ground vehicles Jagdpanzer SK-105 Kürassier (initial production variant)

[Alphanoodle 526]

Spoiler

This has been suggested before here but this suggestion was for the A1 or A2 version of the Kürassier which is equipped with a different gun, engine and several other minor things. The author didn't specify which version he was suggesting but it has to be the A1 or A2 since the initial production variant, which I'm suggesting, cannot fire the APDS-FS round and as already said, has a different engine, transmission etc.

 

Today I’d like to suggest the first production variant of the SK-105 Kürassier, an Austrian light tank destroyer with a 105mm rifled cannon in an oscillating turret.

 

Images:

I tried to only include Austrian models, not export versions

Spoiler

Most images show slightly upgraded Kürassiers with rangefinders and so forth but i had to include them because there are very few images of the initial, unupgraded production variant since all Austrian Kürassiers were upgraded to A1 standard.

 

History:

Spoiler

In the 1950s, the Austrian Army was equipped largely with US-supplied tanks such as the M47 Patton, but also some British Charioteers. These tanks however were slowly becoming obsolete in the following years and the Austrian Army also wanted to have their own tank hunting vehicle. So Österreichische Saurerwerke was contracted to develop such a vehicle.

 

The goal was to create a light tank destroyer, capable of effectively destroying the most modern tanks at the time. This of course raised one major problem though, how to you put a powerful AT-gun on a light and mobile chassis? The Austrian engineers turned to nearby France, where the AMX-13 with an oscillating turret was already in production. The oscillating turret concept allowed larger caliber guns to be mounted in lightweight turrets. They adapted the concept and in 1967 the first prototype of the Kürassier was finished and tested extensively.

 

After some more prototypes and minor improvements, the first version of the Kürassier was put into production with the name Jagdpanzer SK-105 Kürassier in the year 1971. In 1972 the Kürassier was accepted into service within the Austrian Army with an order of 234 vehicles, though around ~600 vehicles in total were produced and exported to several other countries.

 

Between 1978 and 79 the Kürassiers within the Austrian Army were upgraded to A1 standard. The A1 standard included an improved fire control system, improved auto-loader, as well as some small modifications to the gun, allowing it to fire extremely powerful APDS-FS munition. This shell allowed the Kürassier to remain a potent thread on the battlefield, even against modern MBTs of the time to a certain degree.

 

In 1980 they developed the A2 version, which featured a number of improvements like for example a fully stabilized gun and a fully automatic autoloader etc. This version was also the main export version and continues to see service within several armies around the world.

 

As of now, all Kürassiers within the Austrian Army have been either scraped, given to museums or sold to other countries. The Austrian Army does not use the Kürassier anymore, but all the countries it was exported to still use it.

 

Specifications:

Armament:

Main armament: 105mm M-57 Typ D 1504 L/44 rifled autoloading cannon feeding from 2 revolver magazines, each holding 6 rounds (a license-built version of the CN-105-57 gun used on the AMX-30)

Ammunition storage: 44 – 43 rounds total – 12 rounds ready to fire – 5 rounds stored in the turret basket – 26 rounds next to the driver – 1 round behind the breech (optional)

Rate of fire: 12 rounds per minute – 5 sec reload between each shot – after the 12 rounds are spent, the gunner has to get out of the tank and manually reload both revolver magazines by hand - ~50sec reload ingame.

Gun elevation/depression: +12° / -8°

Traverse: 360°

Stabilization: none

Rangefinder: none

After each shot the empty shell-case is ejected out of the turret back

 

Ammunition:

As already said, this gun is a licence built version of the gun used on the AMX-30 and it essentially fires the same ammunition, only the shell case and propellant charge are different which leads to different muzzle velocities and sometimes different designations for the shell itself. I edited the ammo stats of the AMX-30’s shells a bit to comply with the Kürassier’s shell performance:

The A1 version (which was suggested before) could fire OFL-105-G1 APDS-FS ammunition with 500 - 550mm of penetration and the later A2 version the NP-105 sabot with 700mm of pen and a tandem-HEAT warhead with 1000mm of penetration but this version of the Kürassier can only fire the ammo types shown above.

 

Secondary armament:

2x3 70mm smoke dischargers on the turret

Additional 12 smoke grenades can be carried inside the vehicle

Coaxial MG 74 (Austrian modernized version of the MG 42)

RoF: 850 RPM

Ammunition storage: 2000 rounds

Muzzle velocity: 830 m/s

There’s also the option to mount another MG 74 on the turret roof for the commander as AA-MG

 

Propulsion and mobility:

Top speed: 68 – 70 km/h (42-43 mph)

Weight (combat ready): 17.7 – 18 t (39 021 – 39 683 lbs)

Engine: 6FA Turbodiesel engine with 300 HP max at 2500 RPM

Suspension: torsion arms

Power to weight ratio: ~17 HP/t

Can ascend a 70% gradient,

climb 0.8m walls,

cross a 2.4m trench and

ford 1m deep water without preperation

Ground pressure: 0.67 kg/cm²

Ground clearance: 400 mm

Side slope: 40%

 

Armour protection and survivability:

Crew: 3

• Commander
• Gunner
• Driver

The vehicle’s armour consists only out of RHA and CHA, no composite- or explosive-reactive armour

Hull:

• Front: 20mm
• Sides: 14mm
• Rear: 12mm
• Top: 8mm

Turret:

• Front: 40mm
• Sides: 20mm
• Rear: 20mm
• Roof: 10mm

There’s also the option to fit add-on armour onto the front which provides protection against 35mm APDS projectiles at a flank arc of ±20°, though this was rarely done with Austrian Kürassiers and was mainly meant for the export market so I won’t get into more detail.

 

 

Dimensions:

7.76 (5.58 without gun) x2.5×2.52 m

 

Many Kürassiers are on public display in several Austrian museums so getting exact data shouldn't be a problem for Gaijin.

This video shows some Kürassiers firing and the shell-case ejection after each shot at 2:58

 

 

So what do you think about this tank? Leave your thoughts down below and vote on the poll! Sorry for any minor grammar mistakes, my first language is german :3

 

Sources: 

http://www.maquetland.com/article-phototheque/6998-jagdpanzer-sk-105-kuirassier-vienne

http://www.doppeladler.com/oebh/kuerassier.htm

http://www.whq-forum.de/cms/468.0.html

https://army-guide.com/eng/product912.html

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1251.html

http://www.kotsch88.de/m_105mm-m57-2.htm

https://www.armyrecognition.com/austria_austrian_army_main_battle_tank_fr/sk-105_kurassier_light_anti-tank_tracked_armoured_armored_vehicle_austria_austrian_army_technical_d.html

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/Austria/SK-105_Kurassier.php

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/sk-105.htm

http://www.doppeladler.com/oebh/infanterie/mg74.htm

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Alphanoodle

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

[Van_Darkholme69 500]

I can only imagine this going in the French tree, if at all. Does seem like it would be a decent rank 5 premium. +1

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

i'm for it as part of the german tree. +1

since WT kind of combines all eras of the nations ingame, that's enough to lump austria in with germany, as well as Austria being a little bit closer to Germany than France.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

-ignore-

Edited January 7, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[Alphanoodle 526]

 

43 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

@Alphanoodle thank you anyways for your interest in that tank, but it has been suggested back in 2015 and is in Further Discussions already. Still your info's will perfectly add to the old discussion

Read the very first spoiler in the OP

[Kempston 342]

I'd say French Tier 5 Premium, I reckon its a nice idea +1

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

[JPAU401 37]

It's an interesting tank, but I'd only consider it in the French tree. It's an Austrian tank, with French parts. It at least makes sense to possibly include it there.

[LaRenarde 636]

Hello, why in the German tech tree ? that would make no sense ! In French tech tree, why not. In Internationnal tech tree, yeah great. But in german tech tree ... Why not the AMX 40 !

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

On 1/7/2018 at 9:14 AM, Kempston said:

I'd say French Tier 5 Premium, I reckon its a nice idea +1

 

Why would it be French? It was used by Austria, which is more akin to Germany that France. Should be German. 

[Kempston 342]

2 hours ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Why would it be French? It was used by Austria, which is more akin to Germany that France. Should be German. 

Well, it’s more french than anything. I did debate the idea but I feel because it has closer relation to French rather than German engineering

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

1 hour ago, Kempston said:

Well, it’s more french than anything. I did debate the idea but I feel because it has closer relation to French rather than German engineering

 

The Kpz-70 (represented in game anyway) is more American than anything: 

 

American ammunition 

American gun 

American autoloader (since it can autoload ATGMs) 

the only part non American is the engine 

 

And Austria is a German speaking country, borders Germany (doesn’t border France at all), and has it’s history and culture rooted in Germany, not France; so no, it should be German. 

 

And besides, France has plenty of autoloading tanks at high tiers... share the love. 

 

Edit: It’s also referred to as “Jagdpanzer” SK-105, and the word “Kurassier” is a German word meaning (basically) cavalry man (specifically wearing a cuirass). So again, not French, but German. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by xX_Lord_James_Xx

[Kempston 342]

1 hour ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

The Kpz-70 (represented in game anyway) is more American than anything: 

 

American ammunition 

American gun 

American autoloader (since it can autoload ATGMs) 

the only part non American is the engine 

 

And Austria is a German speaking country, borders Germany (doesn’t border France at all), and has it’s history and culture rooted in Germany, not France; so no, it should be German. 

 

And besides, France has plenty of autoloading tanks at high tiers... share the love. 

 

Edit: It’s also referred to as “Jagdpanzer” SK-105, and the word “Kurassier” is a German word meaning (basically) cavalry man (specifically wearing a cuirass). So again, not French, but German. 

 

In contrast the Kurrasier initial production contains a  large amount of french (even if license built) engineering:

 

French Ammunition (Propellant is Austrian okay but changes are minimal)

French Gun (license built but negligible changes to performance)

French Autoloader (Again, license built but negligible changes to performance

 

So it is a license built french turret based upon an Austrian built hull. The reason I thought it should be in the French tech tree is because France shares the closest relation to the vehicle. The only links I can see between the Germans and the Austrians in terms of this vehicle are cultural rather than specific vehicle relations.

I feel the reason this tank should be the french tree is because specific to the vehicle rather than cultural relations the vehicle is derived from French rather than German technology. 

 

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

1 hour ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

also referred to as “Jagdpanzer” SK-105, and the word “Kurassier” is a German word meaning (basically) cavalry man (specifically wearing a cuirass). So again, not French, but German. 

 

It has also been deployed in the Kosovo for almost the entirety of its service life as part if the KFOR peace keeping unit sent out by the UN and NATO to provide security in the Balkans, serving along side mostly German troops.

And War Thunder usually pools together all eras of a nation's geopolitical states into one tech tree ( Nazi Germany+DDR+BRD, etc.) so it just makes overall more sense to put it in the German TT. Maybe as a Tier 5 Premium vehicle, since there is concern with putting it anywhere else in the tree.

[Nope 10,634]

I'd rather see it in an international tech tree tbh.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

oh hey, kinda forgot about this. still like it, still for it for germany only.

 

right now germany could desperately use both a vehicle with mobility, and light tank spotting mechanics. right now all tanks germany could REALLY make use of that fits the new mobility meta are either overtiered (panther 2, begleitpanzer), premium (RU 251, Sla.16, RU 251, oh and did i mention the RU 251?), or rare/far below tier 4 or 5 (Pakwagen).

 

once the AMX-30 HEAT shell is buffed into not-total-uselessness, and provided this is at 6.7 or 7.0 or 7.3 BRs, it'll help with making germany eventually competitive enough just to be playable again above 5.0 and below 9.0.

[Deadmmann 386]

+ add for Germany 

[Mr_Hunter_99 781]

+1

[Zander_Nobuyuki 63]

+1

[Slipslime 660]

+1 would be a good premium for Germany

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

6 hours ago, Slipslime said:

+1 would be a good premium for Germany

 

*shudders* oh god no. the germans have already gotten screwed by the RU-251 paywall. last thing they need is another rare light tank/TD getting locked away from ACTUALLY being able to help the team.

[Anglerfish_Team_ 5]

Austrian here. I'm for adding it to the german tech tree. It would fill out the void that germany will have once the US get their oscillating turrets and the hull was an indigenous design. Indigenous austrian industry of the era was obviously very closely related with the german industry.

[Monguntiacum 74]

Germany (of course) and Premium.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

7 hours ago, Monguntiacum said:

Germany (of course) and Premium.

 

*sigh*

 

someday. someday people will pay attention to the glaring issues a nation has before paywalling a vehicle that goes a long way towards curing that nation's woes.