ground vehicles Alvis Saladin AC

[CaID 8,996]

 

This Suggestion is in support of the Armored Cars research line project

 

I would like to introduce you the first suggestion of the cold war era in the Armored car. the Alvis Saladin.

 

The Alvis Saladin was designed in 1954 to remplace the AEC armored car who was still in service in the british army. the New Alvis Saladin was a successful tank for export. the new 6x6 design offered an very good grab on the offroad compared to the other Armored car of the British army who was all 4x4. the Alvis Saladin performed particularly well in the desert. the wheel with independent torsion bar units. It gave a rather short turning circle and agility off-road. the Saladin was a compact and small design, especially compared to the AC which its replaced. The other great novelty was its fully enclosed compartment which can be NBC-proofed if needed. The general design is conventional: Rear engine, central fighting compartment with a two-men turret and front driving compartment. The hull was made of welded steel plates, 13 mm thick on the sides to 32 mm on the front glacis plate, which was enough against even large autocannons. Despite this, the small hull had the vehicle still under 11,6 tons.  The driver was posted in the center with a folding vision hatch and sight slit. Two other sight slits were present on each sides, covering the front angle, protected by deflectors. The turret had a narrow sloped face and the sides had a rear recess shaping a half-lozenge back plate. The gunner and commander were side by side, with one-piece hatches. The gunner had a single persicope, while the commander had three covering the front angle and a pintle-mounted cal.30. The gunner was responsible for the medium-velocity 75 mm Royal Ordnance Factory L5A1 gun that could fire a variety of HE, AP and HESH rounds.

 

The Saladin had quite a success in the middle east, perhaps its name was not foreign to this, as Saladin is a legendary figure in the Arab world. Indeed, it was purchased by Jordan, Oman, Qatar, Kuweit, Lebanon and the United Arab Emirates. It was a cheap and tempting proposition by default of purchasing true tanks and sold well in Africa too (Ghana, Kenya, Libya, Mauritania, Tunisia, Sudan, Uganda, Yemen), in Asia (Indonesia, Maldives, Sri Lanka) Europe (German federal police, Portugal (29 in 1982) and even Honduras in South America.

Oman purchased 36 vehicles which were actively in action with the Sultan of Oman armed forces throughout the Dhofar conflict (1972-76) often crewed with British servicemen, covering patrols and giving close fire support to the British SAS, Oman Firqa, Oman regulars and Iranian forces. British vehicles of the B sqn 16/5 Lancers defended Nicosia airport in 1974 under the UN banner. Later on, Kuwaiti vehicles defended the city against Iraqi tanks as they could in 1990.

the FV601C Alvis Saladin
 

Spoiler

 

it was the produced FV601 as we know it with an Highpressure 76mm gun. used for infantry support role but some country also use it as a cheaper tank alternative.

 

 

The FV601A (Prototype)

Spoiler

The Original design of the FV601, using an upgraded OQF 2pounder gun. the design was abandoned at the pre-production in favor of the FV601C who carry the 76 mm L5A1 gun gun and was more efficiant for infantry support role. the gun of the FV601A was an 2-pdr HV 'Pipsqueak' using a 40x438R cartridge. This was designed to fire Armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) rounds, which would match the penetration of the 'Littlejohn' shot while still allowing high-explosive (HE) shells to be fired. In fact, the claimed performance was better, the 1,295 m/s shot penetrating 85mm of armour at 60 degrees at 900m.

 

Alvis Saladin Swingfire (Prototype)

Spoiler

For higher rank Vehicles. the Alvis Saladin tested to carry 2 ATGM Swingfire Missiles on the turret and 2 other in reserve. the alvis Saladin Swingfire was a prototype and few Information was found yet.

 

AlSaladin 90. (Prototype)

Spoiler

 

it's a FV601 with a 90mm 90/46 KEnerga Mark 8. the turret was longer to accommodate the new gun and the ammunition. this was a prototype of the late 1980s meant to be exported. at least a prototype was tested

ç

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The gun of the Alvis Saladin was ROF L5A1 76mm low-pressure smoothbore cannon which fired the same ammunition as that mounted on the FV101 Scorpion.

 

Production history
Designer	Crossley Motors
Designed	1954[1]
Manufacturer	Alvis
Produced	1958-1972[2]
No. built	1,177
Specifications
Weight	11.6 t
Length	4.93 m
Width	2.54 m
Height	2.39 m
Crew	3
Armor	Turret front = 32mm Turret side = 13mm Turret rear = 13mm Hull front = 32mm Hull side = 13mm Hull rear = 13mm Top/bottom = 8mm
Main armament	76 mm L5A1 gun
Secondary armament	2 x M1919A4 machine guns
Engine	Rolls-Royce B80 Mk.6A, 8 cyl petrol 170 hp (127 kW)
Power/weight	15.5 hp/tonne
Suspension	6x6 wheel
Operational range	400 km
Speed	72 km/h

 

Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Saladin

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=423

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/UK/Alvis_Saladin.php

http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/CC01 - Saladin.html

http://www.scorpiontank.co.uk/html/ContentsSummaryPgs/76mmGunSupport.html

http://www.scorpiontank.co.uk/PDFs/Contents/76mm Main Gun Technical Briefing (8 November 2011).pdf

http://strangernn.livejournal.com/801768.html

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=1440

 

Other British Armored cars included in the Armored Cars research line project

Guy Mk.I

Guy Mk.Ia

Humber AC MK.I

Humber AC MK.II

Humber AC MK.IV

Daimler AC Mk.I

Daimler AC Mk.II (added to Up-date 1.71)

Daimler AC Mk.I CS

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.I

Coventry Armored car Mk.I

Coventry Armored car Mk.II

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.II

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.III (57)

T17E1 Stanghound Mk.III (75)

T17E3

T17E1 Tulip 4

T17E1 Tulip 8

AEC AC Mk.I

AEC AC Mk.II

AEC AC Mk.III

FV601C Saladin

FV601a

FV721 Fox

Fox 25

Fox 76

Saladin 90

Furret Mk.II/VI

Furret Mk.V

Saladin Swinfire

Fox Milan

 

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by CaID
addind the FV601a

[blakeob 8,086]

Open for discussion. 

[Giobhas 1,095]

As alwais, YES for armored cars

[_EQUAI_ 356]

*Armored cars Intensifies* I support this as well!

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

When I get home I have a few more variants of the Saladin I'll post here.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

+1. Information from a document I found suggests that the HESH round was effective against more than 64mm of armour but less than 102mm or armour:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

22 minutes ago, Time4Tea said:

+1. Information from a document I found suggests that the HESH round was effective against more than 64mm of armour but less than 102mm or armour:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few places range the penetration as on average between 80 and 90mm.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

1 minute ago, Mercedes4321 said:

A few places range the penetration as on average between 80 and 90mm.

That seems to fit with what is shown In that document. The effectiveness of the HESH round against the Comet's mantlet would have only dazed the crew.

[CaID 8,996]

49 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

A few places range the penetration as on average between 80 and 90mm.

i also saw 80mm in a unreliable site. i also saw there was AP shell as well.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

5 minutes ago, CaID said:

i also saw 80mm in a unreliable site. i also saw there was AP shell as well.

The 90mm penetration figure comes from Jane's Ammunition, by the way.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

10 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

The 90mm penetration figure comes from Jane's Ammunition, by the way.

90mm at any angle would be good enough at a BR of 6.3/6.7 maybe?

Edited April 14, 2017 by Time4Tea

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

15 minutes ago, Time4Tea said:

90mm at any angle would be good enough at a BR of 6.3/6.7 maybe?

One thing to keep in mind is that HESH currently has an RNG element to it of +- 20% to its listed penetration.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

2 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

One thing to keep in mind is that HESH currently has an RNG element to it of +- 20% to its listed penetration.

Ah, so thats what has been causing 120mm HESH to often fail on Tiger 2 UFP's. Perhaps a BR of 6.0? The offroad speed of the Saladin and low velocity of it's 76mm should also be considered.

[CaID 8,996]

1 hour ago, Time4Tea said:

Ah, so thats what has been causing 120mm HESH to often fail on Tiger 2 UFP's. Perhaps a BR of 6.0? The offroad speed of the Saladin and low velocity of it's 76mm should also be considered.

it's to Gaijin to decide the final BR of a tank. tanking in consideration the HESH shell ignore the angle and of the tank, i think it could make it in tier4. but you need to remember thant the british have the 2pndr at tier one who can penetrate better in medium range.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

5 minutes ago, CaID said:

it's to Gaijin to decide the final BR of a tank. tanking in consideration the HESH shell ignore the angle and of the tank, i think it could make it in tier4. but you need to remember thant the british have the 2pndr at tier one who can penetrate better in medium range.

The penetration for HESH is the same for all angles and distances though.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

13 minutes ago, CaID said:

it's to Gaijin to decide the final BR of a tank. tanking in consideration the HESH shell ignore the angle and of the tank, i think it could make it in tier4. but you need to remember thant the british have the 2pndr at tier one who can penetrate better in medium range.

Funny you mention the 2 pounder, the FV601A used an improved version of that cannon with an APDS round.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

1 minute ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Funny you mention the 2 pounder, the FV601A used an improved version of that cannon with an APDS round.

You mean the pipsqueak? IIRC it had the same performance as the Little John.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

1 minute ago, Time4Tea said:

You mean the pipsqueak? IIRC it had the same performance as the Little John.

It was better than it from what I've read, though the initial requirement was just to match that round.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

how the hell have all these kickass armored cars gone unnoticed for all this time? +1

[CaID 8,996]

1 hour ago, admiral_aruon said:

how the hell have all these kickass armored cars gone unnoticed for all this time? +1

well. about every nation had their Armored car. i know that the German Armored car was often suggested but the think is if we don't incorporate a full line of armored car all at once, we aren't likely to see much of them except for SPAG or SPAA. and adding a full line would need 5 to 7 Armored car to be added in 5 different tier to make sense. right now i pretty much cover every tier until tier 5.

[Wilhuff_Tarkin_ 467]

4 hours ago, Time4Tea said:

90mm at any angle would be good enough at a BR of 6.3/6.7 maybe?

As a post war vehicle firing HESH 7.0 rank V is minimum. Still good enough to flank and knock out light targets, Spaags, and medium tanks from a side.

[CaID 8,996]

2 hours ago, Time4Tea said:

The penetration for HESH is the same for all angles and distances though.

it would need to be on the tank's default shell or it would be a pain in the *** to get it

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

1 minute ago, CaID said:

it would need to be on the tank's default shell or it would be a pain in the *** to get it

Depends how good the performance of the AP round you mentioned is. The HE round wouldn't be very effective I imagine.

[CaID 8,996]

1 minute ago, Wilhuff_Tarkin_ said:

As a post war vehicle firing HESH 7.0 rank V is minimum. Still good enough to flank and knock out light targets, Spaags, and medium tanks from a side.

the centurion is also a post war vehicles. the Battle Rating is how you rate his performance in battle and should not be about what shell it may use. 80 or 90mm is still low. remember the velocity of the gun is also low and it would need to get under 500m to get a good accuracy. the tank is fast but performe bad offroad. the tank is small but cannot tank much hit. it may even get the hull break from most enemy. i think the BR.6.0 is good enough.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

3 minutes ago, CaID said:

the centurion is also a post war vehicles. the Battle Rating is how you rate his performance in battle and should not be about what shell it may use. 80 or 90mm is still low. remember the velocity of the gun is also low and it would need to get under 500m to get a good accuracy. the tank is fast but performe bad offroad. the tank is small but cannot tank much hit. it may even get the hull break from most enemy. i think the BR.6.0 is good enough.

Define performing bad off road, from memory it was actually quite decent. A lot of vehicles can't take a hit, and that won't change no matter what battle rating you put it at.