Posted September 9, 2019 Implemented as of Update 1.91 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Kempston 342 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Hi Guys! My suggestion to you is the Westland Wasp, the navalised version of the Westland Scout. As there aren't any British Helicopter's yet I wouldn't necessarily be able to judge a BR for it, not knowing what other aircraft it will sit with, but I'll give it a shot! History & Design The Westland Wasp was an early attempt at a helicopter by Westland. Designed alongside the Westland Scout it first flew some 3 years later than its twin, having been designed for a somewhat alternative purpose. In the early 1960's submarine warfare was evolving, Nuclear tipped torpedos, advanced silencing equipment and new, more effective sonar design meant that submarines were an ever present threat to surface fleets, even more so than the days of U-boats and WW2. The Royal Navy,then part of the armed forces of the worlds third super power needed a new weapons platform in an era where an era of submarine espionage was dawning. Thus the wasp was developed as a short ranged helicopter that could accompany destroyers, frigates and other ships on newly designed areas of deck space given to the sterns of such ships. carrying detection equipment and an array of weaponry ranging from the Nord SS.11 and AS. 12 on later variants, to Nuclear depth charges to torpedoes. Though, for the purposes of the game I would possibly expect it to not carry anything nuclear, for now... In terms of defining it against the scout, more noticeably the landing gear are no longer skids, instead large gantry like undercarriage struts project from four corners of the aircraft. Their purpose to dampen the effects of a rolling and pitching landing pad, such as that on a ship. Additionally an increased fuel capacity creates a larger range for operations and flotation devices attached to the upper superstructure creates a unique look for what was a very different aircraft to the Scout. There are other features that were apparent, such as folding tailbooms and rotors with negative pitch. However, for the purposes of War Thunder they don't add to the look of the aircraft, nor the functionality, hence these won't be covered. Source for both History and Image Here Weapons & Loadouts In War Thunder at the moment, helicopters can be found in Ground Forces battles only. Thus only the Nord SS. 11 ATGM and the Nord AS. 12 ATGM would be of use at the moment, in terms of a loadout, and are more than enough for Tier V-VI AFVs, given that these types of weaponry were produced up to and well into the 1980's as a training weapon. This suggests that though not necessarily cutting edge, it is still useful to an extent whilst not being to overpowered. Evidence for this is displayed below, with the reference for the snippet being here. Spoiler For the purposes of in-game perfomance the earlier or latter variants could be used. Though the fact that the AS. 12 had a range of around 7-8km (~5miles), I would recommend the SS. 11 of which the range is 3km (~2 miles), so that you can't just sit at the edge of the map and take on targets out of their range, also, the Wasp could carry 4 x SS. 11 to only 2 x AS. 12, which means that the AS. 11 would be much more of an enjoyable loadout to helicopter pilots. References for the SS. 11 and AS. 12 can be found here and here respectively. It should also be noted that the Wasp carried a 7.62mm GPMG, flares and smoke, which means that it is more than committed to deal with Air-to-air missiles. In War Thunder In War Thunder, Helicopters are yet to be added for the British, however a small, punchy and fast helicopter would be useful, especially with previously suggested aircraft such as the Scout, the Wasp's land-based counterpart. I feel the helicopter would be extremely well suited for the British tree for the aforementioned reasons, as well as this the fact that it has the potential to evolve with the game, by either carrying torpedoes or the later AS. 12 ATGM as the game requires. As there are no British Helicopters in game as of yet, it would be hard to peg the Wasp with a BR, but given the fact it carries ATGMs, I would be hesitant to place it at base-level for British Helicopters, instead possibly placing it higher in the tree with earlier helicopters filing in below. However, failing this I could still see it as an Entry Level British Helicopter, considering the Germans start off with an ATGM carrying Helicopter. Specifications Westland Wasp HAS. 1 General Parameters Crew Compliment: One Pilot with one crewman Length (Including Rotors): 40ft 4in (12.3m) Rotor Diameter: 32ft 3in (9.83m) Height: 8ft 11in (2.72m) Disc Area: 816.9ft2 (75.9m2) Empty Weight: 3,452lb (1,569kg) Maximum Takeoff Weight: 5,500lb (2,500kg) Powerplant: 1x Rolls-Royce Nimbus 103 Turboshaft (783Kw) Performance Maximum speed: 120 mph (104 knots, 193 km/h) Cruise speed: 110 mph (96 knots, 177 km/h) Range: 303 miles (263 NM, 488 km) Service ceiling: 12,200 ft (3,720 m) Rate of climb: 1,440 ft/min (7.3 m/s) Disc loading: 6.75 lb/ft² (33 kg/m²) Power/mass: 0.19 hp/lb (0.31 kW/kg) Weaponry Carried Naval: 2 x Mk 44 or 1 x Mk 46 torpedo or 2 x Mk 44 depth charges or WE.177 600lb Nuclear Depth Bomb. Attack: 4 x SS.11 replaced by 2 x AS.12 missiles. General: GPMG, 4.5 Flares, Smoke/flame floats. Source for Specifications: 'Westland Aircraft: Since 1915'. 1st Edition, published 1991 by Derek N. James Please Note: I have included the full specification for weapons loadout, obviously I doubt a 600lb Nuclear Depth charge will make it into game, but I included it to gain a broader idea of what was carried by the Wasp. So, vote as you will on the poll, I hope you enjoyed reading this and Thanks for your time... So have some more photos "Blueprints" Reference for above image here "In flight" Reference for above image here "The Cockpit" Reference for above image here Again, thanks guys! Edited February 22, 2019 by Kempston Edited to include specifications 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Suggestion Moderator ItssLuBu 1,803 Report post Posted February 20, 2019 Approved and open for discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Suggestion Moderator TerikG2014 1,389 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Yes but this helicopter is a naval vehicle not and land one and the Scout is far more suited for the for the role of ground attack, not only does the Scout the Scout carry a wider armament but it also Carrie's more a more unique one to. Also surly your argument that the Scout can't be the entry level British because of it's ATGM is flawed because, The Alouette has ATGMS and is entry level and the Wasp also has ATGMS or ASGM but lacks armament like unguided rockets or machine guns. In addition.to this I see no where on your post that actually references the wasp carrier more than the AS.12.(which it's worth noting is not an ATGM but SAP anti-serface guided missile desgined for use on ships not tanks ) in terms of guided ordenance, after all there's not much logic in fitting an ATGM to something that's not going to fight tanks it's far more likely that it fitted the AS.11 the anti-serface varitant of the SS.11 (to quote the Fleet Air Arm musieum: Westland Wasp HAS1 (XT778) Armament - Two Mk 44 torpedoes, Mk 11 depth charges or two Nord AS12 air to surface missiles .https://www.fleetairarm.com/exhibit/westland-wasp-has1-xt778/6-30-71.aspx Edited February 21, 2019 by TerikG2014 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Kempston 342 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 On 21/02/2019 at 01:06, TerikG2014 said: Yes but this helicopter is a naval vehicle not and land one and the Scout is far more suited for the for the role of ground attack, not only does the Scout the Scout carry a wider armament but it also Carrie's more a more unique one to. Also surly your argument that the Scout can't be the entry level British because of it's ATGM is flawed because, The Alouette has ATGMS and is entry level and the Wasp also has ATGMS or ASGM but lacks armament like unguided rockets or machine guns. In addition.to this I see no where on your post that actually references the wasp carrier more than the AS.12.(which it's worth noting is not an ATGM but SAP anti-serface guided missile desgined for use on ships not tanks ) in terms of guided ordenance, after all there's not much logic in fitting an ATGM to something that's not going to fight tanks it's far more likely that it fitted the AS.11 the anti-serface varitant of the SS.11 (to quote the Fleet Air Arm musieum: Westland Wasp HAS1 (XT778) Armament - Two Mk 44 torpedoes, Mk 11 depth charges or two Nord AS12 air to surface missiles .https://www.fleetairarm.com/exhibit/westland-wasp-has1-xt778/6-30-71.aspx I'm not stating that there should be the Wasp instead of the Scout I simply think it could be a good aircraft along side, if reading my post I do not actually come to create a position statement stating that we should have the Wasp instead of the Scout, I simply state that it would be complementary to the Scout with fleshing out the British Helicopter Tree. Also, if reading my post properly also, my argument of where the Wasp should be placed is evaluated to consider both sides of the argument about its placement. I have taken into account the Alouette, hence why I have stated that it would not be a problem seeing that the Germans have an entry level helicopter with ATGMs. In regards to fitting ATGMs in total I have noticed you said that it does not make sense to fit ATGMs to a seagoing helicopter, this may be true, however I am simply stating what was fitted. Agreeably the SS. 11 was replaced later with the AS. 12 which in its design specification was anti-shipping, though also it was used over land for heavy fortifications, as well as having the capability of being fitted with a shaped HEAT round for anti-tank purposes. So in total, it is worth noting that the AS. 12 is dual purpose as anti-shipping as well as anti-tank not ruling it out for use in-game. Following on from this, if the development of the game allows, what would be the issue with fitting anti-shipping weaponry if ships develop enough in game to warrant the AS. 12 in the anti-shipping role? Finally, if there is no reference that can be found for the SS. 11 being fitted, as for the aforementioned argument above would it be such an issue to then stick with the AS. 12 considering the mentioned anti-tank capability it carried? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Suggestion Moderator TerikG2014 1,389 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Kempston said: I'm not stating that there should be the Wasp instead of the Scout I simply think it could be a good aircraft along side, if reading my post I do not actually come to create a position statement stating that we should have the Wasp instead of the Scout, I simply state that it would be complementary to the Scout with fleshing out the British Helicopter Tree. Also, if reading my post properly also, my argument of where the Wasp should be placed is evaluated to consider both sides of the argument about its placement. I have taken into account the Alouette, hence why I have stated that it would not be a problem seeing that the Germans have an entry level helicopter with ATGMs. In regards to fitting ATGMs in total I have noticed you said that it does not make sense to fit ATGMs to a seagoing helicopter, this may be true, however I am simply stating what was fitted. Agreeably the SS. 11 was replaced later with the AS. 12 which in its design specification was anti-shipping, though also it was used over land for heavy fortifications, as well as having the capability of being fitted with a shaped HEAT round for anti-tank purposes. So in total, it is worth noting that the AS. 12 is dual purpose as anti-shipping as well as anti-tank not ruling it out for use in-game. Following on from this, if the development of the game allows, what would be the issue with fitting anti-shipping weaponry if ships develop enough in game to warrant the AS. 12 in the anti-shipping role? Finally, if there is no reference that can be found for the SS. 11 being fitted, as for the aforementioned argument above would it be such an issue to then stick with the AS. 12 considering the mentioned anti-tank capability it carried? Fair points 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... 6 months later... ALIEN109 1,321 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) https://warthunder.com/en/news/6318-development-westland-scout-wasp-sting-like-a-bee-en About the skids/wheel, is it represented in variant name ? Edited August 23, 2019 by ALIEN109 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Suggestion Moderator TerikG2014 1,389 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 On 23/08/2019 at 22:19, ALIEN109 said: About the skids/wheel, is it represented in variant name ? Wasp will be in game with it's wheels and scout with it's skids. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... 3 weeks later... Smin1080p_WT 60,444 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 Implemented as of Update 1.91 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... This topic is now closed to further replies. Share More sharing options... Followers 0
Kempston 342 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Hi Guys! My suggestion to you is the Westland Wasp, the navalised version of the Westland Scout. As there aren't any British Helicopter's yet I wouldn't necessarily be able to judge a BR for it, not knowing what other aircraft it will sit with, but I'll give it a shot! History & Design The Westland Wasp was an early attempt at a helicopter by Westland. Designed alongside the Westland Scout it first flew some 3 years later than its twin, having been designed for a somewhat alternative purpose. In the early 1960's submarine warfare was evolving, Nuclear tipped torpedos, advanced silencing equipment and new, more effective sonar design meant that submarines were an ever present threat to surface fleets, even more so than the days of U-boats and WW2. The Royal Navy,then part of the armed forces of the worlds third super power needed a new weapons platform in an era where an era of submarine espionage was dawning. Thus the wasp was developed as a short ranged helicopter that could accompany destroyers, frigates and other ships on newly designed areas of deck space given to the sterns of such ships. carrying detection equipment and an array of weaponry ranging from the Nord SS.11 and AS. 12 on later variants, to Nuclear depth charges to torpedoes. Though, for the purposes of the game I would possibly expect it to not carry anything nuclear, for now... In terms of defining it against the scout, more noticeably the landing gear are no longer skids, instead large gantry like undercarriage struts project from four corners of the aircraft. Their purpose to dampen the effects of a rolling and pitching landing pad, such as that on a ship. Additionally an increased fuel capacity creates a larger range for operations and flotation devices attached to the upper superstructure creates a unique look for what was a very different aircraft to the Scout. There are other features that were apparent, such as folding tailbooms and rotors with negative pitch. However, for the purposes of War Thunder they don't add to the look of the aircraft, nor the functionality, hence these won't be covered. Source for both History and Image Here Weapons & Loadouts In War Thunder at the moment, helicopters can be found in Ground Forces battles only. Thus only the Nord SS. 11 ATGM and the Nord AS. 12 ATGM would be of use at the moment, in terms of a loadout, and are more than enough for Tier V-VI AFVs, given that these types of weaponry were produced up to and well into the 1980's as a training weapon. This suggests that though not necessarily cutting edge, it is still useful to an extent whilst not being to overpowered. Evidence for this is displayed below, with the reference for the snippet being here. Spoiler For the purposes of in-game perfomance the earlier or latter variants could be used. Though the fact that the AS. 12 had a range of around 7-8km (~5miles), I would recommend the SS. 11 of which the range is 3km (~2 miles), so that you can't just sit at the edge of the map and take on targets out of their range, also, the Wasp could carry 4 x SS. 11 to only 2 x AS. 12, which means that the AS. 11 would be much more of an enjoyable loadout to helicopter pilots. References for the SS. 11 and AS. 12 can be found here and here respectively. It should also be noted that the Wasp carried a 7.62mm GPMG, flares and smoke, which means that it is more than committed to deal with Air-to-air missiles. In War Thunder In War Thunder, Helicopters are yet to be added for the British, however a small, punchy and fast helicopter would be useful, especially with previously suggested aircraft such as the Scout, the Wasp's land-based counterpart. I feel the helicopter would be extremely well suited for the British tree for the aforementioned reasons, as well as this the fact that it has the potential to evolve with the game, by either carrying torpedoes or the later AS. 12 ATGM as the game requires. As there are no British Helicopters in game as of yet, it would be hard to peg the Wasp with a BR, but given the fact it carries ATGMs, I would be hesitant to place it at base-level for British Helicopters, instead possibly placing it higher in the tree with earlier helicopters filing in below. However, failing this I could still see it as an Entry Level British Helicopter, considering the Germans start off with an ATGM carrying Helicopter. Specifications Westland Wasp HAS. 1 General Parameters Crew Compliment: One Pilot with one crewman Length (Including Rotors): 40ft 4in (12.3m) Rotor Diameter: 32ft 3in (9.83m) Height: 8ft 11in (2.72m) Disc Area: 816.9ft2 (75.9m2) Empty Weight: 3,452lb (1,569kg) Maximum Takeoff Weight: 5,500lb (2,500kg) Powerplant: 1x Rolls-Royce Nimbus 103 Turboshaft (783Kw) Performance Maximum speed: 120 mph (104 knots, 193 km/h) Cruise speed: 110 mph (96 knots, 177 km/h) Range: 303 miles (263 NM, 488 km) Service ceiling: 12,200 ft (3,720 m) Rate of climb: 1,440 ft/min (7.3 m/s) Disc loading: 6.75 lb/ft² (33 kg/m²) Power/mass: 0.19 hp/lb (0.31 kW/kg) Weaponry Carried Naval: 2 x Mk 44 or 1 x Mk 46 torpedo or 2 x Mk 44 depth charges or WE.177 600lb Nuclear Depth Bomb. Attack: 4 x SS.11 replaced by 2 x AS.12 missiles. General: GPMG, 4.5 Flares, Smoke/flame floats. Source for Specifications: 'Westland Aircraft: Since 1915'. 1st Edition, published 1991 by Derek N. James Please Note: I have included the full specification for weapons loadout, obviously I doubt a 600lb Nuclear Depth charge will make it into game, but I included it to gain a broader idea of what was carried by the Wasp. So, vote as you will on the poll, I hope you enjoyed reading this and Thanks for your time... So have some more photos "Blueprints" Reference for above image here "In flight" Reference for above image here "The Cockpit" Reference for above image here Again, thanks guys! Edited February 22, 2019 by Kempston Edited to include specifications 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator ItssLuBu 1,803 Report post Posted February 20, 2019 Approved and open for discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator TerikG2014 1,389 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Yes but this helicopter is a naval vehicle not and land one and the Scout is far more suited for the for the role of ground attack, not only does the Scout the Scout carry a wider armament but it also Carrie's more a more unique one to. Also surly your argument that the Scout can't be the entry level British because of it's ATGM is flawed because, The Alouette has ATGMS and is entry level and the Wasp also has ATGMS or ASGM but lacks armament like unguided rockets or machine guns. In addition.to this I see no where on your post that actually references the wasp carrier more than the AS.12.(which it's worth noting is not an ATGM but SAP anti-serface guided missile desgined for use on ships not tanks ) in terms of guided ordenance, after all there's not much logic in fitting an ATGM to something that's not going to fight tanks it's far more likely that it fitted the AS.11 the anti-serface varitant of the SS.11 (to quote the Fleet Air Arm musieum: Westland Wasp HAS1 (XT778) Armament - Two Mk 44 torpedoes, Mk 11 depth charges or two Nord AS12 air to surface missiles .https://www.fleetairarm.com/exhibit/westland-wasp-has1-xt778/6-30-71.aspx Edited February 21, 2019 by TerikG2014 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempston 342 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 On 21/02/2019 at 01:06, TerikG2014 said: Yes but this helicopter is a naval vehicle not and land one and the Scout is far more suited for the for the role of ground attack, not only does the Scout the Scout carry a wider armament but it also Carrie's more a more unique one to. Also surly your argument that the Scout can't be the entry level British because of it's ATGM is flawed because, The Alouette has ATGMS and is entry level and the Wasp also has ATGMS or ASGM but lacks armament like unguided rockets or machine guns. In addition.to this I see no where on your post that actually references the wasp carrier more than the AS.12.(which it's worth noting is not an ATGM but SAP anti-serface guided missile desgined for use on ships not tanks ) in terms of guided ordenance, after all there's not much logic in fitting an ATGM to something that's not going to fight tanks it's far more likely that it fitted the AS.11 the anti-serface varitant of the SS.11 (to quote the Fleet Air Arm musieum: Westland Wasp HAS1 (XT778) Armament - Two Mk 44 torpedoes, Mk 11 depth charges or two Nord AS12 air to surface missiles .https://www.fleetairarm.com/exhibit/westland-wasp-has1-xt778/6-30-71.aspx I'm not stating that there should be the Wasp instead of the Scout I simply think it could be a good aircraft along side, if reading my post I do not actually come to create a position statement stating that we should have the Wasp instead of the Scout, I simply state that it would be complementary to the Scout with fleshing out the British Helicopter Tree. Also, if reading my post properly also, my argument of where the Wasp should be placed is evaluated to consider both sides of the argument about its placement. I have taken into account the Alouette, hence why I have stated that it would not be a problem seeing that the Germans have an entry level helicopter with ATGMs. In regards to fitting ATGMs in total I have noticed you said that it does not make sense to fit ATGMs to a seagoing helicopter, this may be true, however I am simply stating what was fitted. Agreeably the SS. 11 was replaced later with the AS. 12 which in its design specification was anti-shipping, though also it was used over land for heavy fortifications, as well as having the capability of being fitted with a shaped HEAT round for anti-tank purposes. So in total, it is worth noting that the AS. 12 is dual purpose as anti-shipping as well as anti-tank not ruling it out for use in-game. Following on from this, if the development of the game allows, what would be the issue with fitting anti-shipping weaponry if ships develop enough in game to warrant the AS. 12 in the anti-shipping role? Finally, if there is no reference that can be found for the SS. 11 being fitted, as for the aforementioned argument above would it be such an issue to then stick with the AS. 12 considering the mentioned anti-tank capability it carried? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator TerikG2014 1,389 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Kempston said: I'm not stating that there should be the Wasp instead of the Scout I simply think it could be a good aircraft along side, if reading my post I do not actually come to create a position statement stating that we should have the Wasp instead of the Scout, I simply state that it would be complementary to the Scout with fleshing out the British Helicopter Tree. Also, if reading my post properly also, my argument of where the Wasp should be placed is evaluated to consider both sides of the argument about its placement. I have taken into account the Alouette, hence why I have stated that it would not be a problem seeing that the Germans have an entry level helicopter with ATGMs. In regards to fitting ATGMs in total I have noticed you said that it does not make sense to fit ATGMs to a seagoing helicopter, this may be true, however I am simply stating what was fitted. Agreeably the SS. 11 was replaced later with the AS. 12 which in its design specification was anti-shipping, though also it was used over land for heavy fortifications, as well as having the capability of being fitted with a shaped HEAT round for anti-tank purposes. So in total, it is worth noting that the AS. 12 is dual purpose as anti-shipping as well as anti-tank not ruling it out for use in-game. Following on from this, if the development of the game allows, what would be the issue with fitting anti-shipping weaponry if ships develop enough in game to warrant the AS. 12 in the anti-shipping role? Finally, if there is no reference that can be found for the SS. 11 being fitted, as for the aforementioned argument above would it be such an issue to then stick with the AS. 12 considering the mentioned anti-tank capability it carried? Fair points 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALIEN109 1,321 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) https://warthunder.com/en/news/6318-development-westland-scout-wasp-sting-like-a-bee-en About the skids/wheel, is it represented in variant name ? Edited August 23, 2019 by ALIEN109 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator TerikG2014 1,389 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 On 23/08/2019 at 22:19, ALIEN109 said: About the skids/wheel, is it represented in variant name ? Wasp will be in game with it's wheels and scout with it's skids. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smin1080p_WT 60,444 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 Implemented as of Update 1.91 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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