tanks/vehicles Humber Armored Car

[CaID 8,996]

 

This Suggestion is in support of the Armored Cars research line project

 

i would like to introduce you a nice vehicles who will fit well in tier one. The Humber Armored car.

THe Humber Armored car was a combinaison of the Karrier KT4 and the Guy armored car. The KT4 was already in production for the Indian Army, and Guy were having problems with the production levels required. The turret was a two-men model, inspired by the one on the Mk.VI light tank. It was armed with a long barrel Besa 15mm. The armored body was sloped with a high driver compartment. The turret and fighting compartment were at the center. There were two reinforced armored hatches on both lower sides. Additional storage compartments were placed on the fenders and behind the side doors. These procured some extra protection. Sometimes a spare roadwheel was also carried, fastened to the front glacis or on the side, between the wheels. The Rootes engine was at the rear. It was dependable, but modifications were soon made to the ventilation grids, for North African service.

 

there is 5 Variation of the humber and i would like to offer non less than all five model.

the Humber AC Mk.I

Spoiler

 

This was the basic version, derived from the Guy Armoured Car. The armor was somewhat faultily adjusted, but these defects were corrected during production. 300 units of this type were built.

 

 

The Humber AC Mk.Ia

Spoiler

also called quad AA, was the anti-aircraft version, fitted with an open quartet of 7.92 mm (0.303 in) Besa machine guns with an adapted sight. These were meant to provide air cover for recce units, but Allied air superiority meant they were not needed, and only a handful were produced.

 

The Humber AC Mk.II

Spoiler

 

This was an upgrade, with some changes made to the turret, radiator and a completely redesigned frontal glacis armor. an OP version was also made.

 

 

 

The Humber AC Mk.III

Spoiler

 

This was a significant upgrade, with a wider, rear-extended turret conceived for three men, in order to accommodate a wireless operator, freeing the commander from this task. This allowed the fitting of heavier armament. A sub-variant eliminated the gun (replaced by a dummy) to make room for an extra Wireless No. 19 High Power radio and its generator, in order to operate as a mobile HQ. 1650 were produced between 1941 to 1942.

 

 

The Humber AC Mk.IV

Spoiler

 

This was the final and best upgrade, and also had the biggest production run. It was manufactured from 1942 to 1945. The crew reverted to three due to the adoption (in the same three-man turret) of a larger gun, the US-made M5 or M6 37 mm (1.46 in) gun. 2000+ were produced.

 

 

The Humber AC had a long carrier. developped in late 1930s, it was been deployed in north-Africa in 1941 employed it for its main purpose, reconnaissance. it was also use in several theaters of operation, notably in Eastern Africa, the Humbers took a more offensive role, with long range raids and patrols. In Europe, they were used by British & Canadian units, organically attached to the armored divisions, soldiering in Italy, France and the Low Countries. Others were deployed to patrol the Iranian supply route or were attached to Indian divisions operating in Burma against the Japanese. After war; the surplus Humbers were sold to Egypt (1948–49), Burma, Ceylon, Cyprus, Denmark, India, Mexico, the Netherlands and Portugal. A testimony to their sturdiness and reliability. In Indian service, the Humbers participated in Operation Polo in 1948 and formed the president bodyguard convoy escort during the 1962 Indo-China War expedition in the defense of the Chushul heights.

the Besa 15mm was use in many AC. It fired a 75 gram bullet from a  15x104mm cartridge with a muzzle velocity of 818.3 m/s (2,685 ft/s) at a rate of 450 rounds per minute . the BESA 15mm was able to use the AP and API bullet which had an penetration of about 27mm at 100m. The 15 mm Besa was fed from 25-round metal belts, which limited its practical rate of fire, although the weapon was usually used for single shots as it was difficult to fire accurately in automatic.

 

Now the specification.

Manufacturer	Rootes Group (Karrier)
No. built	5,400[1]
Specifications
Weight	5 t
Length	15 ft 1.5 in (4.610 m)
Width	7 ft 3 in (2.21 m)
Height	7 ft 10 in (2.39 m)
Crew	Mk I, II, IV: 3 Mk III: 4
Armour	15 mm
Main armament	Mk I-III: 15 mm Besa machine gun Mk IV: US made M5 or M6 37 mm gun
Secondary armament	7.92 mm Besa machine gun
Engine	Rootes 6 cyl petrol engine 90 hp (67 kW)
Power/weight	12.9 hp/tonne
Suspension	Wheel 4x4, rigid front and rear axles, rear-wheel drive with selectable four-wheel drive
Operational range	200 mi (320 km)
Speed	50 mph (80 km/h)

 

Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humber_Armoured_Car

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Humber_Armoured_Car.php

http://www.dday-overlord.com/eng/humber_armoured_car.htm

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Humber_Armoured_Car

https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/15mm-besa

https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/15mm-besa/armour-piercing-and-armour-piercing-tracer

 

Other British Armored cars included in the Armored Cars research line project

Guy Mk.I

Guy Mk.Ia

Humber AC MK.I

Humber AC MK.II

Humber AC MK.IV

Daimler AC Mk.I

Daimler AC Mk.II (added to Up-date 1.71)

Daimler AC Mk.I CS

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.I

Coventry Armored car Mk.I

Coventry Armored car Mk.II

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.II

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.III (57)

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.III (75)

T17E3

T17E1 Tulip 4

T17E1 Tulip 8

AEC AC Mk.I

AEC AC Mk.II

AEC AC Mk.III

FV601C Saladin

FV601a

FV721 Fox

Fox 25

Fox 76

Saladin 90

Furret Mk.II/VI

Furret Mk.V

Saladin Swinfire

Fox Milan

 

ther british lower rank vehicles (possible tier Zero)

  Hide contents

Light tank

Vicker Mk.V

Vickers Light Mk.VIa

Vickers Light Mk.VIb

Vickers Light Mk.VIc

 

Medium tank

Vickers Medium Mark I

Vickers Medium Mark Ia

Vickers Medium Mark Ia*

Vickers Medium Mark I CS

Vickers Medium Mark II

Vickers Medium Mark II*

Vickers Medium Mark IIa

Vickers Medium Mark II**

Vickers Medium Mark II tropical

Vickers medium Mark II CS

A6

A6E3

Medium Mark III E1

Medium Mark III E2

 

Armored car

Guy Mk.I

Guy Mk.Ia

Humber Mk.I

Humber Mk.II

Humber Mk.III

 

SPG

Bren Gun Carrier .55 Boy

Vickers 2pdr SPG

 

SPAA

Beaverette Mk III aa

Humber Mk.Ia

Edited May 19, 2018 by CaID
add the BESA 15mm info

[blakeob 8,086]

Open for discussion. 

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

+1, Any idea on the penetration of that 15mm Besa? I imagine it could go through a little bit more armour than an M2 Browning.

 

Also that AA variant looks like a good candidate for Tier 1 BR 1.0 AA.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Time4Tea

[CaID 8,996]

4 minutes ago, Time4Tea said:

+1, Any idea on the penetration of that 15mm Besa? I imagine it could go through a little bit more armour than an M2 Browning.

 

Also that AA variant looks like a good candidate for Tier 1 BR 1.0 AA.

i put more infos about the 15mm besa. i will also add it here. it was about 27mm at 100yard. this should be sufficient for most tier 1 tank.

Edited April 14, 2017 by CaID

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

9 minutes ago, CaID said:

i put more infos about the 15mm besa. i will also add it here. it was about 27mm at 100yard. this should be sufficient for most tier 1 tank.

Its better than that actually

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

2 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Its better than that actually

Wow, now that is impressive.

[CaID 8,996]

23 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Its better than that actually

let me be skeptical about that sheet. i did the krupp calculation and i get 25mm at the muzzle. the 27mm was the data i got from the source i linked in the end of the post and the 27 actually make sense. that sheet could be wrote by anyone. do you have any source that i could read before actually change the penetration i got?

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

3 minutes ago, CaID said:

let me be skeptical about that sheet. i did the krupp calculation and i get 25mm at the muzzle. the 27mm was the data i got from the source i linked in the end of the post and the 27 actually make sense. that sheet could be wrote by anyone. do you have any source that i could read before actually change the penetration i got?

I got it from the tank historian Listy, I'd have to ask him for the direct source of the chart.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

I should mention that in the book Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army, by Roger V. Lucy, there is mention of a Humber AC armed with a Hispano-Suiza 20mm that was successfully trialed at Lulworth. The Canadians wanted to do the same with their equivalent to the Humber, the Fox AC, but the turret was considered too cramped to fit the gun and its magazines (they thought it might have worked with a belt-feed though).

Edited April 14, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[CaID 8,996]

1 minute ago, Mercedes4321 said:

I should mention that in the book Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army, by Roger V. Lucy, there is mention of a Humber AC armed with a Hispano-Suiza 20mm that was successfully trialed at Lulworth. The Canadians wanted to the same with their equivalent to the Humber, the Fox AC, but the turret was considered too cramped to fit the gun and its magazines (they thought it might have worked with a belt-feed though).

interresting vehicles. does it was ever built?

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Just now, CaID said:

interresting vehicles. does it was ever built?

The Humber AC with the 20mm Hispano-Suiza was built, as it underwent trials. The Fox AC with the 20mm was not built.

[CaID 8,996]

4 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

The Humber AC with the 20mm Hispano-Suiza was built, as it underwent trials. The Fox AC with the 20mm was not built.

i hardly can find anything about the humber 20mm hispano-suiza. i will keep looking and add it if i find anything to strengthen my suggestion.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Just now, CaID said:

i hardly can find anything about the humber 20mm hispano-suiza. i will keep looking and add it if i find anything to strengthen my suggestion.

Its mentioned in obscure Canadian and British archive files dug up by Roger V. Lucy for his book, finding much on the internet is unlikely.

[CaID 8,996]

1 minute ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Its mentioned in obscure Canadian and British archive files dug up by Roger V. Lucy for his book, finding much on the internet is unlikely.

i have access to the military Museum in ottawa. i will look in the archive next time i go there.

[Exiahhh 38]

This would be cool addition to the start of a wheeled vehicle line in the British tech tree +1

[Jarms 1,558]

On 14/04/2017 at 9:08 AM, CaID said:

The BESA 15mm was able to use the AP and API bullet which had an penetration of about 27mm at 100m. 

 

It may have actually been more than that. 

 

Spoiler

 

• Ammunition used: 15mm MK1-z
• C immunity: the mean of the lowest Velocity to give a cracked bulge and that of the next lowest round which did not give a Cracked bulge
• C/D: 50% of the rounds not to give a Cracked bulge
• Ballistic Limits (BL): 50% of the rounds not to give bulges cracked so badly as to admit daylight.
• W/R: Approximately 50% of the rounds estimated to be clean gun wins

Depending on what you want to consider as a penetration. Using the w/r we're looking at ~33mm of penetration at 100m.

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Jarms

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

2 minutes ago, Jarms said:

 

It may have actually been more than that. 

 

  Hide contents

 

• Ammunition used: 15mm MK1-z
• C immunity: the mean of the lowest Velocity to give a cracked bulge and that of the next lowest round which did not give a Cracked bulge
• C/D: 50% of the rounds not to give a Cracked bulge
• Ballistic Limits (BL): 50% of the rounds not to give bulges cracked so badly as to admit daylight.
• W/R: Approximately 50% of the rounds estimated to be clean gun wins

Depending on what you want to consider as a penetration. Using the w/r we're looking at ~33mm of penetration at 100m.

 

I already showed him that chart, but he was skeptical.

[_EQUAI_ 356]

Got to love British Armored cars +1

[onemax9000 1,243]

+1

[Wilhuff_Tarkin_ 467]

+1

[Milocat 4,857]

I can't believe I didn't see this topic before now.  Awesome research and an excellent suggestion!  I love the Humber models and I'd like to see them all in the game.  +5.

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.