lack of spare parts. As Premium? Sure. In the research tree? I don't see a reason.

Edited August 5, 2016 by bikinihorst
added my opinion about kludges

[Ruslan_DR 686]

By the way, it seems they equipped the Brummbar with ostketten.

[McPuff 2,212]

11 hours ago, bikinihorst said:

Sounds nice and would be a sensible split for the current trees. Open top tank destroyers, casemate tank destroyers and large caliber howitzers separated would be the way to go! Could you please put the image links into image-tags so they are displayed directly? 

 

I don't like the idea of the Beutepanzers mixed with these. I think they are kludges and born out of need, not created by design. Tanks like the Hetzer or the 38(t) series and modifications are sensible, because they could be and were produced by (or "for") Germany, but not the "we found old tankettes and tanks, let's put a gun on it" type. The SiG on Pz.Kpfw.III H is also a kludge. It's very interesting and looks great, but was a one time thing made by the Afrika Korps engineers in lack of spare parts. As Premium? Sure. In the research tree? I don't see a reason.

Well, hence why it is possible to vote for what vehicles you would like to see implemented in the line.

 

Thanks for your feedback, I think I'll edit the post slightly when I get back to my computer.

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

I suppose this could work.  The Hummel in particular would be fairly easy to implement as iirc it's pretty much identical to the Nashorn in every respect but the main armament.

[fedethesniper 1,470]

Full support to anything! (still, maybe it's better not to include everything, but in general...)

There are too many small calibers for Germany as now... some extra big gun won't hurt.

[vikingrGER 2,124]

Quote

This is NOT a suggestion for indirect-fire artillery!

You're right. It's even worse! You want to falsely use indirect-fire artillery for direct fire. The few examples which are already in-game are more than enough!

[fedethesniper 1,470]

15 minutes ago, vikingrGER said:

You're right. It's even worse! You want to falsely use indirect-fire artillery for direct fire. The few examples which are already in-game are more than enough!

Germany did develop AP shells for every cannon they made... this means that guns could be used as AT role...

[McPuff 2,212]

3 hours ago, vikingrGER said:

You're right. It's even worse! You want to falsely use indirect-fire artillery for direct fire. The few examples which are already in-game are more than enough!

All these vehicles have AP available, were capable of direct fire, and many of them, if not all, were used for this purpose in real life

[vikingrGER 2,124]

14 hours ago, McPuff said:

All these vehicles have AP available, were capable of direct fire, and many of them, if not all, were used for this purpose in real life

Some sources would be nice. I've never read that any of them were used for direct fire during war. And even if there are isolated cases, they were last desperate moves with no other chance to survive. Not comparable to anti air guns which were used as anti tank guns.

 

I read many books by German soldiers and none of them ever stated that the field artillery was used to shoot tanks.

[Thug Shaker Actual 225]

Lmao, this would be fun. +1 to voting for everything xD

[McPuff 2,212]

10 hours ago, vikingrGER said:

Some sources would be nice. I've never read that any of them were used for direct fire during war. And even if there are isolated cases, they were last desperate moves with no other chance to survive. Not comparable to anti air guns which were used as anti tank guns.

 

I read many books by German soldiers and none of them ever stated that the field artillery was used to shoot tanks.

"if not all" was mostly an exaggeration :P, although it is possible. It should be noted that I did not only mean direct fire against vehicles as well as the fact that this list is a combination of both artillery vehicles and traditional assault guns that were definitely used in the role of direct fire. 

 

What is important is that all of these vehicles were meant to be able to engage armoured vehicles if needed. They're not like the rocket vehicles which in real life never enaged in any type of direct fire and rely on RPM to deal damage in-game

Edited October 5, 2016 by McPuff

[McPuff 2,212]

Edit: Added '10.5cm leFH 16 (Sf.) auf Geschutzwagen FCM 36(f)' to fill out the empty low BR slot between 1.3-1-7 and 2.0-2.7 

Edited October 5, 2016 by McPuff

[vikingrGER 2,124]

18 hours ago, McPuff said:

"if not all" was mostly an exaggeration :P, although it is possible. It should be noted that I did not only mean direct fire against vehicles as well as the fact that this list is a combination of both artillery vehicles and traditional assault guns that were definitely used in the role of direct fire. 

 

What is important is that all of these vehicles were meant to be able to engage armoured vehicles if needed. They're not like the rocket vehicles which in real life never enaged in any type of direct fire and rely on RPM to deal damage in-game

Quote

Some sources would be nice. I've never read that any of them were used for direct fire against tanks during war.

Fixed it