ground vehicles AMX30 Au F1 ( GCT 155mm )

[MiniDz@psn 552]

Hello, for my first suggestion i would like to suggest this tank

 

 

AMX 30 AuF1 (GCT 155mm Gun)

(GCT : Grande Cadence de Tir / High Cadency(Rate) of Fire)

 

 

History :

 

Though the French Mk 3 155mm would remain in production through the 1980s, by the early 1970s the French Army realized there was an urgent need for its replacement. The Mk. 3 155mm lacked a traversable turret and nuclear-biological-chemical (NBC) protection for its crew, and could carry only two of the four crew members needed to operate it (the remaining two having to be transported in support vehicles). Development of the GCT 155mm began in the early 1970s, and the first production version, known as the AUF1, was introduced in 1977. About 400 have been produced, with 70 having been upgraded to the AUF2 variant.

 

The GCT 155mm AUF1 is based on the AMX 30 main battle tank (MBT) chassis and equipped with a 155mm 39-caliber gun with an auto-loading system, giving a rate of fire of 8 rounds per minute, and a sustained rate of fire of 6 rounds in 45s. It is also equipped with a roof-mounted 12,7mm anti-aircraft gun. The AUF1 has an effective range of 23,500 meters firing conventional rounds and 28,000 meters using Rocket Assisted Projectiles (RAPs).

The first production AUF1s were delivered exclusively to the Saudi Arabian Army , while the French Army received their first deliveries in 1980, deploying the GCT 155mm AUF1 in regiments of 18 guns each. In addition, the Iraqi Army received a number of GCT 155mm AUF1 variants in 1980, which they employed during the Iran-Iraq War.

 

Specifications :

 

Type : Self Propelled Gun

 

Combat Weight (kg) : 43 500 

Length : 10,09m

Width : 3,10m

Height : 3,30m

 

Crew : 4 ( Commander - Driver - Gunner - Loader )

 

Hull Armor : 15 to 80mm of steel

Turret armor :  20mm of steel

 

Main Armament : Canon GCT de 155mm

Secondary Armament : 12,7mm anti aircraft machine gun

Turret traverse : 360°

Gun elevation : -5° / 66°

 

Engine : Hispano-Suiza HS 110 12 cylinder water cooled multi-fuel engine 720 Hp

Suspension : Torsion bar

Speed on road : 60 km/h

Operational range : 450 km

 

Picture of canon breech :

Spoiler

 

Ammo rack:

Spoiler

 

Some other pictures :

Spoiler

 

 

Video showing direct fire :

Spoiler

 

 

Sources :

-Trewhitt, Philip (1999). Armored Fighting Vehicles. New York, NY: Amber Books. p. 116

 

-AMX AuF1 (canon automoteur français) Belle reliure – 4 mai 2016

de NICOLAS Pierre-yves LUDMANN Julie (Auteur)

 

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCT_155mm

 

-  "Taschenbuch der Panzer 1983" by F.M. von Senger und Etterlin.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by *MiniDz
poll, coloured text, source

[SAUBER_KH7 3,325]

Open for Discussion.

[MiniDz@psn 552]

Thank you very much ! I'm sure it would make a great addition in the game 

[CaID 8,988]

i do not think that adding an mobile artillery tank that was built to shoot at 20km is fit for the game. but if it can do direct fire, why not.

[Kocyra 5,742]

On the condition it has decent ammo. If it fires HE only then its crap that shouldn't be added.

[CaID 8,988]

35 minutes ago, F7UCutlass said:

On the condition it has decent ammo. If it fires HE only then its crap that shouldn't be added.

the shell is loaded without the charge. the charge is loaded separately, technically, it can used any 155mm shell (KV-2's shell, Black beard's cannon balls, HE, APHE, HESH, AP, APCR anything that have 155mm of diameter, but only the projectile without the case.) then they add the charge and you shoot. there would be no empty case to extract from the gun after it was been used.

 

16 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

an artillery? really?

an artillery that can used dirrect fire, why not. if the player is bored, it can try to aim for the enemy airfield if they want. it would be funny if they could take out a plane that is rearming at the airfield.

[RefrigerRaider 563]

not sure if that is a troll post or not.

[MiniDz@psn 552]

1 hour ago, F7UCutlass said:

On the condition it has decent ammo. If it fires HE only then its crap that shouldn't be added.

For the ammo this is mostly HE, but i found mention of it being able to fire armor piercing projectiles on these website : 

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/f1_gct.htm

http://www.enemyforces.net/artillery/f1gct.htm

 

and on these : http://tanknutdave.com/the-french-gct-155mm-spg-aka-auf1-t/ - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/materiels-specifiques/artillerie/lanceurs/canon-155-auf1

 

mention the capacity of using all NATO 155m shells : 

" 

 MUNITIONS :

•  42 coups complets emportés/AUF1.
•  Toutes munitions 155 (françaises et étrangères).
•  La munition normale est l'obus à culot creux.
•  Les douilles sont combustibles. "

" 

Ammunition range
Any 155 mm NATO-standard ammunition and competent ammunition (BONUS)
Automatic loading of complete rounds
Automated storage and feed of shells and propellant charges (selection/loading "

 

In all that bunch if there isn't a round that can be deadly to a tank on direct fire i give my left arm for medical research ^^

 

59 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

an artillery? really?

 

41 minutes ago, CaID said:

 

 

an artillery that can used dirrect fire, why not. if the player is bored, it can try to aim for the enemy airfield if they want. it would be funny if they could take out a plane that is rearming at the airfield.

 

That's exactly the point of the last spoiler : direct fire, i understand and agree with the fact that an artillery vehicle would be 0 fun in this game, but that is the capacity of direct fire that made me want to suggest this vehicle, I am not very familiar with military research i have putted my best into this, i still have trouble to find infos about all these differents rounds that could be used, but in an ideal case, the devs must now this :P 

 

Also if some fears HE shell being fired in the sky at almost vertical angle, Gaijin could nerf the elevation ? Then it would be similar to another beauty we have already in game :

 

 

Also it could be added in 2 different ways, or keeping it's autoloader working which would make it Way better than the FV 4005 and so have a way greater BR,

 

Or adding it with a "broken" auto loader which according to sources would give it a 1-2 shot per minute rof

[Josephs_Piano 7,043]

It is nothing like the FV4005 - which was intended as a tank destroyer, and no it can't fire KV-2 shells - ffs are we playing final fantasy now??

[CaID 8,988]

12 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

It is nothing like the FV4005 - which was intended as a tank destroyer, and no it can't fire KV-2 shells - ffs are we playing final fantasy now??

look at how it work before saying it can or can't

here is the ammunition, at your right is the projectile, at the left is the charge, the projectile is not attach to the chage so it mean that anything that have a diameter of 155mm can get in the gun and the charge will be put behind it and the projectile will fly all the same, so yes. it can shot anything, if you put a rock that have 155mm of diameter, it would work. so the KV2's projectile will work too.

Edited February 18, 2018 by CaID

[Josephs_Piano 7,043]

I know hat it LOOKS like - but it is an artilery piece - the 4005 is a tank destroyer - you might as well say a battleship looks like a dingy - which it does.

[CaID 8,988]

Just now, Josephs_Piano said:

I know hat it LOOKS like - but it is an artilery piece - the 4005 is a tank destroyer - you might as well say a battleship looks like a dingy - which it does.

the stumpanzer II is an mobile artillery gun. the Ho-Ro is also an mobile artillery gun. there is not reason that an artillery gun cannot be in the game IF it can do direct fire against the enemy tanks. that one can do. sure the gun can shoot at 25 km but the indirect fire cannot be used under 2500m wich is pretty useless in the game. so this tank will be used at 99% of the times in direct first as a SPG just like any other SPG in the game.

[IxiRip 182]

+1 If it can direct fire and depress it's gun, that's enought for me to want it in the game since we have worse ingame.

 

[Admiral_Aruon 2,263]

2 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

I know hat it LOOKS like - but it is an artilery piece - the 4005 is a tank destroyer - you might as well say a battleship looks like a dingy - which it does.

 

so was the M4A3 (105), StuH, Ho-Ro, sturmpanzer II, etc. and let's not mention all the MLRS vehicles that are so insanely impractical they make the sturmtiger look like a front-line MBT.

 

 

 

the point of difference between SPART as far as WT is concerned is direct fire and anti-armor capability.

 

it can direct fire and has even been shown to do that. and there's also AP and apparently even ATGM-component shells for it (possibly as a component of a Dual-Purpose Improved Conventional Munition DPICM shell):

 

The F1 GCT fires standard and rocket-assisted HE-FRAG projectiles, armor-piercing, smoke and incendiary projectiles. Maximum range of fire is 23.5 km with standard HE-FRAG projectile and 30 km with rocket-assisted. It is also capable of firing ADC anti-armor precision guided projectiles.

 

and even if the claim of a french 155mm AP shell is bogus, when CaID says:

21 minutes ago, CaID said:

if you put a rock that have 155mm of diameter, it would work. so the KV2's projectile will work too.

 

he's not exaggerating.

that this arty cannon uses such a universally compatible system almost makes it seem so flat out stupid that nobody had thought of this before.

 

 

as for actual applicable ammo ingame: i'd say potentially any 155mm non-HE-only shell used by the french, germans, or russians. now just why these 3? because- the placement options for Au F1 gun/turret: AMX-30, Leopard 1, T-72; according to http://www.military-today.com/artillery/f1_gct.htm

"A complete F1 GCT turret can (also) be mounted on Leopard 1 or T-72 main battle tanks. However no orders were placed on such artillery systems."

[Josephs_Piano 7,043]

3 hours ago, CaID said:

the stumpanzer II is an mobile artillery gun. the Ho-Ro is also an mobile artillery gun. there is not reason that an artillery gun cannot be in the game IF it can do direct fire against the enemy tanks. that one can do. sure the gun can shoot at 25 km but the indirect fire cannot be used under 2500m wich is pretty useless in the game. so this tank will be used at 99% of the times in direct first as a SPG just like any other SPG in the game.

 

Sturm Panzer 2 is a mobile infantry support gun fielded as an assault gun - ie smashing things through (mostly) direct fire, Ho-Ro is based on the same infantry support concept.

 

If they were primarily artillery pieces then yeah, I'd be happy for them to be removed - IMO no weapons intended mainly for indirect fire should be in the game - including katyusa's!

[Josephs_Piano 7,043]

2 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

 

so was the M4A3 (105), StuH, Ho-Ro, sturmpanzer II, etc. and let's not mention all the MLRS vehicles that are so insanely impractical they make the sturmtiger look like a front-line MBT.

 

No, they were not - they weer intended for close support - not as artillery pieces - whether or not hte guns in them weer originally artillery, and yeah - happy to see indirect fire MRLS taken out.

 

BTW - KV-2 is 152mm - it isn't going to work very well at all in a NATO standard 155mm barrel 

 

On second thoughts...

 

[CaID 8,988]

12 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

Sturm Panzer 2 is a mobile infantry support gun fielded as an assault gun - ie smashing things through (mostly) direct fire, Ho-Ro is based on the same infantry support concept.

 

If they were primarily artillery pieces then yeah, I'd be happy for them to be removed - IMO no weapons intended mainly for indirect fire should be in the game - including katyusa's!

the artillery are support vehicles. try harder to find that they aren't artillery because they are artillery.

 

Type 4 Ho-Ro
Type 4 Ho-Ro Self-Propelled Gun
Type	Self-propelled artillery
Place of origin	Empire of Japan
Production history
No. built	12
Specifications
Weight	16.3 tons
Length	5.52 meters (18.1 ft)
Width	2.33 meters (7.64 ft)
Height	2.36 meters (7.74 ft)
Crew	6[1]
Armor	12–25mm (0.98in)
Main armament	150mm Type 38 howitzer
Secondary armament	none
Engine	Mitsubishi Type 100 air-cooled V-12 diesel 170 Hp (126.8 kW)
Power/weight	12.8 hp/ton
Suspension	bell crank
Operational range	200 kilometers (125 miles)
Speed	38 km/h (23.6 mph)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_sIG_33_auf_Fahrgestell_Panzerkampfwagen_II_(Sf)#Development

 

The 15 cm sIG 33 (Sf) auf Panzerkampfwagen I Ausf B built in time for the Invasion of France in 1940 had proven to be too heavy for their chassis as well as enormously tall.

The same gun was mated to the Panzerkampfwagen II chassis in an attempt to drastically lower its height while using a stronger chassis. The prototype used a standard Panzer II Ausf. B chassis when it was built in February 1941, but this was too cramped for use.^[1] The chassis was lengthened by 60 centimetres (24 in), which required adding a sixth roadwheel, and widened by 32 centimetres (13 in) to better accommodate the gun while preserving its low silhouette. 15 millimetres (0.59 in) plates formed the front and sides of the open-topped fighting compartment,^[1] which was also open at the rear. Its sides were notably lower than the front which made the crew vulnerable to small arms fire and shell fragments. Large hatches were added to the rear deck to better cool the engine.

The 15-centimetre (5.9 in) sIG 33 gun was used to act as close support artillery and infantry support, for which 30 rounds were carried, could traverse a total of 5° left and right and used a Rblf36 sight.

 

does this look like a direct fire for you? maybe they was trying to blow up a whole squadron of wellington with his very low velocity gun

 

9 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

BTW - KV-2 is 152mm - it isn't going to work very well at all in a NATO standard 155mm barrel 

i could put a bag of fork, spoon and knife in this barrel and them put the propellant and it would work anyway. any shell under 155mm would work too, just not as well as the 155mm shell.

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

1 hour ago, CaID said:

the artillery are support vehicles. try harder to find that they aren't artillery because they are artillery.

 

Ah, a wiki article says the word artillery in it. His argument is destroyed.

 

These vehicles were designed for direct fire support of infantry. Could they be used as indirect fire weapons? Yes. Is that at all unusual for a tank/tank destroyer? No. The M60 has the proper equipment for using indirect fire. That does not mean that it was designed as a self propelled artillery piece that just happened to be able to kill tanks. This thing would be nigh useless against armored vehicles above ~4.7 BR unless it gets an actual AP round. Even then it would be pretty useless against most Cold War tanks.

 

1 hour ago, CaID said:

i could put a bag of fork, spoon and knife in this barrel and them put the propellant and it would work anyway. any shell under 155mm would work too, just not as well as the 155mm shell.

 

If you seriously think that this thing could actually (safely) fire anything except a 155mm shell you have serious misconceptions about how guns - of any size - work. 

[Josephs_Piano 7,043]

And for the deluded - US Army standard 155mm ammo - no direct fire AT rounds...

 

2 hours ago, muzzleflash98 said:

Ah, a wiki article says the word artillery in it. His argument is destroyed.

 

Yep - I feel the burn....

[Xenecrite 899]

it amazes me that no one has not yet proposed this machine of death

[IxiRip 182]

7 hours ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

No, they were not - they weer intended for close support - not as artillery pieces - whether or not hte guns in them weer originally artillery, and yeah - happy to see indirect fire MRLS taken out.

 

BTW - KV-2 is 152mm - it isn't going to work very well at all in a NATO standard 155mm barrel 

 

On second thoughts...

 

 

http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/engins-blindes/automoteurs?task=view&id=686

Il peut également effectuer grâce à une lunette spécifique des tirs tendus à très courte distance en autoprotection,   wich mean in english:

It can with a specific binocular do shots at a really close range for autoprotection.

 

So with that said it was intended to be used in close range too if it was necessary, this making it more suitable for the game.

[Baconator100012@psn 929]

11 hours ago, CaID said:

the shell is loaded without the charge. the charge is loaded separately, technically, it can used any 155mm shell (KV-2's shell, Black beard's cannon balls, HE, APHE, HESH, AP, APCR anything that have 155mm of diameter, but only the projectile without the case.) then they add the charge and you shoot. there would be no empty case to extract from the gun after it was been used.

 

an artillery that can used dirrect fire, why not. if the player is bored, it can try to aim for the enemy airfield if they want. it would be funny if they could take out a plane that is rearming at the airfield.

 

 

The idea of blowing up the airfield in ground force battle is something i already wanna try. 

 

10 hours ago, CaID said:

look at how it work before saying it can or can't

here is the ammunition, at your right is the projectile, at the left is the charge, the projectile is not attach to the chage so it mean that anything that have a diameter of 155mm can get in the gun and the charge will be put behind it and the projectile will fly all the same, so yes. it can shot anything, if you put a rock that have 155mm of diameter, it would work. so the KV2's projectile will work too.

 

 

Rock you say?...pfft who needs AMX 30 AuF1 when you got...THIS!

 

 

No wear and tear on your barrel now ehh?

[MiniDz@psn 552]

About the ammo : according to these sources ( http://tanknutdave.com/the-french-gct-155mm-spg-aka-auf1-t/ - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/materiels-specifiques/artillerie/lanceurs/canon-155-auf1 ), the AuF1 can fire Any French, NATO and foreign 155mm shells.

 

I found this website (http://wotraw.ru/en/wiki/shells/all/features_table.html?page=1) who compiles names of different 155mm round used in another game, 

 

 

And on this Info WT Forum thread :   

Spoiler

 

 

This list of americans 155mm rounds : 

 

 

So again if there is not a round in all that bunch that is deadly for a tank on direct fire i would be very surprised.

 

Also i can understand why some players can be refractory to such a tank but in the game meta that we all know - see a tank, shoot it - I think this tank has it's place in WT, as i said ( just an idea ) the elevation could be nerfed ? and in a future where this tanks gets added with that +66° elevation, i really doubt that it would be possible to get a kill in war thunder with firing at such an angle, or only with an outstanding amount of luck.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by *MiniDz

[Baconator100012@psn 929]

1 hour ago, *MiniDz said:

About the ammo : according to these sources ( http://tanknutdave.com/the-french-gct-155mm-spg-aka-auf1-t/ - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/materiels-specifiques/artillerie/lanceurs/canon-155-auf1 ), the AuF1 can fire Any French, NATO and foreign 155mm shells.

 

I found this website (http://wotraw.ru/en/wiki/shells/all/features_table.html?page=1) who compiles names of different 155mm round used in another game, 

 

 

And on this Info WT Forum thread :   

  Hide contents

 

 

This list of americans 155mm rounds : 

 

 

So again if there is not a round in all that bunch that is deadly for a tank on direct fire i would be very surprised.

 

know what.. I'll take..ALL of it.

 

Quote

Also i can understand why some players can be refractory to such a tank but in the game meta that we all know - see a tank, shoot it - I think this tank has it's place in WT, as i said ( just an idea ) the elevation could be nerfed ? and in a future where this tanks gets added with that +66° elevation, i really doubt that it would be possible to get a kill in war thunder with firing at such an angle, or only with an outstanding amount of luck.

 

 

 

Or.. Or.. Not trying to be all WOT here.. but how about you get a special Map that put tiny squares all over. we have that but the squares are HUGE, so inside.. depending how good the arty is, it will look at the map, you click on the box and the gunner will measure the distance from your arty to your target. Then it will till you the degrees to set your elevation rather how many Ms between you two... so basically.. You're gonna actually do math to do indirect fire. 

 

 

plus i really wanna kill an Airfield.

Edited February 19, 2018 by *Baconator100012

[MrGinja 0]

This tank feels like it should be from 7.7-8.3 br, it may be a glass cannon but the gun is seems to be very powerful, i'll need to do more reading on the shells it fired but for now that's my opinion. Another 'issue' that will have to be resolved is that this tank might need to utilize a diferent aiming system than others, and will need to be balanced in a way that it cant sit in places large distances away (spawn) and snipe onto hopeless tanks that cant return fire at it. Other then that this seems to be a very interesting tank and I support it being added.

This balancing factor could be a limitation to only direct fire which would solve both of my problems with it.

Edited February 19, 2018 by MrGinja
Additional information/correction