ground vehicles Correction in RP/SL reward & modules (GF - AB) BR-5.7 to 8.3

[Umbriellan 2,986]

Hello,

 

Following some events I started a comparative analysis on the Research Point needed to spade & make a unit useful (repair tool + FPE + a correct shell).

I ended with (?) profiles of the ground vehicles in-game corresponding to these BR (AB mode).

 

Here the result of my harvest of data:

BR - 5.7

Spoiler

 

BR - 6.0

Spoiler

 

BR - 6.3

Spoiler

BR - 6.7

Spoiler

BR - 7.0

Spoiler

 

BR - 7.3

Spoiler

 

BR - 7.7

Spoiler

 

BR - 8.0 & 8.3

Spoiler

 

I couldn't help but find some issues here & there - so I came here in the suggestion part of the forum instead of the bug-report section as it's more a proposition to correct some object inside the current system.

 

So:

Using these boards to compare two vehicles must be with caution: some of them, as the Jagdtiger, come from an high place in the tree before going down, so Gaijin didn't modified the RP-cost. But other are in the BR-syndrom situation: the Panther II is an exemple.

An "useful unit" is a vehicle which already research: the repair kit, an other lvl-1 module & the FPE +  a correct shell (not necessarily the best).

 

Talking about Research Point & modules orders:

On the BR - 5.7,

Spoiler

The IS-1 is a bit too low in requiered RP, it could reflect the fact it was at a lower-BR before & his BR-nerf wasn't followed by any module-modifications. Looking at the result it was on the battlefield, the BR will probably not change (or be lowered) so a RP-nerf is needed to grind it.

 

On the BR - 6.0,

Spoiler

The Panther F appear as an high-BR vehicle which received a BR-buff without any modifications on the module-cost. So it's a BR-syndrom, as for the ISU-152.

 

On the BR - 6.3,

Spoiler

The average cost to have a unit with potential is 24,1k & 29,5k.
As we can see: the German are the cheapest with 16,6k needed & with the lowest ammount of RP needed to spade them

On the BR - 6.7,

Spoiler

The average cost to have fully upgrade units is near 160k or 200k RP; to have a correct unit, you must receive 30k~.
The light units: T92, Type 62 & Type 60 are in the worst place & need a bigger ammount to be correct.
-the case of the T92 could be easily solved by lowering the APDS shell, which is on the lvl-3 modules.

 

The Panther II is out of the discussion by his Tiers-5 nature; his problem comes with the BR.

On the BR - 7.0 & 7.3

Spoiler

Near than 240k RP are needed to spade a unit at this level; near the 50k are needed to have a useful unit.
The M46, T-44-100 & the ST-A2 could be considered as upgrade of previous vehicle explaining why they are that low to be interesting.

 

The Jagdtiger & the Obj.906 are on the other hand Top-Tiers units which are dropped down by Gaijin without modification.
So the Jagdtiger MUST receive a modification for the module-cost (especially the lvl-1 at 33k & the lvl-4 at 80k).
The Obj.906 must see his HEAT shell (lvl4) droping into the lvl-2.
Side Note: 117k RP are needed when the HEAT-shell is considered as vital for this unit; without you drop to 45k, which is very correct at this level.

 

Talking about the Reward in Research Point & Silver Point (in this order: RP/SL):

On the BR - 5.7,

Spoiler

-the Heavy Tank n°6 is better than the Tiger H1 (1.66<1.72 RP) ;

=> this difference should disappear as it is a "copy" of the Tiger H.

-the Sturer Emil is quite high, with 1.4%SL ;

=> maybe it should be nerfed to 1.1 or 1.2, if the BR isn't changed.

-the IS-1 is very low on the RP income, with 1.54 - against 1.66 (Tiger H) / 1.72 (M4A3E2 [76]) while all of them are Heavy Tanks

=> this difference should appear; or the IS-1 going back in a lower-BR position.

 

-the PT-76b is kinda low with the 0.9% SL;

=> a buff to 1.0 or 1.1 could be a good thing.

 

On the BR - 6.0,

Spoiler

-the Charioteer Mk.7 is also pretty low on the SL% with 0.9 - against 1 with the M36 Jackson, ISU-122S

=> it should then receive a buff on this part.

 

-the M41A1 (US & Jp) are kinda low with 0.9% SL;

=> a buff to 1.0 or 1.1 could be a good thing

 

On the BR - 6.3,

Spoiler

-the M26 T99 must see an upgrade : +0/+0.3 to be similar to the other premium on the same BR;
-the T-44/122 should have a modification in is %RP to be considered as a counterpart of the SuperHellcat: +0.06/+0
-the SU-122P could be seen as the counterpart of the premium Bfw.JgPt and so should receive an upgrade: +0/ +0.1

-as we could consider the M26 Pershing & the T-44 equivalent to the british Centurion Mk.3: an upgrade of his reward should be considered ( +0/ +0.1)

 

On the BR - 6.7,

Spoiler

The light tanks: T92 & Type 62, the ASU-85 are underperforming & need: T92: +0/+0.1 ; Type 62: +0/+0.3 ; ASU-85: +0%/+0.2%;
The Panther II is strangely underperforming too: +0/+0.1;
The Caern & the ST-A1 should also receive a bonus: Caern: +0/+0.3 ; ST-A1: +0/+0.2

 

 

In the end:

Spoiler

Reward RP/SL modification:

-[vehicle] => (before) RP/SL => (after) RP/SL -- buff in green, nerf in red.

 

-Tiger H1: 1.66/1.2 => 1.72/1.2

-IS-1: 1.54/1 => 1.72/1

-PT-76b: 1.72/0.9 => 1.72/1 or 1.72/1.1

-Chariot Mk.7: 1.78/0.9 => 1.78/1

-M41A1: 1.78/0.9 => 1.78/1 or 1.78/1.1

-M26 T99: 1.84/0.9 => 1.84/1.2

-T-44/122: 1.78/1 => 1.84/1

-SU-122P: 1.78/0.9 => 1.78/1

-Cent. Mk.3: 1.84/1.2 => 1.84/1.3

-T92: 1.9/1.1 => 1.9/1.2

-Panther II: 1.96/1.3 => 1.96/1.4

-Type 62: 1.9/0.9 => 1.9/1.2

-ASU-85: 1.9/1 => 1.9/1.2

-Caern.: 1.84/1.1 => 1.84/1.4

-ST-A1: 1.9/1.2 => 1.9/1.4

 

Module modification:

IS-1: increasing the RP needed (aka: RP nerf) - from 45k RP needed to spade to 55k;

Panther F: decreasing the average RP needed (aka: RP buff) OR fix the BR (BR nerf);

Tiger II(P) & Jagdpanther: increasing the RP needed ? (aka: RP nerf);

T92 : lowering the APDS shell from the module lvl-3 to the lvl-2;

Type 62 & Type 60 :light reduction of their needed RP on the lvl-1 & lvl-2

Jagdtiger: important reduction of his needed RP (highest cost on the BR7.0)

Obj.906: lowering the HEAT shell from the module lvl-4 to the lvl-2 or 3

 

Globaly, it will increase the battle-rewards (in SL) for these units & for few of them, the grind should be a bit easier.

The only nerf we could see would be toward the Tiger II(P) & the Jagdpanther (which saw other issues in the past).

 

--It's still surprising that Light Tanks receive such low rewards & the Heaviest units get better ones... both of these classes need their Modules to be fully functionnal & both of them should be used to get good reward. The way it is in-game, by the present game-modes & these kind of reward to play with, left us thinking that Gaijin is punishing for no specific reason these units...

 

Update(s):

-17/01/2017 : correction + addition of the BR 7.3-8.3

-21/01/2017 : addition of the BR 5.7 & 6.0

Edited January 20, 2017 by Umbriellan

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Open for discussion.

[Umbriellan 2,986]

50 minutes ago, CokeSpray said:

Open for discussion.

 

Thank you & sorry about the PM - I was a bit worried :-/

[HerrSektor 3,840]

Can you extend this to the Air vehicles???

 

i can provide this table made by my self... about Tier V jets and their modification...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bSIo_DMoyyE-WJTPQHPHSFA7mcGDu28EEqvj5_hqDyQ

[HerrSektor 3,840]

On 14/1/2017 at 1:15 PM, Umbriellan said:

To the moderator: I'm still not sure if this work must appear as suggestion or as a bug-report, as for me they are mostly errors made (as the RP-cost for the Jagdtigers, the needed RP for the way to the Obj.906's HEAT, etc...).

Also, Jagdtiger Tier IV mods costs 80k RP points by 2 of them, and the Conway Tier IV mods costs 39k RP points by 2 of them... Both are Tank Destroyers, both are 7.0 Tier V vehicles, one's have a turret and powerfull free for spam ammunitions, and the other one doesnt have a turret and his armor is negated by the tank destroyer named before...

[Umbriellan 2,986]

13 minutes ago, zSektor92 said:

Can you extend this to the Air vehicles???

 

The study was a try at first; but we could extend this to all BR / Game mode / Army without issue.

Somebody ask me to do the jets, but I think I will do the end of the GF-BR(AB) first.

 

16 minutes ago, zSektor92 said:

i can provide this table made by my self... about Tier V jets and their modification...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bSIo_DMoyyE-WJTPQHPHSFA7mcGDu28EEqvj5_hqDyQ

 

Nice ! In which game-modes the BR are ?

 

It can easily be completed by the RP/SL rewards in AB (they can be seen on the in-game statscard).

If I have enough time tomorrow I will take a look & start a board on them.

 

14 minutes ago, zSektor92 said:

Also, Jagdtiger Tier IV mods costs 80k RP points by 2 of them, and the Conway Tier IV mods costs 39k RP points by 2 of them... Both are Tank Destroyers, both are 7.0 Tier V vehicles, one's have a turret and powerfull free for spam ammunitions, and the other one doesnt have a turret and his armor is negated by the tank destroyer named before...

 

Yes: as we can see, the Jagdtiger is spaded with 492 k RP; while the Conway needs 238 k RP.

It is the best exemple for now on the mistakes that need a correction. Like you put your document, I, now, wonder if there is something similar for the Jets.

[OTMMA 449]

You did a very fantastic job, very great work. I cannot wait to see where this will go. 

[HerrSektor 3,840]

8 hours ago, Umbriellan said:

Nice ! In which game-modes the BR are ?

the RP cost module are the same, and is independent of gamemode you select...

[Umbriellan 2,986]

Addition of the BR 7.3 / 7.7 / 8.0 & 8.3

 

-An analysis must be made; a first view can tell us that a scheme was made for the 3 new SPAAG (M163, FlPz 1 Gepard, ZSU-23-4), as well for the 3x ATGM (Swingfire, Rktjgpz (1) & (2)) and the IT-1).

 

About the ATGM, seing their datas here & the situation (+ the complaints on that) in-game, we could ask why is the IT-1 in 8.3; while the others are staying inside 8.0 ? 

 

An other situation is strange & requier an anwser a : why the M60 has the lowest SL-% income ? With +1.1, it's the highest unit with the lowest income & lower compared to the precedent (M48A1) & the successor (M60A1) which doesn't make many sense...

 

 

[Umbriellan 2,986]

Something is disturbing me...

 

With the 17x units in the BR 8.0+8.3, you get an average of 487 600~ RP needed to spade a unit.

In the BR 6.3, so only 1.7 below, on 8x units, you get an average of 148 300~ RP needed to spade a unit.

 

On 6 step on the 24 lvl in-game (so from 6.3 to 8.0 - if you prefered: the last 25% of the GF-game): the grind is multiplied by 3,29 !

It's stunning !

 

On a scatter, it looks like that:

Spoiler

 

I will try to collect more datas on the lower BR to complete that.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Umbriellan

[Umbriellan 2,986]

Addition of the BR 5.7 & 6.0 with few analysis.

 

Three light units (PT-76b & M41A1 [US/Jp]) are once more low on the income; while being pretty normal on the module-costs...

 

-datas on ealier-BR will be a bit more complex for me to obtain...

[SmashButtons 159]

If Gaijin corrected this, it would be awesome. 

 

Too bad i've researched almost all of the vehicle on the post, but still, it's a REALLY NEEDED FIX.

 

Thank you so much for the effort.

[Lucass_CABJ 62]

+1

[Ambassador_SVK 716]

I can agree with this. Some vehicles have BR because of HEAT-FS but till you get them that vehicle is useless or ****. Sometimes I must play hudred of games till vehicle is usefull. T92, ISU-152,...

[Umbriellan 2,986]

3 hours ago, Ambassador_SVK said:

I can agree with this. Some vehicles have BR because of HEAT-FS but till you get them that vehicle is useless or ****. Sometimes I must play hundred of games till vehicle is usefull. T92, ISU-152,...

 

I am currently working on an article to speak about the BR system; in the end will appear some solution to make the BR & the grind mode adequate.

Due to his nature, I think the article will appear in " constructive criticism corner ".

Edited January 21, 2017 by Umbriellan

[Umbriellan 2,986]

My Article about the Battle-Rating named "The BR Syndrome" is out, feel free to read it:

 

Be carefull: /!\ wall of text /!\

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion passed to the developers for review.