MN Duguay-Trouin (1923)

[FouManchou 2,463]

Let's open this suggestion forum with the one in-game nation for which (somehow) no naval tree has been announced.

I present to you the French 1923 Light Cruiser : Duguay-Trouin

 

History :

Spoiler

The Duguay-Trouin was the first major ship to be constructed after the first World War, as the French Admiralty felt a need to bring its pre-war fleet into the modern era of naval combat, taking inspiration from foreign designs.
Duguay-Trouin's keel was laid in august 1922 in Brest, launching on the 18th of april 1923, and being accepted into service after trials on the 15th of february 1927. The ship, leading the Duguay-Trouin class of three light cruisers, was designed with speed and firepower in mind. Protection-wise, although it was pretty weak in terms of armour (largely to abide by the Washington naval treaty), it was still equipped against chemical warfare with overpressurized turrets. The armour was also increased around the boiler-rooms, creating sealed compartments.
Duguay-Trouin was named after the famous Dunkerque corsair René Duguay-Trouin (1673-1736), who fought in over 80 engagements between 1689 and 1711.

Between 1936 and 1939, Duguay-Trouin served as a school-ship for cannoneers in training, sailing in the Atlantic. It was in Dakar (Senegal), when the war was declared between the Allies and Nazi-Germany, as a part of a fleet searching for the German pocket-battleships reaving the Atlantic trade routes. It later joined Force X in Alexandria, where it was to battle the Italian navy alongside the Royal Navy Mediterranean Fleet. After the armistice of June 1940, the ship was disarmed at port, escaping the fate of the main fleet at Mers-el-Kébir. The ship only rejoined forces with the Allies in 1943, reaching its original attachment-harbour of Dakar. 

Duguay-Trouin then underwent modernization works in Oran (Algeria), receiving an impressive anti-aircraft armament (4x75mm, 15x20mm, 10x13.2mm) at the cost of its torpedo-launchers. Duguay-Trouin was brought back from its mission as an ocean-patroller to support the Provence landings in August 1944, and then proceeded to support the troops on the Italian front.
 

After the War, Duguay-Trouin remained in France, where it was mobilized in 1947 for the intervention force in Indochina. He would serve 4 years as Admiral-Ship of the Naval Division of the Far East, taking part in 400 days of war-missions. In 1951, it was recalled to France, and was decommissioned on the 29th of March 1952. He would be sold for scraps the following year.

Overall, Duguay-Trouin served for 25 years in the Marine Nationale, taking part in many combats and proving the worth of French shipwrights.

 

Characteristics :

Spoiler

Length : 181.60 m

Width : 17.20 m

Draught : 5.20 m

Displacement : 7240 t (practical) to 9350 t (max)

Crew : 578

Powerplant : 4 x four-bladed propeller ; 4 x Parsons turbine ; 8 x Guyot du Temple boiler (102 000 hp)

Speed : upwards of 33 kts (61 km/h) at full throttle ; could maintain 30 kts (55.5 km/h) at half power for 24h

 

Armour : Main belt 20mm ; additional citadel armour 20mm  ; bridge 20 mm ; turrets 25mm ; bridge blockhaus : 20mm

 

Armament : 4x2 canon de 155 mle 1920 (4 shots per minute ; 21 600m max range), 1000 rounds HE, 60 illumination rounds, 160 practice rounds (total : 1220 rounds)

4x1 dual purpose canon de 75 mle 1922/24/27 (probably upgraded over the life-span)

4x1 AA 13.2mm Hotchkiss

4x3 550mm torpedo launchers

2 onboard aircraft 

Main armament characteristics :

Spoiler

155mm mle 1920

Caliber : 155 mm (6.1")

Length : 8.05 m

L ratio : l/50

Weight : 8870 kg

Ammunition : 

SAP (Semi-Armour-Piercing) : 56.5 kg with 2.9 kg of TNT filling, 870 m/s at the muzzle

HE : 56.5 kg with 3.3kg of picric acid filling, 860 m/s

Sources :

https://www.secondeguerre.net/articles/navires/fr/cr/na_classeduguaytrouin.html

https://memorial-national-des-marins.fr/f/184276-duguay-trouin

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_3-50_m1922.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_61-50_m1920.php

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_Duguay-Trouin

Edited October 25, 2018 by FouManchou

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[Graxum 332]

that's a pretty old ship, aren't there any more slightly more modern light cruisers that can be added to the french? (unless other nations' light cruisers are just as old)

[Lucky_B 357]

+ 1.

How about adding a poll ?

[Arghail 1,220]

If there was to be a Dugay-Trouin class ship that had to be picked, I would have prefered the Lamotte-Picquet, as it was the key to the formidable victory that was the battle of Koh-Chang, during which this old cruiser, with the support of a couple sloops, managed to neutralize the entire Thai fleet without a loss, even though it was armed with modern British warships.

 

Here's a couple of photos from the Lamotte-Picquet.

 

 

 

 

[Valcour 1,141]

+1  Yes Please!!!!

 

5 hours ago, Graxum said:

that's a pretty old ship, aren't there any more slightly more modern light cruisers that can be added to the french? (unless other nations' light cruisers are just as old)

The KMS Emden is the same age, and that design was based on a WW1 cruiser as it was.

[jon_man1199 563]

5 hours ago, Valcour said:

+1  Yes Please!!!!

 

The KMS Emden is the same age, and that design was based on a WW1 cruiser as it was.

Also if it is indeed True Japan will get the Kuma as their CL, she is from 1917 and considering we already have a ship from 1914 in game I don't think Trouin will be that bad 

[FouManchou 2,463]

Edited OP with poll and choice between Duguay-Trouin, Primauguet and Lamotte-Picquet

[FouManchou 2,463]

@Graxum like other people said, the CL's we have in game ATM are from the late 1910s-early 1920s, so it's the French CL class that best fits the current time frame.

Its speed is on par if not higher than the other CL's we have, and it would have some of the best firepower (most guns alongside Emden, largest torpedo complement alongside Krasny Kavkaz, second largest main battery caliber...) it would however lag behind in the secondary and AA department (unless we prefer some of the upgraded versions from the 30s and 40s) and especially armour. So it probably wouldn't be outclassed, while not being an OP vessel either.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

Here is some additional information on the Duguay-Tourin. The source goes as follows:

Jordan, John & Moulin, Jean. French Cruisers. Seaforth Publishing. 2013

 

 

 

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

while maybe not the FIRST french CL i would think of, i'm all for it with separate ships for particularly different armament loadouts.

[Milocat 4,856]

Would be a good light cruiser to see.  +1.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

i think this goes without saying for most people, but I support having all major refit versions of the Duguay-Trouin-class available. 

[sam_dom 87]

On 24/10/2018 at 21:30, Graxum said:

that's a pretty old ship, aren't there any more slightly more modern light cruisers that can be added to the french? (unless other nations' light cruisers are just as old)

 

• The Dugay Trouin proofed to be a  seaworthy , robust & reliable design , but  it's military valor in 1939 was a bit questionable ( old  , big target ,not armored , worn out ) .

Despite all of these problem , the ship proofed excellent  for colonial duty  . 
 

• Despite this fact , in 1951 , the  Dugay Trouin proofed to be pretty well preserved for her age , she was decomissioned whive regret

Edited March 10, 2020 by sam_dom

[DoxerWhite@psn 82]

Out of curiosity, did any of these ships were fitted with Laté 298 torpedo-bomber during their career ? Anyway it's still a +1 from me.

[FouManchou 2,463]

8 hours ago, DoxerWhite@psn said:

Out of curiosity, did any of these ships were fitted with Laté 298 torpedo-bomber during their career ? Anyway it's still a +1 from me.

99% certain that no. It would make very little sense to fit a cruiser with a single (or even a pair of) torpedo bomber : logistically, it means you're taking up space for multiple reloads which could be used for actual ship-borne torpedoes (generally just better) or even just shells ; tactically, torpedo bombers normally are effective through saturation (// throw enough at the wall, some of it's bound to stick), a single plane carrying a single torpedo couldn't really reasonably expect to do any damage. There's a reason everyone had/has quite specialized ships for carrying "attack aircraft"

The hydroplanes equipped on cruisers / battleships are only really there for scouting and shell drop spotting. At most they might carry a couple of small bombs.

[Abaddon75 460]

This and potential mail/vip mission, or antisub warfare, so bombs and depth charge maybe. I might be wrong on that last statement though.

 

Anyway, this ships would be the first CL for France, and as premium we could suggest the Lamotte-Piquet. Why? Because there is no special skin for this class (afaik) and this one have been part of the only french (vichy) naval engagement that could be classified as a naval battle: the battle of Koh Chang. Depending of the source the battle is quite different, so be carefull and look at different sources before writing anything about this one

Edited November 9, 2020 by Abaddon75

[DoxerWhite@psn 82]

17 hours ago, FouManchou said:

99% certain that no. It would make very little sense to fit a cruiser with a single (or even a pair of) torpedo bomber : logistically, it means you're taking up space for multiple reloads which could be used for actual ship-borne torpedoes (generally just better) or even just shells ; tactically, torpedo bombers normally are effective through saturation (// throw enough at the wall, some of it's bound to stick), a single plane carrying a single torpedo couldn't really reasonably expect to do any damage. There's a reason everyone had/has quite specialized ships for carrying "attack aircraft"

The hydroplanes equipped on cruisers / battleships are only really there for scouting and shell drop spotting. At most they might carry a couple of small bombs.

 

Ah, shame. I misunderstood an article somewhere on the internet that made me believe so. However, turns out I was still half true with Tourville carrying some. It was mainly an excuse for me to see more usage of the Latécoère 298 on ships since I'm not so confident in seeing Commandant Teste in War Thunder.

 

10 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

This and potential mail/vip mission, or antisub warfare, so bombs and depth charge maybe. I might be wrong on that last statement though.

 

Anyway, this ships would be the first CL for France, and as premium we could suggest the Lamotte-Piquet. Why? Because there is no special skin for this class (afaik) and this one have been part of the only french (vichy) naval engagement that could be classified as a naval battle: the battle of Koh Chang. Depending of the source the battle is quite different, so be carefull and look at different sources before writing anything about this one

 

Dakar, Mers-el-Kébir and Casablanca comes to mind.

[sam_dom 87]

On 08/11/2020 at 17:55, DoxerWhite@psn said:

Out of curiosity, did any of these ships were fitted with Laté 298 torpedo-bomber during their career ? Anyway it's still a +1 from me.

Probably not , that's not on my book


 

[Nathan0075 30]

An older, but very rugged design that served for a super long time. Yes, add it. The Duguay Trouin shows by how great the French are at ship building, at making reliable designs that could simply be described as wonderful. Say yes to the Duguay. Say yes to the 8x155mm cannons. And hecc, it looks even more modern than the Kuma.

[Abaddon75 460]

40 minutes ago, Nathan0075 said:

An older, but very rugged design that served for a super long time. Yes, add it. The Duguay Trouin shows by how great the French are at ship building, at making reliable designs that could simply be described as wonderful. Say yes to the Duguay. Say yes to the 8x155mm cannons. And hecc, it looks even more modern than the Kuma.

Hehe, what an enthousiastic comment, but don't forget that french design for DDs and Cruisers (except maybe for Algérie and Le Hardi) was putting all their points in speed and fire power, resulting in two major flaws, the protection is thiner than a sherman for most of these ships, and to house the massive boilers needed to get fast, the ships were huge and maybe in an attempt to limit water resistance, they ended up with hulls very high over the water line, resulting in sometimes balance issue and, in some cases, the loss of some main weapon system replace by some light AA. So you are big and tall in an almost unprotected ship, that have descent fire power and good top speed (but for this last part I don't think we will see the difference in game, or Gaijin would have to change how naval battle are set). Don't get me wrong I also a fan of french ships and I hope the will come in a not so far futur. I say all that to avoid you some bad surprise when releasing the MN.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Abaddon75

[sam_dom 87]

19 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

Hehe, what an enthousiastic comment, but don't forget that french design for DDs and Cruisers (except maybe for Algérie and Le Hardi) was putting all their points in speed and fire power, resulting in two major flaws, the protection is thiner than a sherman for most of these ships, and to house the massive boilers needed to get fast, the ships were huge and maybe in an attempt to limit water resistance, they ended up with hulls very high over the water line, resulting in sometimes balance issue and, in some cases, the loss of some main weapon system replace by some light AA. So you are big and tall in an almost unprotected ship, that have descent fire power and good top speed (but for this last part I don't think we will see the difference in game, or Gaijin would have to change how naval battle are set). Don't get me wrong I also a fan of french ships and I hope the will come in a not so far futur. I say all that to avoid you some bad surprise when releasing the MN.

Not exactly , the French navy was really embarrassed by the Italians thread , for the first time , the control of the  Mediteranean became a strategical obsession for the French .

• Early design  folowed the Italian concept of "Speed "

- The french admiralty was impressed by the  Léone & Navigatori  class of Espolartore 
Imédiadly , the french navy started to focus on contre-torpilleur for match

-The french navy was really embarased by her heavy-cruiser , they couldn't match italians counterpart , specifically the Zara class

• Algérie was a direct response to the Zara class

-Quickly , the french navy laid up the La Gallisonnière class of light cruiser , probably the best design of the early 30's !
 

• French ship weren't "unprotected " but protected by a double hull & what the french call  "une protection en caisson ", bulkhead in english .

The idea is to let's a shells detonate in safe area , has it was for the time , impossible to built so mutch armor .( 100 mm belt & 80 mm Deck )

That's a concept who existed prior to WW1& still exist today for face missile

just remember a cruiser like Algérie needed almost ten years of research an d development

Edited November 15, 2020 by sam_dom

[Abaddon75 460]

As I mention earlier I was puting Algérie and some other ship out of this kind of design, also Zara were launched in 1930 and enter service in late 31 and Algérie was ordered in early 31 and entering service in 1934... So not really 10 years if it was purely an answer to Zara :p

 

Spaced armor pretty well, but I'm pretty sure french navy was not alone to have this "technology" so having 25mm of armor won't do much and saddly after the Washington treaty fall apart french were still working on the next design that should succeed to Algerie, and before 1940 none were ordered afaik. So saddly Algerie will be the best and the last CH for France

Edited November 15, 2020 by Abaddon75

[sam_dom 87]

1 hour ago, Abaddon75 said:

As I mention earlier I was puting Algérie and some other ship out of this kind of design, also Zara were launched in 1930 and enter service in late 31 and Algérie was ordered in early 31 and entering service in 1934... So not really 10 years if it was purely an answer to Zara :p

 

Spaced armor pretty well, but I'm pretty sure french navy was not alone to have this "technology" so having 25mm of armor won't do much and saddly after the Washington treaty fall apart french were still working on the next design that should succeed to Algerie, and before 1940 none were ordered afaik. So saddly Algerie will be the best and the last CH for France

Well ..

Algérie own benefits from the experience acquired with the Duquesne and Suffren class, plus a number of major technological advance ,
 such as welding, high pressure boilers, synthetic materials.
The Algérie & the Dunkerque showed many similarity in the technology .

The French navy have an intelligence service ?
For the Dugay-trouin , the french navy was impressed by the new E class of the Royal Navy & the Omaha class of the USN .

Don't make a movie about a 007 agent but it's a pretty comon thing to know what the friend or the potent adversary have in mind .

Edited November 15, 2020 by sam_dom

[Abaddon75 460]

Did you read me lol

 

I think you don't understand what I'm trying to say XD idk if it's my fault or yours but please stap it with Algerie. I was talking about Duguay Trouin, and the early fench washington Heavy Cruisers. I know that you can keep a project secret for years, I was just pointing out that in the same comment you were putting Algérie as an answer to Zara where this thing was certainly kept secret since it was well above the Washington limits (if I'm not mistaken) until her launch or the start of her construction, 1 or 2 years before the the order of Algérie that was supposed to be some sort of prototype like the Emile Bertin, but for new class of Heavy Cruisers, and finishing that it needed 10 years to design the whole thing...

Edited November 15, 2020 by Abaddon75