Stop Nerfing the players who do the objectives

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

9 hours ago, Sarin said:

Guys....posting pictures of planes shot down by heavy flak doesn't prove anything. I might as well post this as evidence to the contrary:

 

Try to be constructive instead of this next time, okay?

 

Have you got a prove this damage occured while fueled and airborn? Planes do get damaged on the ground too. They tend not to crash then. One tire is flat.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Dodo_Dud

[Venatores 309]

This topic sure made me laugh.. an objective player that only dives down to press spacebar is confused as to how other players outclass him in dog fighting. 

Perhaps you should not consider yourself the #whatever in the world. There is more to this game then bombing targets that dont shoot back. 

[_Rustle_ 532]

11 hours ago, eRekt_Squad_Suck said:

Good like your 49% win rate?

 

Dayum. 57%. You must have big strong arms to pull that big boy out. Good work sir.

[Barry100 185]

On 1/9/2018 at 11:48 AM, blastedryan said:

your title is "Cannon fodder"

Well then Gaijin, I want a booth review, this seems to be a title that is not available anymore, or I would have It by now.  

 

If you haven't shot me down, you are not playing War Thunder!

 

On 1/9/2018 at 12:51 PM, Tigerspook said:

Oh damn, I am in the no-man's-land between "not good enough for the game to cheat me" and "not bad enough for the game to cheat for me". Whatever shall I do?

No, you made it, you are good enough for the game to cheat you!

 

As far as the OP, I think you have to roll with the changes to the game.(remember when the BV 238 first came out)

 

I bomb for warbonds/events, and for spading/skinning.

 

 

 

 

 

[MickoBGD 57]

16 hours ago, Coyote_Kisses said:

Simple advice: Learn how to git gud and not blame the games physics for your lack of skill! 

How are you sure with your 1500 games and 50% winrate that there is nothing implemented in game with a goal to reduce winrate of players with high winrate ? You work for gaijin ? That guy made some statements which are probably wrong but I just don't get it why are you sure about something that is not much relevant to you.

 

@Stona

When you tell "We do not nerf or boost players" for which I think is true do you tell that because you have confirmations from devs or similar info? You have access to game engine info and numbers so you know that or particularly in this case some dev confirmed that ?

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

4 hours ago, MickoBGD said:

How are you sure with your 1500 games and 50% winrate that there is nothing implemented in game with a goal to reduce winrate of players with high winrate ? You work for gaijin ? That guy made some statements which are probably wrong but I just don't get it why are you sure about something that is not much relevant to you.

 

@Stona

When you tell "We do not nerf or boost players" for which I think is true do you tell that because you have confirmations from devs or similar info? You have access to game engine info and numbers so you know that or particularly in this case some dev confirmed that ?

 

As expected someone brings up their meaningless win rate YAHOO. If you want to talk about winrate, I who doesn’t even go for ground targets is at 50%, yours is at 67%. Really no difference there so why even mention it without bullets to back up your gun?

1500 games yeah ain’t much, but that’s cause I’ve spent plus 9 days custom duels although being a player for 3 years. Maybe I don’t know, but I don’t think play for objectives or bomber spam or shoot defenceless, stationary ground targets as that isn’t fun to me, since day 1 I never did and never will. You think winrate means something? All they mean is you ground pound, bomb which both take no brain and seem to be the most boring thing to me, with plus 3 deaths and ussually 1 or 2 air kills. 

Id rather my constant 10+ to 0 death games and enchanting my skill as a pilot, not as a ground pounder for that oh so fantastic winrate. Somehow being top of the leaderboard with 15+ kills still never gives me a win. Odd when the guy who sits at space bombing with no kills and 3 deaths has twice as many points as me. It’s why I couldn’t care less about winrate as it means NOTHING. 

 

PS: what does a guy (you) with a air frags (KDR) to death ratio of 1.3 know? Compared with my kdr of 5.8, what do you know about air kills mmm?

 

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Coyote_Kisses

[Josephs_Piano 7,044]

People play for different reasons - you know that ground pounding gives better points and you chose not to do it?  well that is your choice - nothing wrong with other people choosing to do otherwise.

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

1 minute ago, Josephs_Piano said:

People play for different reasons - you know that ground pounding gives better points and you chose not to do it?  well that is your choice - nothing wrong with other people choosing to do otherwise.

No yes of course I agree. But if someone is going to bring up the ground pound (winrate)  arguement I’m going to bring up mine. I just don’t care about points because it in my opinion means nothing, I play solely to kill the opponent and enchance my skill in air AB against air targets, not ground targets.

[IOC_000 924]

4 hours ago, MickoBGD said:

How are you sure with your 1500 games and 50% winrate that there is nothing implemented in game with a goal to reduce winrate of players with high winrate ? You work for gaijin ? That guy made some statements which are probably wrong but I just don't get it why are you sure about something that is not much relevant to you.

 

@Stona

When you tell "We do not nerf or boost players" for which I think is true do you tell that because you have confirmations from devs or similar info? You have access to game engine info and numbers so you know that or particularly in this case some dev confirmed that ?

All you have are your own observations; which means you will experience Confrimation Bias. Where the observations that line up with your supposed hypothesis will be stronger mentally than ones that dont; iv'e played several hundred air AB games. Everything you are talking about can be explained by issues on your end (Ping,Pl and lack of ACM "Skills") rather than foul play on their end; plus as a company that  wants to make money i never understood complaints like this. Basically you're saying they individually mainpulate players with high stats to pad lower players; yet those players would still get wrecked by mid-range players. This would lead to frustration and disruption of the learning curve; not encourage additional spending. 

[MickoBGD 57]

@Coyote_Kisses

You are missing out my point.... I do not say that winrate means anything in terms of being good... Or if it is nonsense or not... I am talking about GAME ENGINE like itself! Does it work different to adjust winrate, or if there is something implemented in code for low level, high level, low kdr, high kdr players etc etc...

 

Let me give you one example, if someone with KDR 5:1 starts a topic saying "Gaijin made low kdr players kills easier players with high KDR" I would not join the discussion as I am incompetent to talk about that because my kdr is not 5:1 or such.... So why do you join the discussion for things that you are not competent with. Again, how are you sure that there is nothing in code for high winrate players if you are not affected with that?

 

Now a bit about statistics:

Many high kdr players like to praise their high kdr like it means something. There are many high kdr players which are great but many of them are just average players. You blindly compare someone else's kdr with your not including any other factors. There would be THOUSANDS of players with stats like yours if all of them played the game that way.

 

With some of these tips thousands of players would have high KDR:

1. Play only fighter planes

2. Play only OP planes (like 80% of games in 109 g2, 109 f4)

3. Pay to spade planes and ace crews

4. Downtier your planes

 

Some tactics tips:

1. Climb high to gain altitude / speed advantage (you already have better plane that most of enemies)

2. Pick a target down there who is unaware of what is happening around him and bnz him or rope a dope

3. Pick a target if he is already in a fight or infinite turnfight with someone

4. Kill some lonely stupid bombers who blindly go for bases

5. Wait for braindead angry player to put a nose straight up and rope a dope when he stalls

6. Someone accidentally climbed up and has same energy/altitude like you - DO not go head on and do not engage. Just run away or if you play in squadron attack 2 vs 1 and kill it

7. If your team lost air advantage don't cry. Just pull back to around your airfield and wait for suicide bombers or such who dropped bombs and went into your airspace, you will still make couple of kills that way.

 

 

and YAHOO, you have KD of 7:1 and will have 5-6 kills per game for sure and you are PRO fighter and can show your stats on forum and tell "git gud" to spacebar bots! Yes, it requires a lot of skill to bnz braindead players with 109 G-2 in their 4.0 stock planes...

 

So, what is a difference in suicide bomb a tank or bnz some idiot who is not changing direction at all with your G-2 ?

 

See, I do not say that all the spawncampers are bad. Many are great players besides this techniques but many are just average exploiting system as much as they can. Thousands of players who do not bother to go high but play turnfight in mess could have high stats. They just play the way they like. I saw many good spawncampers like chillywilly, padddan, kraken etc etc and I show respect to them. Even with OP planes taking all the advantages they can they still are not afraid to run into 2 enemies, go head on and risk... But there are not many of that kind of players in game, most are just stats chasers with average skills like most suicide bombers or furball players

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

2 minutes ago, MickoBGD said:

@Coyote_Kisses

You are missing out my point.... I do not say that winrate means anything in terms of being good... Or if it is nonsense or not... I am talking about GAME ENGINE like itself! Does it work different to adjust winrate, or if there is something implemented in code for low level, high level, low kdr, high kdr players etc etc...

 

Let me give you one example, if someone with KDR 5:1 starts a topic saying "Gaijin made low kdr players kills easier players with high KDR" I would not join the discussion as I am incompetent to talk about that because my kdr is not 5:1 or such.... So why do you join the discussion for things that you are not competent with. Again, how are you sure that there is nothing in code for high winrate players if you are not affected with that?

 

Now a bit about statistics:

Many high kdr players like to praise their high kdr like it means something. There are many high kdr players which are great but many of them are just average players. You blindly compare someone else's kdr with your not including any other factors. There would be THOUSANDS of players with stats like yours if all of them played the game that way.

 

With some of these tips thousands of players would have high KDR:

1. Play only fighter planes

2. Play only OP planes (like 80% of games in 109 g2, 109 f4)

3. Pay to spade planes and ace crews

4. Downtier your planes

 

Some tactics tips:

1. Climb high to gain altitude / speed advantage (you already have better plane that most of enemies)

2. Pick a target down there who is unaware of what is happening around him and bnz him or rope a dope

3. Pick a target if he is already in a fight or infinite turnfight with someone

4. Kill some lonely stupid bombers who blindly go for bases

5. Wait for braindead angry player to put a nose straight up and rope a dope when he stalls

6. Someone accidentally climbed up and has same energy/altitude like you - DO not go head on and do not engage. Just run away or if you play in squadron attack 2 vs 1 and kill it

7. If your team lost air advantage don't cry. Just pull back to around your airfield and wait for suicide bombers or such who dropped bombs and went into your airspace, you will still make couple of kills that way.

 

 

and YAHOO, you have KD of 7:1 and will have 5-6 kills per game for sure and you are PRO fighter and can show your stats on forum and tell "git gud" to spacebar bots! Yes, it requires a lot of skill to bnz braindead players with 109 G-2 in their 4.0 stock planes...

 

So, what is a difference in suicide bomb a tank or bnz some idiot who is not changing direction at all with your G-2 ?

 

See, I do not say that all the spawncampers are bad. Many are great players besides this techniques but many are just average exploiting system as much as they can. Thousands of players who do not bother to go high but play turnfight in mess could have high stats. They just play the way they like. I saw many good spawncampers like chillywilly, padddan, kraken etc etc and I show respect to them. Even with OP planes taking all the advantages they can they still are not afraid to run into 2 enemies, go head on and risk... But there are not many of that kind of players in game, most are just stats chasers with average skills like most suicide bombers or furball players

Alright so besides the saying KDR stuff is meaningless or winrate is meaningless I’m going to just say everyone plays how they like and I take kdr as the highest indication of fighter skill. 

 

All those guys guys I play with, and know. Ask any of them and they would tell me I am just as skilled as them and play just like them. Recorded a 2v7 below the enemy spawn, where they kept spawning in after I killed them. I got around 9 kills before I was shot down in a consistent 2v5+. With the same energy state, on the ground at 500m. If you would like to see me in game go ahead and I will show you recordings of 3x head ons or 3v1s etc. I am not a space climber, that is boring. 

 

Also well no one would have no idea about the conspiracy’s unless we ask gaijjn which I’m surely isn’t true. 

[MickoBGD 57]

@IOC_000

I agree with you. 99% of things can explain like you mentioned but you do not count that there may be bugs in game, that there may be some hidden algorithms in game engine not showed to public. It is not "conspiracy" like many say because conspiracy definition is when you want to make something ILLEGAL or HARMFUL to someone. For me, allowing low level players IS GOOD THING if it exists because it would not be nice if I take 2.3 lineup and make 15-20 kills every game.

 

So how anyway bugs and such things are revealed or found? By players complaining about something strange. Someone may complain that his italian pilot is dying too often. It may be normal but it may be that there really is a bug. Don't tell "git gud" or "conspiracy theory" to anyone complaining about something.

 

I agree that 99% of complains have proper explanation but still at least try to be constructive in discussion and "git gud" is not constructive, especially not when told by mediocre players who think they are good. 

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

5 minutes ago, MickoBGD said:

@IOC_000

I agree with you. 99% of things can explain like you mentioned but you do not count that there may be bugs in game, that there may be some hidden algorithms in game engine not showed to public. It is not "conspiracy" like many say because conspiracy definition is when you want to make something ILLEGAL or HARMFUL to someone. For me, allowing low level players IS GOOD THING if it exists because it would not be nice if I take 2.3 lineup and make 15-20 kills every game.

 

So how anyway bugs and such things are revealed or found? By players complaining about something strange. Someone may complain that his italian pilot is dying too often. It may be normal but it may be that there really is a bug. Don't tell "git gud" or "conspiracy theory" to anyone complaining about something.

 

I agree that 99% of complains have proper explanation but still at least try to be constructive in discussion and "git gud" is not constructive, especially not when told by mediocre players who think they are good. 

I agree with most of those points. Except the “told by mediocre players who think they are good” I have physical proof and statistical proof that I am a highly advanced player (air to air combat ONLY) in RB and AB. As I previously said.

[MickoBGD 57]

7 minutes ago, Coyote_Kisses said:

 I take kdr as the highest indication of fighter skill.

KDR is the highest indication of fighter skill, that is true. But when someone talks about KDR should be honest that KDR could be "faked" like I mentioned. KDR against braindead people is not proof of skill. KDR in G-2 against HE-111 is not a proof of skill etc...

[Light_Flight 269]

If you want to improve your KDR, pop an underrated fighter at the top of your line-up. Try it with a P-47 rated BR2.7 and your score will improve stratospherically! And if you see that you have been up-tiered in a match, just leave it!

Edited January 11, 2018 by Light_Flight

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

17 minutes ago, MickoBGD said:

KDR is the highest indication of fighter skill, that is true. But when someone talks about KDR should be honest that KDR could be "faked" like I mentioned. KDR against braindead people is not proof of skill. KDR in G-2 against HE-111 is not a proof of skill etc...

But a game has variation with aircraft, part of the game to have different aircraft against whoever. I am happy to show in a 1v1 or anything my fighter skill. You have to realise you can’t just ignore someone’s stats completely or just think they are bad because of whatever reason. You have to realise and admit when you see a skilled player without making excuses about them or why kdr doesn’t need matter etc

 

5 minutes ago, Light_Flight said:

If you want to improve your KDR, pop an underrated fighter at the top of your line-up. Try it with a P-47 rated BR2.7 and your score will improve stratospherically! And if you see that you have been up-tiered in a match, just leave it!

You know leaving a match results in a death in every aircraft in your line up right? What are you getting at?

[MickoBGD 57]

@Coyote_Kisses

You are good player. Just what I think is you should show some respect as there may be better players than you with worse stats because they just dont care about stats and dont care if they will die or not...There are a lot of different playstyles that are not comparable.

 

For example I think that noone in this game has more skins / achievements of any type than me... I like to do that because it is some kind of goal. How do you think chasing skins affected my stats. Someone "smart" in gaijin made skin for Pe-2-359 to bomb bases. You know that it needs like 7-8 runs over a single small base to destroy it with 2x500kg bombs. So you need to spend 30-40 games in that Pe-2 to get a skin. Or how it affects your stats when you try to spade Ki-109 for which is a great result if you killed 2 ground AAA in a game as in most games you will do 0 points.

 

So yes, KDR means skill but you must realize that downthere in a mess there are a LOT of great players with SKILLS. Players with no skill will make 0-1 kills and die, players will skill will make 4-5 kills and die. And you disrespect them.

 

Few days ago I played against guy named something like SlavicHammer or similar. He made like 23-25 kills in 2 games in a row that we played and played against me. But he died 4-5 per game. So his kdr was 5:1 which is not so epic but I would like to see how many players can make 25 kills in 2 games in a row. He for sure must have a skill. He was diving down i a red cloud, and killing like insane 5-6 planes in couple of seconds. In second game I decided to chase him and killed each other 3 times head on. I imagine he could have couple of more kills if I didn't intent to just "ruin" his game.

[MickoBGD 57]

22 minutes ago, Coyote_Kisses said:

You have to realise you can’t just ignore someone’s stats completely or just think they are bad because of whatever reason. You have to realise and admit when you see a skilled player without making excuses about them or why kdr doesn’t need matter etc

Yes, and I do not ignore KDR stats. I confirm that high KDR means good player but can be "faked" to be improved not regular way. Still it means someone HAS SKILL. But you do not like when someone ignores your KDR stats but same time YOU IGNORE someone else stats. There is different playstyle and it is not only SUICIDE BOMBING. Playing low altitude require some other skills but skills of other types. Situation awareness is one skill or talent or whatever. You need to have it if you are down there a lot more than if you climb high. 

 

I have 4.1 air kills per game and 4.1 ground kills per game and 68% winrate. So it looks "average"... But try to find how many players have higher stats than that. You think it is easy to have such stats with suicide bombing ? Try that!

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

@MickoBGD

 

Yes I understand your view point. That is good determination in that massive grind for achievements and skins which is quite interesting to know and a unique thing for you on your own to have that persistence. I guess it depends the kind of player and what they want to achieve. I am solely for highest number of kills without dying and mastering 1v1s which in result help me when I’m stuck in a 3v1 which I ussually can be successful in killing all 3 if I have one luck on my side and my tactics and plan play out how I wanted. 

 

 

Thats at a great score and a lot of eRekt can do that, except we prefer 15-0 than 25-5. But both are different play styles, one is more aggressive but means you will die more but rewards you with more kills while the other Is the opposite. 

 

Also well in the furball I never see any players seen to rudder turn when I somehow end up there, and they all seem a bit mindless and just point and shoot. Why I don’t find the furballs fun as same if your up high, most players are mindless everywhere. 

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

@MickoBGD

 

You need just as good situational awareness. We aren’t space climbers, we can altitude supremacy. Really you need more because you’ll have multiple high alt players wanting to come for you, remember a third of the players are still high alt. It always results in constant 1v1s high alt or 2v1s before I get the chance to actually get to the enemy spawn. It’s more of a challenge than sitting on the ground and hoping you kill someone out of a furball because honestly furballs are hardly skill and more luck and are just a bit mindless really.

[MickoBGD 57]

2 minutes ago, Coyote_Kisses said:

because honestly furballs are hardly skill and more luck and are just a bit mindless really.

so if someone is constantly making 4:1 KD in furball comparing to someone who is making 2:1 in furball or 1:1 in furball and they all play same style your point is that first guy is twice or 4 times more lucky ?

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

4 minutes ago, MickoBGD said:

so if someone is constantly making 4:1 KD in furball comparing to someone who is making 2:1 in furball or 1:1 in furball and they all play same style your point is that first guy is twice or 4 times more lucky ?

No of course skill is required sorry. Just that I don’t really see anyone who is in the actually furbal with 8 plus enemies get more than 4-5 without dying. It’s more about it lacking something, where idk shooting a few enemies down in some spammy engagements with multiple guys around you just doesn’t seem to give you enough time to analyse what your actually going to do and how to succeed properly? Hard to explain. Of course it takes skill, but just I would think hanging right in the furball is eventual suicide and I would prefer more proper engagements in 1v1s etc

[Coyote_Kisses 6]

Just everyone has a different play style, mine being 1v1s and analytical turnfights primarily. With also handling multiple enemies and mastering head on snipes, stall spirals etc. Others may be hanging in the furball and smashing out a few kills before spawning back in for some more, all just personal preference. 

[MickoBGD 57]

Just now, Coyote_Kisses said:

No of course skill is required sorry. Just that I don’t really see anyone who is in the actually furbal with 8 plus enemies get more than 4-5 without dying. It’s more about it lacking something, where idk shooting a few enemies down in some spammy engagements with multiple guys around you just doesn’t seem to give you enough time to analyse what your actually going to do and how to succeed properly? Hard to explain. Of course it takes skill, but just I would think hanging right in the furball is eventual suicide and I would prefer more proper engagements in 1v1s etc

You are right. But again, people like to play this GAME the way they like. And ANY way requires some kind of skill to be more successful. And there is no proper way. For you it is not logical that someone is going down to a lot of enemies but that guy LIKEs that way.

 

Also, you mention "enough time to analyze"... that is also a skill. Someone has skill or better to say TALENT to analyze FAST 5 enemies around them. Same time someone will not notice enemy 2 minutes approaching straight to him and he will not react at all. All I want to say that guys with high KDR and high altitude fights should show respect other kind of skills.

 

Some skills are not comparable. There is situation awareness, there is firing, turnfight skills etc... For example, what if I can kill someone 1 vs 1 head on 9 out of 10 times but he is better on rudder and turnfighting? Who is better player? But what is problem is that people with high KDR will tell that only their way of playing is really what it should be like "winrate is not important" "furball is mostly luck" "bombing does not require skill" etc... What if someone enjoys playing tempest vickers with 2 x 40mm ? You think it does not require skill to kill someone with that rubbish plane to spade it? What is wrong if people like to play it and enjoy in trying to kill someone with useless plane ?

 

Any side can have "proofs" that their way is better. What if I tell "You play stupid arcade where physics is not real!" or "When in real life where occured analytical 1v1 turnfights? Germans send one Bf 109 and one spitfire intercepts him and they fight 1 vs 1 ? Your way of playing game is just one more style and for you it is good way because you like that way.

[MickoBGD 57]

I have one question for you and one image to analyze:

In this game one opponent had 7 kills and one death so KD is 7:1... My KD in that game was 2.25. So that guy is 3 times better player than me, played better that game? Right ? No skill was needed to destroy most grounds units to be able to land, then land 6 times and same time make most kills and most assists and win at the end? Do you take into consideration what would happen if I tried to do the same as that guy? How many kills I would have if I didn't bother with tanks or to land 6 times? No skill is needed to analyze situation and execute landing and run away ?

 

And then, someone like him will come to forum with his 7:1 KD and tell me "GIT GUD"...

 

p.s. That guy is just an example of what I talk about, I didn't check his real stats, he may or may not be better than me