ground vehicles BTR-ZD Skrezhet

[Alphanoodle 526]

How i came to this idea: Yesterday i posted my suggestion for the lebanese BTR-152B and @Retry gave me the idea to make this suggestion too. Here's a link to my suggestion: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/377492-lebanese-btr-152b-with-23mm-cannons/

 

Why? The russians simply dont have a SPAAG around the 4.0-7.0 range that can effectively shoot down enemy fighters and attackers. Thus, are extremely vulnerable to CAS.

 

History: The BTR-D is a Soviet airborne multi-purpose tracked armoured personnel carrier which was introduced in 1974 and first seen by the West in 1979 during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. (in the game it would basically work like the tracked version of the BTR-152) It is still in use today and saw many modifications. But today i want to talk about the ZD "Skrezhet " (ZD stands for zenitnaya ustanovka). [to keep it short i'll just call it ZD from now on]

 

Specifications: The ZD is BTR-D converted into an airborne air defense vehicle for carrying two MANPAD teams. (a MANPAD team is a Man-portable air-defense system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-portable_air-defense_system) This conversion carried a pair of 23mm cannons on top of it (same as on the Shilka).  

Crew: 12men (its an APC and i couldnt find out how many men it would need to only drive around and use the cannons. If you have any information about that, please post them)

Weight: ~8 tons

Length: 5.88 m

Width: 2.63 m

Height (hull roof): 2 m

Main gun: 2 x 23-mm

Machine guns: 2 x 7.62-mm

Projectile weight: 0.18 kg

Maximum slant range: 2 km

Maximum firing range: 2.5 km

Rate of fire: 2 000 rpm

Elevation range: + 90 degrees

Traverse range: 360 degrees

Engine: 5D20 diesel

Engine power: 240 hp

Maximum road speed: 62 km/h

Amphibious speed on water: 10 km/h

There are also racks for shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles. Usually three missiles are carried. This is the reason why it has a crew of 12 and "needs" 2 MANPAD teams. Of course (in the current stand of the game) those missiles should NOT be carried. And as you very carful readers might have noticed in the specifications, this thing is amphibious too. I'd suggest a BR something around 6.3-6.7. edit: since this thing has a weight of 8 tons it of course only has enough armour to stop low caliber MG rounds, (most) HE aircraft weaponary and shrapnell. The crew operating the guns are completely exposed making this vehicle easy prey for everything. And also: i looked at a few pictures of it and it seems like 3 men are needed to operate the vehicle (without the missiles of course). A driver, a gunner and a loader. Also when you take a look at the pictures, the guns can only carry what appears to be 100 round magazine boxes. I did some research and the wikipedia page of the ZU-23 states this: The ammo is fed by a conveyor belt from two ammunition boxes. Each of the ammunition boxes is located on the side of the twin autocannon and each carries 50 rounds. Considering its RPM this thing is gonna have some serious problems with its reload speed

 

Sources: http://www.military-today.com/artillery/btr_zd.htm

                http://www.military-today.com/artillery/btr_zd_l1.jpg

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-D

please also check out these suggestions as they promote very similar and important vehicles: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/377492-lebanese-btr-152b-with-23mm-cannons/

                                                                                                                                                      https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/337628-zu-23-gaz-66-lack-of-mid-high-tier-russian-spaa/

Thank you very much for reading all of this and of course thank you @Retry for giving me this idea. Now go up again and vote on the poll! Also sorry if there are minor grammar mistakes because my first language is german :3 And as always: PLEASE post your thoughts.

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Alphanoodle

[blakeob 8,086]

Open for discussion. 

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

this would be the last needed russian SPAAG to fill the gap

[Jan_Gustl_WT 1,746]

+1 russian need more useful AAs

[CaID 8,988]

the BTR-ZD wasn't the tracked version of the BTR-152. but a converted BMD-1 into SPAA. the BMD-1 was a airborne amphibious AFV. Originally the BMD-1 was designed to be a armored personal carrier/AFV but the Soviet government choose the object 765 to be put into production as personal carrier/AFV under the designation of BMP-1, the object 915 (the prototype of BMD-1) design was review after the OBject 765 was selected, the new design was smaller and lighter while not giving anything of his armor or firepower. the reason of the improvement on the size and the weight was the troop compartment in the rear was removed to put place to external bench exposed to carry a fewer number of infantry. the BTR-ZD was a direct variation of the BMD-1 and not related to the BTR-152 or any BTR.

 

you should do a bit more research before speculating on the design of a tank you want to post.

 

But even with the mistake of the history of this suggestion, the BTR-ZD is non-less a good vehicles for warthunder. you go my support.

 

for the BR. Gaijin is the only one who is to determine to BR. it is tested according to the overall performance and suitability of the vehicles. the BR may change for a better balance at any time. speculating on the BR is a bit pretentious to me. this is why on the BR question i said No but i said yes to any other.

Edited August 31, 2017 by CaID

[Alphanoodle 526]

27 minutes ago, CaID said:

the BTR-ZD wasn't the tracked version of the BTR-152

Yeah i know that but in the game (if it were added) it would be basically a BTR-152 with tracks since it shares a lot of its characteristics like: amount of armour and about the same speed but with better cross country mobility. They are of course completely different vehicles and i knew that but i was referring to its role in game (i know it was unclear so sorry for that) edit: edited the original post. Now it reads: (in the game it would basically work like the tracked version of the BTR-152) to avoid any further misconceptions

 

27 minutes ago, CaID said:

for the BR. Gaijin is the only one who is to determine to BR. it is tested according to the overall performance and suitability of the vehicles. the BR may change for a better balance at any time. speculating on the BR is a bit pretentious to me. this is why on the BR question i said No but i said yes to any other.

In the guidelines they say that when making a suggestion, the community should give the devs a rough estimation on where to put the vehicles in terms of BR. Polls of course, help with this. (not sure if it was the guidelines but they did post it somewhere because i can remember reading it a few days ago)

Edited August 31, 2017 by Alphanoodle

[WulfPack 1,693]

The traverse rates for the ZU-23.

[Alphanoodle 526]

So after a really painful try to translate it with google image translate i got this:

 

The speed of the flywheel per second:

horizontally at the first speed 30° per second

horizontally second speed 60° per second

in vertical 40° per second

 

my interpretation of this: it is either 30-60° per second horizontally (maybe depends on the vehicle)

and 40° per second vertically

ty @WulfPack for this. Maybe you could translate it properly if you happen to speak russian

[CaID 8,988]

1 hour ago, Alphanoodle said:

In the guidelines they say that when making a suggestion, the community should give the devs a rough estimation on where to put the vehicles in terms of BR. Polls of course, help with this. (not sure if it was the guidelines but they did post it somewhere because i can remember reading it a few days ago)

fair enough. personally i think it should be tier 4-5, BR 5.3 realistic/simulator, BR.6.3 arcade (in arcade there is a lot of plane and in realistic, the Zsu-23-2 will have to face more often tanks against who they have little effect).

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

Question: which version of the BTR-ZD do you want modeled, as your first picture shows the ZU-23 mounted towards the back of the vehicle while the second and third photos show the gun mounted towards the front. 

[Alphanoodle 526]

2 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

Question: which version of the BTR-ZD do you want modeled, as your first picture shows the ZU-23 mounted towards the back of the vehicle while the second and third photos show the gun mounted towards the front.

good question

From my sources i couldnt find any kind of information about different versions of it. Keep in mind that you could "detach" the ZU-23 mount and therefore maybe you could place it on different positions on the AFV. This would have been conveniet for the MANPAD teams, as the vehicle also carried shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles.

[CaID 8,988]

10 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

Question: which version of the BTR-ZD do you want modeled, as your first picture shows the ZU-23 mounted towards the back of the vehicle while the second and third photos show the gun mounted towards the front. 

to be fair. the BTR-ZD was based on the BTR-D who was Based on  the BMD-1, the BMD-1 was having a step in the middle of the back hull to carry troop, the step was to allow the feet and equipment of the soldier to have some space to be safely carried. this step was still present on the BTR-ZD
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/btr_zd_images.htm

as seem in the picture 3 of this link, the step was well there were the solding is standing. on the picture 4, the step is fill with box who seem to be ammunition for the Zu-23-2. if the gun is backward, the space left by the step will be inaccessible, i think the forward gun is better.

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by CaID

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

26 minutes ago, CaID said:

i think the forward gun is better.

I agree. 

[WulfPack 1,693]

2 hours ago, Alphanoodle said:

my interpretation of this: it is either 30-60° per second horizontally (maybe depends on the vehicle)

and 40° per second vertically

Since it doesn't mention multiple variants, I doubt it is that. 

[CaID 8,988]

4 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

Since it doesn't mention multiple variants, I doubt it is that. 

the ZU-23-2 is a towed static AA gun, in this case, the Static AA gun was mounted on the BTR-ZD to be carried and offer a defense against helicopter. the ZU-23-2 did have a lot of variant and upgrade according to the year, the model and the country. the various variant may have different rotation speed. since the ZU-23-2 was simply mounted on the BTR-ZD and could be removed any time and do not have modification of any kind (even the wheel was seldom removed) the ZU-23-2 on the BTR-ZD may be from any variant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2

[WulfPack 1,693]

3 minutes ago, CaID said:

the ZU-23-2 is a towed static AA gun, in this case, the Static AA gun was mounted on the BTR-ZD to be carried and offer a defense against helicopter. the ZU-23-2 did have a lot of variant and upgrade according to the year, the model and the country. the various variant may have different rotation speed. since the ZU-23-2 was simply mounted on the BTR-ZD and could be removed any time and do not have modification of any kind (even the wheel was seldom removed) the ZU-23-2 on the BTR-ZD may be from any variant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2

I meant the operating manual not mentioning multiple variants for the traverse.

[Sky_warrior1937 3]

i will just put this here

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/275230-spaags-btr-zd-zsu-23-3/

sorry guy

[CaID 8,988]

5 minutes ago, Sky_warrior1937 said:

i will just put this here

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/275230-spaags-btr-zd-zsu-23-3/

sorry guy

well, both wasn't properly name and Archived. soundlike we are good for a merge.

[Alphanoodle 526]

10 minutes ago, Sky_warrior1937 said:

i will just put this here

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/275230-spaags-btr-zd-zsu-23-3/

sorry guy

Yeah i noticed this this morning too. But those were the times when we didnt have such advanced stuff like shilka, gepard and so forth in the game so the poll there is kinda useless.

[myGFis14yoJPgirl 100]

i think this is better option .

[Alphanoodle 526]

It's a chinese vehicle the type 63 ZU-23. (I think)

Looks nice too but the Skrezhet is Russian and therefore far more likely to be implemented.

Also this thing has turret armour so it would probably get a BR much closer to the shilka rendering it pointless.

[CaID 8,988]

8 hours ago, VNSeptemberSnow said:

i think this is better option .

if you want the chinese vehicles, they start to have enough to make a whole tree on their own. i made a suggestion a while ago. the Type 63 is to be added. i am waiting for the 1.71 update to add the tier 6 and vehicles from later time. but there is already about 20 tier 6 possible to add. i may choice about 12 of the trying to balance it and make it various.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/375102-independent-chinese-ground-forces/

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by CaID

[Daddo2 328]

I fully support addition of this vehicle.

 

Here, have a video posted just today

 

[Thug Shaker Actual 225]

This is super cool, I would love to see it in the game. It would like someone mentioned earlier, complete the Russian SPAAG Tree

[Alphanoodle 526]

i did some research on the reload speed of the ZU-23/2 and found this:

 

On the towed system (and also on the BTR-ZD), ammunition feeds from box magazines mounted on the outside of each trunion. Reloading is fast and uncomplicated. The magazines are easily accessible. The beginning link of the new belt attaches to the link of the last old cartridge. This last cartridge automatically interrupts the firing cycle when it reaches the feedway and signals the bolt to remain open. 

 

i guess the reload with 3 crew members should be something around 12sec which, if you consider the fact that the crew operating the turret is unprotected, should make it easy for planes to destroy the vehicle between the reloads. 

Also i found that the magazine could be fitted with up to 56 rounds but most of the time 50 are used.

 

Sources: 

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/irfna/irfna_refs/n28en030/airdef.html#zu23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woDauXxr2Ws at 3:58 you can see them reloading

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Alphanoodle