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Independent Dutch Ground Forces Techtree


super_cacti
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Independent Dutch Ground Forces Techtree  

172 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the idea of the Netherlands being added into War Thunder?

    • Yes.
      132
    • No.
      40
  2. 2. Do you like the idea of other small/minor nations being added into War Thunder?

    • Yes.
      146
    • No.
      26


On 17-5-2018 at 8:15 AM, CaID said:

and it's not like the game wasn't already incorporating minor nation in the major nation. Canada is present in the US tree. Romania and Bulgaria in the German tree. Israel in the US tree. France started in the British tree. Italy in the German tree. it's may not be the best solution, but this solution is already in use.

all these examples mentioned baring the italians in the german TT are premiums. and even those were "temporary"
but you have proven my point. minor nations can work. as premiums.

Edited by *TheLastYouSee__
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  • 4 weeks later...
I love the fact that people take their time to create things like this, but I simply don't see it as being possible. The majority of vehicles of any tech tree should ones unique to said nation and a tech tree must be fully fledged to be considered. Otherwise we might end up with numerous small and pitiful trees like the ones seen in WoT. In the case of this Dutch tree, these unique aircraft would only be able to reach tier II/III (I personally don't think that the performance of the S.21 T.IX warrant tier III status even for arbitrary reasons). A similar situation is present for Dutch ground vehicles which can only form a tree reaching tier I and even if foreign vehicles are included, the Dutch vehicles above Tier V would be too few to warrant a tree. 
 
The Dutch really had some interesting vehicles however and it would be a shame to never see them in-game. As such, I'd prefer if composite trees were made. Not arbitrary ones with random minor nations, but instead ones with countries that were closely allied historically. A number of fully fledged composite trees could be created in this fashion while still making sense out of both a historical and game perspective. 
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  • 3 months later...
On 09/06/2018 at 15:03, McPuff said:
I love the fact that people take their time to create things like this, but I simply don't see it as being possible. The majority of vehicles of any tech tree should ones unique to said nation and a tech tree must be fully fledged to be considered. Otherwise we might end up with numerous small and pitiful trees like the ones seen in WoT. In the case of this Dutch tree, these unique aircraft would only be able to reach tier II/III (I personally don't think that the performance of the S.21 T.IX warrant tier III status even for arbitrary reasons). A similar situation is present for Dutch ground vehicles which can only form a tree reaching tier I and even if foreign vehicles are included, the Dutch vehicles above Tier V would be too few to warrant a tree. 
 
The Dutch really had some interesting vehicles however and it would be a shame to never see them in-game. As such, I'd prefer if composite trees were made. Not arbitrary ones with random minor nations, but instead ones with countries that were closely allied historically. A number of fully fledged composite trees could be created in this fashion while still making sense out of both a historical and game perspective. 

A number of fully fledged composite trees could be created ......renaming Italy into Minor Axis and France into Minor Allied and put Dutch etc planes/tanks into Minor Allied? 

Would be great!

 

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I think that for every new nations should think about aviation, helicopters, tanks and ships. If a nation can fill all of these it can be added

On 12/09/2018 at 11:52, Sabretooth_OPS said:

Italy into Minor Axis and France into Minor Allied

Italy and France are all but not "minor"

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 14/09/2018 at 11:32, BlueBeta said:

Italy and France are all but not "minor"

To be fair, Italy’s best “heavy tank” is 4-5 tonnes lighter than the M4 Sherman, and the 1940 Tour de France winner was the 7th Panzer Division.  They’re more like mediocre axis and allied nations.

 

 

 

 

 

I would be for Italy being a minor axis nation and France being a minor allied nation (they could keep their names, perhaps have them as the “parent” nation?  The main part of the tech tree, and the others are lines in the same tech tree, “parasite” lines of the host nation [Italy and France])?

 

Though a problem of both of these, for the Cold War eras, this could lead to Soviet vehicles in both of these NATO trees.  This could perhaps eventually lead to a separation mechanic like possibly we could see for East and West Germany: Polish and Eastern minor allies get their soviet variants, but is separated in RB and SB, and Romania, Czech, and other minor axis vehicles get separated from the Italians in matchmaker as well?

This idea does bring some confusion in the later ranks.

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if I am not mistaken only the MTLS was designed after a request from the Dutch Army but even then was taken over by the Ordenance Department who supervised its development and tested them even before the Dutch had a chance to see them, as for the other 2 I believe the CTLS was designed for the US Marines and the other a private project by Marmon-Herrington with no intended operator, both were eventually pruchased by the Dutch but were also tested by the US Army and the CTLS was even used to fight against the Japanese

 

so yeah, I would not say the Marmon-Herrington tanks were Dutch tanks

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12 hours ago, armando30 said:

if I am not mistaken only the MTLS was designed after a request from the Dutch Army but even then was taken over by the Ordenance Department who supervised its development and tested them even before the Dutch had a chance to see them, as for the other 2 I believe the CTLS was designed for the US Marines and the other a private project by Marmon-Herrington with no intended operator, both were eventually pruchased by the Dutch but were also tested by the US Army and the CTLS was even used to fight against the Japanese

 

so yeah, I would not say the Marmon-Herrington tanks were Dutch tanks

 

I will not argue with your opinion on this matter, but here is a post I made about the CTMS and MTLS: 

In the end the CTMS did arrive in Dutch hands, but the MTLS did not.

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15 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

In the end the CTMS did arrive in Dutch hands, but the MTLS did not.

 

I also mentioned that, I also believe that my post and the info you posted do not contradict each other

their case is similar to the M3 Grant

Edited by armando30
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A big update today! The second version of this techtree has now been released, this techtree has many unique Dutch versions of foreign vehicles. Be sure to check out the post again!

Have a nice day everyone, see you on the battlefield! :salute:

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I always support new addition but I had serious doubts this could ever happen, at least until I saw the UMM added as a event vehicle and now I really want this to happen

+1

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9 hours ago, armando30 said:

I always support new addition but I had serious doubts this could ever happen, at least until I saw the UMM added as a event vehicle and now I really want this to happen

+1

Great research on your part Cacti. I wish you all the best. :salute:

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22 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

Great research on your part Cacti. I wish you all the best. :salute:

Don't just thank me, @Capt_Versteegh and @*Soldier_676_ did a HUGE amount of research aswell!

Feel free to join our Discord and have a chat with us if you like :salute:

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  • 1 month later...

I was skeptical that there were any nations other than Sweden with enough vehicles for their own tree but after seeing this i'm convinced. I love the look of the tree you've put together here and I think it'd be great to have in-game! Sure there's a significant amount of foreign designs and some copy/pastes but with the "Chinese" tree setting the bar as low as it has this Dutch tree looks absolutely phenomenal in comparison and I see no reason why it couldn't be added. 

Edited by MajorFooFoo
Added a bit more punctuation and slightly improved the sentence structure.
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8 hours ago, MajorFooFoo said:

I was skeptical that there were any nations other than Sweden with enough vehicles for their own tree but after seeing this i'm convinced. I love the look of the tree you've put together here and I think it'd be great to have in-game! Sure there's a significant amount of foreign designs and some copy/pastes but with the "Chinese" tree setting the bar as low as it has this Dutch tree looks absolutely phenomenal in comparison and I see no reason why it couldn't be added. 

 

I'm glad you like it!

We worked hard to put this together and also to make the illustrations look as good as possible.

Positive feedback like this is always nice to hear! :salute:

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Why just a Dutch and not a low countries tree? Netherlands by itself doesn't have a lot to offer to be honest, I can see many copy-paste from France USA Britain etc. I would see it better as a Low countries tree with Dutch and Belgian tanks and planes since that geographical area has always been in contact with themselves. 

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13 hours ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

Why just a Dutch and not a low countries tree? Netherlands by itself doesn't have a lot to offer to be honest, I can see many copy-paste from France USA Britain etc. I would see it better as a Low countries tree with Dutch and Belgian tanks and planes since that geographical area has always been in contact with themselves. 

I'm not a big fan of combining multible nations together into one.

My goal for this project was to make a Independent Dutch techtree, and only that. No other nations.

 

Yeah ingame Gaijin could add stuff like Belgium vehicles into the techtree or other smaller nations like that. But I still want to see each nations ingame independently, and not combined into some mix-pot.

Edited by super_cacti

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2 hours ago, super_cacti said:

I'm not a big fan of combining multible nations together into one.

My goal for this project was to make a Independent Dutch techtree, and only that. No other nations.

 

Yeah ingame Gaijin could add stuff like Belgium vehicles into the techtree or other smaller nations like that. But I still want to see each nations ingame independently, and not combined into some mix-pot.

We have proposed something interesting for the Korean tree in this sub section, making it a standalone tree with gaps that rappresenta the real life time in which a nation wasn't indipendente anymore. A Dutch tree with a gap between eras would be justified since the nation didn't existed between 1940 and 44. It would give it historical value in battle and give the nation a full tree without having to rely on copy paste 

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32 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

We have proposed something interesting for the Korean tree in this sub section, making it a standalone tree with gaps that rappresenta the real life time in which a nation wasn't indipendente anymore. A Dutch tree with a gap between eras would be justified since the nation didn't existed between 1940 and 44. It would give it historical value in battle and give the nation a full tree without having to rely on copy paste 

That could work, but it doesn't really match up with our navy.

Our tank and plane development stopped during WW2, but our navy was still being maintained.

 

Altough I like the idea, I still think a lot of people will dislike a tree wich has giant holes in it.

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45 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

That could work, but it doesn't really match up with our navy.

Our tank and plane development stopped during WW2, but our navy was still being maintained.

 

Altough I like the idea, I still think a lot of people will dislike a tree wich has giant holes in it.

True but at the same time they would dislike a tree with many copy-paste like the Chinese one, given the fact that these are minor nations and of course with a limited industrial capability it would be normal to have gaps given lack of resources or means of production. Hoping for it anyway 

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46 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

True but at the same time they would dislike a tree with many copy-paste like the Chinese one, given the fact that these are minor nations and of course with a limited industrial capability it would be normal to have gaps given lack of resources or means of production. Hoping for it anyway 

 

I don't want to offend anyone here and + correct me if I'm wrong... But do Netherlands producing any of it's Heavy Equipment for Ground and Air Force? As I know they've been used Leo2A4s - A5s and A6s, modernized all to Leo2A6NL standarts and then sold it's all stock to countries like Indonesia, Finland. And for now I guess They just renting the German Leo2A6s to use with limited numbers(I'm not fully sure about this, but I guess I've read it in some forums)?? I mean I don't see any point to add such a tree into the game. :dntknw:

Most of Their equipment is totally same with it's NATO Allies and those have been produced abroad in countries like Germany and UK. It's better to suggest Devs to create Dutch Army-Air Force Camouflages. For example You'll get Dutch Army Camo for Leo2A6 in future after like 600-700 kill with it. They can also make this for all other Allies which are using German, UK equipments.

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18 hours ago, CneuHa3_TUR said:

 

I don't want to offend anyone here and + correct me if I'm wrong... But do Netherlands producing any of it's Heavy Equipment for Ground and Air Force? As I know they've been used Leo2A4s - A5s and A6s, modernized all to Leo2A6NL standarts and then sold it's all stock to countries like Indonesia, Finland. And for now I guess They just renting the German Leo2A6s to use with limited numbers(I'm not fully sure about this, but I guess I've read it in some forums)?? I mean I don't see any point to add such a tree into the game. :dntknw:

Most of Their equipment is totally same with it's NATO Allies and those have been produced abroad in countries like Germany and UK. It's better to suggest Devs to create Dutch Army-Air Force Camouflages. For example You'll get Dutch Army Camo for Leo2A6 in future after like 600-700 kill with it. They can also make this for all other Allies which are using German, UK equipments.

You are partly correct. Let's take the PRTL as an example.

This tank is a Dutch Gepard. But it's not a straight up copy. It has a different tracking and detecting radar wich are Dutch build components. In the PRTL Cheetah's example this makes it better then the German Gepard, because it has greater lock-on range and firering range.

 

There are other examples of this where the Dutch add their own components on a tank. To the naked eye these slight differences are hard to see, but when you dig in deeper you start to see all the little changes and it's really cool!

 

I'm not gonna lie, the Dutch ground techtree is the saddest one of all the Dutch techtrees, but atleast we got some unique variants wich we build ourselfes.

Edited by super_cacti
Small fixes.
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5 hours ago, super_cacti said:

You are partly correct. Let's take the PRTL as an example.

This tank is a Dutch Gepard. But it's not a straight up copy. It has a different tracking and detecting radar wich are Dutch build components. In the PRTL Cheetah's example this makes it better then the German Gepard, because it has greater lock-on range and firering range.

 

There are other examples of this where the Dutch add their own components on a tank. To the naked eye these slight differences are hard to see, but when you dig in deeper you start to see all the little changes and it's really cool!

 

I'm not gonna lie, the Dutch ground techtree is the saddest one of all the Dutch techtrees, but atleast we got some unique variants wich we build ourselfes.

 

Yea, I got your point and actually I would love to see such differences with various tech trees in game... But the point is Gaijin ever gonna add such stuff into the game? You know We just got Night/Thermal Sights into the game and there many shortcomings with them. For example many of Top Tier vehicles has Thermal Sight for commanders, Laser Targeting and stuff but as You know we don't have any of these details yet and I guess We're not gonna see them in short time. So I don't think Gaijin will work for such modernizations with same vehicles.

But again it would be really cool actualy and open the path for other Nations local modernizations too. But idk if it should be as an independent tech tree for Dutches or additional branch to one of Nations who are already in game.

From now on they should only add Swedish, Korean and Israeli Tech Trees as Independent Trees if they ever gonna do it so and find some other way to add equipments of countries like Netherlands... That is my opinion for now :good:

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1 hour ago, CneuHa3_TUR said:

 

Yea, I got your point and actually I would love to see such differences with various tech trees in game... But the point is Gaijin ever gonna add such stuff into the game? You know We just got Night/Thermal Sights into the game and there many shortcomings with them. For example many of Top Tier vehicles has Thermal Sight for commanders, Laser Targeting and stuff but as You know we don't have any of these details yet and I guess We're not gonna see them in short time. So I don't think Gaijin will work for such modernizations with same vehicles.

But again it would be really cool actualy and open the path for other Nations local modernizations too. But idk if it should be as an independent tech tree for Dutches or additional branch to one of Nations who are already in game.

From now on they should only add Swedish, Korean and Israeli Tech Trees as Independent Trees if they ever gonna do it so and find some other way to add equipments of countries like Netherlands... That is my opinion for now :good:

The Israeli tree will never come, gaijin stated that themselves, maybe under premium firm like we already have but never as a full tree. Sweden is the tree that is at max extension for now and the most likely to be added. Korean tree might need some work since it would only start at ERA 3 at Best. The other minor nations might be Dutch since is bigger then an ipotetica Belgian tree, Hungarian tree but it would have the same amount of copy pasted or just slightly variation of existing vehicles, it would be rely on those in ERA 4 and 5. Romania and Chekz could fill it but alone would be impossible. This are the only possible nations. Canada Australia and other commonwealth nations might form a commonwealth tree OR become branches of the British tree

Edited by MadMax_ITA_
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