Bomber Escorts need credit for helping bombers

[Zontos8616 22]

We've all played a bomber, and we've all heard the cries for help with escorts...frankly most of us know that if we do provide bomber escort, and flying around up there and just being their body guard for incoming enemy air craft, we get no credit.  Especially if they are not engaged.  This has to change!  I have paid plenty of real money in this game, and we all need some kind of credit given if were going to help those that want the main position of bombing.  I just spoke with others in game and they agree just as well, but until there is going to be some kind of credit for escorting bombers, it's only those few that give up their time in getting RP's that will help out, and even then, it's a sacrifice.  Please help the community in getting some credit for Bomber escorts...having a Spitfire escorting your bomber is truly nice to have,,,but it's very rare.

 

Thank you!

 

Zontos

[Attic_Annie 488]

Definitely.

My idea: just multiply the points players gain when they're near bombers. Even if nobody engages them, they can still get halfway decent points if they're carrying bombs as well, to supplement the bomber's run.

[Zontos8616 22]

True, we already have "Team Work" which is setup by planes within a certain area.  This could be the same for the Bombers.  Whenever they drop bombs, and your within their area...not the drop zone, but near them, you get credit for the bombs being dropped, just like they get credit.  Folks would definitely want to support the bombers more, and you would see fights much higher in the sky just like they did in real combat.

 

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

i've  thinking of an AI bot (same as your aircraft) always in formation with you, and help you by firing on incoming Ennemy players (always get an assist if it kill the bad guys)

 

impossible to have it for some Bombers like B-29, Tu-4, B17-G, B-24D, G8N, Pe-8,....

[Jahrain 1,590]

It should not be that complicated to implement a working system for both escort and interceptors. Especially now, when there are spawns selected based on role.

 

"Escort" 

 

Pro: Gets some meager some share of the points that bomber gets for destroying GTs, as long as he stays in the vicinity of the bomber. Gets a big reward for downing any plane in the vicinity of said bomber. 

Con: Receives just meager points for GTs.  Slightly lower reward for furballing far from bombers - provided there is a friendly bomber in the game.

 

That would be a nice encouragement - even if the bomber is not engaged by enemy interceptors, the escort fighter would get a share of the bombing run results. The bomber should be able to do its job, so this outcome should turn into "just under average" game. not into the big fat "0" as it is now. The fighter did its job after all. 

 

"Interceptor"

Pro: Gets big reward for downing enemy bomber, and somewhat higher reward for any plane in vicinity of enemy bomber (escorts). On the end of the game, interceptor gets a share of the remaining GTs - much like in the escort case higher, but in this case based on amount of GTs the interceptor managed to protect. 

Con: Receives just meager points for GTs.  Slightly lower reward for furballing far from bombers - provided there is an enemy bomber in the game.

 

I guess this would work for me, makes the climb and wait worth it.

[ronin3423 832]

13 minutes ago, Jahrain said:

It should not be that complicated to implement a working system for both escort and interceptors. Especially now, when there are spawns selected based on role.

 

"Escort" 

 

Pro: Gets some meager some share of the points that bomber gets for destroying GTs, as long as he stays in the vicinity of the bomber. Gets a big reward for downing any plane in the vicinity of said bomber. 

Con: Receives just meager points for GTs.  Slightly lower reward for furballing far from bombers - provided there is a friendly bomber in the game.

 

That would be a nice encouragement - even if the bomber is not engaged by enemy interceptors, the escort fighter would get a share of the bombing run results. The bomber should be able to do its job, so this outcome should turn into "just under average" game. not into the big fat "0" as it is now. The fighter did its job after all. 

 

"Interceptor"

Pro: Gets big reward for downing enemy bomber, and somewhat higher reward for any plane in vicinity of enemy bomber (escorts). On the end of the game, interceptor gets a share of the remaining GTs - much like in the escort case higher, but in this case based on amount of GTs the interceptor managed to protect. 

Con: Receives just meager points for GTs.  Slightly lower reward for furballing far from bombers - provided there is an enemy bomber in the game.

 

I guess this would work for me, makes the climb and wait worth it.

i've made suggestions on rewarding escorts in the "improve teamwork" thread.  it should be done to reduce the amount of solo thunder. but there will always be issues.

 

escorting is fine but only at a loose ad hoc manner. if truly organized squads or skill/experienced unbalanced teams end up being the norm, then you will see massive one sided blow outs where one team ends GS maps in under 5 min as an escort squad shepherds all the bombing neophytes.  you will see a storm of complaints from fighter only players. since gaijin is reluctant to change maps or bases or bombing meta, historically there is rarely a solution that doesnt end up pissing off a good portion of the player base.  bomber races rarely please anyone who isnt grinding GE wagers.

 

unfortunately your interceptor idea doesnt work in a lot of AB GS FL or Dom maps where ground units self destruct a predetermined time/distances.  if a map goes long enough the gu will simply disappear on their own. there is no way for the program to discern how many gu an interceptor prevented from being destroyed if the game simply kills them itself.

 

also a good escort will typically kill an interceptor while he is climbing, effectively far away from the bomber.  the game engine is unlikely to be able to recognize that preemptive kill as defense of the bomber.  it would take some higher level ai coding to get the server to identify some stray fighter side climbing who then turns on a intercept course for a bomber and gets killed by his escort who recognized the threat and broke off to merge vs the interceptor.

 

gaijin has demonstrated that they are either sadistic or ignorant about game design in regards to motivating behavior/play.

in order to get bomber rescuer now you have to wait until the enemy actually hits the bomber, not just shoots at it.  having to wait for the bomber to get hit means you are encouraging escorts to let the bomber get hit and hope he doesnt die so that you can kill the interceptor.  worse it gives you the rescuer reward even if the bomber dies, so it is really just a bomber avenger award.

 

[AlmightyMike 1,080]

Simple solution is to give a bonus to every player that plays his 'class' the way it's suppose to be played.

 

Like in every MMO the Healer or Medic gets extra points for 'healing' or the Tank gets bonus points for absorbing damage.

 

In the War Thunder universe this could be translated to light-fighters getting bonuspoints for killing other light/heavy fighters and heavy-fighters for killing killing bombers.

 

Attackers getting bonuspoints for killing tanks, AA vehicles and landing crafts and bombers getting bonuspoints for bases, pillboxes and larger ships.

 

I'm not saying to restrict the targets to a certain "class" but make it more profitable for players to got for targets that earns them the most.

 

After all, simply asking people to do something usually doesn't work, you simply have to talk to their wallet

[Jahrain 1,590]

1 hour ago, ronin3423 said:

i've made suggestions on rewarding escorts in the "improve teamwork" thread.  it should be done to reduce the amount of solo thunder. but there will always be issues.

 

escorting is fine but only at a loose ad hoc manner. if truly organized squads or skill/experienced unbalanced teams end up being the norm, then you will see massive one sided blow outs where one team ends GS maps in under 5 min as an escort squad shepherds all the bombing neophytes.  you will see a storm of complaints from fighter only players. since gaijin is reluctant to change maps or bases or bombing meta, historically there is rarely a solution that doesnt end up pissing off a good portion of the player base.  bomber races rarely please anyone who isnt grinding GE wagers.

 

But the squad blowouts are there even now. if you take a four men squad in either bomber or fighter, or lets say two B-17s and two fighters to give them screen, then provided you have a half-decent squaddies and a tiny bit of luck you will end the game soon anyway. Not to speak bout four 217s or stuff like that.

 

BTW, I am a typical example of a fighter-only player 

 

 

1 hour ago, ronin3423 said:

unfortunately your interceptor idea doesnt work in a lot of AB GS FL or Dom maps where ground units self destruct a predetermined time/distances.  if a map goes long enough the gu will simply disappear on their own. there is no way for the program to discern how many gu an interceptor prevented from being destroyed if the game simply kills them itself.

 

Non-stationary GTs should not be counted anyway, their well-being is more a CAP/CAS fight than interceptor business. Bases and AF is what I had in mind. 

 

1 hour ago, ronin3423 said:

 

also a good escort will typically kill an interceptor while he is climbing, effectively far away from the bomber.  the game engine is unlikely to be able to recognize that preemptive kill as defense of the bomber.  it would take some higher level ai coding to get the server to identify some stray fighter side climbing who then turns on a intercept course for a bomber and gets killed by his escort who recognized the threat and broke off to merge vs the interceptor.

 

5 clicks window. Thats usually what I consider the "guarded envelope" round my flock (flying escort missions since 1.29)  . Anything that enters that 5 Km envelope is a threat and should be taken into account by the escort. Should give enough breathing space to escort guys.

[Aintence__@psn 171]

Make it so fighter thats 1km away from bomber will get bonus SL/RP when bomber drops its load succesfully.

Edited August 5, 2016 by *Aintence__

[Zontos8616 22]

These are really great suggestions...I've been asking other players in game as well., and they too agree.  I do like the radius idea around the bomber..What about just having a simple click...of when the game is about to start...you have the option to click Escort, so when you start the mission.  This way, lust like the game already knows the percentage of combat we were in, the game will know the percentage the escort stayed within a range of the bomber.  So if there was no action at all with the bomber, they still get their credit.

 

Now, lets say the escort gets engaged with an enemy...even if they are pulled away from the bomber, which will happen, for that particular fight, they get credit from the fight...The timer stops after that fight.  So then the escort can make it's way back to a bombers radius, which there will be some kind of indicator in the GUI to know that they are within range.  Kind of like...the Return to the Battlefield radius, but would say, leaving bombing escort radius zone, to continue it's selected role as an escort for that mission.  

 

Bottom line, escorts need to get credit for the work that they do in game.  I love my bomber role, but I also provide support to bombers when my bomber gets shot down knowing I won't get any credit at all for just flying around up there.  

 

Last night, I wish I could remember his game name, but there was a player that stayed with me the whole time I was up bombing the air strip mission that only has the two targets to bomb from the very start.  He was able to take 1 enemy out, but other than that he saw no other action.  I was able to take out the bombing target, and as a team, we all won.  I still felt bad that he stayed up there with only one enemy...because you know he saw that he was only at a very low percentage.  Maybe he will be discouraged now for providing a bomber escort...It's like you get penalized in the game for deciding to hang around a bomber in case they get attacked.  

Edited August 5, 2016 by Zontos8616

[Warpig_ 5,473]

For some reason Gaijin is reluctant to give equal RP as kills for fulfilling equally important roles such as escorting and being a good wingman (A good wingman doesn't need kills to fulfill his duty, sometimes doesn't get them at all).  Assist/Teamwork type rewards need to be bumped up.

 

Shame on us for wanting to incorporate real fighter doctrine in an "Avia Sim" (as termed by Gaijin themselves...). Wouldn't want to impeded on their precious profit margins...... The Grind™ must live on!

Edited August 5, 2016 by Warpig_

[Jermster_91@psn 1,081]

Points for bombers flying to the airfield/bases would also be nice. It sucks when you are at 15K Feet and get shot down by AAA or the airfield and bases get destroyed before you can drop your bombs and get nothing at the end of the match.

[BabaYaga_Yamraj 82]

Well u are a whole different kind of fellow...in a world where evrry1 is frustrated and annoyed by the sheer stupidness of bomber gameplay and their super DM model...u want to escort them...I actually cannot use the words to describe u...

Whenever I fly high and enemy is coming close to kill one of my bombers...I break off and see that bomber go down..gives me equivalent pleasure of scoring a kill myself...

 Do us/community a favour...stop hepling the bombers...let them die for increasing the game length to at least 5 mins(still less than most android games lol)

[DoNotRemember 110]

3 hours ago, Yamraj_Godlike said:

Well u are a whole different kind of fellow...in a world where evrry1 is frustrated and annoyed by the sheer stupidness of bomber gameplay and their super DM model...u want to escort them...I actually cannot use the words to describe u...

Whenever I fly high and enemy is coming close to kill one of my bombers...I break off and see that bomber go down..gives me equivalent pleasure of scoring a kill myself...

 Do us/community a favour...stop hepling the bombers...let them die for increasing the game length to at least 5 mins(still less than most android games lol)

Hey, when you don't escort bombers they will stupidly dive down and respawn to die again. There also other reason why they do that stupid (it is most effective when they have tons of bombs), but the main is, true, no escort, not altitude superiority - they dive. People who try climb in a bomber and stay high, if left without cover, dying, spending SL on dropped bombloads, they give up on playing nice and smart (like spending 3-5 minutes to sideclimb to 7-9 km) and go to dark side of bombing spam. So, you are making things ever worse. You are, literally, educate a new generation of diving bombers. Stop it.

[nanoJ_ 771]

4 hours ago, Yamraj_Godlike said:

Well u are a whole different kind of fellow...in a world where evrry1 is frustrated and annoyed by the sheer stupidness of bomber gameplay and their super DM model...u want to escort them...I actually cannot use the words to describe u...

Whenever I fly high and enemy is coming close to kill one of my bombers...I break off and see that bomber go down..gives me equivalent pleasure of scoring a kill myself...

 Do us/community a favour...stop hepling the bombers...let them die for increasing the game length to at least 5 mins(still less than most android games lol)

 

By not killing the threat, the friendly bomber will dive to escape, thus making matches shorter.

 

 

Encourage smart bomber gameplay (staying at high altitude and level bombing) and the lenght of the mach will increase.

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

13 hours ago, DoNotRemember said:

Hey, when you don't escort bombers they will stupidly dive down and respawn to die again. There also other reason why they do that stupid (it is most effective when they have tons of bombs), but the main is, true, no escort, not altitude superiority - they dive. People who try climb in a bomber and stay high, if left without cover, dying, spending SL on dropped bombloads, they give up on playing nice and smart (like spending 3-5 minutes to sideclimb to 7-9 km) and go to dark side of bombing spam. So, you are making things ever worse. You are, literally, educate a new generation of diving bombers. Stop it.

 

This. I don't bother climbing anymore. Diving and getting 5-10 ground kills, maybe one air kill or assist with my gunner, die and respawn is much more profitable and helps the team a lot more than climbing for several minutes and be shot down by some guy in a P-51, P-47 or Fw 190 before I can even drop my bombs. With tactical ground targets being near impossible to hit from a bomber and high altitude bombing being suicidal this isn't going to change anytime soon.

[BabaYaga_Yamraj 82]

U are so mistaken...with 8-10 bomber spawns in some matches...u think they care abt alt. Superiority or escort...they race against themselves to the nearest base or ground target...

The thing called smart bombing will only come to play where bases have enough HP to be repeatedly bombed to destroy and not with a single payload...

And smart bombing where ppl have 4-5 bomber line up...lol...whom are we kidding

Just let them die... I have seen many instances where fighters up high are already respecting this code...and not engaging each other while they engage bombers...

I am to such an extent against bombers that I will help you bring down a Tu4 if they need it... 

[DoNotRemember 110]

It is a previous generation of dive-fast-spacebar-warriors educated by non-climbing furball fighter pilots.

Seriously, I wanna spade this last/latest Ki-49 bomber in japanese tree. It has max payload of 4x250 kb bombs. I don't care diving in it, it will take ages to spade this way. I need to do fifteen drops to kill all minibases if not more. And you say I deserve a special shot to my back. No, I deserve to have forward gun like in Tu-2 to punish stupid helicoptering fighters in rope-a-dope or hammerhead, because I'm the only plane at 7km. I had this feeling spading all these Pe-2 modifications, gift Tu-2 and others. It was much easier in Yer-2 and Pe-8 to spade them because "dive and spacebar" is pretty quick way to spade them. But not with low payloads like medium/dive bombers. You may say I need to go for ground targets, but it will also take ages to spade this way, because you have low outcome per target and short life at low altitude.

Edited August 30, 2016 by DoNotRemember

[BabaYaga_Yamraj 82]

Not sure why u are doing this...

Not well versed with Japanese tree so don't know if you are talking of an attacker or bomber..

The issue is not of spading here...its completely different..and I do not want to reiterate myself...peace

[DoNotRemember 110]

13 minutes ago, Yamraj_Godlike said:

Not sure why u are doing this...

It is like I'm a completionist and wanna spade everything. I can't see other special case for me to play bombers (besides unlocking camos or thunderer wagers or like this) and have more fun from shooting people down, but, yep, I play bombers and attackers too. But can't still find out where is a fun to play them...

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

2 hours ago, Yamraj_Godlike said:

I have seen many instances where fighters up high are already respecting this code...and not engaging each other while they engage bombers...

 

What code? They're just looking for an easy kill.

[BabaYaga_Yamraj 82]

9 minutes ago, *sigma__zero said:

 

What code? They're just looking for an easy kill.

Code , No Code, Ez kill ...whatever

 

point being (related to topic)... No need to escort bombers...

Ps- a fighter tunneled vision to climb to engage a bomber is far easier kill than the bomber himself...

[DoNotRemember 110]

1 hour ago, Yamraj_Godlike said:

Code , No Code, Ez kill ...whatever

 

point being (related to topic)... No need to escort bombers...

Ps- a fighter tunneled vision to climb to engage a bomber is far easier kill than the bomber himself...

Agree. I prefer to attack fighters when in a fighter. Just because they are more easy targets than most bombers at 4.3 and up. So, maybe, it is automagically means I escort friendly bombers. And I also use our bombers as baits above enemy spawn and kill helicoptering enemy fighters, so it also means I escort them already.

[Renamed748193 565]

I would be very happy to escort friendly bombers as the game is right now when for every enemy I kill nearby them the friendly bomber would be magically blown to bits as well.

[BabaYaga_Yamraj 82]

21 minutes ago, Okkie_ said:

I would be very happy to escort friendly bombers as the game is right now when for every enemy I kill nearby them the friendly bomber would be magically blown to bits as well.

Hahahaha... True magic does exist..