ground vehicles ELC Project (all variants)

[CaID 8,996]

 

i would like to propose a whole new family of tank part of a french project and offer a lot of uncoventional desing who are still working well. the program Engin Léger de Combat or ELC project

 

 

the ELC tanks was tested from 1955 to 1962 and offer a total of 6 variant fit from tier 3 to tier 5. some of those variant are so uncommon that they are more fit to be premium. the project's origine was based on a concept of infantry support tank as the fashion of the Renault FT in the WW1. the whole concept of this tank was reborn with the experimental prototype built by the engineer Pommelet in 1950 who built a monoplace tank armed with a sing M20 Bazooka. the experimental tank was opening the way to the concept of fast and powerful small tanks able to destroy the modern tanks. the sucess of the experimental prototype initiated the VP-90 project in 1952 ordered by the Marshall Alphonse Juin in 1952. the VP-90 project was planning to create a patrol vehicles who could reach a speed of 90km/h. the project give birth to a prototype in 1954 and was soon cancelled as the test show that the vehicles was too weakly armored and armed to be considered for services.  the project was taken by Lorraine, AMX-Hotchkiss and the engineer Even who in 1954 was stating to focus their armament on the recoiless guns. the three competitor offered many design armed with different type of recoiless gun and only 2 desing was ordered for prototype; the Lorraine with their mono-crew tank armed with six recoilless 105mm gun, and the 2 men crew tanks armed with four 120mm recoilless gun. we may have a tendency to think that a single engineer building a entire tank on his own would be logically surpassed by a entired compagny that built tanks and military vehicls for decade but sometime a genius can surprise the competition. the project offered by even was described as closely alike the vehicles found in other country such as the Type-60 and M-50 ontos exept for their road wheel inside the track who was cover of rubber (like the Lorraine 40T). Even at the opposite built a tank in the partnership of Ets Brunon-Valette, a vary small company in a small town and design a entire tank that was surprisingly well design for a moderm military vehicles. the tank was armed with 120mm brandt recoiless gun and could reach a speed of 80km/h. while the prototype show to be sucessful, the armament wasn't considered as such, the recoiless gun was not appreciated as tanks armament in the french army and coventional cannon was considered more accurate and had a better range than the recoiless gun. the requirement of changing the armament for the coventional cannon motivated the abandon of Lorraine and brough back AMX int he competition with a new tank hull based on Hotchkiss tracktor. from there the project was renamed ELC in 1955.  the project created a 6 variant of tanks (if we include the 120mm recoiless gun from 1954) and built a total of 10 tanks who was mostly sucessful in their test. however the tank never entered in production or real military service as the army choosed a armored car built by Panhard to fill the role that the ELC was supposed to have.

 

Variant.

EVEN ELC 120mm recoilless gun (unofficially called EVEN 120)

Spoiler

 

we cannot realise the small size of this thing unless we put two men next to it. the ELC armed with 120mm recoiless gun was the first of the serie, built by the engeneer Even with the help of Ets Brunon-Valette caompagny based in Rive-de-Gier, France, the tank was very small and very fast and able to destroy a enemy tank and be deployed by plane. the tank was built in august 1955 and was serious competition for the famous tank builder as AMX and Lorraine. 

 

the armament of this tank was 4x recoilless 120mm Brandt gun who had a penetration of 300mm. the dificulty of this armament was various, as a recoiless gun of large size, the backfire was very dangerous for the infantry and could set the building and vegetation in fire. the other problem of the gun was the low accuracy and low range who wasn't as good as a cannon (about 5-600m of effective range). the last problem of armament was the reload. the gun needed a manual reload who could be done only from the back of the gun. either the drive or the gunner could reload the gun from a hatch in the rear of the hull but this procedure was very long and difficult, the easiest way was to reload the gun from the outside but it was implying that the tank would be more a mobile artillery gun than a actual tank. a 120mm gun with auto loader was considered but never passed the design status.

 

the tank was tested until 1956 and was used as base for the next tank who was using a conventional cannon.

 

Production history
Manufacturer	Ets Brunon-Valette
No. built	1
Specifications ([2])
Weight	5 mt
Length	3,9 m
Width	1,9 m
Height	1.4 m
Crew	2
Main armament	4x 120mm Brandt recoiless gun (16 rnds stored)
Engine	Sofam 140 hp
Speed	80 km/h (40km/h offroad)

 

 

 

 

Even ELC 30

Spoiler

 

the ELC with 30mm was a first tank designed from the ELC program. the first prototype was built in 1956 and was armed with the 30 mm HS 831 anti-aircraft gun (not HS 825 like most people thing) but the tank wasn't designed to destroy aircraft. the gun was equipped with APDS round and could penetrate 100mm of armor at 100m. the tank was mostly designed to fight light armored vehicles and urban combat rather than actual tanks. the uncommon alien shape turret was an ocsillatory 1 man turret and was equiped with the 30mm at each side and the 7.5mm Mle 52 near the main gun a bit inside. the ELC 30 was built with a lot in common with the ELC 120 but also had a lot of improvement. the ELC 30 was built and design in parrallel with the ELC 90 and a total of 6 pre-production tank was built, 1 was the prototype and 5 was built and deliver to AMX in 1961 for been studied.

 

 

Production history
Manufacturer	Ets Brunon-Valette
No. built	6
Specifications ([2])
Weight	7,4 mt
Length	5.3 m
Width	2.15 m
Height	1.8 m
Crew	2
Main armament	2x 30mm HS 831 2x 7.5mm mle 52
Engine	Sofam 140 hp
Speed	68 km/h

 

Even ELC 90

Spoiler

 

design in parallel with the 30mm version, the 90mm version was a bit more coventionally armed with a tank of his time, the ELC 90mm was armed with a single 90mm Mecar gun. the gun was very light and compact and know to fit really well on light tank. while never been a standarized armament for a produced tank, the Mecar gun was found a various of variant of APC and IFV and light tanks. the ELC 90 was design to engage the real tanks and was nearly identical of the ELC 30 (exempt the turret armament). while been sucessfully tested, the ELC 90 wasn't as interresting as the ELC 30. tow tank was built, one is currently at Saumur meseum in working condition, the other is now a monument at camp de Carpiagne military base.

 

 

Production history
Manufacturer	Ets Brunon-Valette
No. built	2
Specifications ([2])
Weight	7.4 mt
Length	5.3 m
Width	2.15 m
Height	1.8 m
Crew	2
Main armament	1x 90 mm Mecar 1x 7.5mm mle 52
Engine	Sofam 140 hp
Speed	68 km/h

 

Even ELC NA2

Spoiler

between 1969 and 1971, one of the ELC 30 was modified to fit the Nord-Aviation 2 turret for test purpose. the new turret was equipped with 2 arms able to carry either 2x SS-11 or a single SS-12 ATGM. this tank was built after the project was cancel and was only studying the turret and his armament. the same turret was also tested on the AMX VCI and Panhard AML. the arms could be changed in about 30mins with the right equipment. no additional ATGM was stored. the test didn't lead to any production.

 

Production history
Manufacturer	Ets Brunon-Valette
No. built	1
Specifications ([2])
Weight	7.4 mt
Length	5.3 m
Width	2.15 m
Height	1.8 m
Crew	2
Main armament	4x SS-11 or 2x SS-1 and 1x SS-12 or 2x SS-12
Engine	Sofam 140 hp
Speed	68 km/h

 

AMX ELC

Spoiler

back in the competition in 1955, AMX-Hotchkiss built a new tank with the conventional turret. the tank was very light, with the weight of 6 metric tons and was equipped with a better engine over the even variant and could reach a speed of 80km/h. the hull was based on the Hotchkiss CC 2. the tank crew disposition was uncommon as the driver was sitting inside the turret on the right side of the gun. this disposition was requiring the turret to face foward when moving the tank to allow the driver to see where he is going and so, the tank was usually immobile when the tank was turning the turret. the turret had a rotation of 360 degree and a elevation of -8/+13 degree. the main armament was a 90 mm D 914 gun who was using sub-caliber shell for a better anti-tank efficiency. the crew was of 2 men. 2 prototype of AMX ELC 90 was built.

 

Production history
Manufacturer	GIAT (AMX branch)
No. built	2
Specifications ([2])
Weight	6.7 mt
Length	4.95 m
Width	2.24 m
Height	1.43 m
Crew	2
Main armament	1 X 90mm D915 cannon with 36 shells
Engine	164 hp
Speed	80 km/h

 

 

AMX ELC Bis

Spoiler

The last design of the ELC project that was built with the hope to be produced. the AMX ELC bis was a improved version based on the Hotchkiss TT 6. a new smaller turret was design and the engine was a bit more powerful. the tank was slightly bigger but was a bit more armored for the same weight. a single prototype was built and tested untile 1961 when the project was dropped after the Pahanrd AML was ordered and took the role that the ELC was expecting to fill. the ELC bis is currently in Saumur tank museum.

 

 

Production history
Manufacturer	GIAT
No. built	1
Specifications ([2])
Weight	6.7 mt
Length	4.97 m
Width	2.24 m
Height	1.58 m
Crew	2
Main armament	1 X 90mm D915 cannon with 36 shells
Engine	170 hp
Speed	80 km/h

 

 

 

 

source

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engin_léger_de_combat

http://weaponscollection.com/17/2396-elc-amx-para-prototipov-odnogo-tanka.html

http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/engins-blindes/engins-divers?task=view&id=714

http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/9-archives/de-1945-1990/713-1955-elc-even

https://web.archive.org/web/20140610175533/http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-echo/echo/elc_series/elc-series.html

Edited May 19, 2018 by CaID

[Radom 4,245]

Open for discussion.  

[CaID 8,996]

Just now, Radom said:

Open for discussion.  

thanks, but why the emoji look angry? i feel like he ask me to sign a divorce paper.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

+1

[Slipslime 660]

+1 I'll take 20

[IxiRip 182]

+1 but there is also the elc lorraine wich is a bit like the M50 ontos 

Edited February 16, 2018 by IxiRip

[CaID 8,996]

5 hours ago, IxiRip said:

+1 but there is also the elc lorraine wich is a bit like the M50 ontos 

the lorraine was built under the VP-90 program and is not part of the ELC program

[IxiRip 182]

21 hours ago, CaID said:

the lorraine was built under the VP-90 program and is not part of the ELC program

Didn't know that, I tought that it was part of the program because it hyad Elc in it, my bad

[DukeNukem64 2,326]

+1 I need more baguettes .

Edited February 18, 2018 by DukeNukem64

[CaID 8,996]

5 hours ago, IxiRip said:

Didn't know that, I tought that it was part of the program because it hyad Elc in it, my bad

the VP-90 program was a predecessor program of the ELC. it was created to built a fast patrol tank carrying the light and powerful armament. another problem when the Lorraine VP-90 is it was carrying a single crew member. it was mentioned in the text of the first topic.

48 minutes ago, DukeNukem64 said:

+1 I need more bagels .

the bagels are a stereotypical bread for the Jewish, the french are eating baguette.

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]

Hotchkiss CC2 SS-11

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]

Source : Wikipedia(Engin léger de combat)

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engin_léger_de_combat

 

 

ELC EVEN lance-roquettes

 

Cette version est équipée de 4 lance-roquettes Brandt de calibre 120 mm et deux mitrailleuses coaxiales de 7,5 mm Mle 1952. Une possibilité insolite de rechargement était offerte au conducteur depuis son siège.

Le prototype est commandé le 26 février 1954, livré en aout 1955 et évalué en avril et mai 1956 mais le passage du programme à un canon classique le condamne.

Une version avec deux canons de même calibre à barillets de 5 coups fut étudiée sur le papier mais écartée en raison du surcroit de taille et de poids.

 

Spoiler

ELC EVEN rocket launcher

 

This version is equipped with 4 Brandt rocket launchers of 120 mm and two 7.5 mm Mle. 1952 coaxial machine guns. An unusual possibility of reloading was offered to the driver from his seat .

The prototype is ordered on February 26, 1954, delivered in August 1955 and evaluated in April and May 1956, but the passage of the program to a classical canon condemns it.

A version with two barrels of the same caliber with barrels of 5 rounds was studied on paper but discarded because of the increase in size and weight .

 

This version doesn't actualy have rocket launchers. It is the one with the four 120mm guns     

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]

  What are the things sticking out of the gun ?

 

 

 

 

 and does it actually fier rockets ?

[TempestRiser 525]

ELC Bis is the way to go... 

[BrentD15@psn 1,117]

Heck yes!

+1

[Mattia_7 253]

+1

[Sabre_Alpha 104]

+1

[FouManchou 2,463]

@STEEL_GUNNER I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's a gun-cap, closing the mouth of the gun out of combat situations so that mud and/or dust can't get in and mess with the gun. 

the principle of the recoilless-gun is that the propellant pushes on both sides of the cannon (hence the little holes at the back to allow the gazes to vent at the back. It would be interesting to know what kind of ammo was considered though.

[lllmaxlvllll@psn 1,040]

Those tanks look so weird yet so awsome at the same time.

 

+1

[Valcour 1,141]

+1...They are very French!

 

[banana_777 19]

+1 GIB 

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]

@FouManchouI highly think that those are not recoiless riffles but rockett launching tubes

 

Wikipedia says : 300mm pen

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engin_léger_de_combat

 

On 09/03/2018 at 15:18, STEEL_GUNNER said:

ELC EVEN lance-roquettes

 

Cette version est équipée de 4 lance-roquettes Brandt de calibre 120 mm et deux mitrailleuses coaxiales de 7,5 mm Mle 1952. Une possibilité insolite de rechargement était offerte au conducteur depuis son siège.

Le prototype est commandé le 26 février 1954, livré en aout 1955 et évalué en avril et mai 1956 mais le passage du programme à un canon classique le condamne.

 

On 10/03/2018 at 16:23, STEEL_GUNNER said:

 

 and does it actually fier rockets ?

They look like rocketts to me

You can see the driver reloding exactly how Wikipedia describes it

Ps : It's probably HEAT

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]

More stuff : vp and lohr pvx

 

vp90 / 106mm recoiless rifle + 20mm :

Spoiler

 

 

vp 90 design art

Spoiler

 

different vp 90 / 75mm recoilless rifle ?

Spoiler

      

 

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]

look what I found ^_^

 

source : http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/SHDAA_REP_3H1_NO_343_1932_1974.pdf

[STEEL_GUNNER 231]