aircraft/loadout Hawker Siddeley AV-8A Harrier - Marine Corps Harrier

[TyphoonCro 6,833]

Hello everyone,

Today I would like to suggest new plane for US tech tree, AV-8A Harrier

 

Hawker Siddeley AV-8A Harrier

 

 

 

Aircraft itself is not supersonic however in order to have vertical take off capabilites, it needed powerfull engine. So lets start.

 

Description

Spoiler

(Taken from NATOPS Flight Manual Navy Model AV-8A, NAVAIR 01-AV8A-1)

 

 

 - The AV-8A Harrier aircraft (see figure 1-1) is a transonic, single cockpit, single engine, jet propelled day night tactical fighter built by Hawker Siddeley. The aircraft is designed for close air support, intermediate range intercept, and attack missions to deliver conventional weapons. A navigation attack system is provided, to increase overall effectiveness of the aircraft as a weapons system. The aircraft is powered by a Rolls Royce axial flow, twin spool turbo fan engine. Four exhaust nozzles, can be positioned and controlled for V/STOL operation. The aircraft features shoulder mounted swept back wings with trailing edge flaps and ailerons. The longitudinal and lateral flight controls are hydraulically powered to provide the desired control effectiveness throughout the speed range. The hydraulic system has back up features for emergency operation. High pressure nitrogen is provided for the landing gear system during emergencies. The cockpit is pressurized and enclosed by a sliding canopy. A rocked assisted seat is provided for pilot ejection.

 

 

General arrangement

 

 

 - The aircraft is powered by a Rolls Royce F402-RR-401 twin spool, axial flow, turbo fan engine with thrust-vectoring exhaust nozzles. One of spools is a 3-stage low pressure compressor (fan) driven by a 2-stage low pressure turbine and other is an 8-stage high pressure compressor driven by a 2-stage high pressure turbine. Each spool is independent of the other, but tehy are co-axial and, to minimize gyroscopic effect, they contra-rotate. The engine, with water injection providing thrust boosting, develops a nominal (static test bed) thrust of 21,500 lb in optimum ICAO conditions or 20,500 lb without water injection. 

 

The four nozzles are mechanically interconnected and can be simoultaneously rotated by a lever in the cockpit, from fully aft through a 98.5° arc to a forward braking position to vector the engine thrust. The nozzle mechanism (figure 1-14) also operates a butterfly valve lever to supply bleed air to the reaction controls. The system is driven by two air motors which operate in parallel. supplied with air from HP compressor. The air motor drives a gear box which positions all four nozzles through mechanical linkages. When the nozzles reach the selected position, the control valve is positioned to cut off the air supply so that the nozzles remain in the selected position.

 

Nozzles control mechanism

 

Fuel quantity data

 

Total internal fuel: 759 gallons (~2,873 liters)

 

Control stick grip (from manual)

 

 - The aircraft primary flight controls consist of ailerons, stabilator and rudder for aerodynamic control and a reaction control system for jetborne control. The ailerons and stabilator are hydraulically powered by tandem actuators. The rudder is manually powered through mechanical linkage from rudder pedals. Artificial feel systems provide simulated aerodynamic feel. The ailerons and stabilator trim systems, through the actuators, move entire control surfaces. The rudder trim system moves a rudder trip tab. Secondary controls are the flaps and speed brake.

 

 

Primary flight control systems

 

  - The control stick is mounted to perfim left, right, fore and aft movement. The control stick grip contains five controls: a four way trim switch, a bomb button, a gun trigger, a camera button and a nosewheel steering switch. The trim switch can be unengaged by pressing a button on the forward left side of the switch and lifting the flap up and back. This exposes the two gang switches. These switches should not operated trims if only one is moved.

 

 - The stability augmentation system (stab aug) provides assistance in maintaining stability during hover and transitional flight by sensing movements about the pitch, roll and yaw axes of the aircraft and initiating a conmtrolled reaction to oppose the initial movement, thus augmenting the pilot's demands to the control surfaces and/or reaction control valves. A pitch/roll sub-system, provides the stability augmentation in the pitch and roll axes of the aircraft, while a yaw sub-system provides augmentation in they yaw axis.

 

Cockpit

Spoiler

 

 

(Harrier also comes with HUD unit, which I will shortly describe here using data from Flight manual)

 - The head-up display (HUD) system uses a cathode ray tube (CRT) and a lens system to project an information display of digital and analog symbols onto semi-transparent glass reflector (combining glass) which is in the pilot's line of sight. The display is collimated, i.e., focused to infinity, so that it is superimposed on the external view ahead. The HUD enables the pilot to fly the aircraft through any maneuver or flight profile without referring to the panel mounted instruments. Information is presented in several distinct modes which cover entire operational role of the aircraft.

 

Head-up display

 

 (Since it is too much to write, I will put pages from manual regarding HUD symbols)

 

 

 

 

 

Weapon systems

Spoiler

 - Two non-jettisonable 30mm gun pods may be installed on the lower sides of the aircraft fuselage. Each gun pod may be loaded with 130 rounds of ammunition and utilized for air-to-ground or air-to-air gunnery. Gun aiming symbols are presented on the head-up display combining glass. Controls required for operating the guns consist of the gun selector switches on the weapon control panel and the gun trigger and safety catch on the control stick.

 

 - Two AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles may be carrier on the outboard pylons to provide an additional air-to-air attack capability. Operating controls and indicators for the AIM-9 missiles are on the Sidewinder control panel, the left glare shield, and the control stick. Aiming symbols for missile firing are presented to the pilot on the HUD combinig glass.

 

Page 7 from SAC

 

Specifications

Spoiler

 

 

Dimensions (Taken from SAC)

Span: 25.27 ft (7.70m)

Length: 45.55ft (13.88m)

Height: 11.50ft (3.50m)

Wing area: 201.1 sq ft (18.68 m^2)

Wieght (empty): 11,966lbs (5,427.68kg)

Weight (basic): 12,098lbs (5,487,56kg)

Weight (combat): 20,300lbs (9,207,92kg)

 

Performance

Spoiler

(Performance charts taken from SAC)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photographs

Spoiler

VMA-231 AV-8A hovering

 

VMA-513 hoveing over USS Guam, 1972

 

Pair of AV-8A Harriers in flight, 1974

 

Harriers refueling

 

Sources:

- NATOPS Flight Manual Navy Model AV-8A (NAVAIR 01-AV8A-1)

- Standard Aircraft Characteristics Navy Model AV-8A aircraft (NAVAIR 00-110AV8-1)

 

(more sources may be added in future)

 

This suggestion may also be updated over time, with more sources and some grammar fixes.

Ver 1.0 - Original suggestion

Ver 1.1 - Poll added

Ver 1.1.1 - Added HUD data from Flight Manual (in spoiler under Cockpit section)

Ver 1.1.2 - Minor revision of suggestion

Ver 1.1.3 - Another minor revision

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by TyphoonCro

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

My stance on this is the same as what I've stated on the thread for the British one: I'll be fine with this being added, but not quite yet.  Its crazy P/W ratio (necessary to achieve VTOL capabilities) would allow it to fly circles (literally in some cases) around the current rank 6 lineup.

[RanchSauce39 397]

11 hours ago, Z3r0_ said:

My stance on this is the same as what I've stated on the thread for the British one: I'll be fine with this being added, but not quite yet.  Its crazy P/W ratio (necessary to achieve VTOL capabilities) would allow it to fly circles (literally in some cases) around the current rank 6 lineup.

 

 

meh not really a monster like people make it out to be

 

 

 

 

 

  utilizing the nozzles to pull extra maneuverability will bleed its energy really fast. in a single turn. Remeber its a ground attack plane, most of the time its going to be carry external stores, and even without them will have extra weight and drag from pylons from expended stores.

 

 

We already have supersonic aircraft that are faster in top speed and ROC. in tier 6.  T2 in 1,87 will be the best jet outclassing everything else. anyways ( but i digress)

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by RanchSauce39

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

It'd still be a very tricky plane to add and have properly balanced the way things currently are.  Let's wait till rank 6 is a little more fleshed out first before we look at VTOL aircraft.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Z3r0_

[Milocat 4,857]

I think that this plane would be a great tier 6 addition, but the VTOL capabilities do present something of a problem.  I still think it should be added, but maybe not for another update or two.  

 

+1.

[Wilhuff_Tarkin_ 467]

+1

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

On 07/03/2019 at 12:34, Milocat said:

I think that this plane would be a great tier 6 addition, but the VTOL capabilities do present something of a problem.  I still think it should be added, but maybe not for another update or two.  

 

+1.

 

My guess for how the VTOL capabilities would be handled is that it'd use helicopter controls when in VTOL mode.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

I would personally want the Harrier to be unique to the Brits

Edited March 22, 2019 by EpicBlitzkrieg87

[RanchSauce39 397]

On 22/03/2019 at 12:22, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

I would personally want the Harrier to be unique to the Brits

 

whilst the av8a is directly exported product ( British designation harrier mk 50), you cant deny later developments from USA.

 

But then again even exported aircraft have made thier way into other trees ( see German CLA sabres, Mig19, Italian and French F84G etc)

 

 

Av8B harriers however were manufactured in the USA  by MacDonal Douglas  and incorporated various   air frame modifications and new  avionics suites designed by aforementioned American Defense contractor over the 1st gen Harriers that would very much make that version different from UK's harriers,  even thier 2nd gen harriers which were if anything  in turn  derived from the  US av8b  ( Ie Gr7 and gr9)

 

Those are very much unique American versions.

Edited April 1, 2019 by RanchSauce39

[kamikazi21358 998]

On 22/03/2019 at 07:22, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

I would personally want the Harrier to be unique to the Brits

The US used it, it should be represented.

 

 

 

+1, I said over 11.0 though because I’m still hoping current top tier goes to 11.0 or higher, ie Jet Br decompression.

[RanchSauce39 397]

here is source i found that could be thrown in to the OP.

 

NAVIAR 01-AV8A-75 ( AV8A Airborne Weapons/ Stores Loading 1973)

 

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2016/11/av-8a-airborne-weaponsstores-loading.html

 

 

Although SAC only shows Aim9G for stores loadout, this manual shows that Harrier can accept Aim9B through Aim9D/G/H variations. There is also a mention of ballistic computing system and different options to use a analog panel to use based on munition type that are tied into it.

 

Ultimately one would need  a NATOPS tactics/tactical manual to know exact employment procedures and illustrated diagrams to get detailed understanding of how exactly this ballistic computer works ( is it a full on CCIP mode?)

Edited March 17, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[TyphoonCro 6,833]

15 hours ago, RanchSauce39 said:

here is source i found that could be thrown in to the OP.

 

NAVIAR 01-AV8A-75 ( AV8A Airborne Weapons/ Stores Loading 1973)

 

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2016/11/av-8a-airborne-weaponsstores-loading.html

 

 

Although SAC only shows Aim9G for stores loadout, this manual shows that Harrier can accept Aim9B through Aim9D/G/H variations. There is also a mention of ballistic computing system and different options to use a analog panel to use based on munition type that are tied into it.

 

Ultimately one would need  a NATOPS tactics/tactical manual to know exact employment procedures and illustrated diagrams to get detailed understanding of how exactly this ballistic computer works ( is it a full on CCIP mode?)

 

Will have to check

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

what about countermeasures ? because it become to be the meta right now

[TyphoonCro 6,833]

33 minutes ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

what about countermeasures ? because it become to be the meta right now

 

Wasn't able to find anything...

Though to reply to @RanchSauce39, it appears it does have some weapon aiming system

Might be possible that it had CCIP for rockets and bombs (since it also had multiple mode HUD)

[MandolinMagi 603]

Here's an actual download link for the manual and for the SAC.

 

And I can't find any evidence the AV-8A had any countermeasures at all.

 

 

 

 

[RanchSauce39 397]

 

sadly  it appears counter measures didn't become a thing until AV-8C

 

http://www.joebaugher.com/usattack/av8_3.html

 

 

 

"47 AV-8As were upgraded to AV-8C standard between 1979 and 1984. They were given structural upgrades designed to increase the airframe lifetime. The AV-8C also received a Litton AN/ALR-45F radar warning receiver with antennae in the wingtip and tailcone. An AN/ALE-39 chaff/flare dispenser was installed in the lower fuselage. An onboard oxygen generation system was provided. New secure radios were provided. and the lift-improvement devices developed for the AV-8B were installed. The AV-8C served alongside the unmodified AV-8As until they were finally withdrawn from service in 1987"

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

tbh the "A" model could be even lower than our current 10.3 (considering we give it the oldest sidewinder it could carry ) and i can see the "C" model as a 10.3 with countermeasure and AIM-9G or even AIM-9L as a compensation for the lack of speed

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[RanchSauce39 397]

14 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

tbh the "A" model could be even lower than our current 10.3 (considering we give it the oldest sidewinder it could carry ) and i can see the "C" model as a 10.3 with countermeasure and AIM-9G or even AIM-9L as a compensation for the lack of speed

 

IMO at that point instead of having both AV8A and AV8C you may as well skip C and consider the AV8B harrier 2 for endgame 10.3 b.r. Bigger payload,  opens up potential for other unique guided munitions such as anti radiation missiles ( AGM122 sidearm)Especially if going for the av8b  Night attack variant, which would offer a nose placed daylight  Electro optical Targeting sensor. We already day/night targeting sensors ( FLIR) on helos anyways thus making  self designated laser guided munitions a possibility for a fixed wing aircraft.

 

AV8B harrier Plus in turn would offer a usmc av8b harrier with a on board radar in place of ARBS  electro optical sensor( if necessary an external TGP can by carried on a hardpoint)

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

7 hours ago, RanchSauce39 said:

 

IMO at that point instead of having both AV8A and AV8C you may as well skip C and consider the AV8B harrier 2 for endgame 10.3 b.r. Bigger payload,  opens up potential for other unique guided munitions such as anti radiation missiles ( AGM122 sidearm)Especially if going for the av8b  Night attack variant, which would offer a nose placed daylight  Electro optical Targeting sensor. We already day/night targeting sensors ( FLIR) on helos anyways thus making  self designated laser guided munitions a possibility for a fixed wing aircraft.

 

AV8B harrier Plus in turn would offer a usmc av8b harrier with a on board radar in place of ARBS  electro optical sensor( if necessary an external TGP can by carried on a hardpoint)

 

i don't know if we are ready for guided munitions on jets , helos are already a pain in the a** sometimes so a jet that can engage further and evade  incoming SAM is not really gonna bring balance to the game , that's why the AV-8A is a good option at the moment.

We would need longer range SAM and they can only be use in that role not like adats and tunguska

Edited March 21, 2020 by MonkeyBussiness

[_Pixy 196]

+1

[RanchSauce39 397]

8 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

i don't know if we are ready for guided munitions on jets , helos are already a pain in the a** sometimes so a jet that can engage further and evade  incoming SAM is not really gonna bring balance to the game , that's why the AV-8A is a good option at the moment.

We would need longer range SAM and they can only be use in that role not like adats and tunguska

 

Av8B doesnt have to get its guided muntions ( again only N/A and plus versions  can self employ anything beyond an agm122 ARM ) , it simply opens the possibility for them. . the AGM 122 isnt really scary. all one has to do to counter ARM's is to turn off the radar. the AGM122 is an Aim9C conversion into anti radiation missile. ( which was a radar guided conversion of AIm9B).

 

Gajin balances by munitions types. the F4C was  already capable of using AGM45 shrike, and the F4E would have ARM's as well as laser guided munitions and mavericks, but gajin omitted them, just as they did sparrow radar guided missiles for all phantoms.

 

As you said AV8A is suitable for 8.7 - 9.0 b.r  at most if it only gets Aim9B. IN meta of the game BUt It may as well be a less maneuverable  VTOL/STOL version of the  skyhawk but with a ballistic computer. 

 

Av8A is is not 10.3 material. av8B is really needed to make a solid subsonic attack vehicle for 10.3, and to make a bigger impact than AV8C to make it worth researching an endgame attacker that is not just going to be exact copy paste  of a prior vehicle  with just RWR and Flares added on.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[TyphoonCro 6,833]

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6918-development-jump-jets-arrive-in-war-thunder-meet-the-harrier-en

 

Since it is coming in next update...

I think this can be moved to Implemented suggestions

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

Confirmed as a premium.