tanks/vehicles IDF Sho’t kal Alef (1974)

[Ta_Kanata18 1,109]

 

History

 

The Sh'ot-Kal tank is an Israeli MBT based on Centurion, but with a 105 millimeter gun barrel and an american diesel engine AVDS-1790 and added new transmission CD850 so that there is spares compatibility with other Israeli tanks like the M48 and M60 (Magach).

The vast majority of MBT on the Golan in 1973 were Shot-Kal (upgraded Centurion) as the IDF preferred them due to the harsh (lava) nature of the ground. The Patton series of tank were used in the south where the sandy terrain better suited torsion bar suspension and rubber block track. It was also recognised that any attack would be unidirectional (i.e. from Syria straight at the defensive lines rather than mobile attacks in the desert due to the terrain and minefields) which the frontal armour on Centurion was more likely to be resistant to than M48/M60. 109, M107, M50 howitzer Sherman, Soltam 160mm mortar, Centurion ARV, M113, CJ5 recce jeeps, ½ tracks.

The big difficulty with the Shot is that as it has been in service so long, none is currently in its original configuration. Later in their operational lives Sh'ot Kal were prepared for the installation of ERA but most never actually had it fitted. The Shot-Kal Mk. D [also named “Brak-Or” (‘lightning light’ in Hebrew)] is tank is equipped with a thermal ‘sleeve’ on the gun tube, IS-10 smoke discharges and full BLAZER reactive add-on armor suit.

By 2002 the Centurion tanks had been retired from the IDF, after this tanks were in reserve forces (in late 1980's) because the Magach and Merkava (Mk1, Mk2, Mk3) tanks replace them in the battle field. But with the entry of Merkava Mk4 tanks the Centurion tanks were retired from the IDF.

 

This suggestion is the first sub model of Sho’t Kal

 

Specification

Dimensions	35.43 oa/24.6 x 11.48 x 9.51 ft (10.8 oa/7.5 m x 3.5 m x 2.9 m)
Total weight, battle ready	56-58 tons
Crew	4 (driver, Cdr, gunner, loader)
Propulsion	Continental AVDS-1790-2A diesel 750 hp @2400 rpm and 1575 torque Ib-feet @1750 rpm
Transmission	Allison CD850-6
Suspension	Torsion bars
Speed (road)	Est. 48 kph (30 mph)
Range	Unknown
Armament	105 mm rifled main gun (4.7 in), 2x 7.62 mm, 1x 12.7 mm MGs
Armor	Same as Centurion Mk3
Conversion	390 in 1970-1986

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion this will be a good Centurion for British tech tree.   Source: http://www.ipmsusa.org/reviews2/mil-veh/books/various-publ/sabinga_centurion-idf.htm http://idf-armor.blogspot.com/2009/01/cast-lead-gaza-operation-2009.html http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Israel/Shot-MBT.php

Edited May 12, 2017 by Ta_Kanata18

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

[Results45 2,200]

So.......either a British premium or International Tree filler?

[Retry 7,363]

5 hours ago, Ta_Kanata18 said:

In my opinion this will be a good Centurion for British tech tree and will leave some option for future ERA package

Needs a "Yes, but not in the British tree" option.

_{^{(Keep to your Commonwealth ya bloody desert rats)}}

[Results45 2,200]

42 minutes ago, Retry said:

Needs a "Yes, but not in the British tree" option.

_{^{(Keep to your Commonwealth ya bloody desert rats)}}

 

Same goes for lend-lease and exported T-34s, Shermans & Pattons anywhere other than US, Russia, Canada, and Britain -- especially Chilean, Cuban, Chinese, Egyptian, Israeli, Indian, and Yugoslavian variants, . 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Results45

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

37 minutes ago, Retry said:

Needs a "Yes, but not in the British tree" option.

_{^{(Keep to your Commonwealth ya bloody desert rats)}}

I would personally only like to see the Sho't kal in the British tree if there was literally no other option.

[BucketOfKnobs 81]

Its a no from me, why would we need an Israeli variant when we can have a British one? The Mk.5/2 I think is just about the same as this gun wise and armour wise.

Edited May 12, 2017 by BucketOfKnobs

[Results45 2,200]

44 minutes ago, BucketOfKnobs said:

Its a no from me, why would we need an Israeli variant when we can have a British one? The Mk.5/2 I think is just about the same as this gun wise and armour wise.

 

If you read the last few posts, this variant of the Centurion doesn't have to be in the British Tree. 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Just now, Results45 said:

 

If you read the last few posts, this variant of the Centurion doesn't have to be in the British Tree. 

I would prefer to see one of the Olifants in the British tree before something like the Sho't kal to be honest.

[Ta_Kanata18 1,109]

48 minutes ago, BucketOfKnobs said:

Its a no from me, why would we need an Israeli variant when we can have a British one? The Mk.5/2 I think is just about the same as this gun wise and armour wise.

Mobility upgrade (750 vs 650) and future ERA package.

[Retry 7,363]

3 minutes ago, Ta_Kanata18 said:

Mobility upgrade (750 vs 650) and future ERA package.

Also Israeli, not Commonwealth.  Israel has stronger military ties w/ US than Britain, so these and other Israeli vehicles, if they aren't added as an independent faction, would end up in the US TT somewhere.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

13 minutes ago, Ta_Kanata18 said:

Mobility upgrade (750 vs 650) and future ERA package.

Adding the Vickers MBT Mk 3 would cover that nicely. The Commonwealth nation of Malaysia ordered a specific variant of that vehicle known as the Vickers MBT Mk 3/M which included ERA blocks. The speed of the Vickers MBT series would also cover your mobility upgrade concerns.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[BucketOfKnobs 81]

14 minutes ago, Results45 said:

 

If you read the last few posts, this variant of the Centurion doesn't have to be in the British Tree. 

I know it doesn't have to be, but when there is a choice between a British and a country that has not been in this game at all, I would choose the British. Plus the Israeli army is more American than British which puts this tank in a weird place.

10 minutes ago, Ta_Kanata18 said:

Mobility upgrade (750 vs 650) and future ERA package.

I already knew about the mobility upgrade and I am very against ERA coming to this game.

[Conraire 5,723]

I'd be ok with it being added.  But only if they do an international tree that includes an Israeli vehicles branch, among others.  Would be especially good for the international tree since Israel had some pretty interesting conversions of their gifted/lend lease vehicles.

[Results45 2,200]

41 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

I would prefer to see one of the Olifants in the British tree before something like the Sho't kal to be honest.

 

Maybe the Olifant Mk.1 (it is South African so it pretty much falls in the same boat as the Israeli Sho't-Kal), but the passive-composite Mk.1A should be in the International Tree.

 

32 minutes ago, Retry said:

Also Israeli, not Commonwealth.  Israel has stronger military ties w/ US than Britain, so these and other Israeli vehicles, if they aren't added as an independent faction, would end up in the US TT somewhere.

 

That would set the precedent for things like Super Sherman and M48/60 Magach to be in the US Tree too. IMO it would serve best as filler/premium in the ITTT. 

 

28 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Adding the Vickers MBT Mk 3 would cover that nicely. The Commonwealth nation of Malaysia ordered a specific variant of that vehicle known as the Vickers MBT Mk 3/M which included ERA blocks

 

Then add the Centurion Action X, Vickers Mk.3, Mk.4, and FV4211 for the British Tree then (instead of the Sho't-Kal and Olifant Mk.1).

Edited May 12, 2017 by Results45

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

28 minutes ago, Results45 said:

 

Maybe the Olifant Mk.1 (it is South African so it pretty much falls in the same boat as the Israeli Sho't-Kal), but the passive-composite Mk.1A should be in the International Tree.

But South Africa is a Commowealth nation though . . .

 

Also, the Mk 1A does not have passive composite (in fact its barely different from a basic Mk 1 other than a handheld laser rangefinder for the gunner), the Mk 1B was the one that introduced the composite armour package.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

ehhhh i'd say only be part of US or UK/commonwealth tree if gaijin states that there will NEVER EVER be an intl. tech tree, israeli tech tree, and/or israeli inclusion is a current or future tech tree.

 

maybe, MAYBE, as a one-time only event vehicle or if gaijin is teasing the future of israeli vehicles in WT.

 

 

sometime i'd really like if gaijin makes a wide statement about who and what is to be associated with current nations and their tech trees...

[Results45 2,200]

6 minutes ago, admiral_aruon said:

ehhhh i'd say only be part of US or UK/commonwealth tree if gaijin states that there will NEVER EVER be an intl. tech tree, israeli tech tree, and/or israeli inclusion is a current or future tech tree.

 

maybe, MAYBE, as a one-time only event vehicle or if gaijin is teasing the future of israeli vehicles in WT.

 

sometime i'd really like if gaijin makes a wide statement about who and what is to be associated with current nations and their tech trees...

 

Yes they could be much more transparent about their intentions and consideration of community ideas (or even just more contributive and supportive on the Senior Mod/CM-Admin side of things), but alas they are Russian so they are not   

Edited May 12, 2017 by Results45

[Ta_Kanata18 1,109]

FV4211 have composite.

FV4030/2 is better.

 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

7 hours ago, Results45 said:

Then add the Centurion Action X, Vickers Mk.3, Mk.4, and FV4211 for the British Tree then (instead of the Sho't-Kal and Olifant Mk.1).

Well two of those have composite armour, so I'm not sure how likely those are to show up any time soon. Again, I don't see any issue with the Olifant as South Africa is a Commonwealth nation.

[CaID 8,996]

the way i see the sub-nation under the main nation such as the commonwealth nation under the british tree, i would said the Israeli should be under the USA as premium or gift. at least for me it would make sense. since Israel history was grandly influenced by the USA and the direct support from the USA to Israel in every aspect since the dawn of the modern Israel, i just think it should be normal to be matched with the USA.

Edited May 12, 2017 by CaID

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

3 hours ago, CaID said:

the way i see the sub-nation under the main nation such as the commonwealth nation under the british tree, i would said the Israeli should be under the USA as premium or gift. at least for me it would make sense. since Israel history was grandly influenced by the USA and the direct support from the USA to Israel in every aspect since the dawn of the modern Israel, i just think it should be normal to be matched with the USA.

 

this.

 

aside from the Sho't Kal Alef being a nativized Centurion model, anglo-israeli relations have kind of almost always ranged from cordial but cool to total crap, with the only truly bright point being anglo-franco-israeli cooperation in the Suez Crisis. other than that israel has kind of always been a thorn in the side of the UK.

 

if an israeli tank is ever added; outside an international or otherwise composite tech tree; it'd be associated with the US.

[LuftMaus 6,185]

if bring Israeli tanks to the game bring also technicals to fight them)))

8 minutes ago, admiral_aruon said:

if an israeli tank is ever added; outside an international or otherwise composite tech tree; it'd be associated with the US.

)))

[Coffeeholic 58]

GAIJIN PLEASE GIVE US A CENTURION WITH EXPLOSIVE REACTIVE ARMOR! I DON'T CARE WHICH! EITHER THIS SHO'T KAL OR THE SWEDISH STRV 104! PLZ!

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

On 5/12/2017 at 2:51 PM, Admiral_Aruon said:

if an israeli tank is ever added; outside an international or otherwise composite tech tree; it'd be associated with the US.

 

if i may indulge my ego for a moment (i have self-esteem issues so this doesn't happen often) can i just say i totally called it!

 

 

sure there MIGHT be the possibility of the (or at least a version of the) Sh'ot Kal being included with the brits simply because it IS a centurion chassis after all, but the likelihood that even foreign-sourced israeli tanks might find themselves in the US tree somehow just increased due to a now established precedent.

 

EDIT: and i agree with Coffeeholic.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Admiral_Aruon