Need tips on how to play the DO 217 N

[Luminoth 918]

So I'm totally at a loss with these. At their BR, they're just too poor climbers to get to bombers whilst avoiding fighters, which have the upper hand on them in any scenario. Turning is abysmal, the N1 has the turrets for defence, but they perform poorly and the N2 has no defensive armaments and the Schrägekannonen are horrible to use.

 

Their control lines also seem to be the first thing to always get ruined and I just can't seem to find a winning scenario in this. Please help.

[Hopit 4,416]

Wish for people who are stupid enough to head on you, you can't really do more than that

Edited November 27, 2017 by Hopit

[DieJagdente 1,400]

29 minutes ago, Luminoth said:

So I'm totally at a loss with these. At their BR, they're just too poor climbers to get to bombers whilst avoiding fighters, which have the upper hand on them in any scenario. Turning is abysmal, the N1 has the turrets for defence, but they perform poorly and the N2 has no defensive armaments and the Schrägekannonen are horrible to use.

 

Their control lines also seem to be the first thing to always get ruined and I just can't seem to find a winning scenario in this. Please help.

The N2 is a heavy fighter..I would say first grind it with ground pounding till engines done. Then you have no choice then hunting bombers or force Headon attacks.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

I actually resorted to "spawn camping", historically called "Fernnachtjagd":

Pretend to be a bomber and go with the flow (accept headons on the way to the enemy). While you climb, some of your team dives, so that works nicely.

If you make it to bombing altitude over enemy bases, throw those 50 kg firecrackers on the bases and repairing planes, dive on anyone who dares to climb to you and your fellow bombers and blast spawning bombers to smithereens.

 

On domination maps: Awesome landers - just start to deploy gear at spawn if you plan on using it.

 

And look for a nice and remote place in your hanger where to put them after spading.

 

[The_Lieutenant 886]

Part of the problem with the Do 217 heavy fighters is that they spawn annoyingly low for their rate of climb and intended role. There's nothing you can do about that.

 

Though I'm not exactly a 217 N expert, I do have both of them and have flown them some.

Your main weaknesses are your poor climbing, acceleration, and the fact that Mg 131s do damage equal to half their volume in jell-o.

 

Your main strengths are that you have four machine guns and cannons mounted up front, plus four cannons mounted up top on the N-2.

 

When flying the N-1 try to always keep the enemy in a heading where you can quickly turn to fire at him. Never engage fighters alone, and if they turn hard, don't follow. Make wide passes against your enemy. After a pass, fly straight and level, keeping your speed up, then only start climbing once you're clear of enemy pursuit. When chasing bombers, remember that impotent AI turret gunners are a keypress away from being magic player controlled space lasers. Line up with the bomber's flight path, gain some speed by nosing down below the bomber's level, then turn up and fire a burst ahead of the bomber as you get within 1km distance. Ideally, you want part of your burst to rake across an engine or two.

 

The 217 N-2 lacks any defensive turrets, but the shrage musik cannons can be devastating if you get the opportunity to use them. Pull in behind the bomber at around 2-3km so he can't sneakily snipe your pilot with aforesaid magical space laser technology. Dip below the bomber's line of flight and pick up speed to pull underneath him, throttling back as you get closer. You want to be sitting with your nose flush to his or just behind. Climb gently to 800-500m distance between you vertically, then open up with the shrage musik cannons. This is easier said than done, but when its done, its devastating, you'll be sitting almost perfectly in his blind spot, even for his ball turret.

 

Edit: OH GOD THIS IS ARCADE BATTLES IM SO SORRY I'LL SEE MYSELF OUT.

Edited November 27, 2017 by The_Lieutenant

[Tigerspook 315]

I found the roll rate on all the Do-217 heavy fighters to be show-stoppingly awful.  Yet other bombers can yoyo like a fighter.

 

Otherwise I got nothin'.  I spaded mine my booming furballs to pick off pre-occupied pilots.  I distinctly recall being unable to attack bombers like the B-34 because they outmaneuvered me handily.

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

Do what everyone does, dive, get 12 ground kills instantly, get gang banged by enemy team, respawn, repeat.

[PARAMI 478]

2 hours ago, TovarischSnoopy said:

Do what everyone does, dive, get 12 ground kills instantly, get gang banged by enemy team, respawn, repeat.

We're talking about the attacker variant. The bomber variant is the easiest thing to rack up good rewards in. 

 

I really think that the 217 Ns are heavily overtiered--I really don't think they belong anywhere above the 3.0 range. Hell, I probably wouldn't fly them if they were 2.3. No real bombs, a horrible fighter FM, wonky guns--there's nothing going for this thing. 

[Luminoth 918]

11 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

I actually resorted to "spawn camping", historically called "Fernnachtjagd":

Pretend to be a bomber and go with the flow (accept headons on the way to the enemy). While you climb, some of your team dives, so that works nicely.

If you make it to bombing altitude over enemy bases, throw those 50 kg firecrackers on the bases and repairing planes, dive on anyone who dares to climb to you and your fellow bombers and blast spawning bombers to smithereens.

 

On domination maps: Awesome landers - just start to deploy gear at spawn if you plan on using it.

 

And look for a nice and remote place in your hanger where to put them after spading.

 

 

The n2 version has no bombs and I must be unlucky because people I face are always competent to avoid the head-on in fighters and then theyget me. It's a poor diver and maneuvrability is rubbish so if the head-on doesn't work it's a death sentence... Could it just be its BR is too high? 

 

Ps: thanks for all the tips 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Luminoth

[tx141 815]

To the OP:

 

If you're willing to wait until the start of the new year, I'll be sure to look into the plane for you and give you my thoughts on how to make it work.

 

I apologise for not responding to this thread sooner; been backed up with working on French fighter reviews leading into Christmas.

 

In the meantime; this antiquated but still relevant review of the Do 217 J-1 may start pointing you in the right direction:

 

Do 217 J-1 - The Tacit Turtle

I hope that helps 

[Kat0n 141]

From my own experience, I'm not a good player but have played them a lot, climb a bit, dive on lower fighters toward your troops and repeat. Head-on what can be head-on'd.

[Tigerspook 315]

I decided to try the Do-217 N-1 and N-2 and to my surprise, I have never flown them out.  Evidently, after spading the J models, I had had more than enough.

 

Anyway, I flew out the N-1 twice and got butchered. 

 

EDIT - I have flown the N-1 and N-2 out a few times. Half my losses are due to being rammed by friends and foes alike.  The other half are getting gunned by bombers or the flocks of fighters who are looking for an easy kill. I am in no way able to replicate Paul's success, in any fashion. I think I have 2 air kills for 8 or so losses. Of course both planes are wholly stock, so it isn't a true test of the planes.

 

EDIT 2 - Wow, this isn't getting better, lol.

 

EDIT 3 - It's still rough, but getting better as the planes start getting engine and 20mm mods.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Tigerspook

[Luminoth 918]

6 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

I decided to try the Do-217 N-1 and N-2 and to my surprise, I have never flown them out.  Evidently, after spading the J models, I had had more than enough.

 

Anyway, I flew out the N-1 twice and got butchered. 

 

EDIT - I have flown the N-1 and N-2 out a few times. Half my losses are due to being rammed by friends and foes alike.  The other half are getting gunned by bombers or the flocks of fighters who are looking for an easy kill. I am in no way able to replicate Paul's success, in any fashion. I think I have 2 air kills for 8 or so losses. Of course both planes are wholly stock, so it isn't a true test of the planes.

 

EDIT 2 - Wow, this isn't getting better, lol.

 

EDIT 3 - It's still rough, but getting better as the planes start getting engine and 20mm mods.

 

I believe simply not enough people have played this to affect the stats in order to warrant a drop in br. Also, the planes might be suffering harder than others from stock syndrome. Now with a few upgrades it's starting to going better. And gunning for ground targets makes progression faster.

[TT33a 5,404]

[Tigerspook 315]

8 hours ago, Luminoth said:

 

I believe simply not enough people have played this to affect the stats in order to warrant a drop in br. Also, the planes might be suffering harder than others from stock syndrome. Now with a few upgrades it's starting to going better. And gunning for ground targets makes progression faster.

 

With 4x 20mm, the N-1 and N-2 are unlikely to see much of a BR drop. I was not uptiered much last night. I don't recall fighting anything with a higher BR than 4.3 (a P-51D (-10? -20?)). In fact, the MM was suspiciously nice to me... In general, the N's were being pushed around not by BR 5 planes, but by BR 3 planes. I recall being killed by a J2M2, a Russian P-47D-27, and a LaGG-3-66. If the N's should be measured this way, then they wouldn't be OP at BR 3.3. If they are to be judged by how well they kill bombers... that's a little better, except they have trouble climbing to altitude and catching bombers. I rolled a few airfield doms. In these matches, the Ns did not survive high-speed landings. They handled well very well and were easy to land at speed, but they were easy pickings just the same. And some other normal matches where there simply were no heavy bombers. The N-1 flew around doing nothing at all until I got bored. Then I'd try to nip the furball and get 2 or 3 reds on me for my audacity. When I was more cautious, I had games with under 50% participation. That's worse than being shot down.

 

There were some good spots; a nice dogfight with a B-34 (BR 2.7). How is kept flying I do not know - I hammered it with 20mm and took him on the 3rd pass. I may have had default 20mm at that time. I also had a nice kill on a B-25. I took a Sterling (or a Wellington?) in textbook style, and a P-40 (BR 2.3) with a monster deflection shot. There were a few more kills too, but not many. I recall being unable to kill a few Halifaxes.

 

The crushing moment of the evening was when I caught a FW-200... and I had spawned without ammo. That happens to me about once every 2 weeks. We had a head-on where I hit him with cannons, and then for the next pass, my guns were all empty. I am positive I did not jam all 8 guns with a 2 second burst. I sat there, pretty much on his 6, stunned.  My MGs reloaded, I put him on fire. His tail gunner killed me, and the match ended before he burned up. omg.

 

Anyway, it's fun enough and different enough to fly out.  The thing turns like a beast with flaps, but you can only do it once per dogfight unless you have some altitude. Its abysmal roll rate is the only thing that prevents it from being a useful aircraft. If I can learn how to work around that then it's going to be ok-ish.

 

I only have 20 air-kills for 28 losses, but I am positive this is stock syndrome. More to come, this is entertaining/challenging.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Tigerspook

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

Play Assault. All that firepower should be very handy in that mode.

[Sarin 2,329]

I don't know how I managed to get K/D over 1 with those things....but discretion is the key. You need to wait for your opportunity. And don't underestimate the Schrage Musik. I scored one one my most impressive kills with it. I was getting bounced by a Tiffy, and with no time to turn against him, I just rolled to the side and sent him a blind burst from Schrage Musik...made even more impressive by the fact that at the time, ti was bugged and when switching to Schrage Musik, the camera would remain pointed upward even if plane was rolled to the side.

[Tigerspook 315]

Flying it out tonight, it's freaking awful. I thought it was getting better, I was wrong.  While carefully looking for targets, I'm getting bounced all the time. And I am losing tail controls very frequently. Unlike last night, I am being uptiered quite a lot, and seeing fighters of my own BR. They kill me instantly. There is no defense.

 

Going backwards 

 

Edit 1 - Frustration level... maxed. I am fighting 4.0-4.7 tonight, and I am averaging about 1/2 assist per plane per match.

 

Edit 2 - Now I have 28 kills and 48 deaths. That's +8 and +20 from last night, and last night wasn't particularly good. The difference is that the MM is not taking it easy on me. This evening I got reasonable pairings and the Do 217 N-1 and N-2s are completely non-competitive. I get bored flying for 3 or 4 minutes, trying to gain altitude, hoping some bomber will lumber in front of me.  And these planes are fighter magnets. There is no defense against fighters. They are rekking me in one pass and finishing me in next.

 

I'm done here; this is no fun. Someone else try it and maybe share a hint.

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Tigerspook

[Kat0n 141]

10 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

Flying it out tonight, it's freaking awful. I thought it was getting better, I was wrong.  While carefully looking for targets, I'm getting bounced all the time. And I am losing tail controls very frequently. Unlike last night, I am being uptiered quite a lot, and seeing fighters of my own BR. They kill me instantly. There is no defense.

 

Going backwards 

 

Edit 1 - Frustration level... maxed. I am fighting 4.0-4.7 tonight, and I am averaging about 1/2 assist per plane per match.

 

Edit 2 - Now I have 28 kills and 48 deaths. That's +8 and +20 from last night, and last night wasn't particularly good. The difference is that the MM is not taking it easy on me. This evening I got reasonable pairings and the Do 217 N-1 and N-2s are completely non-competitive. I get bored flying for 3 or 4 minutes, trying to gain altitude, hoping some bomber will lumber in front of me.  And these planes are fighter magnets. There is no defense against fighters. They are rekking me in one pass and finishing me in next.

 

I'm done here; this is no fun. Someone else try it and maybe share a hint.

 

Being outmatched is a big problem and it will ruin the fun for you since fighters are going to confuse you with the bomber variants which is a favorite prey because very weak. Honestly any "classic" techniques that enables to do good stuff won't work here because the plane somehow doesn't fit Arcade. You should either spend half of the match gaining enough altitude to attack bombers (by climbing perpendicularly or diagonally to the front) OR the newbie technique I use and that enabled me to get between 1.3 and 1.7 of KR with them with some matches at 4/1 or 5/1. You only climb a bit and dive on the early fighters and bombers you meet. Then you go toward your base and repeat. Never play it at the beginning of the round, and you probably know it, set your gun convergence at 500m min so you can shred the few guys that will try the head-on before they get a chance to hit you.

 

To be honest the J variants are better since their BR low, so you can outrun some fighters and do some more elaborated techniques. With the N variants you have to rely entirely on enemies being meh. Anyways if your global K/R is 3 or 4 there's no chance these will not make it drop. I've never seen someone doing really well with them.

[Barry100 185]

I had skipped this plane, so now I had to try it out.  It is a slug with no rear gunner!  For me, the angle of the 'strange music' guns is not optimal.

 

I went back and looked at the Ki-45 that has the 'strange music' guns, to confirm, they are at a different angle.

 

So, for those who have figured out how to use the upward guns, I salute you.  Meanwhile, I will be looking for easy ground targets.

[PARAMI 478]

 

[Tigerspook 315]

Regarding the videos above, they are remarkable. I mean, it is remarkable the entire red team did not pounce on and destroy the 217 immediately. That's what happens to me. And I can't get within a kilometer of a bomber without it shooting me to shreds.

 

 

[AmigaForever 97]

RB play this as attacker: flank and wait awhile until most fighters are dog fighting and then attack soft grounds, and pray you manage to destroy 10 of them before you are blown into pieces. That is all you can do for you and your team, and once you developed it, dump it like it is infested...The plane belongs to BR 2.0 and NOT BR.3.0! Gajin should drop this plane and subsequent N-2

PS: Almost no one at  this BR accepts head on: if you meet fighter you are dead (you do not meet bombers because you can't reach high alt on time). And forget going like bomber and  camp their AF: it spawns has  heavy fighter, relatively low, and has slow climb rate. Its only niche is playing as attacker and then dump it.

Oh, its arcade thread, sorry

Edited February 4, 2021 by AmigaForever

[Chomusuke1 1,221]

On 04/02/2021 at 03:45, AmigaForever said:

Gajin should drop this plane and subsequent N-2

They should correct it as well

[anyuser 5,136]

On 04/02/2021 at 09:45, AmigaForever said:

RB play this as attacker: flank and wait awhile until most fighters are dog fighting and then attack soft grounds, and pray you manage to destroy 10 of them before you are blown into pieces. That is all you can do for you and your team, and once you developed it, dump it like it is infested...The plane belongs to BR 2.0 and NOT BR.3.0! Gajin should drop this plane and subsequent N-2

PS: Almost no one at  this BR accepts head on: if you meet fighter you are dead (you do not meet bombers because you can't reach high alt on time). And forget going like bomber and  camp their AF: it spawns has  heavy fighter, relatively low, and has slow climb rate. Its only niche is playing as attacker and then dump it.

Oh, its arcade thread, sorry

Doesn't make this 3 years later... above your post think?