Squadron Battles Reward Rework

[Grogdan 94]

The following is a proposal to rework the Squadron Battles (SvS) reward system. I believe (and I think many others would agree) that a change is necessary, what follows is simply a proposal.

 

The basics of Squadron Battles are: currently SvS rewards are dependent on what rank your Squadron achieves over the two month season. #1 gets 30,000 GE split among the Squadron's members, #2 gets 20,000, #3 gets 10,000, Top 5 gets 4,000, Top 10 gets 3,500 and Top 20 gets 3,000. The top 20 members by Personal Squadron Rating then get slightly more of the GE than the other members of the Squadron. Ignoring this for a moment to make my math simpler yet still prove my point, the top Squadron with 128 would each make about 234 GE at the end of the season (30,000/128 ignoring the fact that top 20 players get more GE). My Squadron with 84 members and currently within the top 20 would make 35 or 36 GE each. At the time I am writing this, the Squadron with the lowest amount of time in game within the top 15 is at 21 days worth.

 

For two months of playing every window, every BR we can, the rewards at the end are sadly minuscule. SvS on it own is a lot of fun, and brings out the competitive nature in many people. But being rewarded for the work put in is important as well. Its difficult enough for Squadrons to motivate people to play SvS over random battles (unless you are sitting in the Top 5 and always winning. Winning does a hell of a lot for moral), but if we can say, "I know this is tough and requires a lot, but THIS is what we are fighting for" and being able to point to an actually significant prize would change the game. As it is there seems to be a low percentage of the player base interested in playing Squadron Battles. Some just want to play casually and don't like competitive play while others don't want to invest the time or want to meet the requirements. Two months is a significant amount of time, and I believe players should be rewarded for their commitment. If I had the money, I'd reward players myself but that's certainly and sadly not a feasible option. The following is my rework for SvS:

 

Instead of making the rewards at the end of the season chunk amounts that are broken down, make them into "This is what individual players will receive." The decals are nice, but could use some changing out I think though that isn't the primary issue. Everyone is in it for the GE (and the respect/pride of being in a top squadron but that's less tangible). Even 234 GE is nothing for the top Squadron. Now, I understand that GE and other purchases is how Gaijin makes its money. And I feel that the money is well deserved. Great game, and we obviously all love it if we dedicate this much time to it. You wouldn't want to give out tons of free GE because then players wont buy as much on their own. Tournaments are a good way to earn GE without buying it. Some people cant take that much time out of their day to play however. Though the rewards from just one tournament could be more than that of an entire season of SvS for an individual player. I think that the GE system in SvS needs to be looked at. Something like members of #1 get 5,000 GE each, #2 get 4,000, #3 get 3,000, Top 5 get 3,500, Top 10 get 2,000, and Top 20 get 1,000 each. I chose nice numbers and fairly large numbers, but this would make SvS more worth it in my opinion. 5,000 may be a bit much, but earning 1,000 GE for a Top 20 finish sounds a lot more reasonable than 35. Possible other changes may be needed with the 1, 2, 3, 4-5, 6-10, 11-20 grouping, or how long a season lasts.

 

Assuming an average of 120 players per Top 20 Squadron, that's 2,300 players who would be earning GE rewards. Using the breakdown I said above, which as I said may be a tiny bit on the high end would cost Gaijin 4,350,000 GE. Thats 174 purchases of 25,000 GE from the store which would cost about $20,000. Now, I dont know about you, but if I were to get a little bit of free GE, I would be more likely to go and buy a little but more to get a vehicle/premium time/free XP etc. I think in the end, they wouldn't lose all that much, Squadron Battles would have an influx of new activity, with other benefits as well. Two months of hard work should be rewarded accordingly, and I don't think the current system does enough. I'm not sure my system is the best either, as the draw to the top echelon of Squadrons would be even higher than it already is, but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Squadrons are a great place to be part of a good community (with the right group of guys) but its also supposed to be competitive and a "higher level" of gameplay.

 

Gaijin, on the off chance you read this I'm sure you can come up with a different/better solution. but I think it should really be looked at. Seems SvS has been neglected for quite a while. If World War mode does ever make it out, that could also help improve Squadron Rewards and give people more reason to be in them, but I don't see that as happening any time soon, nor am I sure how motivating those rewards will be.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this, please share with your Squadrons, leave your comments below, and see you on the battlefield

-Grogdan

Edited October 20, 2018 by Grogdan

[NoZoul 358]

Hello! 

 

I´ll add a bit to this discussion, because I agree 100%.

 

I will quote you here:

2 hours ago, Grogdan said:

Assuming an average of 120 players per Top 20 Squadron, that's 2,300 players who would be earning GE rewards. Using the breakdown I said above, which as I said may be a tiny bit on the high end would cost Gaijin 4,350,000 GE.

 

 

That's miniscule compared to the amount of money spent on this game towards the goal of SvS.

I know for a fact that my own squadron - back in the days of only Tier 4. 80% of our squadron bought the IS-6 bundle and the T29 for SvS purposes only.

 

So, lets take those 100 people, times the bundle cost, 39.99$ = 3999$ earned from a squadron for one premium vehicle.

ONE squadron, and there's at least 50 squadrons trying to compete and "have" to purchase the new vehicles to stay on top.

 

I can't even imagine how many people bought the XM-1 just for this new 9.0 BR (I know I did).

I wish we had access to some real statistics, because all we can do is guess.

 

But yes, 

#1: Increase the reward.

#2: Market the SvS game-mode better. (Example, give people a pop-up window about it, or perhaps make every player strive to join a squadron to do SvS by setting up the interface towards that goal)

#3: Highlight SvS more in Thunder Show.

 

This will help War Thunder grow, and it´ll help the squadrons grow.

[dustyc99 4]

please share and up vote this 

[Dovahruss 0]

100% Agree

[themastrofall 42]

Seems pretty legit

[Merek123 1]

GP doesnt dress in furry clothes enough

[Merek123 1]

But yeah its pretty unfair and unmotivating to play for whole 2 months just to get a little to nothing GE at top 20

[Whiskoof 1,506]

More rewards mean more well known illegal temptations. If SvS is reworked, Gaijin will must enforce game rules harshly, because GE are real money. It's true 2 month is a really big investment. I've always thought it could be interesting to separate WW2 and Cold War, to create two tournaments, 1 month each with better rewards.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Whiskoof

[TimeforFreedom 22]

6 hours ago, Nightshriker said:

But yes, 

#1: Increase the reward. 

#2: Market the SvS game-mode better. (Example, give people a pop-up window about it, or perhaps make every player strive to join a squadron to do SvS by setting up the interface towards that goal)

#3: Highlight SvS more in Thunder Show. 

 

This will help War Thunder grow, and it´ll help the squadrons grow.

 

This Is the biggest thing IMO, Since if War Thunder makes incentives for Squadron Battles It will not only encourage the people who play squadron battles to be more competitive, but also help War Thunder make money due to the fact that more people will be grinding SRE vehicles and likely buy premium time/vehicles.

[white_3t@psn 9]

I would add that whatever the rework that occurs, each season all top 20 squadrons have a mandatory review for cheating before awarding of GE. If found cheating then they forfeit squadrons top spot or drop 5-10 positions due to cheater activities. Allow for contesting a false positive too.  

[Cpt_deVril 53]

My impression is that Gaijin doesn't have time to consider some changes in SvS despite the early suggestions. We can agree that refreshing the formula of SvS was a step in the right direction. It let engaged more people and clans in to daily activity, specially on lower tiers. I agree with changes in prizes to make SvS even more attractive. The weak side is low marketing activity of GJ. Ok they have a small team of developers and big plans to introduce new stuff but they must remember the gold rule of marketing. A loyal customer is cheaper than acquiring a new one. 

[DeKrieg 1,290]

This is probably one of the few things from last year's meeting that never got addressed:

 

 

So I'm not too hopeful for much change.

 

I'd like to see more rewards, especially for those outside the top 20 to encourage players to keep taking part in squibs and not get burnt out feeling like it's a waste of time (not suggesting GE, but boosters or decals or skins and other such pieces)

 

It's one thing to raise the rewards for the top 20, but I do think player's on an individual level need to receive more for taking part in squibs.

 

Especially when it currently shifts every week to a different br. We are getting a lot of player's who skip specific brs. So I'd like to see something for individual players that reward them for contribution to squibs each week (for example a box with a selection of boosters for winning X amount of games each week)

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by DeKrieg

[Miksuu14 28]

Raise the rewards at the top 20 and make top 50 or even the top 100 Squadrons to receive golden eagles too.

On 20/10/2018 at 18:35, Grogdan said:

Something like members of #1 get 5,000 GE each, #2 get 4,000, #3 get 3,000, Top 5 get 3,500, Top 10 get 2,000, and Top 20 get 1,000 each. I chose nice numbers and fairly large numbers, but this would make SvS more worth it in my opinion. 5,000 may be a bit much, but earning 1,000 GE for a Top 20 finish sounds a lot more reasonable than 35. Possible other changes may be needed with the 1, 2, 3, 4-5, 6-10, 11-20 grouping, or how long a season lasts.

 

This sounds good. Then top 50 would get you 500GE each and top 100: 250GE each.

I think this would get more players involved in squadron battles for sure.

[Venatores 309]

Sure the prizes need to be increased. But then again, no one plays squadron battles at the moment for the prizes anyways. They are far to low to even care about them. Its about the satisfaction you get from beating the other top teams. 1st place - top 20 - gives you 1200 GE.. that's nothing if you consider all the games that are needed to reach 2000 personal squadron points. 

 

On the other hand I do not think top 50 - top 100 should get anything at all. It really takes no effort what so ever to reach those positions. 

 

 

[Apologian 73]

If you want GE do tournaments, honestly you'll gain so much more for far less effort.

[Gunship 508]

On 23/10/2018 at 12:08, Apologian said:

If you want GE do tournaments, honestly you'll gain so much more for far less effort.

 

I certainly do not wish to take away from the tournaments, but the effort vs reward is completely wrong and very unfair compared with current SvS rewards.

 

SvS also fundamentally works differently to a tournament. It may come as a surprise to some, but we have many above 18 who has real-life commitments and it is much simpler to find a few hours to attend an SvS battle window than fixed time slots for tournaments, also there is almost no "pre-booking" you just turn up, jump in a channel with 7 squad mates and you are good to go. It is in many ways the perfect middle ground. 

 

I think tournaments and pro-teams is an idea that has not actually come to much apart from rewarding a few top players. We are very far from the player base of LOL, FIFA or COD and we will not fill a national stadium and have a million on live stream watching the yearly WT world championship anytime soon (sadly). Much better to fuel the SvS systems with much better rewards and build up the player base.

 

I do hope that our eSports manager @zerbah will bring this forward to the developers for consideration.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Gunship

[MAKYA97 5]

I think we should reward less competitive squadrons that still reach an excellent placement. I'll explain:
an squadron with 30/40 members can hardly aspire to victory, but if they commit, they can reach the top 50. now I think I would reward a squadron like that much more than the usual TYT or Promo that despite their great skill can however, count on hundreds of members

[PartizannBanditn 186]

On 27/10/2018 at 05:25, Gunship said:

 

SvS also fundamentally works differently to a tournament. It may come as a surprise to some, but we have many above 18 who has real-life commitments and it is much simpler to find a few hours to attend an SvS battle window than fixed time slots for tournaments, also there is almost no "pre-booking" you just turn up, jump in a channel with 7 squad mates and you are good to go. It is in many ways the perfect middle ground. 

This.

I dont play it anymore but squibs have potential and deserve much more attention by gaijin. The scoring definitely needs more thought. With alt accounts and no serious punisment other then banning of that particular account (who cares?) squibs need extra attention on that front or some solution for alt accounts. As someone mentioned I also never saw gold as motivation but if that would help the mode ok. One correction tho, arrange brs so that no prem/event vehicles can give you an advantage, prem vehicles should only buy you access to a level playing field at that br. 

[Gunship 508]

With ~50 players what this to be looked into, it would be nice if anyone from the community team responded, example @Stona

[Muumiperuna 35]

Issues in Squadron Realistic events:

 

1. Killcams. Players communicate their killers to their teams.

2. Corpse cams. Killed players become sentries who can see things without anyone being alive in the area.

3. Squadrons benefit from making tons of alts. Same skilled players rotate and top 20 is filled with main accounts and alts. Forcing players to make alts is no fun. You don't get big reward for ranking in SRE. Your alt get some of the golden eagle reward. Gaijin likes alts because it's presumed that diehard players spend money to boost alts to certain BR so that they can be used in SRE.

4. Players peeking at stats screen all the time. You must. It's annoying that you are forced to do this. Not doing it makes you lose advantage. I hope the whole screen would be removed from game altogether during battles.

-You can see who has spawned (and can guess the opposing team comp)

-You can see when you see someone even if you don't really see him (point gain)

-You can see if player is tank or plane (tanks get points for having LoS on tank, planes on planes)

5. Ultra low quality. Graphics settings should not give advantage to players. Currently players gain advantage by using certain graphics settings.

6. Low Esports viability because of aforementioned mechanics that promote boring, tedious tricks in order to gain advantage over opponent.

7. Invisible tanks. Ground vehicles become invisible unless you have visual on a specific point inside their 3d-model. If there's no sight to this point, whole tank is invisible. There are however lots of moments when you can shoot invisible tank, and invisible tank can shoot you. Imagine CS, Fortnite or PUBG with invisible players unless you have line of sight on their neck.

8. Invisible tanks. Did I already mention that if you aim through very narrow gap in a rock, you most likely become invisible?

9. Invisible tanks. You know it's the best camo. PLEASE ABUSE THIS MECHANIC TO YOUR HEART'S CONTENT SO IT'S FIXED.

 

Link to example of invisible tank, that is caused by not having LoS on specific point of the tank. The mechanic is still not fixed:

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Muumiperuna

[PlanetP 890]

On 20/10/2018 at 18:29, Lord__Merek said:

But yeah its pretty unfair and unmotivating to play for whole 2 months just to get a little to nothing GE at top 20

I won't argue against more rewards.

However, that's not the real problem with Squadron Battles and NOT the reason many squadrons don't play. 

 

Our squadron stopped playing Squadron Battles because of the horrendous and extremely unfair points system.  For one example, there's no way that a small squadron can compete against a large squadron - the issue is play time - the more time a squadron spends playing Squadron Battles, the more points they accrue. That's not competitive at all.

We were always a top 50 squadron and could have been a top 5 except for the fact that we could not manage to play in both windows, even though we are an international squadron.  Not that many people have time to play all the time and the windows are restrictive.  And playing squadron battles, because the battle rewards can be so small, keeps you from grinding.  Given that only a few players have unlimited time and those that do gravitate to the top squadrons....only those squadrons are competitive.

In an effort to get to a top position in one season, we forced members to play at one point, in order to stay in the squadron, and that kind of action will never be tolerated by the profiles inhabiting our ranks - members rebelled.  And I don't blame them.  If you look at the top squadrons closely, especially if you know their shenanigans over time, you know to what I am referring.

Your squadron is never going to be able to compete with a 128-member squadron that forces their players to get top points.  In fact, once a member gets top points for the season, further play in that season is anathema for that player, hence the proliferation of alt accounts (so the same player can garner more points without gambling massive points in a loss) - the chance of losing points is too great.  Smaller squadrons or squadrons with less active members suffer because the active members have to keep playing even when they have maximum points.

 

We love to play squadron battles - give us a fair points and reward system and our squadron and probably hundreds of other squadrons would be back before you can blink!  And then you could run Squadron Battles 24/7 because you have lots of additional squadrons playing...

That's all.  

[Ataman_ua 0]

Do you think the Squadron Battles Reward System should be reworked? YES YES YES!!!

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Ataman_ua