important! Squadron battles poll/vote

[Taurus1978 188]

As we know they are going to do test of new squadron battles, which will exclude a lot of long time players that do not have top br planes/tanks. I think this very unfair, and so do other clan members.

Please feel free to vote as you wish.

 

Squadron battle changes, and my ideas - PLEASE READ

 

1)

I know this going to be a TEST, but a 2 month test is too much. If you implemented this as a dev test like you did the boats etc that would be fine. No one wants to do a test and possibly lose thousands of Silver Lions in the process just to prove something.

 

2)

The BR system you are thinking of introducing, is going to fail massively. You will exclude half of the squadron battle community by introducing higher BR vehicles. Most of clans do not have these vehicles, the game mode will turn into a sniping contest with atgm's one shooting across the map and Horton's wrecking engine decks. Not going to be fun.

 

3)

We have already lost enough of the community, please don't do this, I can see more leaving as a result of this. I am all about the game, and more the players. I speak to other clans and people every day, they love the game like I do.

 

4)

If you was to introduce Tier 1 v Tier 1, and Tier 3 V Tier 3 etc, that would get more players active in the game. But to implement what your are suggesting to do will drive players away, and we don't want that to happen do we. So for example, if you want to do jets/atgms give them that choice to do that in SQB, don't force it.

You will get more revenue as a company doing the way I suggested. More active players, More Dollars.

 

5)

When you are going to make changes like this, may I suggest you put up a chat in the hanger, so all commanders can see what may change, and if necessary invite the commanders to Discord for a voice chat. Not all are active on Forum's and messaging is a pain as you don't always get your voice across.

 

6)

Fantastic News on the new Discord guys, I like it. Maybe this could be a new way forward from now on, to have little one on one chats with admins and Devs and such. Let's keep the community spirit up. And I think this is one way of doing it. By Discord.

Edited October 31, 2017 by COOLER_KING
spelling

[Sworn_Assassin 37]

I vote no, this test could have been made like the last one in the event section... that failed, that they thought was so great and actually turned out not to be. If you want to expand the use of vehicles and keep squadron battles alive and attract more players, the only way to do it is to lower the requirements by using lower vehicles... such as

 

Weeks 1&2 - Tier 1

Weeks 3&4 - Tier 2 and below

Weeks 5&6 - Tier 3 and below

Weeks 6&7 - Tier 4 and below

 

Honestly i think that squadron battles are perfect where they are at, it requires people to play and gain experience and knowledge in the game before they are introduced to a mode that is too tough for many.  But forcing people to grind through tier 6 and buy the vehicles and place them and spade them and expert them is just nonsense.

 

It also would be nice to be able to show off our personal stats in squadron battles, and have personal incentives like achievements, titles, and decals for Individual personal achievements in squadron battles..

 

In conclusion, changing the mode that most of us have worked years to get to and maxed out to compete, is really a slap in the face.  Out of all of our players in our competitive squadron we have about 3 or 4 that can actually make up a lineup to play into tier 5 and 6. 

 

Respectfully,

Sworn Assassin

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sworn_Assassin

[RustyEagle 470]

so players who like to play tier 5 and 6 vehicles cant ever use them in squad battles because other people don't have them unlocked?? i don't agree with how gaijin is implementing this and i do agree that some people will be left out. however for people to say that tier 5 sqd battles sucks when they have never even played it is just stupid.

[Sworn_Assassin 37]

55 minutes ago, RustyEagle said:

so players who like to play tier 5 and 6 vehicles cant ever use them in squad battles because other people don't have them unlocked?? i don't agree with how gaijin is implementing this and i do agree that some people will be left out. however for people to say that tier 5 sqd battles sucks when they have never even played it is just stupid.

who wants to play squadron battles with jets chasing each other around the edges of the map? for years gaijin said they would never go past tier 4 in squadron battles and once again they have lied to us all

[DeKrieg 1,290]

There are many issues here

 

Firstly its being applied to both realistic and arcade, and while realistic players did express interest in a rotation at the squadron meeting, none of the arcade players did, so its no surprise that players like Sworn who primarily play arcade feel betrayed by Gaijin. I dont know if its possible to separate the two modes in terms of this rotation system, I get the feeling the two modes run off the same matchmaker so you cant have one use the rotation system and the other doesnt.

 

Secondly while realistic players made a request for more diversity in squadron battles and a few did suggest a rotation system, none of them made the suggestion Gaijin went with, no one wanted it to spread to the very top br.

 

Thirdly I'd be fine with tier 5 making up one section of a season.

 

But at the moment, after the first two weeks it's tier 5 and up all the time  from that point on for 6 weeks.

 

the 7.0 bracket is broken when you consider that it will be including all the early tier 5 tanks, so tiger 105, centuiran mark 10 and object 906. But worse it's tier 5 for jets and specifically only one japanese jet bomber.

 

I'd personally rather not go as far down as tier 1. I'd argue that ground forces doesnt really get interesting until br 3.3 when most nations gets a tank that defines a large part of their tree going forward (panzer 4 f2, t34 1941, cromwell V, sherman.)  so I'd say somewhere just above that (4.0) should be the lowest it can go. It's also around 3.0 - 4.0 that you see the mid world war 2 props  like the bf 109 f4, spitfire mkV etc

 

Equally I'd argue going all the way up to 9.0 makes things equally unappealing but 8.0 still offers enough variety both in the air and ground that for just 2 weeks at the end of the season if it offered an 8.0 bracket things would get interesting. The air doesnt become dominated with the super jets, there is a nice mix of good air sup jets and excellent ground attack jets and on the ground there are plenty of MBTS and spaag options but its not crowded with atgms. perhaps the spaag might be too strong with some nations. Another option could be to cut it at 7.7 but I dont think most nations air force will feel ripped off by that.

 

So the 4 periods might be best as:

 

4.0 (mid ww2 planes and tanks)

6.0 (mid/late ww2 planes/tanks)

6.7 (late/post ww2 planes/tanks)

8.0 (post ww2 jets/tanks)

 

 

[Sworn_Assassin 37]

38 minutes ago, DeKrieg said:

There are many issues here

 

Firstly its being applied to both realistic and arcade, and while realistic players did express interest in a rotation at the squadron meeting, none of the arcade players did, so its no surprise that players like Sworn who primarily play arcade feel betrayed by Gaijin. I dont know if its possible to separate the two modes in terms of this rotation system, I get the feeling the two modes run off the same matchmaker so you cant have one use the rotation system and the other doesnt.

 

Secondly while realistic players made a request for more diversity in squadron battles and a few did suggest a rotation system, none of them made the suggestion Gaijin went with, no one wanted it to spread to the very top br.

 

Thirdly I'd be fine with tier 5 making up one section of a season.

 

But at the moment, after the first two weeks it's tier 5 and up all the time  from that point on for 6 weeks.

 

the 7.0 bracket is broken when you consider that it will be including all the early tier 5 tanks, so tiger 105, centuiran mark 10 and object 906. But worse it's tier 5 for jets and specifically only one japanese jet bomber.

 

I'd personally rather not go as far down as tier 1. I'd argue that ground forces doesnt really get interesting until br 3.3 when most nations gets a tank that defines a large part of their tree going forward (panzer 4 f2, t34 1941, cromwell V, sherman.)  so I'd say somewhere just above that (4.0) should be the lowest it can go. It's also around 3.0 - 4.0 that you see the mid world war 2 props  like the bf 109 f4, spitfire mkV etc

 

Equally I'd argue going all the way up to 9.0 makes things equally unappealing but 8.0 still offers enough variety both in the air and ground that for just 2 weeks at the end of the season if it offered an 8.0 bracket things would get interesting. The air doesnt become dominated with the super jets, there is a nice mix of good air sup jets and excellent ground attack jets and on the ground there are plenty of MBTS and spaag options but its not crowded with atgms. perhaps the spaag might be too strong with some nations. Another option could be to cut it at 7.7 but I dont think most nations air force will feel ripped off by that.

 

So the 4 periods might be best as:

 

4.0 (mid ww2 planes and tanks)

6.0 (mid/late ww2 planes/tanks)

6.7 (late/post ww2 planes/tanks)

8.0 (post ww2 jets/tanks)

 

 

i suppose i am a bit salty lol, but u make a great point.. these changes effect AB a great deal more than RB.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sworn_Assassin

[Sworn_Assassin 37]

observation from yesterday... La-9's and K-4's against open top SPAA's with no closed top is just misery on the ground... you don't even need bombs anymore for SPAA's

[UDiedToAMonkey 42]

The idea of changing BR every week is very nice. But imo its too high tier.

[ajgooner66@psn 61]

For the vast majority of my squadron the weeks at 8.0 and 9.0 will kill any chance we had of resurrecting SRB as an active squadron event as so few have vehicles at these levels at all and and almost none have spaded vehicles at these levels, apart from the weeks at 6.0 and 7.0 this season will be dead to us. If these changes become permanent SRB is finished for us an I know other squadrons in exactly the same position. If you want to kill SRB completly this is going to do it. Cheers for wasting our time.

[Irony_Chicken 1,135]

Only 118 squadrons last time I looked, who are getting any points this season, last season was 140 .. 22 Squadrons less already ...... These changes may well finish Squabs ... Snail willing ...

 

RETHINK .. quick please... 

[Sworn_Assassin 37]

21 hours ago, Nar_Udautas said:

Only 118 squadrons last time I looked, who are getting any points this season, last season was 140 .. 22 Squadrons less already ...... These changes may well finish Squabs ... Snail willing ...

 

RETHINK .. quick please... 

yeah and the problem is i most everyone outside the top 100 only play about 10 battles a season or just play 2 or 3... i swear we constantly see the same teams in queue every time we play and it is not always points related... we played GROZA 5 times last friday in 8 games.. and i know for a fact most squadrons are going to simply ignore squad battles during the 2nd month of the season.. cuz the BR is too high and no-one really wants to play jets.. I suppose we will play it to see what is going on even though most of us don't have the vehicles.. but we won't participate long more than likely.

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

My squadron did probably 20 battles on Saturday... but we also only consistently manage to play that one day. We're still not top 100. We were 154 on Saturday. This morning, we're 177. There must be more than 118 teams active. 

[*GLITCH-JEDI 13]

On 04/11/2017 at 5:35 AM, *ajgooner66 said:

For the vast majority of my squadron the weeks at 8.0 and 9.0 will kill any chance we had of resurrecting SRB as an active squadron event as so few have vehicles at these levels at all and and almost none have spaded vehicles at these levels, apart from the weeks at 6.0 and 7.0 this season will be dead to us. If these changes become permanent SRB is finished for us an I know other squadrons in exactly the same position. If you want to kill SRB completly this is going to do it. Cheers for wasting our time.

AjGooner.   I've been playing since November 2013 . And to say that this will destroy SRB is wrong. You say your squadron is struggling even to get SRB Top 100 rank in old T4 system .  I have seen an influx off players actually getting premium and unlocking all their vehicles now that they see that BR 9.9 has a use. I've had T5 vehicles unlocked years ago. I'm a premium player for years and you can research a T5 vehicle in 1 week .  You should consider disbanding derts and join Another squadron with better quality players that actually don't treat this as a free to grind game. If everyone treats it as a regular game and put around a typical £50 game would cost ,equivalent  towards premium then they would unlock everything in weeks.  You remember I was the first person you squaded with and helped you change your privacy settings from private to open , so you could receive invite to sqaud.  It's unfortunate you left my sqaud and I never could figure out why you left , considering at the time we did SRB you said you were more an arcade player and wanted to grind all your British tanks before doing SRB again with your teammates. Guys told me you left as you didn't get invites to SRB. But I told officers to leave you to grind your British tanks like you asked at the time.   

[DeKrieg 1,290]

4 hours ago, OldDeadMan said:

My squadron did probably 20 battles on Saturday... but we also only consistently manage to play that one day. We're still not top 100. We were 154 on Saturday. This morning, we're 177. There must be more than 118 teams active. 

 

Usual issue of people not being clear if its arcade or realistic they are talking about

 

currently 258 clans have played squadron battles in realistic (and won at least 1 game)

138 clans have played squadron battles in arcade (and won at least 1 game)

 

I dont think you'll see how the changes affect sqb until 7.0 - 9.0 range.

 

If anything starting at 6.0 may mask how much the change affects sqb as it may show overall more clans playing in a season but it wont show that a large chunk of them will stop halfway through the season.

 

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

17 hours ago, DeKrieg said:

I dont think you'll see how the changes affect sqb until 7.0 - 9.0 range.

 

If anything starting at 6.0 may mask how much the change affects sqb as it may show overall more clans playing in a season but it wont show that a large chunk of them will stop halfway through the season.

 

 

Now this I agree with. I think we'll be able to participate through 8.0. 9.0... well, I still don't have the MBT or KPz, so it'll be a tossup whether we can field a team there. 

[DeKrieg 1,290]

16 minutes ago, OldDeadMan said:

 

Now this I agree with. I think we'll be able to participate through 8.0. 9.0... well, I still don't have the MBT or KPz, so it'll be a tossup whether we can field a team there. 

 

 

My expectation is that 7.0 will put a lot of people off squibs because it wont be what they are expecting.

 

At the moment everyone is thinking 7.0 is going to be like prior squadron battles but now with a few new tanks. The reality I think is going to very different. I expect after the first week it will become apparent that unless you are running early tier 5 tanks (object 906, T32, Tiger 105, centurian mk10) and R2Y2s you will not be able to compete and then it'll dawn on everyone that this rotation Gaijin is running actually cuts Tier 4 out of squadron battles for the most part.

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

The tanks you listed are no more challenging to destroy than many of the rank IVs. T32 is basically a T29 and a T34. Tiger 10.5 is a little stouter than the Tiger II. Object 906 is easy to kill. The introduction of jet bombers and jets in general will be the big change. 

[DeKrieg 1,290]

4 hours ago, OldDeadMan said:

The tanks you listed are no more challenging to destroy than many of the rank IVs. T32 is basically a T29 and a T34. Tiger 10.5 is a little stouter than the Tiger II. Object 906 is easy to kill. The introduction of jet bombers and jets in general will be the big change. 

 

Yeah the jet bombers (*cough* r2y2) will be the biggest change, but I dont think as much about how hard or easy it is to kill a tank to consider it a problem or not. But how much more effective a tank will be in a number of roles and to me the fact that the cent mark 10 will be rolling with  the same gun as the leopard without having to worry about any of the trolly Russian armour we get after 7.0 (so no need to worry about the lack of heat fs) will make it a damn good tank in a defensive role. And the object 906 is basically the ru 251 with a much better ammo choice for its gun (heat fs like the RU if dealing with something head on, but its those nuke shells with much better velocity then hesh and good enough pen for anything at 7.0 but with a much much better post pen damage that will be the key factor that will make a much better choice. That will make the object 906 a much better tank for the role the RU filled in previous sqb. Those are the two tanks I'm expecting the most trouble from. Of course both can be dealt with easily from the air even with the cannons on the R2Y2. But as we both agree the sky above 7.0 is probably going to be a bit nuts with r2y2s all over the place. So I expect the cent 10 and object 906 to take the most advantage of that

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

I'm just thankful my role is ground command, not air. All my problems can be dealt with. 

[RisingDead 61]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:18 PM, OldDeadMan said:

I'm just thankful my role is ground command, not air. All my problems can be dealt with. 

*And enters your air commander*  

 

So far it's too early in the test, we've only just got past 6.0 BR and 7.0 will be starting this weekend. I can see early jets being a big turn off but you have to realise that other than the Horten all the rest will be BnZ tactics which means late prop aircraft like the Spit Mk24 can still have a place as they have the manoeuvrability to avoid the Mig 9s and the F84s rushing in, jets are also easier to hit by ground AA (obviously the Kugel is going to be first choice for every team) as they have to line up for a ground run earlier than that of a Spit or an F8F. The main jets I can see being taken is the R2Y2's, the american F84, the Mig 9/L and the Horten 229. Out of these the Mig 9/L will be air superiority only as they'll struggle to damage anything on the ground with the week ammo for its 37mm. The Horten will be mainly for ground support and the R2Y2 and F84 will be both. But looking at this list, I've seen all of these fall prey to prop planes by either being out turned, out climbed in some cases, or losing control in a dive and crashing. IMO 7.0 is going to be much better on the ground as it will phase out the dreaded IS6 and bring in a wider range of vehicles. I'm not sure about what you guys ran but ignoring the obvious rank 4 premiums we only used to choose from 6-7 normal tanks, now we have access to Tiger 10.5, Jagdtiger, Centurion Mk10 and Vickers MBT with the awesome 105mm and sabot, the M46 and T32, Object 906 for some aqua play and the Type60 ATM, now I'm pretty sure an RU251, Tiger 2H, T29 or a Caernavon can all kill these vehicles with ease from the front (unless you meet a hull down T32 then just walk out the front door and enter through the back door). The whole point of Squadron Battles wasn't just to provide a competition with a specific set of vehicles but to engage a next level of teamwork and strategy that you don't usually find in normal Realistic Battles and certainly not in normal Arcade Battles. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by RisingDead

[DeKrieg 1,290]

So F84 gets an airspawn (or hovering over airfield spawn) so there seems to be only 3 jet choices, arado C3, R2Y2 and F84.

 

F84 got popular quickly, but teams running some R2Y2s get to laugh all the way to the bank on some maps, that 800kg bomb can do some serious damage.

 

Kugal has made itself well known being back in RB. Scared the crap out of me a few times. Saw some teams forgoing air completely and running double kugal and its honestly good enough to work regardless of the size of the enemy air force.

 

The hilarious thing is I dont think the R2Y2 will be spammed for one simple reason.

 

You cant make a profit off it in squibs. If you get shot down the cost of repair is higher then the amount you can possibly earn in most games.

 

Even if you win you'll still lose money. It'll be funny if it wasnt such a gaijin thing.

 

 

Tanks still seem a bit fluid for first day, Saw a lot of T32's initially but that went quiet after the initial 2-3 hours falling back on reliable panther 2, t44-100 and tiger 2s  with Ru251 support. The few games were we had an object 906 in a game it was very firmly felt, that tank on a flank is a monster, easily better then the RU because of its APHE shell making most kills one shot only.  But I can only recall 2-3 games with the object 906 so it's not being spammed or anything.

 

Will have to wait til the weekend to see what cements as the 7.0 meta.

Edited November 15, 2017 by DeKrieg

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

Tanks on the ground felt pretty normal, with no real surprises. Plenty of T-44-100s, Panther IIs, Tiger IIs, and M46s. Not a lot of SPAA, in fact I think we only ran into one. 

 

Things in the air were very mixed. Some R2Y2s, F84s and the like, a few Mig 9s, but plenty of Spit 24s and F8Fs. The biggest surprise was the Ho229s, which I don't think were ever used effectively. 

[DeKrieg 1,290]

9 hours ago, OldDeadMan said:

Tanks on the ground felt pretty normal, with no real surprises. Plenty of T-44-100s, Panther IIs, Tiger IIs, and M46s. Not a lot of SPAA, in fact I think we only ran into one. 

 

Things in the air were very mixed. Some R2Y2s, F84s and the like, a few Mig 9s, but plenty of Spit 24s and F8Fs. The biggest surprise was the Ho229s, which I don't think were ever used effectively. 

 

 

Yeah the first 2 days have been quite a few squadrons playing it safe. But towards the end of yesterday I did see a pick up on the object 906 and vickers mbt being used. The T32 has been a constant through out most of our matches and on the replays I've picked at random to watch.

 

Unlike you I have run into the kugal a few times. The one game we played against TYT they had foregone air completely on karelia and actually held off our air force with a single excellent kugal player. But we've seen them in a few other games. 

 

Air is a mess. I think more so then tanks there is genuine feeling that a lot of squib pilots have not spaded planes outside of what they use in squibs or perhaps not even researched them and are forced to stick to props. I am ringing a death bell for props somewhat though.

 

They might have still been able to compete if the f84 and r2y2 didnt get airspawns but with the airspawns both have made easy work of every team we've crossed that has run props. I think there was only one game where we didnt outright win the air against props and that was a game where that spit pilot ended up sacrificing himself in a head on. Every other game the F84s have made short work of props. Jets is a different matter, I still think the pecking order is R2y2, F84, Arado C3. But jets like the attacker and mig9 at least can fill a role chasing down the r2y2 or arado when they are RTB for bombs.

 

Frankly if given the choice between props or spaag at 7.0 I'd pick spaag. 2 kugals will be more effective then the props at 7.0.

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

3 hours ago, DeKrieg said:

 

 

Yeah the first 2 days have been quite a few squadrons playing it safe. But towards the end of yesterday I did see a pick up on the object 906 and vickers mbt being used. The T32 has been a constant through out most of our matches and on the replays I've picked at random to watch.

 

Unlike you I have run into the kugal a few times. The one game we played against TYT they had foregone air completely on karelia and actually held off our air force with a single excellent kugal player. But we've seen them in a few other games. 

 

Air is a mess. I think more so then tanks there is genuine feeling that a lot of squib pilots have not spaded planes outside of what they use in squibs or perhaps not even researched them and are forced to stick to props. I am ringing a death bell for props somewhat though.

 

They might have still been able to compete if the f84 and r2y2 didnt get airspawns but with the airspawns both have made easy work of every team we've crossed that has run props. I think there was only one game where we didnt outright win the air against props and that was a game where that spit pilot ended up sacrificing himself in a head on. Every other game the F84s have made short work of props. Jets is a different matter, I still think the pecking order is R2y2, F84, Arado C3. But jets like the attacker and mig9 at least can fill a role chasing down the r2y2 or arado when they are RTB for bombs.

 

Frankly if given the choice between props or spaag at 7.0 I'd pick spaag. 2 kugals will be more effective then the props at 7.0.

 

Oh, yeah, we did see some T32s, but I was sort of expecting that.  Ru251s were common, too.

 

I'm not quite going to write the prop's epitaph just yet... our own pilots found themselves easily dealing with jet threats using the classic props, but some of that could be just that these pilots haven't flown anything ELSE, and are still trying to get their sea legs.  That said, if you aren't bringing a jet bomber of some breed into the early match, you're leaving opportunities on the table.  Sometimes, those are opportunities that are best LEFT on the table, but you get what I mean.  

[OldDeadMan 1,299]

Update, after more battles, the props aren't cutting it now.