win How to maximize your impact in tank battles and improve your win rate?

[No_Camping 1,804]

On 22/03/2018 at 11:39 AM, H4rdcor3 said:

Should be stickied. 

Thanks man

[plmnb 282]

Rule number 1.

 

Use OP biased tanks.  Much impact less brain work.

 

 

Doing an Impact with Vickers MBT and it's APDS is ridiculous. Few matches ago I had a battle where i have spent 34 shells and just destroy 5 tanks.

In my case 34 shells meant 

180 secs on constant plowing potatoes into enemy vehicles. So what are we talking  about?

[No_Camping 1,804]

Vickers MBT and its companion Tier 4-5 British tanks are quite good. But their APDS impose that you precisely shoot in critical spots of enemy tanks (that you should hence learn to identify; see the tutorial post above). You would be surprised by the many people on this forum (mostly Wehraboos) who complain about the supposed OPness of these "pen-all" tanks (of course, they are not OP, which these players would learn if they had ever played them, but they remain very competitive)...
Well, you say you killed 5 tanks in the battle with it (albeit using 34 shells), but did you had a strong impact on the battle? Did you win?

Here are a few stats (players @Hunterm16a2, @aabz, and me) with these tanks, and you can see that you can have a well above 50% win rate with them... even playing alone (I grinded/spaded them mostly playing alone, and aabz and Hunterm16a2 play them often alone too).

 

You seem to be a decent player in terms of kills, but your overall (with all tanks) win rates in AB/RB/SB are all below 50%, showing that you are not exploiting all your talent (and the guidelines of the tutorial/main post here) to have a decisive impact on the outcome of the battle...
Would you give the present tutorial a good read?

PS: my biggest grief with British tanks at Tier 4-6 (explaining why I do not play them much) is not that they are bad but that I find them a bit boring to play, as they are more or less all bigger and bigger versions of the Centurion Mk 1, but still with a similar gameplay, armor structure, and ammunition. I hence find Russian, German, US, Japanese, French tanks (5 nations for which I have - and play - all tanks) much more interesting to play, with very diverse and fun gameplay.

Edited December 17, 2018 by No_Camping

[*Lyrch75 494]

How about? 

Don't ram your wedding tackle into the nearest urban peekaboo combat zone. 

 

I will have matches with 5-9 kills and 1-3 cap and recaps (AB) but yet we get steam rolled because everyone decided to play a CQB FPS instead of an armoured fighting vehicle game, and the other team rallies back faster after the inevitable mutual annihilation of the first spawned tanks. 

[No_Camping 1,804]

23 hours ago, *Lyrch75 said:

How about? 

Don't ram your wedding tackle into the nearest urban peekaboo combat zone. 

 

I will have matches with 5-9 kills and 1-3 cap and recaps (AB) but yet we get steam rolled because everyone decided to play a CQB FPS instead of an armoured fighting vehicle game, and the other team rallies back faster after the inevitable mutual annihilation of the first spawned tanks. 

Yeah!
About that, read the "do not be suicidal" section of this post!

[KriptoSeriak 8]

I like finding the best spot on each map. In my 4.7 German and 6.7 USA line-ups i know which vehicle can use a certain spot or strategy. For example, in the old version of Mozdok there was a spot where, if i spawned from the left side, my Jagdpanzer IV was protected from the sides, had it's lower plate hidden and i was able to freely shoot at tanks in B. Now that spot is gone, but in 6.7 USA i have similar spots to cover B when spawning from either side. It's curious how most other players don't understand what my tank is doing there... and the enemy doesn't expect to be shot from there.

Also, with the same tank, I am able to tackle a lonely IS 1 or 2 very close, because it doesn't have the depression to shoot me.

It's all about finding the little kinks that help.

[the_dr_slump@psn 227]

On 1.4.2018 at 8:20 AM, No_Camping said:

Vickers MBT and its companion Tier 4-5 British tanks are quite good. But their APDS impose that you precisely shoot in critical spots of enemy tanks (that you should hence learn to identify; see the tutorial post above)

 

He's complaining about having a hard time killing tanks with the Vickers. Taking more than 2 games in average for a single kill doesn't seem to be a thrilling experience.

Edited April 4, 2018 by *the_dr_slump

[No_Camping 1,804]

Oh nice! This post was pinned by the moderators! Thanks!

[P8triot 3,894]

2 hours ago, *the_dr_slump said:

He's complaining about having a hard time killing tanks with the Vickers. Taking more than 2 games in average for a single kill doesn't seem to be a thrilling experience.

Personal Observation:

As No_Camping pointed out though...knowing the capabilities of not just your tank but also your opponents' and adding proper tactics can bring a great deal of success in all tanks.  2 of his screenshot friends had 72% in win rates with the Vickers MBT.  A win with decent activity will give more than enough reward to offset the desire to chase K/D ratios.  He did state at the OP that it is not about chasing stats , its about notching marks in the win column.  Wins pay so much more that even a mediocre performance will frequently garner more for you than being number 1 in kills and losing.  

 

Its a choice.  Success in win rate and making for a easier time spading and unlocking new vehicles.  Or you chase a K/D stat and experience more frustration spading/unlocking vehicles.  

 

I am by no means an excellent player. (full disclosure) I don't chase stats, I am not a member of a squadron, and I played idiotically when I started the game.  My current focus is just to spade and learn the vehicles.     But I do  try to win and I support whatever random person is my squadmate.  If he's competent we have a great match and easy kills will come.  If we do not I made his match less awful.  I can get a win with 80% activity and 1 kill but have my teammate be in top 5 and be much more satisfied than scoring high in kills  and losing.  

 

IMHO following the tactical advice he's proffered will improve your rewards that if you commit to doing them for a week and pay attention to what you gain, you will wonder why you played any other way.

 

But this is strictly my personal opinion.

[the_dr_slump@psn 227]

He averages less than 60% win ratio in tier 4 and tier 5 british tanks, which is below his overall average including occasionally (or often?) playing in squads. While I don't know how the Vickers stats came together, all while being rather low in numbers (25 games isn't much), it doesn't nearly live up to "quite good". I'm not saying an average below 60% is bad or that he's a bad player, it's just worse than his usual good performance.

 

Factually, with those tanks he's performing below his personal (good) average.

Edited April 4, 2018 by *the_dr_slump

[No_Camping 1,804]

8 hours ago, *the_dr_slump said:

He averages less than 60% win ratio in tier 4 and tier 5 british tanks, which is below his overall average including occasionally (or often?) playing in squads. While I don't know how the Vickers stats came together, all while being rather low in numbers (25 games isn't much), it doesn't nearly live up to "quite good". I'm not saying an average below 60% is bad or that he's a bad player, it's just worse than his usual good performance.

 

Factually, with those tanks he's performing below his personal (good) average.

If you read my PS above, I explain that I do not like the UK tanks because they are "all the same" and boring bigger and bigger versions of the first Centurion (but I have no problem with people enjoying them; I simply do not and I am playing to have fun first. Hence you have also to acknowledge that these are stats for stock tanks that I spaded alone much before I realized one could play in squad (only last year; I know...)!... Anyway, my two buddies play them more and their results with them are excellent.

And hum, dear @*the_dr_slump, I find your comment a bit salty considering that you have simply never played these British Tier 4 and 5 tanks yourself... Not one single battle yet. Actually, you have only 3 battles in Tier 5-6 so far (any nation; I have nearly 5000 in 5 nations: 1500+ US; 1200+ Russia, 800+ in French and German, 200+ in UK). So we'll see when you'll get there . And let's see if you can reproduce that kind of win rates there.

 

Anyway, my point is that you can have excellent results with these Brits. I never said they were the best tanks at Tier 5. Again, you can have good results with mostly all tanks. Some tanks are better, so you will have better results with them, although "better" is a different notion for each player and "better" tanks are also those who suit your play style (I am a very aggressive player and slow British tanks do not suit my style, although I played them enough; as many battles in my Centurion Mk 10 as you in your most played tank). But none of the top 5 best equipped nations in the game is an excuse for an overall bad win rate (and even Japan is not if you avoid some BR ranges).
That, was my point.

Actually, since I guess you will start playing Tier 5 soon (I also understand that you are not in this game since long although you are already doing well), here is how I would rank the 7.7 line-ups (AB/RB):
1/ Russia (by far, by number, variety, and overall performance; T-54, Object 120, 268, 906, BMP-1, IS-6, ZSU AA not so good with plane...)
2/ France (AMX-50 Surbaissé has a beast gun and reload, Foch has a stronk armor and gun, AMX-30 is much better now, in strength between the T-54 and  the Leopard I, AMX-30 DCA is by far the best AA there...)
3/-4/ US and UK  (question of taste and depends on the map; great M103, good mobility and HEATFS in favor of US - but HEAT is useless on maps with obstacles without a good machine gun (like the 20mm of the AMX-30) to destroy them; strong APDS and good turret armor for the UK, but bad mobility; Falcon is a very good AA but with too little ammo)
5/ The Germans simply do not have a real 7.7 line-up even if the Leopard I and JadTiger are OK
6/ Yeah, sure... They have one nice tank

In AB, BR 7.7 is now by far the most balanced BR in the game (8.0 is very nice too), as people playing above 8.3 are in fact playing 9.3 and you can do well with any nation (if the enemy team does not concentrate the Russian and French tanks in RB...)
Note that at 8.0, T-62 is inferior, to my opinion, to the UK Chieftain Mk.3, and certainly to the US T95E1. And the Germans have the Maus. So a bit more balance there.

Finally, if you read my original tutorial, I explain that the KDR is totally irrelevant to assess the impact of a player in a ground AB battle. I see many (and know some) players with apparently impressive KDR, but with very mediocre win rates. These overly prudent players are generally very passive, good campers (good snipers as they would call themselves; which is better than most bad campers) and make the "easy kills", the irrelevant kills far from where the battle is actually decided (near caps). At the end; their good KDR does not hide the fact that they have no impact at all in the outcome of the battle. Finally, the KDR of a tank does not mean anything either. It depends so much if you use it as a first (very aggressive play, like with the Vickers), the second or the last spawn (more prudent play).
In AB, you have 3 spawns to win the battle. Forget your KDR and you will win more battles.
This too common KDR obsession is as bizarre as if football players would be more interested in the goal difference rather than in winning matches...

I develop this point here:

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by No_Camping

[No_Camping 1,804]

Centurion Mk10 (+Chieftain Mk3 if things go badly; they did not) doing good (trolling?) in a 8.0-9.0 battle

Edited April 5, 2018 by No_Camping

[No_Camping 1,804]

I added a short video to the tutorial, illustrating several of the tips discussed there:
Ground AB at BR 8.0 on the Korea/38th Parallel map (not 37th like I say in the video...)
 

• Don’t necessarily go first to the cap were everybody goes: at first, our squad went to the connected caps A+B where this battle is simply always won, while most of the other players in both teams initially went to camp/snipe in C.
• Spawn intelligently: after my Maus is destroyed in B, and A+B being secured (mostly by our squad of 4), I decide to go to C.
• Mind the caps: the objective is clearly to take C, not to camp/snipe...
• Watch your f...ing map: the map shows the location of many enemy campers, and that of a courageous enemy Maus blocking/scaring our team.
• Learn the critical spots of a map (and how to get there fast): exploiting the terrain (rocks) and the speed of my tank, there are two main ways to go fast from spawn to C without any trouble from enemy campers (which makes this systematic camping stalemate in C quite absurd). I chose the less safe one as the Maus is blocking my alternative route.
• Move and be active: after dying near B, I go to C, uncap it, kill the Maus (with a little luck), and finally cap C... all this in 2 minutes!.
• Use in-game messages: as I am approaching the Maus, I invite my teammates to "follow me!".
• Lead by example: as I rush to C and start fighting the Maus, my teammates finally decide to abandon their camping position and to help me with the Maus!
• Learn about the tanks: after the Maus is disabled, the final blow is given by a single shot in the ammo rack (shooting at this spot often one-shot kills a Maus).
• Spawn-killing: as the enemy team is agonizing, I consider that there is no shame in shortening their suffering as we did later in this battle.
• Make friends and squad up: a good strategy is easier to implement when playing in a squad. Yet, a single player can have a huge impact in a battle, and a squad of players not following the simple tips of this tutorial will simply not. Our squad finally took the 4 top spots of the team with a total of 20 kills and all three caps captured by us.

Edited April 6, 2018 by No_Camping

[P8triot 3,894]

Another Observation:

 

@No_Camping I am curious of your view on this...

With winning as the goal, it is only necessary to take and hold 2 of the 3 caps strictly speaking. Whomever holds 2 caps will begin ticket bleed on the other.  I have seen many matches where if we just held the 2 caps and not gotten greedy, we would have won. But we stretched our resources too thin and they nibbled down our line like hungry caterpillars on a leaf.

 

This is something to keep in mind on games where there has been a great deal of attrition on your team.  If you can hold 2 do not squander the win trying to get a 3rd if you don't have enough strength to get it.  Especially if they are camping around that 3rd cap.  I prefer to let them sit there and bleed to death.  When they finally realize they are about to lose and  the panic sets in(it always does) enjoy the whack-a-mole that results form them blindly rushing toward the other caps! This is admittedly a more dangerous scenario, if you have the vehicles , going for all 3 is preferable.

 

In this situation you have to play defense. Defense is not being a castle, you are a mobile bunker with cavalry...

It goes against a lot of people's nature but defense played right is a huge force multiplier.

 

Defense is not staying in one spot like you are some kind of 18th century cannon piece on some rampart.  The biggest mistake I see people make is shooting from just one spot, never moving.  Eventually someone is going to dial in on you and take you out.  If you have to play defense do not sit in one spot.  I like to find a spot that I can shoot from cover, move, and shoot from a different spot.  And don't sit  looking thru sights.  Stay in cover and use binoculars, then spring out and ambush!   And playing defense does not mean you do not move forward.  Korea map is great because there are spots where you can present an inviting target, move a tiny bit to the side while behind cover and move forward to ambush the flank of an enemy that decided to press your 'blind spot'.  I also like to find spots where I can engage at less than 250m.  I want any shot I take to be a kill shot.  I am not going to waste time shooting at long distance enemies; it wastes ammo, gives away my position, and distracts me from possible flankers.

 

Admittedly, there was already an issue if you have gotten to the point where  your team is weaker and  you are already in danger of losing. However,  employing good defensive tactics and holding 2 caps will even the odds if done right and turn some of those defeats into wins.

 

Your thoughts?

[No_Camping 1,804]

15 hours ago, P8triot said:

With winning as the goal, it is only necessary to take and hold 2 of the 3 caps strictly speaking.

You are perfectly right. in fact, in the 3-cap situation (the most interesting for me), there are typically 2 structures
Admitting that one side spawns to the north and the other to the south, the 2 structures are:
- "Horizontal" zone setup where the 2 teams have to compete for 3 zones at the time at equal distance from the spawn(s) of both teams. My video example of the 38th parallel/Korea map clearly fits in this category, along with Berlin, Poland, Ash River, Tunisia, Finland, Fulda, Maginot... These maps have usually (but not always) several spawns for each team.
- "Vertical" zone setup where one cap naturally belongs to each team and they compete for the central zone. This setup almost amounts to have only one central cap, since each team usually retains its natural zone, unless one team is completely trashed. Ardennes, eastern Europe, and Mozdok are typical examples of  such maps which generally have only one spawn for each team.

 

A few maps having apparently a "triangular" zone setup in fact naturally fit in either of these 2 categories. Advance to the Rhine, Sinai, and Jungle have a "vertical" structure as B and C naturally belong to each team, while they have to seriously compete for A (isolated from B and C, instead of between B and C in pure "vertical" maps, which makes these maps very interesting; but, it's an other story...).

Stalingrad is probably a rare case of a strange mix of these 2 classes (although it is a bit closer to a "vertical" structure as C is easier to cap by the north-west side and A by the south-east side).

The most common and interesting setting is by far the "horizontal" one, where you have first to decide where to spawn and, most importantly, toward which zone(s) to go fight. To my opinion, the best general approach is to spawn massively to the spawn offering the most options and hence closer to two well-connected caps: west spawn to A+B in Korea or Japan, west spawn to C+B in Tunisia, Finland or Maginot. In some small maps where all 3 zones are well connected, like Poland, the first chosen spawn is not that important.
The point of this "strategy" is, as you note, securing the area covering two zones, implicitly abandoning the third one to the enemy (except if they are too passive, where you can spare some players to take the last zone, like in my video example). Strangely enough, on maps like Korea or Tunisia, most players actually go first to the isolated/irrelevant zone (the camping rocky hills above C in Korea, the city in A in Tunisia...). Either the two teams annihilate each other there or one overcomes the other, but what happens there and kills obtained there have very little or no influence at all on the result of the battle (not all kills are equal as I state in my tutorial). A good player or a good squad going where it matters (the two connected caps) is almost sure to have a huge impact on the outcome of the battle on such maps (in squad, we almost never loose these two maps, unless facing a very good squad with the same strategy; in that case 8 players totally decide the issue of the battle and the many ones fighting near the isolated cap are totally irrelevant, whatever their number of kills, as hard as it is to hear).

In my video illustration, the team we were facing was particularly passive, and I respawned in C as the situation was totally in control in A+B, and also to practice on C (as we always go to A+B). But usually, I keep on respawning in A+B if I see a possibility for the enemy to retake them.
 

15 hours ago, P8triot said:

In this situation you have to play defense. Defense is not being a castle, you are a mobile bunker with cavalry...

It goes against a lot of people's nature but defense played right is a huge force multiplier.

Of course, in some situations, the battle is tough if you face a competent team, or if your team is particularly bad (or both conditions). In that case, "playing defense" (yet trying to defend caps by being ahead of them, not behind) is essential. In this case, being able to easily communicate between 2 caps (to retake them or defend the one in most danger) is decisive since you need 2 caps to win, as you mentioned (a fact ignored by too many players)! Hence the systematic choice of good and objective-oriented players to pick the spawn to the 2 connected caps from the start, and again, (and again for an eventual third spawn), if necessary. I cannot tell you how many times I wrote "Guys, forget C, concentrate on A+B" in the team chat in tough Korea battles with a bad start and facing a good team (hence massively present in A+B)... Sometimes, our team listens... Sometimes, it does not (and the battle rarely ends well in that case).

 

Finally, it is clear that a squad of 4 will have a bigger impact than a single player but not for the reason that most people not playing in squad imagine! Communication is important, but the most important advantage of a squad arises when squadmates are fighting following the same strategy (and have one, and preferably a good one! A good full squad systematically spawning to C in Korea will win much less often than if they had spawned to go to A+B). For a good and active player playing alone, the interest to spawn near two close and well-connected zones is obvious as he/she will be able to easily go from one to the other to contribute to take/defend them.

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by No_Camping

[No_Camping 1,804]

Just added the 3 following sections and reordered the different topics in a more logical order:

Spread: as you advance toward the enemy, we just saw that it can be very effective to tag along with a squadmate or a simple unknown but active teammate (use the message "follow me")? Yet, do not join big groups of friendly tanks cluttered behind a house or a rock, or on a cap: they are perfect targets for artillery and planes... and you will be too if you go there. Hence, be aware of artillery (especially if you are in a paper tank), of enemies starting an air session in AB, and more generally, of the enemy planes in the air in all game modes... which leads me to...

Use planes: in RB/SB, and preferably if you are a good pilot, do not hesitate to take planes (if possible fighters with some bombs and/or rockets). Yet, never forget that a plane cannot take a cap... and hence do not spawn in a plane just because you feel like it, if your team has too little presence on the ground or if capturing zones is becoming an urgent matter... If allied tanks become too isolated, they will also become weaker targets for the enemy ground forces. In AB, learn to use bombs/rockets going for the most dangerously located or the best enemy tanks (or even for the best enemy players!), or to unblock a situation, or aiming at big groups of enemy tanks (see above). If you take a fighter, imperatively protect your allied bomber and/or attacker. If not, just stay in your tank and leave the fighter to a less useless teammate. Depending on the month of the year (it seems that Gaijin is continuously changing opinion on the matter), light ground targets can be rammed or not. If ramming is on, do not hesitate to do it (play by the rules, even if you do not agree with them), but only after having accomplished your primary task (bombing ground targets or defending your allied planes).

Use artillery: as light and medium can launch artillery strikes, again preferably target big groups of enemy tanks (artillery will have a better chance to hit something), or use it on tanks located at a critical spot. Be altruistic: only aiming artillery strikes at the enemy facing you will be less effective, and may cause your own death... In fact, do not launch artillery on a cap which is about to be captured by your team, even if one enemy is still there. In RB/SB, launch your artillery in the beginning of the battle on the first cap near the enemy spawn (only in maps with 3 "vertical" caps) or on spots where you know that the enemy is bound to pass through or to camp.  In RB, artillery also serves the purpose of locating enemies, as hits will appear on the mini-map of all allies.

Edited April 7, 2018 by No_Camping

[areianaras 10]

Good JOB

[TheElite96 5,839]

Wow, nice job with this! This might help me a bit

[No_Camping 1,804]

areianaras (Go Aris!)

and

TheElite96

Thanks guys!

[YK1Spartan 0]

 

Followed your advice and had the best game last night! 4 kills and a win. I was playing on the Japan map and I just capped C and moved off to one side and waited for the red team to come over get comfortable and then bam scrap metal. waited a few mins and then recaptured C and then moved to cover. In the end 3 of the red team cornered me, I took out one and the other 2 took me out. Respawned and took revenge on one and then headed for B since we had A and B. found a nice quiet spot and waited and bam another one. the last man standing for blue and we won. I love the smell of burning tanks...

[No_Camping 1,804]

7 hours ago, YK1Spartan said:

 

Followed your advice and had the best game last night! 4 kills and a win

Happy to have been useful! Keep on the good job!

[Suppiee 72]

I mean if I suck and my team sucks how am I to win? Sometimes russian bias is there, sometimes not. And In PVE battles I can BARELY pen heavy tanks or whatever, like the CHI RI 2 or the Heavy tank No 6.

[No_Camping 1,804]

At one point, we were there. (with 93 tickets left, less than a kill at 1'15" in the video)...

 

Always fight until the end

Edited January 1, 2019 by No_Camping

[KRAKENGARD12345 1]

Deleted

Edited July 9, 2020 by KRAKENGARD
Deleted

[No_Camping 1,804]

5 hours ago, KRAKENGARD said:

And please can someone do something about the seal clubbing which was out of control back in 2017 and is just as bad today. It ruins the experience of any new player that may have an interest in this game and I'm referring mostly to many of the squadrons.

I have not a lot of respects for squadrons of experienced players mostly playing in Tier I (I won't tell names, but it is easy to find out). They do not realize that they disgust the fresh batch of new players, which is bad for everybody.  But be sure that these players are actually very mediocre when they try a few battles in higher Tiers...