aircraft/loadouts East Germany Il-28

[Slipslime 660]

6 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

 

Which would be the German tree, as post war Germany didn't have any other jet bombers.

 

East Germany brings nothing to the game that couldn't be added with skins, as it was just a satellite state of the USSR. I don't see what you're getting at

[Borotovas 4,500]

30 minutes ago, Slipslime said:

East Germany brings nothing to the game that couldn't be added with skins, as it was just a satellite state of the USSR. I don't see what you're getting at

 

Possibly the fact that Germany will have no jet bombers for tier 6. East Germany was a major part of the Warsaw Pact, so even if they used a lot of Soviet equipment, they should be added to represent the reality on the ground.

 

No, skins won't do it, because you will still have a big hole in the German tree for tier 6.

 

And what will go after the German MiG-15bis? Clearly, it should be the MiG-17, because the East German aircraft line was already started.

[Slipslime 660]

17 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

 

Possibly the fact that Germany will have no jet bombers for tier 6. East Germany was a major part of the Warsaw Pact, so even if they used a lot of Soviet equipment, they should be added to represent the reality on the ground.

 

No, skins won't do it, because you will still have a big hole in the German tree for tier 6.

 

And what will go after the German MiG-15bis? Clearly, it should be the MiG-17, because the East German aircraft line was already started.

 

 

Mistakes can happen. I'm sure someone like you would argue some paper planes shouldn't be in game too, yet they are and no more have been added. Just because there is an East German plane doesn't mean there should be more

[Borotovas 4,500]

31 minutes ago, Slipslime said:

Mistakes can happen. I'm sure someone like you would argue some paper planes shouldn't be in game too, yet they are and no more have been added. Just because there is an East German plane doesn't mean there should be more

 

What paper planes are we talking about exactly?

 

So what should Germany get instead of East German planes? American West German planes? Science fiction WWII jets?

[Slipslime 660]

3 hours ago, Borotovas said:

 

What paper planes are we talking about exactly?

 

So what should Germany get instead of East German planes? American West German planes? Science fiction WWII jets?

I was referring to all paper planes currently in game. And Germany should only receive West German planes

[Borotovas 4,500]

9 minutes ago, Slipslime said:

I was referring to all paper planes currently in game. And Germany should only receive West German planes

 

What paper planes are currently in game?

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

Anyway, I don't support this. It's true that Germany doesn't have a lot at tier 5, but that is no reason to CTRL+V everything into it. Grinding Russia would become pointless and not unique.

[Borotovas 4,500]

3 hours ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

Anyway, I don't support this. It's true that Germany doesn't have a lot at tier 5, but that is no reason to CTRL+V everything into it. Grinding Russia would become pointless and not unique.

 

Not exactly, as you won't get a lot of Soviet planes and prototype jets if you grind the German tree, you won't get the full "Soviet" experience with flying East German aircraft. For example, you will never get to fly the La-200, or Yak-23 or MiG-9 or etc. in the East German tree. East German aircraft will be its own experience, through the eyes of East Germany.

[Retry 7,363]

On 3/1/2018 at 8:15 PM, Monguntiacum said:

 

So why not:

1) G.91 R/3 , german version (built in germany) and used as light bomber

2) Alpha Jet , german version

3) VFW-Fokker VAK 191 B

The first two are short-range light strike fighters, they're far closer to CAS craft like the IL-2 and A-1 Skyraider than tactical bombers like the IL-28.  The former's eventual introduction is almost inevitable (eventually), the latter will quite likely find itself in eventual T6 air sometime, and both perform well enough that they'll probably be used as ad hoc fighters anyways.

 

The VAK is basically a harrier wannabe prototype that was never armed, and shortly after was replaced by a US-German joint Advanced Vertical Strike Fighter program relegating the VAK to a technology demonstrator, giving it about as much legitimacy in-game as the Bell X-5.

[Borotovas 4,500]

1 hour ago, Retry said:

The first two are short-range light strike fighters, they're far closer to CAS craft like the IL-2 and A-1 Skyraider than tactical bombers like the IL-28.  The former's eventual introduction is almost inevitable (eventually), the latter will quite likely find itself in eventual T6 air sometime, and both perform well enough that they'll probably be used as ad hoc fighters anyways.

 

The VAK is basically a harrier wannabe prototype that was never armed, and shortly after was replaced by a US-German joint Advanced Vertical Strike Fighter program relegating the VAK to a technology demonstrator, giving it about as much legitimacy in-game as the Bell X-5.

 

The VAK 191 would be the most interesting, but indeed that's not a strategic bomber. It also carried no weapons, so its introduction in WT as a fully fledged fighter would make it fictional.

 

 

As stated, there's really nothing that can replace the Il-28. And if we have both East and West Germany, we could have planes from both countries in the same tree, which would include an East German MiG-17 and Il-28.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

3 hours ago, Borotovas said:

Not exactly, as you won't get a lot of Soviet planes and prototype jets if you grind the German tree, you won't get the full "Soviet" experience with flying East German aircraft. For example, you will never get to fly the La-200, or Yak-23 or MiG-9 or etc. in the East German tree. East German aircraft will be its own experience, through the eyes of East Germany.

 

All true, but nevertheless the feeling of uniqueness won't be there even with those circumstances. I think MiG-15bis GDR and CL-13 are enough for now. 

 

I'm worried about Germany's future rank VI, because it will most likely consist of copy-pastas from Russia and the U.S.

[Borotovas 4,500]

2 hours ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

All true, but nevertheless the feeling of uniqueness won't be there even with those circumstances. I think MiG-15bis GDR and CL-13 are enough for now. 

 

I'm worried about Germany's future rank VI, because it will most likely consist of copy-pastas from Russia and the U.S.

 

I believe it will still be there, because you have a lot of unique German WWII aircraft. It only reflects the actual historical situation as Germany was divided in two post WWII.

 

And the MiG-15bis and CL-13 is lacking against the MiG-17. I quench something more powerful. Well, it's easy to see that the MiG-17 is better than most of the aircraft at that BR.

 

As for German bombers, the Arado 234 in no way competes against 8.0 and 9.0 fighters/bombers. We need at least the Il-28.

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,499]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:42 PM, Borotovas said:

 

Germany usually fights on the USSR's side. So it makes sense to have the Il-28.

 

And they will be split in the future...

 

 

I understood what you meant, and no, we won't get this plane. 

 

 

These are just fantasy planes with no historical background. Gaijin already denied the EF 132. And even yet, if it was built for the USSR, wouldn't it be historically accurate to add it for the USSR and not Germany?

It wasn't without a basis for addition. It was thoroughly tested. It flew partially powered. It wasn't fantasy. It had a background. It was designed in Germany for Germany. The tests were done elsewhere. That is all.

[IOC_000 924]

Is there a thread for the EF 132? Since if there is that would be an ideal place to argue about it.

On this aircraft i'm pretty meh honestly; it's a lot like the T-55. It was used by east germany; yet the lack of a warsaw V nato MM makes it possible to fight with allies which would be ahistorical.

Personally i rather have it than paper planes or mockups.

[Ａｄｉｎｇｏ 388]

German Il-28? Sure if its premium, otherwise I dont see why skinned vehicles with completely original flight model (irony sheldon) should be on regular tech tree... Imo captured vehicles or vehicles that dont have an original damage model / flight model should stay as premiums...

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,499]

1 hour ago, IOC_000 said:

Is there a thread for the EF 132? Since if there is that would be an ideal place to argue about it.

On this aircraft i'm pretty meh honestly; it's a lot like the T-55. It was used by east germany; yet the lack of a warsaw V nato MM makes it possible to fight with allies which would be ahistorical.

Personally i rather have it than paper planes or mockups.

The 229 was an incomplete prototype that was cleared for production. They had a single prerequisite that the issues be ironed out. It already flew. After that they would mount ordnance or armament. The Ju EF was missing ordnance, powerplant, and defensive armament. It flew. After they tested it, they would have given it engines, bombs, and ordnance. There are a lot of other examples. If there were any other German jet bombers that flew under their own power directly (rather than by towing) then you should say something now. Do you have a better alternative? I'm not going to change my argument but I know there is one alternative. 

 

I know you know that there is a thread concerning the plane we are discussing. You commented on that thread. Why would you ask? That's asinine of you. If you have a problem then say something. Be direct.

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,499]

7 minutes ago, Azarias12 said:

German Il-28? Sure if its premium, otherwise I dont see why skinned vehicles with completely original flight model (irony sheldon) should be on regular tech tree... Imo captured vehicles or vehicles that dont have an original damage model / flight model should stay as premiums...

Aside from west German lend lease. There was a select few things that they could call their own in this regard. The Tornado, Alpha jet, and G.91R/3 are the 3 postwar aircraft that I can think of that would be appropriate but they aren't dedicated fighters that Germany needs to compete at tier 6. 

[IOC_000 924]

26 minutes ago, PickleJarOfDeath said:

The 229 was an incomplete prototype that was cleared for production. They had a single prerequisite that the issues be ironed out. It already flew. After that they would mount ordnance or armament. The Ju EF was missing ordnance, powerplant, and defensive armament. It flew. After they tested it, they would have given it engines, bombs, and ordnance. There are a lot of other examples. If there were any other German jet bombers that flew under their own power directly (rather than by towing) then you should say something now. Do you have a better alternative? I'm not going to change my argument but I know there is one alternative. 

 

I know you know that there is a thread concerning the plane we are discussing. You commented on that thread. Why would you ask? That's asinine of you. If you have a problem then say something. Be direct.

I actually forgot i commented lolz; but if gajin could find the sekrit documents on that plane in the russian archives as one user pointed out i would actually be fine with it.

I just don't understand why everyone wants these bombers; the capability of nations becomes highly asymmetrical after WWII with the US,USSR and GB having much more advanced aircraft with much more payload.

 

 

[Mr_Hunter_99 781]

not really fan of that Big slow plane which I like to kill more than flying but if community wants it then ok

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,499]

3 hours ago, IOC_000 said:

I actually forgot i commented lolz; but if gajin could find the sekrit documents on that plane in the russian archives as one user pointed out i would actually be fine with it.

I just don't understand why everyone wants these bombers; the capability of nations becomes highly asymmetrical after WWII with the US,USSR and GB having much more advanced aircraft with much more payload.

My personal prerequisite is full and proper design beyond just a concept, calculated performance, thorough testing, and a flight of some sort with a full scale airframe. This would mean very usable data although not perfect. An error margin of about 5% in either direction of the margin means you have a little wiggle room for balancing. It isn't elegant but it is workable.

[Borotovas 4,500]

14 hours ago, PickleJarOfDeath said:

It wasn't without a basis for addition. It was thoroughly tested. It flew partially powered. It wasn't fantasy. It had a background. It was designed in Germany for Germany. The tests were done elsewhere. That is all.

 

Maybe, but for cold war battles, the Il-28 would be better, like I said.

 

14 hours ago, IOC_000 said:

Is there a thread for the EF 132? Since if there is that would be an ideal place to argue about it.

On this aircraft i'm pretty meh honestly; it's a lot like the T-55. It was used by east germany; yet the lack of a warsaw V nato MM makes it possible to fight with allies which would be ahistorical.

Personally i rather have it than paper planes or mockups.

 

It's right here. But if we do get Warsaw Pact vs. NATO, then the Il-28 will be ideal.

 

 

[kev2go 5,112]

I say yes.

 

Germany lacks a Top tie 9.0 b.r bomber. They didnt have any in house designs ( west germany) so I feel that in this case Soviet Export Plane ( IL28) is warranted.

[Borotovas 4,500]

1 hour ago, kev2go said:

I say yes.

 

Germany lacks a Top tie 9.0 b.r bomber. They didnt have any in house designs ( west germany) so I feel that in this case Soviet Export Plane ( IL28) is warranted.

 

I agree. And most BR 9.0 battles with Germany are usually full of MiG-15s, and not Sabres. So it seems that German tech tree players prefer Soviet planes anyway for post war vehicles.

[CHTBAND_MrBones 128]

Pls no, even paper is better that copy&paste. Variety is what makes this game. Copy & paste kills variety.
germany has more than enough indigenous early jet bomber designs, i would rather have one or two of those.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

+1

Good idea. This is the only high tier German bomber that I can think of even if it's a Soviet hand-me down. I would ideally like to see more East German vehicles in the game as a way to help the Germans stay  competitive. I just don't think adding more WW2 era "paper" designs or prototypes is the best approach to this problem unless they're truly unique in some way.