tanks/vehicles Pz. Kpfw. I Ausf F (potential Tier 1-2 German premium)

[Ace_of_Aces3787 12]

 

All right, first post on this forum, so, here goes.

Not truly a member of the same line of development as the Ausf A and B, the Ausf F was a private foray by Krauss-Maffei and Daimler-Benz. Intended to be an infantry assault tank, there was much thicker armor, (80mm in the front compared to the Ausf B's 13mm!) This also included interleaved roadwheels, thicker tracks (judging by appearance), all mounted on a torsion bar suspension. The Commander had 5 periscopes, plus one binocular telescope for sighting machine guns. 30 were made, from April to December 1942, even though it was designed in 1939. Eight vehicles went to the 1st Panzer Division, and, as of July 1st 1943, 7 in the 12th Panzer Division. It seems the rest went to SS Police units. Unfortunately for the player,it only has a crew of two and two MG34's, so I think HE belts should be given to be used against unarmoured targets, (Halftracks, AA's and the like). Personally, I think the "Tiny Tiger" would make an excellent addition to War Thunder.

 

  Specifications-

Weight - 21 tons

Crew- 2

Engine - Maybach HL45P/6-cylinder/150 horsepower

Road Speed - 25 km/h

Cross Country Speed- 14km/h

Range (road) - 150km

Range (cross country) - 110 km

Fuel Capacity - 146 liters

Length - 4.38m

Width - 2.64m

Height - 2.05m

Armament -  2 x 7.92mm MG34

Ammo - 3,300 rounds

Armor - 80mm front to 25mm rear

Credit to Stuka_Hunter for specification layout

They have one at Kubinka so more detailed stats shouldn't be too hard to get.

 

Sources

"Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf F". http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/tanks/germany/pz1f.htm. 2013.

"Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf F". http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/Site.htm

Chamberlain, Peter, H. L. Doyle, and Thomas L. Jentz. Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two: A Complete Illustrated Directory of German Battle Tanks, Armoured Cars, Self-propelled Guns and Semi-tracked Vehicles, 1933-1945. New York: Arco Pub., 1978. Print.

Doyle, David. Standard Catalog of German Military Vehicles. Iola, WI: Kp, 2005. Print.

Performance and Armament

Trench - 1.2m

Fording - 0.95m

Grade - 30 °

Vertical Obstacle - 0.30 m

Traverse - 360°

Elevation +20° to -10°

Sight - TZF8

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Ace_of_Aces3787

[blakeob 8,086]

Open for discussion. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by blakeob

[LOUD_METAL 194]

Is it just me, or does that first picture look fixed? Like, the background doesn't match the tank...

 

 

It has a small armament. I can't see 7.92mm machine guns being useful outside of BR 1.0, or as an AA vehicle.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

My question is how is this thing supposed to fight anything that isn't a half-tack, truck or open-topped vehicle?

Edited July 16, 2016 by Mercedes4321

[SmartSkull007 2,991]

Good idea, but I think the Panzer I C would be a better idea for the 1.0-1.7 bracket.

 

[Daddo2 328]

Well, 2x 7.92 mm MG34 is way too weak armament against tanks even on 1.0 BR... These MGs are already in the game and have maximum of 13 mm of penetration, which is good enough only to fight some of the lowest ranks of SPAAGs. It also doesn't have a gun elevation (and probably also turret rotation speed) to engage aircraft effectively.

 

Sorry bro, but I have to say NO (unless you find a version with reasonable armament)

[Ace_of_Aces3787 12]

42 minutes ago, LOUD_METAL said:

Is it just me, or does that first picture look fixed? Like, the background doesn't match the tank...

 

 

It has a small armament. I can't see 7.92mm machine guns being useful outside of BR 1.0, or as an AA vehicle.

Here's another one then

22 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

My question is how is this thing supposed to fight anything that isn't a half-tack, truck or open-topped vehicle?

It isn't, this is more of a heavy armoured scout that can take out most light armored vehicles and planes. Sort of protection to your planes in a way.

1 minute ago, Ace_of_Aces3787 said:

 

 

3 minutes ago, Daddo2 said:

Well, 2x 7.92 mm MG34 is way too weak armament against tanks even on 1.0 BR... These MGs are already in the game and have maximum of 13 mm of penetration, which is good enough only to fight some of the lowest ranks of SPAAGs. It also doesn't have a gun elevation (and probably also turret rotation speed) to engage aircraft effectively.

 

Sorry bro, but I have to say NO (unless you find a version with reasonable armament)

Well, then maybe I'll do the Spanish version with a 20mm Breda cannon in about 2 weeks (I'll be out of town).

Edited July 16, 2016 by Ace_of_Aces3787

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

3 hours ago, Mercedes4321 said:

My question is how is this thing supposed to fight anything that isn't a half-tack, truck or open-topped vehicle?

 

Ramming.  It's got 80 mm of frontal armor, so why not use it?

 

On a more serious note, I would imagine it would have AP belts available, with comparable penetration to the AP rounds on the MG 17s seen on low-tier German fighters, so maybe it could kill some low-tiered light tanks at point-blank range from the side or rear, or if all else fails to shoot off their tracks to make them a sitting duck for a ram (or just to annoy the hell out of them).

Edited July 17, 2016 by Z3r0_

[Exo333 134]

I vote yes. As I always say, the halftracks are a pain to kill with a larger gun since they often over penetrate and do no real damage (At least in my experience), so having an MG armed vehicle would be nice instead of having to deal with the awkward aiming of co-axial ones all the time. (*coughtankettesplzcough*)

[Ace_of_Aces3787 12]

6 hours ago, Exo333 said:

I vote yes. As I always say, the halftracks are a pain to kill with a larger gun since they often over penetrate and do no real damage (At least in my experience), so having an MG armed vehicle would be nice instead of having to deal with the awkward aiming of co-axial ones all the time. (*coughtankettesplzcough*)

Don't Forget about all those other Panzer I variants with MG34's there are. I think this one is the best because of the armor.

I do suppose though, if you look at the photos closely, they are kind of coaxial to each other.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Ace_of_Aces3787

[venomdan@psn 86]

I would like to see this in the game as it does have an interesting history,  I just cant see past it's armament.  That being said, I think the Ausf C models and the Ausf B models with 20mm Breda guns would be a better Panzer I in the game.  But who knows, maybe there would be a way to implement the Ausf F in the game.....im on the fence right now. 

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

I would love to use this thing. Just give it an AP belt(these guns could take out T-26's with AP), and if all else fails, Ram! The pure weight of the thing would crush anything at Br 1. xD.

[KaleKonj 693]

3 minutes ago, Vrox11Z said:

I would love to use this thing. Just give it an AP belt(these guns could take out T-26's with AP), and if all else fails, Ram! The pure weight of the thing would crush anything at Br 1. xD.

It could,but earlier,1933. models with 15/6/6 mm armor and cylindrical turret.Ingame we have 1939. model with 22/15/15 mm armor (I don't remember thickness of the T-26-4). Cruiser A13 could also be penetrated on the side with only 7 mm of armor,but still useless against the American light tanks expect the M2A2 side armor.

Addition of armored cars would increase the number of viable targets,but not too much.

Overall,I don't oppose to introducing it,but it's only real use will be to act as a mobile pillbox, considering that there are no tanks with over 80 mm of penetration at range up to 2.0 br, with ocational kills and flanking shots to it.It could be the easiest tank to achieve "adamant".

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

4 minutes ago, KaleKonj said:

It could,but earlier,1933. models with 15/6/6 mm armor and cylindrical turret.Ingame we have 1939. model with 22/15/15 mm armor (I don't remember thickness of the T-26-4). Cruiser A13 could also be penetrated on the side with only 7 mm of armor,but still useless against the American light tanks expect the M2A2 side armor.

Addition of armored cars would increase the number of viable targets,but not too much.

Overall,I don't oppose to introducing it,but it's only real use will be to act as a mobile pillbox, considering that there are no tanks with over 80 mm of penetration at range up to 2.0 br, with ocational kills and flanking shots to it.It could be the easiest tank to achieve "adamant".

Yeah, the guns are weak, but it doesn't matter if it can still kill anything it fights, especially when nothing can pen it frontal. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Vrox11Z

[DestroyDaDa 193]

On 7/17/2016 at 0:28 AM, Ace_of_Aces3787 said:

Panzerkampfwagen I

Panzerkampfwagen I

MAN WHY WASNT THIS SUGGESTED YET

Of course! Even if it's completely useless, you CANNOT make a game about german tanks without the almighty Panzerkampfwagen I!

also AFAIK there was some variant of the Panzerkampfwagen I with a 20mm gun, so not that useless at all...

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

1 hour ago, DestroyDaDa said:

MAN WHY WASNT THIS SUGGESTED YET

Of course! Even if it's completely useless, you CANNOT make a game about german tanks without the almighty Panzerkampfwagen I!

also AFAIK there was some variant of the Panzerkampfwagen I with a 20mm gun, so not that useless at all...

It was variant created by the Spanish in the Spanish Civil War, using a 20mm Breda

[DestroyDaDa 193]

1 hour ago, Mercedes4321 said:

 

ye that wouldn't be so useless, even though the gun looks hillarious

Edited January 11, 2017 by DestroyDaDa

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

The 1 F can still kill with nearly the power of the M2 if given AP for the MG34... Just fyi.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Vrox11Z

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

33 minutes ago, Vrox11Z said:

The 1 F can still kill with nearly the power of the M3 if given AP for the MG34... Just fyi.

What sort penetration are we talking and from what source did you get your info?

[Kattenkrat 1,152]

Why not directly suggest the Pz.II J ??

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

13 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

What sort penetration are we talking and from what source did you get your info?

Well it's enough to destroy a T-26, I know that. In the Spanish Civil War.

 

http://www.panzerworld.com/armor-penetration-table

 

The MG 13,34,42 pen 13mm armor at 100 meters.  So in CQC the Panzer 1's with AP can kill pretty much any Br 1/1.3 tank in the game, more specifically the F because the 80mm armor allows it to get so close to another tank without taking damage. So anywhere from 0-10 meters the thing should assumingly be able to swisscheese other tanks exactly like the M2A2, with armor. (Also the MG stats for the AP are in the plane ammo types aswell.)

Edited January 11, 2017 by Vrox11Z

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

17 minutes ago, Kattenkrat said:

Why not directly suggest the Pz.II J ??

The 2 J is already suggested too. The 1 F would be before the 2 J if they both get added, anyways, the 1 F is sufficiant to combat tanks at Br 1-1.7 given the 80mm armor and the AP that would logically be able to kill any paper thin tank at 100mm or less.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Vrox11Z

[Thug Shaker Actual 225]

Well the Pz. Kpfw 1 was actually built as a trainer tank for Germanies new army. But they had to utilize them for their blitzkrieg or lesser roles. Its a tankette with the original designs only have 13mm of maximum armor. I find that 80mm is INSANE for a 1.0-2.0. But that is just the hull, not the turret. I mean, they only converted 30 like you said (out of the 1493 built). If they implement some type of scouting thisll be great, if they implement scout cars this'll be way overpowered due to the 80mm of frontal and 2 MG's. But it could have a very specialized role as a SPAA killer. Im unsure though, It could get added, but maybe not now. There's other things gaijin should be working on. +1 

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

Well atleast it would still be able to handle anything in CQC with the twin MG34 w/ AP and the armor.

[King_Bruce_Lee 125]

Maybe it's a bit to late but do you know that the 7.92 SmK(H) bullet can pen. up to 18-19 mm of armor at 100m? And some sources say it can go even up to 20mm at 500m. So what's the problem to make the whole Pz Kpfw I line as a reserve? 
 

SmK(H) was in use till 1943.

If you need to find more info at:
http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/ringbuchinfanterie.pdf
https://pl.scribd.com/document/167749155/M-Dv-170-2-Merkbuch-uber-die-Munition-fur-die-2cm-Flak-Madsen-1942