flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 Hello everybody! I have a problem in understanding the silver lions reward system. I know it's a public mistery but I am making screenshots for some time now and here are 3 interesting results. I have 2 premium planes with same % in silver lions income (300% on premium account) and in 3 matches they gave me different results. Let's have a look... Match 1 Mustang: 19.440 / 8 = 2.430 SL Spitfire: 7.980 / 3 = 2.660 SL Match 2 Mustang: 11.580 / 4 = 2.895 SL Spitfire: 8.160 / 4 = 2.040 SL Match 3 This is how it used to be not so long ago... Mustang: 28.800 / 8 = 3.600 SL Spitfire: 3.600 SL 3 matches 3 different results. Obviously some changes were made to the reward system because I made the same thing some 6 months ago and the results in income were allways the same. For all the planes (all 300% planes allways gave 3.600 SL per kill). Now it seems there is some kind of penalty factor in new calculation and I wonder if you guys and girls could come up with some theory on how new calculation are made? Lowering the income is one thing but having different results from one match to another is very frustrating. Best regards, flybynature Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vescolar 102 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 Not all kills count the same, you get gradualy less points the more you kill. The first kill is worth more than the 20th. I do not know if I explained myself correctly, if you have any questions please ask me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Vescolar said: Not all kills count the same, you get gradualy less points the more you kill. The first kill is worth more than the 20th. I do not know if I explained myself correctly, if you have any questions please ask me. Thanx for your reply, Vescolar. However match 3 shows the same 3.600 SL per kill for both planes. I have a strange feeling that random number generator was implemented in income as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 10 hours ago, flybynature said: Now it seems there is some kind of penalty factor in new calculation and I wonder if you guys and girls could come up with some theory on how new calculation are made? Yes, and this was communicated officially. If you kill something a certain BR below yours, you get a deduction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said: Yes, and this was communicated officially. If you kill something a certain BR below yours, you get a deduction. aha... so if you kill something way bellow your BR you get less for that particular kill... I do remember killing some biplanes wondering how they even got in the match... thank you so much... now I know what to look for... I'll pay close attention to types of planes I send to the creator :-) you wouldn't happen to know the exact numbers would you? probably similar to RP penalties at grinding... or at least a link to the official note you are referring to? Thank you so much again, Dodo! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, flybynature said: you wouldn't happen to know the exact numbers would you? -1 was safe. I already tried to find it. No luck. Maybe someone else remembers the time of introduction. Edited August 27, 2018 by Dodo_Dud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vescolar 102 Report post Posted August 27, 2018 No idea when it was introduced but yes, it also depends on what vehicle you are destroying and its BR compared to yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Vescolar said: No idea when it was introduced It was this year. So check the patch notes... towards the bottom of the note. Was also discussed here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundsalz 574 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 This is probably the update you're talking about: https://warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/837 Unfortunately it only mentions the reward decreases proportionally with the BR-difference starting at a threshold of 1.7 BR without specifying how the reward declines. However with this info you should be able to quantify the parameters by crunching the numbers of some test matches, if you really want to know this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wundsalz said: This is probably the update you're talking about: https://warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/837 Unfortunately it only mentions the reward decreases proportionally with the BR-difference starting at a threshold of 1.7 BR without specifying how the reward declines. However with this info you should be able to quantify the parameters by crunching the numbers of some test matches, if you really want to know this. Yes, this is the one. They do give a rule. Never checked if it is correct. It would be (Reward * Target BR / Killer BR) IF (Killer BR - Target BR) > 1.7 Edited August 28, 2018 by Dodo_Dud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 OK... I have checked the replay of match 2... Mustang 300% 3.600 per kill BR4.0 1: P47D28 BR3.3 3.600 SL 2: Mig 3 15 BK BR2.3 780 SL 3: P39N0 BR3.3 3.600 SL 4: Spit mk IX BR4.3 3.600 SL Total: 11.580 SL Spitfire mk IXC 300% 3.600 per kill BR4.3 5: 109 E1 BR1.7 480 SL 6: IL2 1942 BR3.0 3.600 SL 7: FW190A1 BR3.7 3.600 SL 8: Ju87R2 BR1.7 480 SL Total: 8.160 SL I have managed to calculate the income on low BRs but that's it... I can't figure out the exact formula... but the penalty is huge... All I can add is that difference in BRs includes 1.7 and then more... If any of you guys or girls can figure this one out it would be really nice. Thanx again for all the info... and stay away from low BRs (or at least don't dive after them as it isn't worth losing the alt... or anything else :-D) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) This info is yet too incomplete. We need more data. It seems that planes from T2 and T3 deliver the same reward base of 1200SL (IL2, FW190A1, P47D). One fact: -1.3 BR is safe still, -1.7 isn't, which is not what was announced. 780 SL are 13/60 of the full reward, at 1.7 or 1.66666 difference. 480 SL are 8/60 of the full reward, at 2.7 or 2.66666 difference. If you have the material, you might want to file a bug report, as the deduction is too big. Also the reward or the deduction isn't proportional to the BR difference. Edited August 28, 2018 by Dodo_Dud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) I agree Dodo. There must be some fix factor included for tier difference I guess... similar as it is for RP. And yes, 86,66% penalty is just insane. Like it's our fault they use low level BR planes. As I understand the comments in discussion on that link this thing was made for tankers in first plan. Air is obviously more or less collateral damage. I guess just another kick in the a$$ to high tier tankers. Gaijin guys want the real currency... and they want it hard... buying SLs with GEs... insane... Edited August 28, 2018 by flybynature a$$ lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 I would seriously suggest to file a bug report. Nothing else will make a difference from this end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vescolar 102 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 You should propose this as a suggestion, not as a bug report. Here you have the Moderated Suggestions section of the forum. Keep us informed of how it goes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 I will never do such thing ever again. They don't even bother to answer. My last 2 suggetions / requests were about F8F-1B not having an option to select ammo on newly added pods, which was obviously a bug, and bullets fired from airplane bouncing of water surface which is rediculus. They've erased both of my 'suggestions' and that was it. 2 months later in last patch they fixed the ammo thing on bearcat. So I couldn't care less if they fix this or not. But if you ask me this is no bug... they just served it to us again and sheeps ate it. If you guys want to send a bug report then go ahead. I wonder if you even get the feedback. Or just plain and simple 'thank you for caring about our game'. For me the matter is closed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vescolar 102 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 Hi again, They may not reply but they do read it and they do fix it, just do not expect the change to be immmediate. The changes have to go through many people to get approved and released and that is time consuming, they do this so they can reduce the ammount of bugs or just overall problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 Go ahead then. Send them a link to this topic. They have all the data they need. Let's see what happens... LMAO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundsalz 574 Report post Posted August 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said: They do give a rule. Never checked if it is correct. It would be (Reward * Target BR / Killer BR) No, they state SL will be reduced proportionally to the BR difference. So the formula should look like this: reward = factor * ( killer_br - target_br) + offset. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 29, 2018 I think I got it... Main Factor = 0,374074074 0,1 BR factor = 0,009259259 Formula ... SL income = (Main Factor - number of 0,1 BR factors * 0,1 BR factor) * Reward from plane example from Match 2 Spitfire mk IXC 300% 3.600 per kill BR4.3 5: 109 E1 BR1.7 480 SL number of 0,1 BR factors = BR4.3 - BR1.7 = BR2.6 = 26 BR factors SL income = (0,374074074 - 26*0,009259259) * 3.600 SL = (0,374074074 - 0,240740734) * 3.600 SL = 0,13333333 * 3.600 SL = 480 SL So we can see that we get 37,40% out of 3.600 SL minus BR difference 0,92% times BR spread (at 0,1 per BR), which is never less then 17... For christ sake... who ever came up with that formula must have quite a storm going on in his / her head... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 29, 2018 4 hours ago, flybynature said: I think I got it... How many data points did you use to figure it out? Did you check it with new data? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 29, 2018 I saw it must be some huge constant in front as difference from 780 to 480 was only 300 for 0,9 BR. That was 33,333 SL for each 0,1 BR which is 0,009259259 or 0,925% out of 3.600 SL. I added 26 times that to total % for 480 from 3.600 (which is 0,1333333 + 0,240740734) and 17 times to total from 780 and it ended up with the same constant which was 0,374074074 for both planes and then I rechecked the formula for both planes and it worked. But I did that at 2 AM so when I'll feel like it I'll test it on some random plane and wait for some low BR to come across. Feel free to test the formula yourself and share the results in here. It would be nice to test it on tanks. I don't do tanks so if you could do it or someone else it would be great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo_Dud 5,074 Report post Posted August 29, 2018 So you only have 2 data points, right? You can put almost any kind of kurve through two points. Will it fit with a third one, that will be the test! So you better check at least one new different BR difference before you publish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybynature 36 Report post Posted August 29, 2018 But there are 2 different BR differences... 1.7 and 2.6... and 2 different planes... although they do have the same income... but have different BRs itselves... 4.0 in 4.3... yet that doesn't matter as it only checks the BR spread... I've checked ranks and it's the same for tier 1 and tier 2... I'll make more tests on more planes and you test the tanks... your stats show that you do play them :-) just take some 5.0 and smack some 3.0s... or something like that :-) and don't forget to make a screenshot after the battle... showing SL income per used tank... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
