I-185 (M-71) - why is this thing BR 4.7?

[Tigerspook 315]

I have seen a few posts lately that claim the I-185 (M-71) is OP or at least "best of breed" at it's BR. I am curious why this is.

 

It has 3x 20mm cannons.  But many deadly planes (Cannon-Stangs, Tempests, Hurricanes, etc) have 4x 20mm and have a lower BR.

 

The I-185 is slow in level flight, maybe only faster than a Sea Hurricane. It has an insane roll rate, but it's turn radius isn't as good as planes it commonly meets such as Spitfires and similarly BR-ed P-63s.

 

The I-185, in steep dives, out-flies it's control surfaces and plows.

 

Finally, it's fragile. One burst and it's ruined if not burning.

 

I finally - finally - spaded this thing last night. I have never seen such a one-and-out fighter as this.

 

I've been flying BR 4.7 Russians for a while now and I don't see many people flying these. Why not? It isn't like there are a lot of other choices at this BR. When I do see one, I kill them. They are as easy to kill as P-400s. Compare to, say, J2Ms and Bf 109-G models, both of which are freaking UFOs. I avoid the former, but the Imp of the Perverse in me makes me want to test the G-2s.

 

I am just about ready to pull this thing out of my 4.7 lineup (while leaving three 4.0 BR planes in!)

 

Why would this be a mistake? What magical amazing attribute of the I-185 do I not see?

Edited February 21, 2017 by Tigerspook

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

It's actually a really solid & universal plane.  It's a great turner (if you know how to rudder turn), it has 3 cannons that are nose mounted (much better than wing mounted), and it carries a pair of 250 kg bombs for ground strike needs.  

[Tigerspook 315]

54 minutes ago, l_AM_GOD said:

I...and it carries a pair of 250 kg bombs for ground strike needs.  

 

Bombs... Ground strike... What would be a suitable BR if it could not carry bombs? 

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

30 minutes ago, Tigerspook said:

Bombs... Ground strike... What would be a suitable BR if it could not carry bombs? 

4.7, it can also carry rockets. It's a nice plane just not that great since it faces a lot of 5.0 better planes like all the 5.0 Spitfires, Bf109 G-2,G-2/trop, Yak-9P, La-7B, etc... (I might have forgot some)

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

1 hour ago, Tigerspook said:

 

Bombs... Ground strike... What would be a suitable BR if it could not carry bombs? 

 

I would still say 4.7.  It is a very solid fighter but there are a lot of L2P problems that pilots face that hinder them from using the plane correctly. Sorry if "Bombs" is the only thing that you saw in my post to justify that BR. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by l_AM_GOD

[Tigerspook 315]

31 minutes ago, l_AM_GOD said:

 

I would still say 4.7.  It is a very solid fighter but there are a lot of L2P problems that pilots face that hinder them from using the plane correctly. Sorry if "Bombs" is the only thing that you saw in my post to justify that BR. 

 

I was being a jackass  and making a point that ultimately, the bombs don't matter.

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

I gotcha man.  On a serious note though, It is not a good flat turner and is not as user friendly as something as easy as a 109 or J2M.  Use your rudders to turn with it and it's really pretty dang good.

[Tigerspook 315]

Just now, l_AM_GOD said:

I gotcha man.  On a serious note though, It is not a good flat turner and is not as user friendly as something as easy as a 109 or J2M.  Use your rudders to turn with it and it's really pretty dang good.

 

That sort of advice is why I come here.  I have heard of rudder turning, and sometimes I think I do it accidentally.  I need to get better at it. I run out of fingers for the keyboard sometimes.

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

15 minutes ago, Tigerspook said:

 

That sort of advice is why I come here.  I have heard of rudder turning, and sometimes I think I do it accidentally.  I need to get better at it. I run out of fingers for the keyboard sometimes.

 

Youtube can be your best friend... Look up Rudder Turning and Max Pitch.  Combining these two brings out the true performance of many aircraft (Especially Russians).

[Touched_Grass 758]

Funny you should mention this plane now, I just flew it several times last night, stock, and got games of 19-0, 12-0, 6-1, and then 6-1 again. Of course, that was with a friend baiting some for me, but I can feel how the plane works. It is a bit fragile, and one shot can kill its wing control or cause a large fuel leak. It is indeed slower, and pushing the rudder too hard can lead to a flat spin. Other than that, the guns are just O-K. This is not really an ideal summary of how the plane performs though, as mine was stock. I got a modification every game, though, using some boosters. I'll be back for some more with this plane soon, I like it. It does warrant a 4.3 BR, in my opinion though.

[io_i_oi 1,016]

I always thought of it as a UFO. I would hold off spawning it unless I became desperate at the end of a battle and needed just a few more kills.

[Tigerspook 315]

1 hour ago, _F1LTHY_M3M3R_ said:

Funny you should mention this plane now, I just flew it several times last night, stock, and got games of 19-0, 12-0, 6-1, and then 6-1 again. Of course, that was with a friend baiting some for me, but I can feel how the plane works. It is a bit fragile, and one shot can kill its wing control or cause a large fuel leak. It is indeed slower, and pushing the rudder too hard can lead to a flat spin. Other than that, the guns are just O-K. This is not really an ideal summary of how the plane performs though, as mine was stock. I got a modification every game, though, using some boosters. I'll be back for some more with this plane soon, I like it. It does warrant a 4.3 BR, in my opinion though.

 

All planes are pretty good when the target is distracted.  I certainly didn't have kill-counts like yours, though I think we play a different game. My big games were 4 kills. My average kills per game is probably less than one. It took me forever to spade it.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Tigerspook

[Tigerspook 315]

1 hour ago, io_i_oi said:

I always thought of it as a UFO. I would hold off spawning it unless I became desperate at the end of a battle and needed just a few more kills.

 

I had some good luck with the plane's predecessor, specifically over the runway at less than 200m in single-airfield domination matches as time was running out.  Twisting, turning, shooting, evading... It was excellent as disrupting the Reds' plans even when it didn't kill out-right.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Tigerspook

[sidchicken 721]

1 hour ago, _F1LTHY_M3M3R_ said:

pushing the rudder too hard can lead to a flat spin.

This was the big issue with the 185 for me.  I am just a few RP away from finishing the spade on this one, and it feels like they may have addressed it somewhat, but I fly with a stick, and the twist axis is my rudder, so I have to be extremely careful with this plane to not spin out and lose control.  I've had less trouble with this recently, and I'm not sure if that's due to a tweak in the FM or just me getting used to the plane.  All that said, I'd much rather fly the La-7B-20 at this BR - it just feels better to fly, and has comparable firepower (slightly superior IIRC).  No good bombs and no rockets, but it's just a better fighter IMO.

[Saint_StuG 1,282]

I do not own it, but considering how easy I got on their tails, and ripped throught them, they are pretty bad. It's in my experience not as agile as a Yak or Lavochkin, not quick enough to catch up with a Bf109G-2, the SHVAK cannons are not that good too. they have reasonable ROF, but do less damage than Hispanos and Mg151/20s. it doesn't climb well enough to catch up with Messerschmitts and Spitfired either, and have very, very fragile wings

[Tigerspook 315]

7 minutes ago, sidchicken said:

This [the rudder] was the big issue with the 185 for me. ... I have to be extremely careful with this plane to not spin out and lose control. ...  All that said, I'd much rather fly the La-7B-20 at this BR - it just feels better to fly, and has comparable firepower (slightly superior IIRC). ...

 

I have not had any issues with the rudder causing a flat spin.  I prefer the BR 4.0 La-7. 2x 20mm Shvaks gets the job done against fighters.  I have the La-7B-20 but have not flown it - if I do my BR goes from 4.7 to 5.0 and I am not prospering at 4.7...

Edited February 21, 2017 by Tigerspook

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

39 minutes ago, Tigerspook said:

 

I have not had any issues with the rudder causing a flat spin.  I prefer the BR 4.0 La-7. 2x 20mm Shvaks gets the job done against fighters.  I have the La-7B-20 but have not flown it - if I do my BR goes from 4.7 to 5.0 and I am not prospering at 4.7...

 

It's a really solid plane... IMO the Russians are weak vs the Germans and the Germans just keep getting better... Russia is fun at 5.0+ but everything is so similar feeling to the lower BR Russians that I'm not entertained by the mid-high BR vehicles... 

[danblaze 144]

I flew this thing a lot and badly in a rush to get the mig 17, so my stats are bad, but this is the only plane up to 4.7 that can compete with the F4.

 

Basically, it's good because it has a monster climb rate, and holding elevator and rudder (S + Q, S +E) enables you to out turn anything, just like the F4. This plane's climb rate is so beast, that even at 375 kph, your climb rate is as good as the F4's best climb rate, and at steeper angles and resulting lower speeds, it's significantly better. (it's comparable to spitfire mk 24 but better at steeper angles and slightly worse at shallower)

 

But...as others have said, it's a little frail and it can go into flat spins when doing snap rolls (like S + E + D). Other factors like engine power while not wepping and changes of climb rate at higher altitudes, I'm not really sure about.

[WindRiver 112]

I spaded this thing; never used bombs with it (I'm not a bomber - sorry).

What I learned: climb, do not let M-71's speed drop under 350Km/h, climb, B&Z, keep your speed, do not turn fight! Make sure you know planes that are faster than you and avoid getting in a situation where you are chased by one;

I see that everyone say this thing can turn; Ok, maybe it does but I tried turn fight (not spaded no injection) and I had the impression that he's bleeding energy pretty fast plus if the speed is low (and I mean around 250km/h) its maneuverability was horrible; I think once I totally lost control of the damn thing at low speeds where other planes are controllable.

Try flying this thing as a jet

P.S. I'd love to see this thing out turning me in a BF 109 F-4... lol

[danblaze 144]

This thing climbs slightly better than the cannon bearcat at every angle and speed.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by danblaze
added slightly

[Tigerspook 315]

1 hour ago, danblaze said:

This thing climbs slightly better than the cannon bearcat at every angle and speed.

 

 

I have no experience with the cannon Bearcat (F8F?). Is this good, or bad, or just an observation?

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

35 minutes ago, Tigerspook said:

I have no experience with the cannon Bearcat (F8F?). Is this good, or bad, or just an observation?

F8F-1B climbs very well when fully spaded, so it's good for a I-185 to climb even better. I haven't fully spaded mine(I-185 M-71) so I cannot tell ,but one thing is for sure, when I'm flying my cannon bearcat I don't run from a I-185 

Edited February 21, 2017 by *sardinha08

[danblaze 144]

1 hour ago, Tigerspook said:

I have no experience with the cannon Bearcat (F8F?). Is this good, or bad, or just an observation?

 

Bearcat is a pretty damn good climber and plane. But it's at 6.3, and this is at 4.7.

 

The M71 is the third best prop climber in the game (I think). This is very helpful when spawn camping. If I were going to receive 1 billion dollars if I got fighters nightmare (10 kills) in my next match*, and F4 wasn't an option, I'd seriously be considering flying this.

 

* and I had to fly solo, no squading up

Edited February 21, 2017 by danblaze

[danblaze 144]

10 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

I've been flying BR 4.7 Russians for a while now and I don't see many people flying these. Why not? It isn't like there are a lot of other choices at this BR. When I do see one, I kill them. They are as easy to kill as P-400s. Compare to, say, J2Ms and Bf 109-G models, both of which are freaking UFOs. I avoid the former, but the Imp of the Perverse in me makes me want to test the G-2s.

 

 

In all my talk about how nothing can compete with the F4 below 4.7, I forgot how how amazing the J2M2 was.

 

J2M2 and F4 should be atleast 4.3. The U.S. and UK have nothing that can compete with them for air superiority even up to 4.7. They both climb better than the regular Mk 9 and the Mk XVI, though the hispanos are working pretty nicely nowadays.

 

 

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

1 hour ago, danblaze said:

In all my talk about how nothing can compete with the F4 below 4.7, I forgot how how amazing the J2M2 was.

 

J2M2 and F4 should be atleast 4.3. The U.S. and UK have nothing that can compete with them for air superiority even up to 4.7. They both climb better than the regular Mk 9 and the Mk XVI, though the hispanos are working pretty nicely nowadays.

Except for US Bf109 F-4  I use it in my 5.3-6.3 lineups without any problem, it's great to kill 6.0s by out turning them.