The biggest problem

[PARAMI 478]

I'm gonna post this specifically in the AB air subsection of this forum because I am frankly unqualified to represent all other game modes. 

Now, onto the meat of this post.

 

I consider myself a fairly experienced player and a veteran of the community. I have logged in thousands of hours in this game, and from bomber spamming to spawncamping, I've done it all. Consequently, I have also been exposed to a plethora of players and their reactions regarding my actions (they tend to get the most vocal when I camp them so hard they start spawning from the airfield, which is a completely overexaggerated reaction, but I digress).

 

From messages of a game well played (those are fairly few and far between, with most of these messages coming from other experienced players), and accusations of "HAX"/threats of bans and reports (the vast majority of my "mail" falls under this category), I have seen them all. There is something universal in all of these messages, however, no matter if they have a positive or negative connotation: no one ever asks for help or guidance.

 

It's pretty damn obvious that I am a far better pilot than most of the community, which means that I cannot simply comprehend why absolutely NO ONE has the vision and common sense to ask me how I get such good results. It's fine when veterans don't care to share knowledge, as they are already accomplished players, but it annoys me to no end to see random people who can't even manage to figure out that helicoptering up at a spawncamper is the exact opposite thing they should do, and don't understand that the C key (it exists, folks!) is a quick and easy way to spot someone diving on them. It's almost always these players, the (admittedly common) scum at the bottom of the barrel, the cannon fodder of the game, who are quick to insult and blame others. They are full of themselves, and cannot conceive that someone can dominate them with such ease without some kind of hacking. They are unwilling (or intellectually unable, or just too ignorant) to ever ask a better pilot for pointers. Hell, I've tried to teach such people, but they never improve, or take my wisdom into account. 

 

Browsing screenshots of stupid and angry comments on the pro100 discord server is funny, but it's a situation where I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. The sheer amount of ignorance, hate, and general stupidity in this game is shocking and destructive to this game. How are the devs supposed to create a game that is balanced and fun for everyone when the majority of players are too stupid to even form concrete opinions, let alone suggest possible solutions to the game's problems? 

 

I know that the forum is mostly made up of intelligent people who have respectable opinions and the arguments to back them up, but to those who fall under the "beginner/ignorant" category: suck up your pride, and open your eyes, people. You don't need hacks to be good at this game. Furthermore, and this applies to everyone, even myself: do not blame others for playing the way they do before stepping into their shoes and understanding their line of thinking. It's basic common sense, guys. Don't confuse Gaijin by spouting random BS that you have only secondhand knowledge of. If you're going to attack spawncampers, try camping yourself of talk to spawncampers before making an argument. Before dismissing bomber spammers and objective players as the bane of the game, find reason in your opinions by taking out a P-47 and going for the WiN. 

 

Let's make this game a better space for everyone, regardless of playstyle or perspective. To do this, we need to be rid of our ignorance and understand each other. We play the same game, and although we may take what we personally want from our own experiences, it doesn't hurt to understand others' situations before belittling them. Learn, people. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by PennyWort

[Toastfrenzy@psn 371]

But on the flip side is the "game" not telling you that it's time to move on to a more difficult mode now that you've reached such completeness within AB....

 

maybe? 

[シーサー 48]

Only for those that have the time to play RB, SB modes.  A lot want the quick action and not waiting around.  I mean, many have real life things to do too.  At least the older players.

[Hohum33 680]

If people wanted to learn about air combat, there is a decent choice of sources available to learn from. (youtube, books, other players).

My assumption is, a lot of people don't want to learn, they want to mash their fire button and thrash the controls around until they die, and then do it again.

[GregKjr 520]

On 8/10/2017 at 12:38 PM, PennyWort said:

From messages of a game well played (those are fairly few and far between, with most of these messages coming from other experienced players), and accusations of "HAX"/threats of bans and reports (the vast majority of my "mail" falls under this category), I have seen them all. There is something universal in all of these messages, however, no matter if they have a positive or negative connotation: no one ever asks for help or guidance.

 

It's pretty damn obvious that I am a far better pilot than most of the community, which means that I cannot simply comprehend why absolutely NO ONE has the vision and common sense to ask me how I get such good results. It's fine when veterans don't care to share knowledge, as they are already accomplished players, but it annoys me to no end to see random people who can't even manage to figure out that helicoptering up at a spawncamper is the exact opposite thing they should do, and don't understand that the C key (it exists, folks!) is a quick and easy way to spot someone diving on them. It's almost always these players, the (admittedly common) scum at the bottom of the barrel, the cannon fodder of the game, who are quick to insult and blame others. They are full of themselves, and cannot conceive that someone can dominate them with such ease without some kind of hacking. They are unwilling (or intellectually unable, or just too ignorant) to ever ask a better pilot for pointers. Hell, I've tried to teach such people, but they never improve, or take my wisdom into account. 

 

Browsing screenshots of stupid and angry comments on the pro100 discord server is funny, but it's a situation where I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. The sheer amount of ignorance, hate, and general stupidity in this game is shocking and destructive to this game. How are the devs supposed to create a game that is balanced and fun for everyone when the majority of players are too stupid to even form concrete opinions, let alone suggest possible solutions to the game's problems? 

 

*(snip for context)

 

sum guys like my self play with privacy settings turned on and name tags/chat turned off... so we don't get "mail" and don't know who we are playing with if we don't even bother to check the score board until the mach is over.  <- mostly because we don't want to deal with the rage our selves.  But from my experience playing Vs. the PRO100 guys is thy are good at the game but not unbeatable... so it's always a good game Vs. PRO100 so plox don't quit over sum crying children

Just remember how IQ works .... so about 1/2 of the people on the earth are running at max cognitive capacity just using their computer ... forget them trying to be skilled at it let alone competitive.

It is genuinely a wonder we as a species have even made it this far.

 

 

If the guys you are fighting have the wherewithal of a ear of corn.  what can you do but farm them like the corn thy are.  I mean if thy want help that's one thing but if thy just want to cry ... 

 

 

The best we can hope for is the dev team understands. that even tho we might have a lot of players that are bad at the game and even tho thy might be the most vocal players ..... sum times you need to  let bad players lose.  Even if thy cry about it later it still don't change the fact if we are all winners winning becomes meaningless.......

and you can't balance stupid

 

 

 

 

On 8/10/2017 at 1:11 PM, *Toastfrenzy said:

But on the flip side is the "game" not telling you that it's time to move on to a more difficult mode now that you've reached such completeness within AB....

 

maybe? 

 

calling RB/SIM more difficult is sum what subjective. different yes but to say more difficult I'm not totally sold on that. I think a case can be made that SIM is even less difficult than AB but that's not what the thread is about.

Edited September 28, 2017 by GregKjr

[schtreusel 155]

19 hours ago, Hohum33 said:

If people wanted to learn about air combat, there is a decent choice of sources available to learn from. (youtube, books, other players).

My assumption is, a lot of people don't want to learn, they want to mash their fire button and thrash the controls around until they die, and then do it again.

couldnt agree more.

Motivation is essential, if people dont want to get better than they wont.

Edited August 11, 2017 by schtreusel

[io_i_oi 1,016]

Can someone tell me if a player with 100+ level is actually complaining about the game or the payers??

[Virieu 116]

I went out of Jet games real fast some years ago because of the constant Pro100 Spawn ****, and now you come crying here that you get flamed too much because of your playstyle. Nah, I just can not get any empathy towards you mate.

 

[l_AM_GOD 1,959]

Not really sure why Penny made this thread.  Is it a cry for help or a "Look how good I am"?  

 

I get called a hacker all the time and I really enjoy my hate mail.  I am called a hacker no matter if I bomb ground targets really fast to win a game or if I stay high and spawn camp racking up a ton of easy kills.  

 

Every time I see a PM pop up for me calling me hacker, A hole, cheater, etc etc etc then it truly brings me joy.  I would rather get hate mail than a battle trophy.  I know I'm doing something right if I can own people so bad that it pisses them off in RL yet there is nothing they can do to counter me because they lack the skill.

 

100 is a solid group of players all around.  From what I understand it is formed mainly of teenagers that talk trash but they ARE very skilled pilots so they can talk trash and back it up.  However, being a part of a skilled group that talks trash, and spawn camps you should really expect all this negativity coming your way Penny.

Edited August 10, 2017 by l_AM_GOD

[SneakySausage 786]

I find it hard to manage a suitable reaction to this post. Yes many are like that but many 100 players do ask for this in ways.

I have seen over the last 6 months consistent 'unsportsman ' like behaviour from many members. Including Team killing, foul language ,abuse of glitches, abuse in general,  spawn camping, targeting individuals, encouraging frivolous reports as well as just obnoxious attitudes/behaviour. A lot of this is reportable but often I could care less, but when clans openly mock newer players I kinda frown on it a bit.i have seen 100 spawn camp my 60 year old farther who has dementia killing him around 6 times and then message in game to only insult and mock him when he had said nothing in chat. This leads to many bad impressions about the 100 player Base, and well can you blame them?  

 

To be fair this isent just pro100. There are many many names that come to mind that have this or similar  attitude. But you must understand why this would happen to a squad like 100 frequently.i myself have been looking to fly with more air killers recently and had been in 100 ts to try and get some keyboard layouts and stuff corrected a few months back but with some of the behaviour I have seen as of late I am hesitant to continue that type of endeavour . I have been playing for a long time now, and get called hacker often I have mixed reactions it happens in every game, learning curve is bigger here I suppose so Aces are noobier and the elite are more elite. 

 

I'm somewhat acquainted with a few 100 players have squaded with a few. Iv squadded with a few 100 here and there not often anymore, I can say they are good pilots and I could confidently say several are better fighters than me although I'm sure I can take on the lower echelon easily

 

Penny I don't understand why you have made this thread either, with the types of tactics used (spawn camping namly) it's completely expected. I would expect squadrons who are trying to win to also receive Flak, and they do. If you want this to stop, I suggest that many top squads will need to be friendlier to the blue berries and each other. But with community divides bombers v fighters, kdr v win rate and what else this will not happen any time soon

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by SneakySausage

[Hohum33 680]

2 hours ago, schtreusel said:

couldnt agree less.

Motivation is essential, if people dont want to get better than they wont.

 

"My assumption is, a lot of people don't want to learn,"

 

How are you not agreeing with me?

30 minutes ago, l_AM_GOD said:

Not really sure why Penny made this thread.  Is it a cry for help or a "Look how good I am"?  

 

It's a cry for other people to ask for help.

[VaperTrail 343]

I think Spawn campers take advantage of newbies and that's why those players get so upset, Ive been spawn camped once and that was 3 against one but I see newbies get slaughtered at spawn like spearing goldfish in a small tank, I don't blame them for getting frustrated you got a very experienced player or team of players working together that has every advantage ( plane speed experience altitude ) over a guy just starting out, that kinda play doesn't interest me its like dirty pool, its like Usain Bolt given 20 yrds head start on the field and then gloating on how easy he beats them.

 

The reality for the most part is that spawn camping gives easy kills with little resistance that's why they do it.

 

[Touched_Grass 758]

.

Edited November 25, 2020 by ____B00K3NDS____

[Tigerspook 315]

I wouldn't ask [100] players for help because I don't want to be like them. Seriously. If I had to spawn camp to win I'd quit. Seriously.

 

But I have asked players for help before. In every single case, the person was helpful, if they responded. Most of my WT friends are such people and we squad regularly.

 

-----

I will defend the pilots who don't ask for help:

1. Most d00ds who would spawn camp or otherwise abuse players are unpleasant in general. It is no wonder people don't seek them out.

2. Beginners may not understand that there is more to the game than what they are doing. When I started, I didn't know about BNZ, for example. I would turn-fight in my P-38 or P-47 ("these planes are supposed to be GOOD! I'm gonna own now!")  and not understand why I always got shot down. I thought, if I only try harder, I'll do better. It never helped, because a lack of trying wasn't my problem.  I never knew dudes were stall trapping me, that I was turning until I was in a low-energy state, I was prop-hanging, and that when a dude was floating 1.2km above me, I was already under attack; he just hadn't sealed the deal yet.  If one does not understand the possibilities, then it is easy to think people are cheating.  Thank goodness for Long5hot and TX141.

 

* disclaimer - I like watching Flip's videos, esp how easy he makes head-on kills look. And his music selection is great, lol.

[blastedryan 967]

While I agree this game needs a better tutorial to teach players to be better pilots/tankers, the game does not really have any mechanic that encourages people to become good pilots.

 

Also it can be hard to tell if you're straight up outplayed. People just blame RNG or bias.

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

so what you are saying is that a smart person would be willing to enter not only a gun "draw" against a much more accomplished gun slinger but let him pull a gun to the back of his head to start the "draw"? Is that what smart people like you do? Because I don't. I must be really stupid. I've had missions against some pretty good squads that didn't spawn, but managed to shoot just about everyone on the blue team down at least 3 times, myself 4. Did I get mad? Yup. Did i whine about it? Nope. Because they gave each of us half a chance to fight them, and they defeated us with pure skill. Putting a gun to someones head right as they spawn and expect to be considered a fair and skilled player? Don't think so. It's the difference between a fair gunfight and having someone sneak up behind you while you are blindfolded in the dark, putting a gun to your head, and shouting "draw" like it's the manly thing to do.

[Ston3dAF 1]

Hello Pennywort! I am a huge fan of you 100 guys, do you guys offer training's or anything like that to help out the unworthy ones like myself ? I for one would certainly like to learn from you. So there, i am asking for help.

Edited August 11, 2017 by King_Samo

[esapekkis 2,659]

15 hours ago, PennyWort said:

Spoiler

 

I'm gonna post this specifically in the AB air subsection of this forum because I am frankly unqualified to represent all other game modes. 

Now, onto the meat of this post.

 

I consider myself a fairly experienced player and a veteran of the community. I have logged in thousands of hours in this game, and from bomber spamming to spawncamping, I've done it all. Consequently, I have also been exposed to a plethora of players and their reactions regarding my actions (they tend to get the most vocal when I camp them so hard they start spawning from the airfield, which is a completely overexaggerated reaction, but I digress).

 

From messages of a game well played (those are fairly few and far between, with most of these messages coming from other experienced players), and accusations of "HAX"/threats of bans and reports (the vast majority of my "mail" falls under this category), I have seen them all. There is something universal in all of these messages, however, no matter if they have a positive or negative connotation: no one ever asks for help or guidance.

 

It's pretty damn obvious that I am a far better pilot than most of the community, which means that I cannot simply comprehend why absolutely NO ONE has the vision and common sense to ask me how I get such good results. It's fine when veterans don't care to share knowledge, as they are already accomplished players, but it annoys me to no end to see random people who can't even manage to figure out that helicoptering up at a spawncamper is the exact opposite thing they should do, and don't understand that the C key (it exists, folks!) is a quick and easy way to spot someone diving on them. It's almost always these players, the (admittedly common) scum at the bottom of the barrel, the cannon fodder of the game, who are quick to insult and blame others. They are full of themselves, and cannot conceive that someone can dominate them with such ease without some kind of hacking. They are unwilling (or intellectually unable, or just too ignorant) to ever ask a better pilot for pointers. Hell, I've tried to teach such people, but they never improve, or take my wisdom into account. 

 

Browsing screenshots of stupid and angry comments on the pro100 discord server is funny, but it's a situation where I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. The sheer amount of ignorance, hate, and general stupidity in this game is shocking and destructive to this game. How are the devs supposed to create a game that is balanced and fun for everyone when the majority of players are too stupid to even form concrete opinions, let alone suggest possible solutions to the game's problems? 

 

I know that the forum is mostly made up of intelligent people who have respectable opinions and the arguments to back them up, but to those who fall under the "beginner/ignorant" category: suck up your pride, and open your eyes, people. You don't need hacks to be good at this game. Furthermore, and this applies to everyone, even myself: do not blame others for playing the way they do before stepping into their shoes and understanding their line of thinking. It's basic common sense, guys. Don't confuse Gaijin by spouting random BS that you have only secondhand knowledge of. If you're going to attack spawncampers, try camping yourself of talk to spawncampers before making an argument. Before dismissing bomber spammers and objective players as the bane of the game, find reason in your opinions by taking out a P-47 and going for the WiN. 

 

Let's make this game a better space for everyone, regardless of playstyle or perspective. To do this, we need to be rid of our ignorance and understand each other. We play the same game, and although we may take what we personally want from our own experiences, it doesn't hurt to understand others' situations before belittling them. Learn, people. 

 

 

 

I am someone who thinks that he is slightly better than the average joe in all Air modes. In my experience it is very rare to see anyone asking anykind of help (other than using the "cover me" radio call) in air AB. Nor I have ever been contacted in via private chat by someone asking anything related to getting better in the mode. In RB games you can see some general questions asked like "I just got the P-51, how I fly it against the enemy planes". The anwers (from both veterans and newer guys) range from "J out and quit" to "stay fast + boomAndzoom". Private mail is not 100% hate mail anymore, but anyone asking for help there is an extremely rare case. On rare occasion you might also see someone congratulating you for nice move that took him down. In SB along with the general questions how to fly a certain plane, people also ask about controll schemes. I feel that ingame the learning is mostly "monkey sees, monkey does". Well In SB seeing part might a problem but you get the point. The place people seem to ask more spesific questions how to get better (or give answers/write quides) are usually forums or friends (=read squadron). And as far as I understand your squadron is recruiting only people who already know their businees and not those who need practice. So I'm guessing there isn't much teahing done in your squadron either. But I'm really interested, what would you say to a lower skilled newcomer (and veteran) if they asked for help from you?

 

Fun fact when I got helped ingame by random person (sadly not in AB so spoilered):

Spoiler

I used some random controlls I found in the internets for my cheap joystic when I started SB and after some months went back to RB since I felt the learning curve was too high. I still stayed on a ingame chat channel called "FRB" because it autoconnects you there everytime you open the game unless you manually leave those private chat rooms. 6 months after I had left SB someone send me a private message saying "hey, you look liek a new guy and I want to help you getting started." He had found me from the chat and wanted to help (and apparently he had helped numerous people before me). I tried to say that "thank you but I'm a lost call", but he continued to insist that he wants to help me with my controlls. I downloaded TS so he could advice better and after some hours I had controlls I felt I could learn to use one day. And here I am, still using pretty much the same controlls years later. This isn't the only incident where I have seen people offering their help to random people who have not asked it themselves in SB. Sure it's pretty rare there, but in my experience it happens more often than in other modes

 

15 hours ago, _Shisa said:

Only for those that have the time to play RB, SB modes.  A lot want the quick action and not waiting around.  I mean, many have real life things to do too.  At least the older players.

 

I agree that the game phase is so different between the modes that people who prefer arcade due the fast action might not like RB/SB. But I have hard time agreeing the "lack of time" reason I hear every now and then. I know players who play only 1 game of RB or fly a single short sortie in SB EC since they don't have time to play more than 20-30min in one session.

 

15 hours ago, GregKjr said:

I think a case can be made that SIM is even less difficult than AB but that's not what the thread is about.

 

The thing I can come up with is getting to target alive with bombers. Since being detected is harder and shooting down aggressors is easier with mouse aim you still use when manning the turrets. If you had something other in your mind I'm really eager to hear it.

[SneakySausage 786]

in sb help seems far more common i find

[schtreusel 155]

15 hours ago, Hohum33 said:

How are you not agreeing with me?

My english skils....

I wanted to write: coulndnt agree more

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

17 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

I wouldn't ask [100] players for help because I don't want to be like them. Seriously. If I had to spawn camp to win I'd quit. Seriously.

 

But I have asked players for help before. In every single case, the person was helpful, if they responded. Most of my WT friends are such people and we squad regularly.

 

-----

I will defend the pilots who don't ask for help:

1. Most d00ds who would spawn camp or otherwise abuse players are unpleasant in general. It is no wonder people don't seek them out.

2. Beginners may not understand that there is more to the game than what they are doing. When I started, I didn't know about BNZ, for example. I would turn-fight in my P-38 or P-47 ("these planes are supposed to be GOOD! I'm gonna own now!")  and not understand why I always got shot down. I thought, if I only try harder, I'll do better. It never helped, because a lack of trying wasn't my problem.  I never knew dudes were stall trapping me, that I was turning until I was in a low-energy state, I was prop-hanging, and that when a dude was floating 1.2km above me, I was already under attack; he just hadn't sealed the deal yet.  If one does not understand the possibilities, then it is easy to think people are cheating.  Thank goodness for Long5hot and TX141.

 

* disclaimer - I like watching Flip's videos, esp how easy he makes head-on kills look. And his music selection is great, lol.

It would be like asking a master hunter to teach you how to club a baby seal. Not for me.

[Swearengen 653]

So basically the "Biggest problem" of this game is that players do not acknowledge that your a great player and don't ask for you to share your knowledge? 

 

Get over yourself, it's a game...

 

 

 

Lol

Edited August 11, 2017 by Swearengen

[GregKjr 520]

@esapekkis

I was thinking along the same kind of lines as you about the difficulty thing ......  but with the slight twist that the spotting mechanic as a whole in SIM leads to a less chaotic environment and thus the *situational awareness (SA) requirement is less task loading on the player.

 

If I had to guess (and yes it is a wiled speculation) RB air would be the most difficult environment for a sim player as you have most of the task of flying the aircraft and most of the task of managing your SA.

ware as in AB air your flight skills are not as important as in RB/SIM (even with joystick) but the AB SA task loading is far grater than any other game mode at the T3 to T4 range as most of the player base plays in that range <--- but that's not what the thread is about so......

 

 

12 hours ago, King_Samo said:

Hello Pennywort! I am a huge fan of you 100 guys, do you guys offer training's or anything like that to help out the unworthy ones like myself ? I for one would certainly like to learn from you. So there, i am asking for help.

you might have more luck getting help by posting your request in the academy part of the forum

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/161-the-academy/

 

If you want a more 1 on 1 type of instruction asking for it there is your best chance to get it.

I'm not saying Pennywort and other PRO100 will not respond in this thread...  just most guys looking to help others will be looking in the academy for your request.

 

 

 

 

As a side note I just love all the crying about spawn camping....

As tho climbing to protect your spawn is someone else's job and you have no responsibility to even try to do it your self.

 

Or better yet that it is a failure of the opposing team if the friendly team/your selves don't do the job ...

Seriously how entitled do you have to be for that belief structure to seam valid to you????

[Hohum33 680]

6 hours ago, schtreusel said:

My english skils....

I wanted to write: coulndnt agree more

 

Ahhhhh. 

[VaperTrail 343]

1 hour ago, GregKjr said:

@esapekkis

I was thinking along the same kind of lines as you about the difficulty thing ......  but with the slight twist that the spotting mechanic as a whole in SIM leads to a less chaotic environment and thus the *situational awareness (SA) requirement is less task loading on the player.

 

If I had to guess (and yes it is a wiled speculation) RB air would be the most difficult environment for a sim player as you have most of the task of flying the aircraft and most of the task of managing your SA.

ware as in AB air your flight skills are not as important as in RB/SIM (even with joystick) but the AB SA task loading is far grater than any other game mode at the T3 to T4 range as most of the player base plays in that range <--- but that's not what the thread is about so......

 

 

you might have more luck getting help by posting your request in the academy part of the forum

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/161-the-academy/

 

If you want a more 1 on 1 type of instruction asking for it there is your best chance to get it.

I'm not saying Pennywort and other PRO100 will not respond in this thread...  just most guys looking to help others will be looking in the academy for your request.

 

 

 

 

As a side note I just love all the crying about spawn camping....

As tho climbing to protect your spawn is someone else's job and you have no responsibility to even try to do it your self.

 

Or better yet that it is a failure of the opposing team if the friendly team/your selves don't do the job ...

Seriously how entitled do you have to be for that belief structure to seam valid to you????

 

The last time I climbed and hung back to protect our spawn no spawn campers turned up lol  so I wasted much time in a short game for nothing. I played a game last night and my team never got any kills at all as there were like 5-6 Spawn campers wiping them out, I was on the other side of the map and had 12 kills and never lost a plane  so didn't have to deal with them all, I felt like side climbing up to them but the games being so short Im not wasting that amount of time, my team was going mental in the chat complaining about them and most of my team was around 10 level and just couldn't do anything at the spawn except die.

 

The real victims of spawn campers are new players that don't know what to do but get killed, any 100 level player that thinks spawn camping newbies is fair game is a spawn camper trying to justify doing it,  if they want to show us how good their skills are why don't they sit below the spawn and give the newbies an advantage on them at least it would be sporting, oh no cant do that its more fun shooting blind guppies in a barrel.

 

Ive never liked spawn camping in any online shooter its always the same deal its purely an advantage for clubbing newbies, be like boxing and the bell rings and your opponent is standing over you throwing punches before you can get off the stool, its not sporting at all and Gaijin should implement a no go zone to stop it.