Balance improvements in Aircraft Realistic Battles

[Stona_WT 72,761]

 

In order to improve balance in aircraft Realistic Battles  for vehicles of BR 7.7 and higher, the priority of the creating symmetrical battles "allies vs allies" and "axis vs axis" has been temporarily increased.

 

Please leave feedback!

[BrassWolf 1,861]

Stona, with all respect and love, but post is about "match maker ballance" not a gameplay

Edited March 28, 2019 by BrassWolf

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

Interesting idea I guess, anything is worth trying out at least once.

[Stona_WT 72,761]

17 minutes ago, BrassWolf said:

Stona, with all respect and love, but post is about "match maker ballance" not a gameplay

 

What do you mean?

[R1seTW 175]

@Stona please, make the same conditions for props!?

Spoiler

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by R1seTW

[KnightsCross20@psn 3,636]

I guess as a temp fix until more aircraft round out the higher tiers? Not sure about everyone’s take on that. Fighting against ones own nation is not always a good thing. 

But if it helps queue times...

[willcliff 116]

Symmetrical battles seem like they would get boring and make a large portion of the playerbase unhappy. Imagine a team of F-86F-2's and F-100's vs. a team of  F-86F-2's and F-100's.

Instead of creating stale gameplay there are other solutions tha could also balance, while keeping the somewhat historical feel.

- Remove R2Y2's bomber spawn

- T-2K to 10.3

- Sea Hawk Mk. 100 to 8.0

- 262C1A, F-80C, F2H to 7.7

I feel that these for a start would be better than fighting "Symmetrical Battles".

[BlackFlagger 199]

This should change, I do not have a problem with unrealistic match ups in either air rb or ground rb, for example I do not care if the japanese /italians fight the germans or if the british fight the americans, for me that is not an issue. My issue is with mixed battles where the teams are mirrored, I do not like for example at 9.0 / 9.3 getting japan vs japan or germany vs germany, we are already fighting other sabers and fighting the exact plane / tank you're playing is a pain, example: f40 vs f40, if you got the same plane on your 6 you're pretty much dead unless he's a really bad pilot where as if you're engaged by an f2 or cl13 at least there's a slight difference between the planes that can be exploited. At lest with unrealistic match up you know you're not fighting your own vehicle. 

           If number of people playing is an issue why not have smaller matches ? For example in tank simulator I get huge maps like volokolamsk in 5vs5 matches, If its works there why not in rb tank or planes ?

 

In conclusion, I don't mind if axis are fighting axis or allies fighting allies as long as the teams have different nations: british vs american is fine but brit, american vs brit, american is not fine and same goes for the axis.

Edited March 28, 2019 by BlackFlagger

[Stona_WT 72,761]

1 minute ago, *KnightsCross20 said:

I guess as a temp fix until more aircraft round out the higher tiers? Not sure about everyone’s take on that. Fighting against ones own nation is not always a good thing. 

But if it helps queue times...

More or less, that's the idea. Temporary solution for some imbalance.

I can agree that for some people it can lower the immersion, but at the end of the day, we decided to try it.

4 minutes ago, R1seTW said:

@Stona please, make the same conditions for props!?

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IMHO props do not need it (at least not on same level as jets) due to fact, that each nation got a nice number of various aircraft.

[R1seTW 175]

2 minutes ago, Stona said:

IMHO props do not need it (at least not on same level as jets) due to fact, that each nation got a nice number of various aircraft. 

At the moment, the axis props win much more often than allied planes in BR 3.7-6.0.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,603]

4 minutes ago, R1seTW said:

At the moment, the axis props win much more often than allied planes in BR 3.7-6.0.

 

That is primarily a player issue as has been discussed endlessly in other parts of the forum

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

27 minutes ago, Stona said:

IMHO props do not need it (at least not on same level as jets) due to fact, that each nation got a nice number of various aircraft.

Props kinda do or at least should have the option to play in these sorts of games. 

 

Aircraft variety is definitely there. 

 

But in a mode with bright red markers better than modern AI IFF technology, it lends a hideous advantage to anything with good climb rate vs the opposition, which all Bf-109s, C.202s, C.205s, J2Ms, Ki-84s, and G.55/56s have. Meanwhile the most common Allied planes have rather lackluster climb rates and routinely get stomped. 

 

Due to shared spotting mechanics, when one guy spots a Bf-109 above the rest of the team, they all do. All it takes is one guy to suddenly dive away in a panic, after that its herd mentality and the game is lost unless the Bf-109s fly really, really badly. 

 

Likewise, the simple ability of markers being able to appear in directions the player is not explicitly looking at also gives an unrealistic advantage to maneuverability, as the markers almost totally throw away the element of surprise. 

 

The combination of climb rate and maneuverability is precisely why Italian and Japanese KDRs and WRs are through the roof at most prop BRs.

 

Lack of the skew towards climb & turn is also why the Markerless RB EC test we had several months ago was such a godsend. Not only were maps not predictable in how people flew, but suddenly it was readily possible for a slower climbing but overall faster plane to surprise and bag a better turner before they could react. I flew my Fw-190D-12 a lot in that event and shot down SO MANY Bearcats, La-9s, Mk22 Spitfires, Tempest MkIIs, and other superprop level planes.

 

So maybe it would be worth experimenting with a Markerless EC setup or a few setups for jets to see what happens. I could suggest 6.0-7.0, 7.3-8.3, 8.7-9.3, and 9.7-10.0 as good brackets. Would we still see the extreme imbalance without handholds of markers and missile lock warnings? Only one way to find out. Because iirc there hasn’t been a Markerless RB EC match with jets at all, or if there was it was well before my time playing this game.

 

FYI I’m not trying to derail things here. I just have serious doubts that jets will ever be balanced with the way the gameplay itself is set up in current Air RB. Smallish maps + markers giving huge advantages to better climbers + the ability to black out & lose control making maneuverablility almost a non factor just doesn’t seem to be a recipe that can ever lead to balance.

Edited March 28, 2019 by MH4UAstragon

[R1seTW 175]

4 minutes ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

That is primarily a player issue as has been discussed endlessly in other parts of the forum 

It can not be a problem of one player, because it is experienced by absolutely everyone who plays in air RB without a squad on planes of different nations.

[BlackFlagger 199]

13 minutes ago, R1seTW said:

At the moment, the axis props win much more often than allied planes in BR 3.7-6.0.

Allied planes are fine, the players need to do better. Sideclimb and play it right, I'm not an amazing pilot, I don't have 5 to 1 or 8 to 1 k/d but I can still kill most of the axis team from time to time.

Maybe try flying in a 4 man squad, it for sure will increase your chances of winning if you guys play right and climb.

Edited March 28, 2019 by BlackFlagger

[Crylia 200]

I know a better solution, instead of giving only one nation a top jet, give other nations equally good jets.

[R1seTW 175]

5 minutes ago, BlackFlagger said:

Allied planes are fine

Before you tell me stories, look at my statistics in the game.

Edited March 28, 2019 by R1seTW

[Crylia 200]

4 minutes ago, R1seTW said:

It can not be a problem of one player, because it is experienced by absolutely everyone who plays in air RB without a squad on planes of different nations.

It is, i other nations than axis alot in air rb to see how they do, most of the time im the only one alive while im still climbing up to 5-6k because every one is rushing and the p47 crash into the ground like always

[Stavroforos 15,367]

Maybe try having balanced vehicles rather than creating artificial balance with this. 

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

3 minutes ago, Crylia said:

I know a better solution, instead of giving only one nation a top jet, give other nations equally good jets.

But as the T-2 is already here, that would mean uptiering the T-2 to 11.3 so it only fights itself until proper competition gets added for it.

[Crylia 200]

Just now, MH4UAstragon said:

But as the T-2 is already here, that would mean uptiering the T-2 to 11.3 so it only fights itself until proper competition gets added for it.

No, i mean with an update. So that we dont get only one op vehicle for only one nation per update

[BlackFlagger 199]

6 minutes ago, Crylia said:

I know a better solution, instead of giving only one nation a top jet, give other nations equally good jets.

This will probably come with the next patch, its not the first time when this is happening, every nation has / had flavor of the month vehicles, it was the same last patch when I was playing cl13 and I was fighting allied teams that were basically 50% mig19s and f100s, T2 is indeed better that those two however its still a smaller gap than german mig15 / cl13 vs f100 /mig19 and that is mostly what we got last patch for top tie germany /japan. 

     M1 abrams was the same story, and then we got 2a4, t80 etc and things are more balanced now, I know it might not be pleasant using f100 vs t2 but if its really that bad you can just switch to something else until things get better. I agree with you and I would like it to be more balanced but you also have to understand they dont have resources to add like 50 top tier vehicles in an update.

Edited March 28, 2019 by BlackFlagger

[KnightsCross20@psn 3,636]

6 minutes ago, Crylia said:

I know a better solution, instead of giving only one nation a top jet, give other nations equally good jets.

 

2 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

But as the T-2 is already here, that would mean uptiering the T-2 to 11.3 so it only fights itself until proper competition gets added for it.

Well this is the temp fix until those other jets can come into play.

GJ shot itself in the foot here. Multiple jets, for each nation should have been introduced together. Sort of a ‘Jet Age’ patch. The drips and drabs intro of higher tier planes is not doing the game any justice. 

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

Just now, *KnightsCross20 said:

 

Well this is the temp fix until those other jets can come into play.

GJ shot itself in the foot here. Multiple jets, for each nation should have been introduced together. Sort of a ‘Jet Age’ patch. The drips and drabs intro of higher tier planes is not doing the game any justice. 

A lot of new additions would be better off released in groups. New layers of MBTs, SAM anti-airs, new top tier supersonic jets, etc.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,603]

16 minutes ago, R1seTW said:

It can not be a problem of one player, because it is experienced by absolutely everyone who plays in air RB without a squad on planes of different nations.

 

I'm saying it's a player issue as a whole, I wasn't singling you or anyone one person out specifically.

 

I've played quite a few rounds over the last few days as USA or British where the Allied team had a good amount of fighters and they played with a head on their shoulders, Axis teams got completely stomped.

[SuperDuperOtter 655]

48 minutes ago, Stona said:

 

What do you mean?

 

I think he means it's a modification of the match maker intended to produce more balanced matches. Rather than a gameplay modification intended to produce a more balanced meta. Or rather than an aircraft modification intended to produce a better balance between aircrafts.

 

And that your original post sorta implies a gameplay balance improvement rather than a MM balance improvement.