gameplay Leopard Prototype Series: Germany post-war Vehicles

[Capt_D_K_Marcus 169]

Greetings everyone !

 

At the moment the Germans are in need of some post-war vehicles in their line up to compete with other nations in the game. Today I would like to suggest some of the early variants of the Leopard tank series.

 

Info:

Early development of the Leopard series dates back in the mid-1950s when West Germany was allowed itself to rebuild (with NATO’s approval) its military defensive force in case of a Soviet threat. The main battle tank was part of this plan, and at the time Franco-German relationships were at the highest. So a project of common MBT was envisioned since both countries had similar specifications of what tank they wanted. The project was known later as the “Europanzer” and would have equipped the Germans to replace supplied US-supplied tanks like the M47 and M48. The MBT project, also known as the Standard-Panzer project in Germany, started in November 1956, The specifications require a 30 metric tons weight, a P/W ratio of 30 hp/ton, armor capable of resisting rapid-fire 20 mm (0.79 in) hits, and to be equipped with either a 90mm Rheinmetall or the new British L7 105 mm (4.13 in) rifled gun. Later in the production of the Leopard series, it was decided to use the L7A3 105mm gun as the tank primary weapon. Three groups worked on the project: Team A (Porsche) Team B (Rheinstahl-Henschel) Team C (Borgward). By 1960, Six of the series I prototypes were tested and the German military command ordered the production of the prototype II series of the tanks. Two groups: team A (Porsche) and team B(Rheinstahl-Henschel) completed a total of 32 prototype II series of the Leopard tanks by 1961. The Porsche Prototype II was eventually selected as the winner of the contest in 1963 and soon later production of the modern Leopard 1 went into military service into the German armed forces.

 

Now that you have the history of the production of these tanks, here are the vehicles that I suggest would be useful on the German tank tree.

 

1.  Leopard Prototype I A (Porsche)

 

 

 

The prototype I A was armed with the 90mm Rheinmetall BK90 gun.

(I was unable to find this exact photo of this variant with the 90mm gun, but the hull and and turret of this tank is same as if it had the 90mm gun)

 

2. Leopard Prototype I B (Rheinstahl-Henschel)

 

 

 

The prototype I B was armed with the 90mm Rheinmetall BK90 gun.

 

3. Leopard Prototype II A (Porsche)

 

 

 

Prototype II A had a slight modification to its hull and armor upgrades. It maintains its L7 105mm gun.

 

4. Leopard Prototype II B (Henschel / Rheinmetall)

 

 

 

Prototype II B has an upgraded suspension and hull design. The vehicle also upgraded from the Rheinmetall 90mm gun to the L7 105mm gun.

 

-Overall, the suggested vehicles I have chosen total up to four tanks.

-Two Prototype A series and Two Prototype B series.

-BR for these tanks would be at around 7.0-7.3 (Note: BR for vehicles are decided by the developers themselves).

 

Here is a data chart of the engine, suspension, main gun, and statistics of the Leopard Prototype series: 

 

Sources:

[1] http://www.panzerpower.de/ger/leo1_geschichte.htm
[2] http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/bw_kpz_leopard_1-a.htm
[3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Dieselmotoren_für_militärische_Rad-_und_Kettenfahrzeuge_der_MTU_Friedrichshafen
[4] KPz Leopard 1: 1956-2003 (Rolf Holmes)
[5] http://preservedtanks.com/Types.aspx?TypeCategoryId=400
[6] Leopard 1 MBT in German Army Service - Early Years
[7] Leopard 1 Main Battle Tank 1965–95

 

 

Here is a graph with a timeline of the Leopard prototype versions:

 

 

 

More Photos of the Leopard prototype series:

 

Leopard Prototype I A:

   

 

 

Leopard Prototype I B:

 

 

Leopard Prototype II A

 

 

Leopard Prototype II B:

 

 

So why have these tanks in-game ?

By adding these post-war vehicles I think It would put Germany on par with the other nations in the game and would balance out the gameplay of the Matchmaking.

 

 

Sidenote:

Some of the information are from various books and online sites. If there is any misinformation I posted here, please fell free to put them in the comments below.

Thank you !

 

Main Sources:

Leopard 1 MBT in German Army Service - Early Years  Frank Lobitz (Book)

kampfpanzer Leopard 1 mit neuen dimensionen im panzerbau (translation: Battle tank Leopard 1 with new dimensions in panzerbau) Von Michael Scheibert (Book)

Tank Encyclopedia: http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/West_Germany/Leopard-I.php (Web)

 

Other Sources:

http://www.panzerpower.de/ger/leo1_geschichte.htm

http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/bw_kpz_leopard_1-a.htm

http://preservedtanks.com/Types.aspx?TypeCategoryId=400

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Capt_D_K_Marcus
Clarification of the vehicles. Additional tank data.

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

 

However, the Leopard Prototype A Porsche has already been suggested and passed to development.

 

Having said that, this suggestion will be treated as a suggestion for the other Prototypes in the Leopard Family.

 

As a kind reminder, please remember to check of a plane/tank has already been suggested by viewing our suggestions list HERE.

 

I also adjusted poll for better quality and corrected the prefix.

[WulfPack 1,693]

How do the L7 armed ones differ from the Leopard 1?

[HauptmannTherefa 9]

Germany now desperately need a buff at tier 4 I think this tank can replace the king tiger p and 10,5cm if those aren't enough put it at the premium one

[_EQUAI_ 356]

Yes Germany could use these.

[Capt_D_K_Marcus 169]

43 minutes ago, SAUBER_KH7 said:

Open for Discussion.

 

However, the Leopard Prototype A Porsche has already been suggested and passed to development.

 

Having said that, this suggestion will be treated as a suggestion for the other Prototypes in the Leopard Family.

 

As a kind reminder, please remember to check of a plane/tank has already been suggested by viewing our suggestions list HERE.

 

I also adjusted poll for better quality and corrected the prefix.

1

 

Thank you.  

 

(And yeah I knew about the suggested Leopard Prototype A in the forms earlier but this suggestion was for the other Prototypes in the Leopard Family as you stated earlier.)

[Capt_D_K_Marcus 169]

52 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

How do the L7 armed ones differ from the Leopard 1?

 

To sum it up, the difference between the prototype Leopards and the Leopard 1 is the turret, hull design and, engine (Horsepower in particular). If you would look at the pictures and compare them to the Leopard 1 you can tell that the turret is slightly different from the Leopard 1 and the Leopard 1A1. As for the main gun the Leopard Prototype I B was armed with a 90m gun while the remaining one was fitted with the L7 105mm gun when they became more available during the later testings of the leopard prototype series.

[WulfPack 1,693]

44 minutes ago, Capt_D_K_Marcus said:

 

To sum it up, the difference between the prototype Leopards and the Leopard 1 is the turret, hull design and, engine (Horsepower in particular). If you would look at the pictures and compare them to the Leopard 1 you can tell that the turret is slightly different from the Leopard 1 and the Leopard 1A1. As for the main gun the Leopard Prototype I B was armed with a 90m gun while the remaining one was fitted with the L7 105mm gun when they became more available during the later testings of the leopard prototype series.

Would they get older 105 ammo?

[Capt_D_K_Marcus 169]

21 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

Would they get older 105 ammo?

they would most likely get only APDS and HESH ammo only since they were the prototype versions of the Leopard tanks.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

how about the borgward prototype?

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

22 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

how about the borgward prototype?

Was that thing actually built?

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

3 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Was that thing actually built?

ok nvm then

no sadly not, it was: ''to advanced for that time''

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

Does anybody have data for the 1 B's 90mm?

[AtomicPope 3,953]

All of them would be needed, but personally I think the 90mm Leopard prototype is the most important one because it would probably sit nicely at 7.3 or so where Germany doesn't have many options.

[_EQUAI_ 356]

Is the 90 mm similar to the M47 90mm or the RU/Kanonenjagdpanzer 90mm?

Edited July 7, 2017 by _EQUAI_

[Capt_D_K_Marcus 169]

8 minutes ago, _EQUAI_ said:

Is the 90 mm similar to the M47 90mm or the RU/Kanonenjagdpanzer 90mm?

It's more closer to the RU/Kanonenjagdpanzer 90mm gun but longer. The  90mm Rheinmetall had only 2 ammo types: APDS with around 280mm pen and an HEAT-FS round with 345mm of pen IIRC.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Capt_D_K_Marcus

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

huh. entwicklung Leos? i'll bite:

 

i'm in favor of the I B (with the 90mm, which i'm guessing is the BK-90) and either one of the II A or II B.

 

germany deserves to have a 90mm proto Leo I as a researchable slower counterpart to the RU 251 at 7.0 BR (every other country has an MBT at at least 7.3).

 

and it needs an L7A3 Leo (lacking HEAT-FS) after that at 7.3 to segue into the Leo 1A0 ala the M46-M60/T-54 Mod. 1947-T-62. 

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

36 minutes ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

huh. entwicklung Leos? i'll bite:

 

i'm in favor of the I B (with the 90mm, which i'm guessing is the BK-90) and either one of the II A or II B.

 

germany deserves to have a 90mm proto Leo I as a researchable slower counterpart to the RU 251 at 7.0 BR (every other country has an MBT at at least 7.3).

 

and it needs an L7A3 Leo (lacking HEAT-FS) after that at 7.3 to segue into the Leo 1A0 ala the M46-M60/T-54 Mod. 1947-T-62. 

 

I'd be all for that idea if it were 7.3 and 7.7. I'm thinking more like M47 and M48 counterparts.

[HerrSektor 3,840]

1 hour ago, muzzleflash98 said:

 

I'd be all for that idea if it were 7.3 and 7.7. I'm thinking more like M47 and M48 counterparts.

or 7.0 and 7.3, more like Cent Mk10/Vickers and T54/T29/IS3 counter parts....

[_EQUAI_ 356]

13 hours ago, Capt_D_K_Marcus said:

It's more closer to the RU/Kanonenjagdpanzer 90mm gun but longer. The  90mm Rheinmetall had only 2 ammo types: APDS with around 280mm pen and an HEAT-FS round with 345mm of pen IIRC.

Then it's perfect for 7.0-7.3 then bring the panther II down to 6.7.

[McPuff 2,212]

I don't see a reason for any of them besides the I B. The others would all most likely be good enough to be at 8.0 anyway so they don't fill any gaps. I wouldn't mind the I B very much though

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

7 hours ago, McPuff said:

I don't see a reason for any of them besides the I B. The others would all most likely be good enough to be at 8.0 anyway so they don't fill any gaps. I wouldn't mind the I B very much though

 

lol only the leo 1A1A1 is at 8.0 (well in AB at least). the protoypes with the L7A3 don't have to have the HEAT-FS.

[The_Strafer 131]

Is this needed? I don't play high tier Germany so I don't know. But it looks cool.

[McPuff 2,212]

12 minutes ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

 

lol only the leo 1A1A1 is at 8.0 (well in AB at least). the protoypes with the L7A3 don't have to have the HEAT-FS.

I doubt that's enough. The Leopard is one of the best MBTs in-game, only being rivalled by the Japanese MBTs. Taking away HEAT-FS wouldn't change that, some people already rely only on APDS anyway

 

Oh, and I'm speaking out og an RB perspective

[__nico__ 73]

Fully support this suggestion, but I think that only the first prototypes are worth. The second prototypes are too similar to the production Leo.

Also the first prototype from group B had a hydropneumatic suspension so it will be a great addition.

I compiled the info from the sources of this post and the other with the Prototype A to make the post more clear.

 

 

If it helps, you can add this to the main post.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by __nico__