T-34-85 (D-5T) vs Sherman VC Firefly

[RVixen 931]

Really hope Gaijin will take closer look at those vehicles (BR 5.0):

T-34-85 (D-5T) (medium tank):

pros:
+ 1 shot king, stock BR-365A (APHEBC) shell does respectable damage upon penetration.

+ no need to aim at weak spot

+ much better turret armor

+ overall hull armor can bounce higher BR tanks quite reliably

+ turret ring module itself is a small target
+ main gun wobble much less while moving than its predecessor

+ fast and excellent maneuverability, one of the best for its tier

+ acceptable reverse speed

+ fast and powerful engine (55km/h)

+ positive team win/loss ratio

+ crews are protected by inflammable tanks

+ ammo location, hard to hit

+ cheap repair cost, twice quicker free repair time

cons:

- slow reload speed

- small crew compartment

- less ammo, 60 rounds

- armor is useless in tier 4+ matches (BR 6.3 and up when bringing higher BR lineup)

 

Sherman VC Firefly (medium tank):

pros:

+ high velocity 17-pounder gun

+ decent penetration shell

+ fast turret traverse speed
+ faster reload 

+ plenty ammo, 77 rounds

cons:

- armor of a M4 Sherman, very thin for a Tier 3 vehicle

- large profile

- higher RNG bounce on T-34 hull when angled, need to aim at weak spot.

- horrible maneuverability

- slow acceleration and top speed (41km/h)

- solid shell, no explosive filler

- gun wobble multiple times than T-34

- get 1 shotted by D-5T stock shell

- expensive repair cost + price

- negative team win/loss ratio

 

Overall, T-34-85 (D-5T) is way better tank compared to Sherman VC Firefly in most category.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by RNCoetzee

[Nefer666 3,807]

Quite hilarious  that t-34 reliably bounce 17pdr. Gun that could fight on  equal terms with Panther, bounce on a xxxx 45mm tinfoil. Gaijin tries really hard to keep "best ww2 tank" myth alive. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by Nefer666

[MadSlovenian 1,357]

We all know that Sherman tanks with current meta and armour need some  rebalancing and it doesn't look like we are seeing it any time soon :(. 

 

And we also know how solid shot rounds bounce and what post pen effects they have. 

[poopooo 559]

The problem is the heavy underperforming of 17pdr penetrations and damage;with the real damage and penetration the firefly can fight in BR 5.0 without any problem.

[Fliegel 1,660]

Yeah I've said that too. I have played few hundreds games in RB for both and it is quite significant differences.

 

For example the best ammo for the T-34-85 is BR365A for me. It has 143 mm penetration and 163 g TNT ballistic cap. For free.

The best ammo fro the Firefly is Mark 8 with 171 mm penetration no TNT and with ballistic cap. For 60 silver per shot.

 

It's good idea not to take max rounds so the tank do not blows up so easily. I take 35 in both. So what is the repair if they killed me at the start?

T-34     3011 + 35 rounds (35*0  ) = 3011 

Firefly   3997 + 35 rounds (35*60) = 6097

That's max so usually it is lower like 2500 and 5000 but still.... why the tank that performs worse* has two times higher repair + rearm?

 

*28 mm extra penetration sounds good but it isn't. The 140 is quite enough and then the TNT is what counts. So 171 mm without TNT is like having 4k monitor but only integrated graphic card. In WW2  solid shot was enough to damage the enemy tank and put it out of action but in WT you have to obliterate it. And that is a lot more easier with 163 g of TNT than 0.

So it seems they value the penetration more than post penetration effects which is not how the gameplay works in WT.

 

 

[BertTheTurtle 670]

Also, both have the same bad gun depression of -5°.

[bellezza03 6,009]

Firefly it s like a little Tiger.  Projected to target stuff at range using the powerful gun. Don t forget that firefly had 6.0 X magnification. Here.... better not saying. Also maps really doesn t help the firefly. Then add RNG and bounching a T34 means death. Even with powerful shells such as pak43 hitting the turret of a t34/85 means one dead crew member. Firing on the hull is much more devastating but it often happened in my tiger that such a risk many times doesn t not pay and then i got killed ( with consequent rage for stupid rng...). Then the absence of any explosive... yea brit TT is hell until stuff with APDS

[NightHawkF117 392]

7 hours ago, Fliegel said:

 

It's good idea not to take max rounds so the tank do not blows up so easily. I take 35 in both. So what is the repair if they killed me at the start?

T-34     3011 + 35 rounds (35*0  ) = 3011 

Firefly   3997 + 35 rounds (35*60) = 6097

That's max so usually it is lower like 2500 and 5000 but still.... why the tank that performs worse* has two times higher repair + rearm?

 

 

If you get killed right away you dont pay for the ammo. The ammo is only payed for when you actively fire it.

[BloodRose13 1,113]

Long story short: Gaijin is a Russian company that hates Britain. At least, that is the only conclusion I have for it.

[HauptmanT 46]

Russians pay dearly for that explosive filler. Their guns dont have the pen power of other nations. Your comparing a 76mm to an 85mm, and only considering the explosive filler. I've bounced that 85mm off the front of Shermans countless times. Heaven forbid I run into a Tiger hull down... might as well just J-out at that point. German 3.3 guns (75L43) have more power than the 85mm against armor.

So it's a trade off... Yes I too prefer Russian guns for a lot of things, since you get lots of chances to shoot at sides and rears, pen is less important then. But I've also died countless times because a 4.3 Panzer 4 H bounced my shots of the front flat armor. So going head long into the enemy in a T34 isnt the best use of them, wheras a Firefly can sit in the rear with the gear and take shots across the map. Each tank, each gun is different, learn to use them differently.

And it shouldnt be news to anyone that the Sherman is a bad tank.

[Kalaspuffar 763]

3 minutes ago, HauptmanT said:

Russians pay dearly for that explosive filler. Their guns dont have the pen power of other nations. Your comparing a 76mm to an 85mm, and only considering the explosive filler. I've bounced that 85mm off the front of Shermans countless times. Heaven forbid I run into a Tiger hull down... might as well just J-out at that point. German 3.3 guns (75L43) have more power than the 85mm against armor.

So it's a trade off... Yes I too prefer Russian guns for a lot of things, since you get lots of chances to shoot at sides and rears, pen is less important then. But I've also died countless times because a 4.3 Panzer 4 H bounced my shots of the front flat armor. So going head long into the enemy in a T34 isnt the best use of them, wheras a Firefly can sit in the rear with the gear and take shots across the map. Each tank, each gun is different, learn to use them differently.

And it shouldnt be news to anyone that the Sherman is a bad tank.

yeah thats why the 5,0 t34/85d5t has a WR of 61% in AB and 61% in RB With a K/d of 2,6

 

And the Firefly has 52% in AB and 42% in RB...with a k/d of 1,0

 

And by the way :

 t34/85 has a WR of 66%...and k/d 2,7-3,0

 t34-85E has a wr of 70%,,,,kd/d 2,7-3,6

 

The t34s pay dealy indeed.....

[fruchtgummikeks 142]

yeah, it´s somewhat suspicious that the firefly seems to bounce like crazy on all the t34 and kv tanks, while the achilles with the same gun and ammo consitantly oneshots exact those same tanks o.O

[KillaKiwi 5,478]

36 minutes ago, fruchtgummikeks said:

yeah, it´s somewhat suspicious that the firefly seems to bounce like crazy on all the t34 and kv tanks, while the achilles with the same gun and ammo consitantly oneshots exact those same tanks o.O

The Archilles fights regular T-34 with weaker turrets and less auto bounce tracks on the front hull :3

[fruchtgummikeks 142]

the 34/85 is 5.0 so you will see them from time to time with 4.0  and then the achilles oneshots them where the firefly bounces^^

 

but researched the meh tanks and have only 20pdr guns or better left xD, so it can only get better^^

[Zoky 394]

I play both brits and russian in rb and my experience is that 17pdr gun is severely underperforming! But if you have any brain you will have no problem against any T-34-76/85/100. Frst shot to the right of gun result in dead gunner and in 50% of cases destroyed breach too. Second shot to turret ring result in dead T-34. My nemesis in firefly/comet is tiger and sometimes panther. If tiger is angled its game over. On the other hand I can penetrate any T-34, IS-2 and even T-44 with 17pdr frontally! If they are angled shot at turret. If they are not angled shot at turret. If you can see their back shot at turret. If they appear in your sleep shot them at turret. Simple as that 

[An_Exile 315]

12 hours ago, Kalaspuffar said:

yeah thats why the 5,0 t34/85d5t has a WR of 61% in AB and 61% in RB With a K/d of 2,6

 

And the Firefly has 52% in AB and 42% in RB...with a k/d of 1,0

 

And by the way :

 t34/85 has a WR of 66%...and k/d 2,7-3,0

 t34-85E has a wr of 70%,,,,kd/d 2,7-3,6

 

The t34s pay dealy indeed.....

 

So what you're saying is that the T34's underpowered and needs some buffs, right?

[Kingpuddycat 77]

I got the Firefly a few weeks back, then reverted back to using tanks with BR of 4.0 or less on the brit side and will stay there until adjustments are made.

 

In comparison to what other nations have to offer, the brits are dead last IMO. Someone has to be last I guess. :P

[Fliegel 1,660]

On 7/29/2016 at 10:03 AM, NightHawkF117 said:

If you get killed right away you dont pay for the ammo. The ammo is only payed for when you actively fire it.

 

You are right! Thanks for correction I know that (high tier ammo would be nightmare lol) I just mixed it up somehow. The average stays the same though.

[IceDeath 593]

5 minutes ago, Fliegel said:

 

You are right! Thanks for correction I know that (high tier ammo would be nightmare lol) I just mixed it up somehow. The average stays the same though.

The reality of the situation is that nobody cares about your 2k silver difference, when you get into Cent 3\10 and FV221 territory there you do care about 20k bill for Cent Mk.10, but that is what you pay for really OP tank 

[Fliegel 1,660]

3 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

The reality of the situation is that nobody cares about your 2k silver difference, when you get into Cent 3\10 and FV221 territory there you do care about 20k bill for Cent Mk.10, but that is what you pay for really OP tank 

 

I do't think so. People who don't have Centurion and are in RB 5.0 matches when you earn 10 000 lions on average may seem 2 500 as noticeable. I can see how higher tier players do not care but T-34-85 and Firefly is 5.0.

 

16 hours ago, Zoky said:

I play both brits and russian in rb and my experience is that 17pdr gun is severely underperforming! But if you have any brain you will have no problem against any T-34-76/85/100. Frst shot to the right of gun result in dead gunner and in 50% of cases destroyed breach too. Second shot to turret ring result in dead T-34. My nemesis in firefly/comet is tiger and sometimes panther. If tiger is angled its game over. On the other hand I can penetrate any T-34, IS-2 and even T-44 with 17pdr frontally! If they are angled shot at turret. If they are not angled shot at turret. If you can see their back shot at turret. If they appear in your sleep shot them at turret. Simple as that 

 

That's nice and it works but it is still double effort compared to the cheaper T-34-85 with the same rating. Why?

Tigers turret mask could be penetrated as well and I prefer Tiger as enemy to the T-34 because it's a heavy tank.

Panthers are nightmare but they are 5.7 at least, though still cheaper than Firefly.

 

 

[Zoky 394]

To be honest with you I think I never managed to penetrate tiger turret front with comet apds or sherman ap. In those situation I simply don't have time for fine aim so maybe that's why I never did it. If he is not angled I shot at hull and if he is angled I run away  And while tiger is heavy tank I have feeling that he is more mobile then sherman. And its funny to me that people are bitching about T-34 bouncing while panther at same time is a xxxxx to pen with 17pdr and he too will uninstall you if he hits but hey its russian bias 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Zoky

[IceDeath 593]

The situation is like it always is, when Brits came out the 17pdr was OP as hell, it just OHKed and penned anything it saw especially on that Achilles with original BR of 3.3 if memory serves (may be 3.7, not sure but it was raised at some point), then as always GJ came down with BR adjustments AND 17pdr nerfs in the same patch (when the first wave of players already got to Centurion Mk.3 and FV221, so many people did not cared). 

[Fliegel 1,660]

7 minutes ago, Zoky said:

To be honest with you I think I never managed to penetrate tiger turret front with comet apds or sherman ap. In those situation I simply don't have time for fine aim so maybe that's why I never did it. If he is not angled I shot at hull and if he is angled I run away  And while tiger is heavy tank I have feeling that he is more mobile then sherman. And its funny to me that people are bitching about T-34 bouncing while panther at same time is a xxxxx to pen with 17pdr and he too will uninstall you if he hits but hey its russian bias 

 

It's the same as with T-34 except witout the turret ring - just do not hit the rim of the mask. It is fast heavy, yes. But it has one respawn in SB and it is costly in RB. So the player is often out.

Panther is good but it's first is at 5.7 and first T-34 is at 3.3. That's why people notice the T-34 first and more often. I;m not sure if htere is significant difference between 55 and 60 angle.

 

6 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

The situation is like it always is, when Brits came out the 17pdr was OP as hell, it just OHKed and penned anything it saw especially on that Achilles with original BR of 3.3 if memory serves (may be 3.7, not sure but it was raised at some point), then as always GJ came down with BR adjustments AND 17pdr nerfs in the same patch (when the first wave of players already got to Centurion Mk.3 and FV221, so many people did not cared). 

 

Possibly though I did not noticed that. I grind without premium so maybe they have adjusted it before i reach the 17 pdr.  Iremember AA car and Cromwell dominating low tiers though. Anyway, it's time for some adjustments I think.

[Nefer666 3,807]

30 minutes ago, Zoky said:

 And its funny to me that people are bitching about T-34 bouncing while panther at same time is a xxxxx to pen with 17pdr and he too will uninstall you if he hits but hey its russian bias 

 

There's HUGE diffrence between 45mm/60* plate and 80mm/55* plate. 45mm is overmatched ALOT by 75mm+ cannons, while 80mm is way more effective. Panther bouncing 17pdr is way more reasonable, because T/D ratio was favoring armor in this case, quite opposite in t-34 case.

 

If armor is thicker than shell diameter it makes armor more effective. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Nefer666

[IceDeath 593]

6 minutes ago, Fliegel said:

 

It's the same as with T-34 except witout the turret ring - just do not hit the rim of the mask. It is fast heavy, yes. But it has one respawn in SB and it is costly in RB. So the player is often out.

Panther is good but it's first is at 5.7 and first T-34 is at 3.3. That's why people notice the T-34 first and more often. I;m not sure if htere is significant difference between 55 and 60 angle.

 

 

Possibly though I did not noticed that. I grind without premium so maybe they have adjusted it before i reach the 17 pdr.  Iremember AA car and Cromwell dominating low tiers though. Anyway, it's time for some adjustments I think.

Well I can give you a hint, me and all my friends who grinded the Brits when they came out, we all basically bought premium Achilles and used it up until Centurion Mk.3 and FV221. It was this OP.