P-51 is OP for BR4

[VaperTrail 343]

1 hour ago, LoserRoccii888 said:

The Yak-9T seem to be better than before.

It can climb like an UFO. I´ve seen in the last days very often 9T´s at the same altitude as my G.55S.

My climbrate is 26.4m/s and the Yak-9T has a climbrate around 18,9m/s!

How is it possible that he can be at the same altitude?

For me it´s a miracle and it can accelerate like a rocket and turnfight like zero.

Was there a buff for the Yak-9 Series in the last Patch 1.71?

 

The 9Ts 37ml is practically useless compared to how it was a few patches back, actually any of the lower BR big shell weapons like the Aircobra Hurricane etc are so bad they a waste of time to fly now, never seen so much sparking in anything as you get in these, I think their nerf was part of the bomber buff, It seems like the game mechanics and rewards doesn't want you to fly fighters.

 

I don't like saying any plane is OP because people jump on it and then its nerfed, puts me right off spending any money on planes knowing they will be ruined by Gaijin sooner or later.

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

18 minutes ago, CoolJ said:

Having four cannons does not qualify any plane as good. See 190A variants that are astronomically over BR because of the imposed gun tax.

Exactly...The 190 A-5/U12 at a 6.0 BR is ridiculous and only there because of 6 x 20mm cannons...It can barely get out of it's own way and with such a bad FM and nose heavy as hell because of all the weapons it is a free kill for any fighter within 3 miles of it...All the cannons in the world won't make any difference if you cannot bring them to bear on the target and the only real danger the A-5/U12 presents is to people who only know how to head on others...

[ArthurBloss 633]

1 hour ago, HochgeborenKlown said:

... the only real danger the A-5/U12 presents is to people who only know how to head on others...

 

Well, that seems to be a very common part of the gameplay in warthunder. Otherwise I have no explanation for the 4.0 BR of the Do 217 J1/J2. These things can't even hope to evade counterfire with their abysmal rollrates and size.

[CoolJ 1,082]

34 minutes ago, ArthurBloss said:

 

Well, that seems to be a very common part of the gameplay in warthunder. Otherwise I have no explanation for the 4.0 BR of the Do 217 J1/J2. These things can't even hope to evade counterfire with their abysmal rollrates and size.

 

Correct. The propensity of the player base as a whole to engage in such behavior is a fundamental mistake that is exploitable to your benefit. The fact that people choose not to exploit the weakness of the enemy aircraft indicates a combination of ignorance and bravado that is inherent to the community. It's one of the reasons that the use of player performance to "balance" battle rating is conceptually flawed. Babe Ruth's bat was not better than the other bats in the league. He was better at using it.

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

17 hours ago, CoolJ said:

Babe Ruth's bat was not better than the other bats in the league. He was better at using it.

This says it all...

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

3 hours ago, HochgeborenKlown said:

This says it all...

It's a dumb analogy because if MLB behaved like Gaijin they would buff others' bats And everyone in MLB uses bats made to spec.

Edited September 23, 2017 by TheD2JBug

[GregKjr 520]

1 hour ago, TheD2JBug said:

It's a dumb analogy because if MLB behaved like Gaijin they would buff others' bats And everyone in MLB uses bats made to spec.

 

you are completely ignoring aircraft like the Spitfire mk9 <- because of how different groups of people were using it it was even dropped from sale in the Us tech tree for a time.... wile still being available in the Uk tech tree for free ....

 

same Spitfire different player groups so different results.

 

 

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

The thing about the Mark 9 is that I almost never see it downtiered to club. Yet the hispano stang spam is real when I fly my 3.0 and 3.3 lineups

[*luckysocks 113]

There are so many planes needing reassment of their br, someone already mentioned the 217 fighter that sits at the same br as the la7! It's obviously not being addressed, maybe there's to much focus on keeping the new Italian planes op as hell.....

[RZ2000 62]

I find how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ a plane is generally doesn’t matter as much as how skilled the pilot is. 

[VaperTrail 343]

1 hour ago, RZ2000 said:

I find how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ a plane is generally doesn’t matter as much as how skilled the pilot is. 

 

That's it in a nutshell, you can have the best plane but if the pilot is average then so is his plane.

 

Because of the constant plane-quality vs pilot-skill that is like a revolving door every match,  there will always be perceived clubber's and wacko BR,  not everyone can club no matter what they fly, true balancing is impossible with so many variables inherent in the game like skill, plane dynamics lag and hit detection.

[RZ2000 62]

42 minutes ago, VaperTrail said:

 

That's it in a nutshell, you can have the best plane but if the pilot is average then so is his plane.

 

Because of the constant plane-quality vs pilot-skill that is like a revolving door every match,  there will always be perceived clubber's and wacko BR,  not everyone can club no matter what they fly, true balancing is impossible with so many variables inherent in the game like skill, plane dynamics lag and hit detection.

I mean, sure tank BR matters, as tanks are a very ‘linear’ and invariable type of vehicle. Planes, in contrast, are highly variable. No plane is ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than another, merely better or worse in certain areas.

 

The quote “a weapon is only as effective as its user” is quite fitting.

 

Planes can’t really ‘club’ the ways tanks can. Whilst a KV-2 can blast any tank to kingdom come, no plane can simply stomp all other planes in its BR. 

 

Ive taken apparently ‘OP’ planes and have lost due to the other pilot being better than me (seriously, nobody is an omni god that is untouchable), but that doesn’t say anything about the planes we flew, only the players that flew them.

 

The P-51 is good in certain areas, but the pilot must take advantage of this or he will be easily killed by any aircraft. This is no different from any other plane

[Tigerspook 315]

I don't think the argument is about better pilot = better result. 

 

The argument is that a poor pilot can get a disproportionately good result using the cannonstang. The unskilled pilot flies in at speed, spams and sprays, gets 2 or 3 kills, and then dies. That's the veritable definition of OP.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Tigerspook

[PARAMI 478]

You speak the truth, although the noobstang is very feared for some certain reasons that make it very stupid-proof. Firstly, the guns will work every single time no matter how bad your aim is. That's why the noobstang is probably the plane I fear most when it's either facing me or on my tail. Secondly, its flight model isn't great, but it's not that bad either, unlike most of the planes that have great guns (they tend to either have absurdly high BRs or absurdly bad flighty models). A combination of both factors make this plane deadly in even the most unskilled hands, and totally frustrating to face in certain situations. When there's a good pilot behind the controls of that thing, it's an absolute n00b-slayer. 

[Tigerspook 315]

1 hour ago, PennyWort said:

... Secondly, its flight model isn't great, but it's not that bad either, unlike most of the planes that have great guns (they tend to either have absurdly high BRs or absurdly bad flighty models). A combination of both factors make this plane deadly in even the most unskilled hands,...

 

Indeed. Compare to the FW 190 A-4 at BR 4.3. This has 4x 20mm, but of mismatched types - a pair each of the outstanding MG151 and the decent FF/M. In addition, the 190 has a more challenging (though not necessarily inferior) flight model. But put a n00b in a FW 190 and he's prop-handing or otherwise low and slow in no time. There is no easier kill in WT.  The same pilot in a P-51 is spraying and praying into the furball with 4 very consistent cannons and doesn't have a flight model where performance just falls off a cliff.

[GregKjr 520]

22 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

 

Indeed. Compare to the FW 190 A-4 at BR 4.3. This has 4x 20mm, but of mismatched types - a pair each of the outstanding MG151 and the decent FF/M. In addition, the 190 has a more challenging (though not necessarily inferior) flight model. But put a n00b in a FW 190 and he's prop-handing or otherwise low and slow in no time. There is no easier kill in WT.  The same pilot in a P-51 is spraying and praying into the furball with 4 very consistent cannons and doesn't have a flight model where performance just falls off a cliff.

 

The problem is if what Gaijin say is true about how battle ratings are set the opposite of your statement must be true. <- unfortunately because the Brs are set how thy say. The high Br on the fw190 drives new players away from the aircraft. Because the majority of pilots using it are more experienced and don't make those kinds of mistakes as much thus by supporting the Br.

 

so it's more of a issue that we have so many inexperienced pilots in the cannon P-51 that their terribleness can hide/offset/conceal the more experienced guys using it from the Br generating algorithm. Basically the Br generating algorithm needs supervision by a person.

 

In the end what you are saying is accurate but probably not for the reasons you think.     "E pluribus unum" at it's finest.

[Mantis_Religiosa 727]

On 21/09/2017 at 14:26, Ghostweed said:

So i returned to the WT after some time and man all i see is P-51 spam. That plane became my nemesis as its outruns me in my FW-190 A-4 (Ace), outturns me, outclimb me, outdive me, kill me with one burst and eats like zillions of 20mm minengeschoss. FW-190 A-4 is BR 4,3 and i dont stand a chance against P-51 on BR 4,0. Is this the real world? Howgh!

What American plane is NOT OP is the question xd, p51s now hold energy better than yaks, you'll see them doing repetitive Boom and zoom faster than usual because they hold speed in turns now. 

[TheFoxInTheBox_ 217]

Did you really just bring up a post from 3 years ago

[Lexing_ 241]

10 hours ago, KamikazeRico said:

What American plane is NOT OP is the question xd, p51s now hold energy better than yaks, you'll see them doing repetitive Boom and zoom faster than usual because they hold speed in turns now. 

Rico moment

[Ashwin19 5]

it's rico, he's turbo disabled

[f_ritz 24]

The 4.0 Mustangs aren't very good imo.

 

How you deal with them depends on what plane you're in; if you're in a 190 it might outclass you. But 190s as a whole are overtiered and don't belong above 5.3.

If you're in something like a Yak/La/109/anything Italian or Japanese you can outturn most Mustangs or deplete their speed as their low-speed handling is trash.

On 24/09/2017 at 20:08, Tigerspook said:

But put a n00b in a FW 190 and he's prop-handing or otherwise low and slow in no time. There is no easier kill in WT.  The same pilot in a P-51 is spraying and praying into the furball with 4 very consistent cannons and doesn't have a flight model where performance just falls off a cliff.

N00bs will prop-hang or spray and pray in anything. In my experience I've found it easier to kill a prop-hanging Mustang, just because of the aforemented low-speed handling and how long it takes for them to flip over. I'd almost move the Mustangs to 3.7.

The problem lies with truly braindead planes like the 109 F-4 and the J2M that outclass everything within at least 1 BR of them that need to be put at their proper BRs.

Edited January 16, 2021 by TheVozhd

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

the noobstang thread is back

[VT_88 342]

Gee a FW German player complaining the Americans are killing him.

 

God forbid to remove the OP German line. Quick up the BR on any plane that challenges the Germans.

 

Don't believe me. Just flay and almost everyone is using a German plane

[Mantis_Religiosa 727]

On 21/09/2017 at 14:26, Ghostweed said:

So i returned to the WT after some time and man all i see is P-51 spam. That plane became my nemesis as its outruns me in my FW-190 A-4 (Ace), outturns me, outclimb me, outdive me, kill me with one burst and eats like zillions of 20mm minengeschoss. FW-190 A-4 is BR 4,3 and i dont stand a chance against P-51 on BR 4,0. Is this the real world? Howgh!

welcome to USA bias.