F-104G "Starfighter"

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

F-104G "Starfighter"

 

 

The F-104G was west-Germany's first mach 2 capable fighter-plane, initially intended as interceptor, since in the 50s America feared, that the biggest nuclear threat will be squadrons of high-altitude, nulcear bomb carrying, bombers. For that reason the F-104 "Starfighter" was built for high climb-rate and speed, to get to those bombers as fast as possible and reliably intercepting them with it's 20mm M61 "Vulcan" gatling-cannon and AAMs.

Germany now wanted to adopt a new fighter-jet, so in 1956 a competition was organized to figure out, just which plane would be suitable for Germany. Some of the requirements were: it must be able to carry nuclear ordonance, it must be able to reach mach 2 and it must have all-weather capability. Other competitors were the F11F-1F and Mirage IIIA. There are some controversies about bribing going on, to pressure Germany into choosing the F-104, but this would slip this text into a more political direction, while this suggestion is purely to give you a very rough overview of what we can expect of this aircraft in War Thunder, plus a small historical overview.

So the F-104 "Starfighter" was chosen by Germany, specifically the F-104G, which was an all-weather fighter-bomber variant, with strenghtened wings, increased fuel capacity, strenghtened landing-gear with bigger wheels, modified flaps for improved turning characteristics, equipped with the Autonetics NASARR-F15A-41B radar, Litton LN-3 navigational system, and infra-red optics. A total of 916 Starfighters of the F-104G variation were partially bought by west-Germany from the USA for a unit price of 11M Dmark (5,6M Euro), but most F-104G were liscence built in Germany, which makes the F-104G the first, German, liscence built plane. The F-104G entered German service in 1960 and finished their service in 1991. To this date the F-104G is one of the planes with the highest crash count of any modern fighter jet, which is partially contributed by the fact, that Germany was using a dedicated high-altitude interceptor as fighter-bomber (granted it was a modified fighter-bomber version, but to it's core the F-104G was still an interceptor), which led to incidents like pilots misjudging their speed and angle of attack, causing them to not be able to pull up the aircraft in time during an attack-run on ground-targets, but also partial fuel-line failure and a generally high stall-speed (attributed by the very short/stubby wings compared to the rather massive fuselage) led to many accidents and also, tragically, deaths. Pilots had to come in for landings at almost stall speeds in order to land the aircraft somewhat safely, which will make the F-104 "Starfighter" also a more challenging plane to land in War Thunder, which in my opinion just makes it more interesting!

 

Pictures:

 

 

    M61A1 20mm "Vulcan" gatling-cannon

Martin Baker ejection seat with zero-zero ability

(made ejection without minimum altitude and speed possible, unlike the C1 and C2 seats) (the Martin Baker ejection seat replaced the C2 seat in liscence built F-104Gs)

 

Again the M61A1

 

 

 

Specifications:

 

Crew: 1

Lenght: 16,66m

Width: 6,68m

Height: 4,09m

Empty weight: 6,350kg

Normal takeoff weight: 9,365kg

Max takeoff weight: 13,170kg

Top speed: mach 2,2 (11km)

Service ceiling: 17km

Normal range: 670km

Max range (drop-off tanks): 1,740km

Initial climbing Speed: 244m/s

 

Engine: General Electric J79-GE-11A for bought F-104G's

             MTU J79-MTU-J1K for liscence built F-104G's

Thrust of General Electric J79-GE-11A: 44,50kN (without afterburner)

                                                                69,42kN (with afterburner)

Thrust of MTU J79-MTU-J1K: 46,48kN (without afterburner)

                                                70,95kN (with afterburner)

 

Weaponry and payloads:

- 1x 20x102mm M61A1 "Vulcan" gatling-cannon (725 rounds)

- 4x "Sidewinder" AIM-9B AAMs

-  2x AS.30 guided air-to-surface missiles

- 2x "Kormoran" and "Penguin" guided air-to-ship missiles

- 28x "FAAR" and "Hydra" unguided rockets

- Regular, unguided 500lb (x5) and 820lb (x5) HE bombs, aswell as nuclear (x1) and cluster (x2) bombs

- 4x possible 645l drop-tanks (2x on wing-tips and 2x under the wings)

 

Thank you for reading and if you spot a mistake, or want to add something to the suggestion, just post it below or send me a pm, so I can include it!

 

Cheers!

 

Sources:

https://www.deutsches-museum.de/flugwerft/sammlungen/strahlflugzeuge/f-104-g/

https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/politik/artikel/631467/todliche-starfighter-bilanz-269-absturze-116-tote-piloten#gallery&0&0&631467

http://www.rolfferch.de/F104G/html/briefing.html

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It0r3pNmeN8

Edited January 25, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch
Added poll and more pictures.

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[TerikG2014 1,389]

..... deifnetly no. main reason. it was a pig to fly to quote Eric winkle brown "It is not an easy aeroplane(the F-104) for an expirenced pilot. In bad weather and its even more of a handfull if you have an ermergancy"  (he also stated it was the wrong aircraft for germany at the time)

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by TerikG2014

[Kalonian 46]

6 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

..... deifnetly no

 

I AGREE

[fatih1000 10]

I do think that this is too advanced for right now, but later on it would be a good addition, seeing as the us already has an f16, f14, and f15 suggestion.

[Bend_Ova 110]

Yes! For West Germany of course! 

 

+1

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

13 hours ago, TerikG2014 said:

..... deifnetly no. main reason. it was a pig to fly to quote Eric winkle brown "It is not an easy aeroplane(the F-104) for an expirenced pilot. In bad weather and its even more of a handfull if you have an ermergancy"  (he also stated it was the wrong aircraft for germany at the time)

 

 

Why would it not be good to add a more challenging plane to fly in War Thunder? I think the F-104 being a more difficult plane to fly/master would make it a very interesting addition to the game.

 

13 hours ago, fatih1000 said:

I do think that this is too advanced for right now, but later on it would be a good addition, seeing as the us already has an f16, f14, and f15 suggestion.

 

8 hours ago, Not_from_Tokyo said:

Yes! For West Germany of course! 

 

+1

Thank you for your support.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

even if i hate the plane...... its part of germany's history... +1

[TerikG2014 1,389]

2 hours ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Why would it not be good to add a more challenging plane to fly in War Thunder? I think the F-104 being a more difficult plane to fly/master would make it a very interesting addidtion to the game.

Fair I also have my alternate reason for despising the F-104 but that's beside it

[Functor 230]

I think there is a general confusion on what is "advanced". A ton of fighters that entered production in late fifties had mach 2 and giant climbrate. We will have to adapt to these flight characteristics.

 

Otherwise I do not think it is an overly "advanced" plane. Supported even for the coming patch.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

1 hour ago, Functor said:

I think there is a general confusion on what is "advanced". A ton of fighters that entered production in late fifties had mach 2 and giant climbrate. We will have to adapt to these flight characteristics.

 

Otherwise I do not think it is an overly "advanced" plane. Supported even for the coming patch.

You are correct, most of the armament and ordonance of the F-104G is already implemented in War Thunder, such as the M61, AIM-9Bs, 500lb bombs and Hydra rockets, the only real new ordonance we "could" get (since nuclear weaponry is a no go for now) would be 820lb dumb-fire HE bombs, the AS.30 AGMs, which used a semi-active laser homing system (MCLOS) to target ground-units which would make it an excellent ground-pounder (and even then it was only able to carry two of them), and the "Penguin" and "Kormoran" air-to-ship missles. Besides that, it really only has an advantage in speed and climb-rate, compared to the F-100D and Mig-19PT, which, of course still jusifies a higher BR, but nontheless, the F-104G doesn't have crazy advanced and deadly

weaponry options,that would make it "out of reach" for the next updates. Also, thank you for your support!

Edited January 16, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[IHateT34s 20]

Nice to finally talk to you Stuhfleisch, I see you in custom games, but I digress.

The main problem with this aircraft is it's sheer speed. Adding this ATM is simply impossible. Flying at level would be hazardous as you could just end up going out of bounds and being sent back.

 

Currently the fastest vehicles in the game go around 1400 KM per hour and can climb to about 50,000 feet.

What makes you think adding a vehicle that can go in excess of 2400+ KM/H and zoom climb to 104,000 feet in altitude in a jiffy ever be a good idea for a balanced game? 

 

It's not like other people have made posts like these in the past with the exact same stats

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

I don't want to see the 104 so no.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

5 hours ago, IHateT34s said:

Nice to finally talk to you Stuhfleisch, I see you in custom games, but I digress.

The main problem with this aircraft is it's sheer speed. Adding this ATM is simply impossible. Flying at level would be hazardous as you could just end up going out of bounds and being sent back.

 

Currently the fastest vehicles in the game go around 1400 KM per hour and can climb to about 50,000 feet.

What makes you think adding a vehicle that can go in excess of 2400+ KM/H and zoom climb to 104,000 feet in altitude in a jiffy ever be a good idea for a balanced game? 

 

It's not like other people have made posts like these in the past with the exact same stats

Oh hi there IHateT34s, I remember you from CBs aswell. 

 

I know what this plane is capable of in terms of speed, the thing is, I made this Ssuggestion in "advance" if you like, so it has time to be seen by people until rank VI reaches a technological point, where it can support planes like the F-104G, or F4F, Mig-23BN etc. Just like with ground-forces rank VI, these early super-sonic jets are just the beginning, which means more modern and more capable planes will be added gradually for every nation to fledge out the new rank VI bracket. Just imagine this thread, as if someone made a suggestion for the Leopard 2K, while rank VI ground-forces just launched.

 

Cheers

3 hours ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

I don't want to see the 104 so no.

Care to explain why, or is this just a plain no?

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

It should definitely come for both Germany and the U.S

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

2 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

It should definitely come for both Germany and the U.S

Thank you for your support!

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

2 hours ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Care to explain why, or is this just a plain no?

-History of the 104 in Europe. I don't want to see the widowmaker in the German tree because, it was pushed by Lockhead to other countries and stopped many homebuilt projects, the hate it received from the german pilots and so on.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

49 minutes ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

the hate it received from the german pilots and so on.

 

Blame them for trying to use a dedicated interceptor for CAS, not the plane itself 

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

16 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

Blame them for trying to use a dedicated interceptor for CAS, not the plane itself 

yes it was.... we gone over this... other nations using this huck of junk lost as many planes by using it as an interceptor as we did... the plane was a bad.
http://www.i-f-s.nl/f-104-accidents/

Edited January 16, 2019 by dotEXCEL

[Functor 230]

Again, saying that 2400kph and 200mps climb is too much means goodbye to most of iconic third gen jets. All the signs are pointing to the contrary. Like I’ve heard that the main Russian streamer is confident that the phantom is coming by gamescom 2019. I’d bet that it’s gonna happen even earlier. 

 

Honestly fast alt jets will be annoying if we fall on campers (already how often you have a runner f100), but if you read closely the combat training of that period, the best tactic was boom and zoom, which in our game will mean them flying around 1500kph on the deck while trying to kill other targets and zoom climbing. Also lack of countermeasures and relative lack of maneuverability meant that f-104 were very vulnerable to missiles during the zoom climb. Hence one more point towards the disabling of that stupid message. 

 

As for the nations, it should also be added for Japan (104j) and eventually Italy in the form of f104g and 104s (maybe without advanced systems active at first). 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Functor

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

18 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

yes it was.... we gone over this... other nations using this huck of junk lost as many planes by using it as an interceptor as we did... the plane was a bad.
http://www.i-f-s.nl/f-104-accidents/

 

I've gone through one of your lists and seen that most of the accidents were caused due to pilot error. 

[Functor 230]

4 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

I've gone through one of your lists and seen that most of the accidents were caused due to pilot error. 

Same opinion is stated here. Though lack of proper maintenance is a close second. 

[TerikG2014 1,389]

5 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

I've gone through one of your lists and seen that most of the accidents were caused due to pilot error. 

Do you realise how hard the F-104 was to fly? Even Winkle  said it was dangerous

Edited January 16, 2019 by TerikG2014

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

1 hour ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

I've gone through one of your lists and seen that most of the accidents were caused due to pilot error. 

i see you have selected reading....

1 hour ago, TerikG2014 said:

Do you realise how hard the F-104 was to fly? Even Winkle  said it was dangerous

he is one of the biggest F-104 fans on the forums... throwing facts at him will straight bounce off.... just give it up

Edited January 16, 2019 by dotEXCEL

[TerikG2014 1,389]

1 hour ago, dotEXCEL said:

he is one of the biggest F-104 fans on the forums... throwing facts at him will straight bounce off.... just give it up

Ah I see your point

Edited January 16, 2019 by TerikG2014