ground vehicles Char D2

[CaID 8,996]

 

i would like to suggest an interresting low tier medium tank, the Char D2

 

 

The Char D2 was a up-armored tank based on the Char D1 who wasn't yet built when the development of the D2 started. the Char D2 was offering an alternative to the Char B2 in case of this tank was to be forbidden by treaty. it was a tank with a limited firepower as char de Combat due to the absence of the 75mm gun of the char B1. the Char D2 was however a lot cheaper and due of that, the tank was produced in a fairly large number and entered in service in the french army in the late 30s.

 

the development of the Char D2 was motivated by the need to create a more moderm version of the Char D1 who was still using some technology from the Renault FT. the Char D2 was the natural development of the D1 with all the modernization of the 30s with a better armor, better desing, better speed. while the Char D1 was based on the Renault NC, the Char D1 just like the Char D2 was considered as a Medium infantry support tank. ultimatly the Char D2 was to be able to be used as a battle tank in case if the Char B1 wasn't produced. while the armor was well improved pretty much everywhere. the Char D2 was not much heavier than the Char D1 due to the welded armor compared to the riveted armor. the first prototype was named the Renault UZ with a ST1 turret. the Renault UZ was tested in 1933 and accepted in production but in august 1933, two new prototype was finished with more promising hull and those hull was finally selected to be produced.

with the retreat of Germany from the League of Nation, France decided to produce a larger number of tanks and to do that, it had to also retired themselve from the league of nation to not be limited in the number of armament they could produced. the orriginal plan was to produce 750 Char D2 from 1935 to 1939. the prodution was finally reduced to 100 in 2 batch. while the turret ST1 and ST3 was tested but the decision was made and the APX1 turret was selected. the first batch of 1935 was equiped with the APX1 turret armed with a short SA-34 47mm cannon. the tank was finally produced in the number of 50 tanks due to trouble from the compagny plagued by general stike, financial trouble.

the D2 model 1935 was reported to be not as good as they though it could be, the tanks was so poor that it was proposed to convert it into flame tank and the units would receive new tank to replace the D2 converted. the conversion project wasn't carried and in 1938, Renault improved the D2 with a more moderm APX-4 turret with a long barrel SA-35 47mm gun, modified idler wheels and sprockets, ball bearings, shorter mudguards, a new Vertex distributor and Vlex starter completed this overhaul. an attach for an AA machine-gun was also installed on the turret to receive the armament if needed. at the same time, the older D2 mod 1935 was modernized with the turret APX-1A which was considered to fix all the problem know. the second batch was produced again at 50 tanks built.

in action, the Char D2 was enlisted into the reserve unites, under the command of the famous Charles DeGaule who was colonel back them, the tanks was put into services in 1937 where it soon show to be unreliable and quickly worm out, the tank was used in the Saar offensive in Germany as reserve unite while been modernized and reinforced by the Model 1938. that tank meet the german in various battle where it was not performing well, 21 tanks was destroyed in combat, 38 was just left in the field after breaking down. a ridiculously small number was still working in the french army when France surrender in 1940, 21 tanks was captured by the German and used for thair part to built pillbox and armored train.

 

 

 

difference between APX 1 and APX 4 turret. The Char D1 was initially using the APX-1 and APX-1a turret (APX-1a was just having improved optice) and the 50 last of the production had the APX-4 turret.

Spoiler

--> APX1 turret:

 

- 40mm armor
- 1,950 kg with the 47mm SA34 gun and 2100 kg with the 47mm SA35 gun
- sight for the 47mm SA34 gun (4x L.671 sight, V reticle, field of view 11.25°) or for the 47mm SA35 gun (4x L.724 sight, V and later + reticle, field of view 11.25°)
- 2x episcopes
- 2x vision slits : forward left (80mm x 3mm) and rear left (80mm x 15mm)

Turret Front: 40mm/0° + gun and CMG mantlet/round covering about 50% of the front surface
Turret Sides: 40mm/22.5°
Turret Rear: 40mm/22.5° (rear hatch is 40mm thick)
Turret Top: 25mm/74° and 90°
Copula: 40mm/25° and 90° (round)


--> APX4 turret:

- 56mm armor
- 2,570 kg
- sight for the 47mm SA35 gun (4x L.762 sight, + reticle, field of view 11.82°)
- 2x PPL RX 160 episcopes (68° horizontal field of view and +3° to -21° = 24° vertical field of view)

Turret Front: 56mm/0° + gun and CMG mantlet/round covering about 50% of the front surface
Turret Sides: 56mm/22.5°
Turret Rear: 56mm/22.5° (rear hatch is 56mm thick)
Turret Top: 30mm/74° and 90°
Copula: 48mm/25° and 90° (round)

--> Cupola of the turret:
- 1x periscopic binocular (4x magnification)
- 1x PPL RX 160 episcope (68° horizontal field of view and +2° to -22° = 24° vertical field of view)
- 1x Estienne slit (114° field of view 120mm x 10mm slit protected by a 24mm thick armored shutter)

 

Specifications
Weight	19.75 metric tons
Length	5.46 m (17 ft 11 in)
Width	2.22 m (7 ft 3 in)
Height	2.66 m (8 ft 9 in)
Crew	3
Armor	40mm in front, side and turret, 20mm in rear, top and bottom
Main armament	47 mm SA 34 gun 47 mm SA 35 gun (later models)
Secondary armament	2× 7.5 mm Machine guns
Engine	Renault 6-cylinder 9.5 liters petrol engine 150 hp
Power/weight	7.6 hp/tonne
Suspension	vertical springs
Operational range	100 km
Speed	23 km/h (14 mph)

 

 

 

source

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2017/06/renault-d2-de-gaulles-workhorse.html

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/Char_Renault_D2.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_D2

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_char_D2_infantry_tank.html

https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/liste-chronologique/de-1930-a-1940?task=view&id=68

http://www.littlewars.se/french1940/d1d2.html

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by CaID

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

[CaID 8,996]

seriously, i would like to offer an alternative to the SA-18, i think the SA-18 is unfit for the game, we just need to hear the complain of the player who tried it. the H-35 and FMC-36 aren't able to kill anyone unless they have a lucky shot on a GAZ 4M. i think we should remove those two tank completely and lower the rating of the H-39 and R-39 at 1.0, put one of those tank as Reserve, add the R-40, the D1 and D2 to fill the gap between the BR 1.0 and 2.0 and the french tree will already offer a better challenge against the other nation.

 

seriously 36mm for a solid shot at 10m, it's cruel, most of the reserve tank can even take the direct it without a scratch. and 7sec for a reload, it's ridiculous. the gun is clearly unfit, the SA-38 is a lot better but still weak for the game, but i think we could live with it.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

+4. i'm for them all. there's  many tanks whose sole effective difference is just the turret, and these D2s all have interesting turrets with distinct strengths and weakness.

[Maurice_Goulois 49]

Totally agree, and R39 slower than H39 doesnt help

[Querulous1 3,276]

Yes, reserves should be less painful to use

[CaID 8,996]

5 hours ago, Maurice_Goulois said:

Totally agree, and R39 slower than H39 doesnt help

slower and less armored, but the gun is still better than the H-35. the both tank armed with the SA-18 are just painful to use. we should just kick them off and put the R-39 in reserve, the R-40 as a tap ressearch and the H-39 as a regular tank of the BR.1.0. there is also the plausibility to add the H-38 as reserve, which was a up-gunned H-35 (the difference between the H-38 and H-39 are the H-39 was built with the later part while the H-38 was a H-35 converted)

i let the chance for someone else to suggest the new reserve and possibly the tank that could be taking place as reserve.

[KaleKonj 693]

D2 model 1 should be at 1.3,and D2 model 2 at 2.0 br (if S.35 gets it's corect armor of 47 mm at the front and 45 mm hull).

[Milocat 4,855]

+4.  I'm in favor of all of these.  The Char D2 has a place in War Thunder for sure.  The D1?  Not so much.  But these tanks saw service and would be fun to use.

[CaID 8,996]

1 hour ago, Milocat said:

+4.  I'm in favor of all of these.  The Char D2 has a place in War Thunder for sure.  The D1?  Not so much.  But these tanks saw service and would be fun to use.

the D1 is still better than the H35 and the FMC 36, it can actually penetrate an enemy tank.

[DeadlyTreadly 171]

The D2 is an awesome little tank

Definitely an early BR support tank, it has nice bouncy plates

[CaID 8,996]

9 hours ago, DeadlyTreadly said:

The D2 is an awesome little tank

Definitely an early BR support tank, it has nice bouncy plates

somewhere right before the S.35

[BrentD15@psn 1,117]

+1 French Medium Tonk.

[Valcour 1,141]

+1 for all of them.  It should be in the regular tree with De Gaulle's tank, "Yorktown"* as a premium/gift vehicle.

 

*DeGaulle also had D2 "Austerlitz" and "Rocroi"

Edited September 10, 2018 by Valcour
Added information.

[TheFuzzieOne 3,355]

+1

 

I am always down to see more early war tanks. A lot of fun to take out and put-put-put around in, even if they are terrible. It's historically notable.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

 

L'Ecole des Chars de Combat. Silhouttes D' Engnis Blindes. Ministere De La Defense Nationale Et De La Guerre. Aout 1937. 05201

 

 

[Kasukaru 2,164]

The D2 should be slightly better than the H35, so I could see them in game (I know that's a low bar, with the H35 being probably the worst tank in WarThunder). 

[onemax9000 1,243]

+1  

[PrussianOwl 442]

D1 and D2 are overdue imo. +1

[Jarms 1,558]

On 07/02/2019 at 23:04, Kasukaru said:

The D2 should be slightly better than the H35, so I could see them in game (I know that's a low bar, with the H35 being probably the worst tank in WarThunder). 

 

The H35 would be a lot better if the SA34 got its APDS ammo. Alternatively swapping the SA34 out for the SA38 would have also improved its effectiveness. Either of these changes would be historical.

 

Moving back to the Char D2 I would really love to see it in-game. Both the early and late variants.

[player62514 607]

suPPORT!

[BrentD15@psn 1,117]

We could really use this as an actual 1.3 medium/heavy tank.

[CaID 8,996]

On 18/05/2019 at 19:09, *BrentD15 said:

We could really use this as an actual 1.3 medium/heavy tank.

for me, the French tree could be redefined completly with new arragement of the line. so the D1 and D2 could fit better in the tree. along with other tanks.

(i feel like the addition of more armored car are slowed down by this reason amounts of other. they do not fit much well in some tree, like "where shall the Ba-10 and Ba-11 should go in the Russian tree? the Daimler AC mk II was initially put in the AA line after all. it make not much sense. it could make more sense if a line was added for recon and armored car in some tree like the russian, french, german, british, american and italian. but it required to move some vehicles around.)

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

the D1 as a first medium tank. it have a fairly good Armour even if it's a bit slow and the good is a bit weak, there was 10 pre-series tank with the naval ancestor of the Sa-34 gun, it shalln't be worse than the serial tank as the main problem was the design of the turret and particularly the copula. them come the D2. the mod 1935 for start with the Sa-34 gun. the Mod 1938 with the APX-1 turret and the Sa-35 and i found out there was also the mod 1938 with the APX-4 turret built for Poland but ultimately seized for the french army as the war was imminent (i read it in truck-N-Tank magazine hors series No.4 or 5, the one that was dedicated for the french material of 1940). the SA-35 gun shall be useful.

 

then i would say the M4 Sherman take up the line with the M4a1, the M4a4 revitalize with the Sa-50 and also the one with the 105mm gun which was indeed a french concept for modernizing the tanks until more modern and local design was produced. followed by lorraine 40T and the AMX-30 series.

 

the S-35 is a cavalry tank, moving it in the cavalry line should make sense. setting the H-35 (sa-38) and H-39 as first of the cavalry line then go with the AMC-34 and AMC 35 in the between. then go for the AMX-13 series up to the hot armed AMX-13 without excluding the 105mm armed one.

 

the R-39 should see the R-40 as tabbed research and the Char B1 in rank 1 and B1 bis and ARL-44 ACL 1 in rank 2 the ARL-44 in rank 3 in the heavy line as the tank was indeed a heavy tank. the M4A3E2 is a tank i love but france used only 2 gived by USA just before the landing in Normandy. might be this tank with his quality of copy-past and little number shall be better as premium of gift. if we want to play the jumbo, we should play USA or have a little access to it somewhere else (like the T-V in the russian tree). so what else for the rank 3? i the ERB series have 1 or 2 model for adding there.

 

a 6th line? why not considering a 6th line to have a proper line for the alternative vehicles like the scout tanks and armored car for the nation that have real fighting wheeled vehicles to offer. many have actually. German, Uk, France, Russia, Italy. a line just for that. the french could have the ERB series in the center of the line wich are more or less like the AMX-13 but with wheels, then they have the AML-90 and Panhard and many other wheeled tank used as colonial tank, tank hunter and recon vehicles with capacity of offering fire support. the Panhard AMD 178 are good start for this line. the few AMR with the anti-tank capacity too.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by CaID

[Xenecrite 899]

Char D2 (APX-1 Turret):

Spoiler

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Char D2 (APX-4 Turret):

Spoiler

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[CaID 8,996]

On 04/08/2019 at 02:48, Xenecrite said:

Char D2 (APX-1 Turret):

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

Char D2 (APX-4 Turret):

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i also have this magazine in hand. i was hoping you may have actual photo of the Char D2 with the 2 different turret like you had done with the Char B1. the details are a bit hard to spot in real. the both turret was often very similar and to add to the difficulty, they sometime put the different periscope in place of the other as replacement during the maintenance.