Balance improvements in Aircraft Realistic Battles

[slipnslyde 913]

On 03/06/2019 at 15:31, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

I still much prefer to engage Me 264's over Ju 288C's, but man, I'm getting sick of having most matches against Germany ending in hunting down a hiding bomber.

 

I agree they are both not fun to hunt down, especially if they climb to the moon.

The good news is that most of the time Allies get absolutely slaughtered by Axis, so you won't be alive to worry about it

 

[druidh58 656]

On 03/06/2019 at 14:31, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

The other night I was purposely trying to reach the Me 264's before they dropped their bombloads. Clean P-61 basically has to stall climb (with airspawn) on most maps to even try to get a shot on them, Bf 109 F-4 (USA Premium) can't reach them, P-38G with airspawn can't really reach them, etc. 

 

It's not that they're unkillable, though they are quite tanky, but you can't even get to them. On many maps the Allies simply don't have much of anything that can climb to altitude fast enough, and like you said, after dropping their bombload those Me 264's are up at 6-7km.

 

I still much prefer to engage Me 264's over Ju 288C's, but man, I'm getting sick of having most matches against Germany ending in hunting down a hiding bomber.

I caught one in a P47 last night before he got to bomb drop. He about turned and disconnected just as I started hitting him. Poof! Disappeared. Trying to avoid repair costs? 

[Diabel_Z_Piekla 694]

1 hour ago, druidh58 said:

I caught one in a P47 last night before he got to bomb drop. He about turned and disconnected just as I started hitting him. Poof! Disappeared. Trying to avoid repair costs? 

Or he was kicked off from the server.

[druidh58 656]

14 hours ago, Diabel_Z_Piekla said:

Or he was kicked off from the server.

Yep. Just that the timing seemed so fortunate. 

[Smoke_EaterVFF@psn 22]

On 28/03/2019 at 08:04, Stona said:

 

In order to improve balance in aircraft Realistic Battles  for vehicles of BR 7.7 and higher, the priority of the creating symmetrical battles "allies vs allies" and "axis vs axis" has been temporarily increased.

 

Please leave feedback!

here some feedback get rid of this it sucks i end up waiting for 5mins just to get a game because ppl don't want to fly these br's cause of this. A large base of the community doesn't want to fight the same jet. I pefer the older matchmaking. Pls change it back

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,603]

What, are you saying you don't enjoy Sabre vs Sabre combat?

[Smoke_EaterVFF@psn 22]

9 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

What, are you saying you don't enjoy Sabre vs Sabre combat?

not really

[Diabel_Z_Piekla 694]

7 hours ago, *darkestsoul00 said:

not really

Cheer up! It's temporary solution so after 6 years they'll change that. Or when they release RB EC 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Diabel_Z_Piekla

[Smoke_EaterVFF@psn 22]

39 minutes ago, Diabel_Z_Piekla said:

Cheer up! It's temporary solution so after 6 years they'll change that. Or when they release RB EC 

isn't that the truth

[slipnslyde 913]

7 hours ago, *darkestsoul00 said:

isn't that the truth

 

Yeah, 99.9% of players beg for RB EC, so naturally Gaijin says 'no'.

[Yukichi 1,027]

Quote

There were no direct promises of BR before 1.89. Indeed we did say they would be reviewed, but after the major economical changes which drastically changed the playing field. It was never certain for sure they would come before 1.89.  

@Smin1080p Just why... For me the thread for BR was just a lie. Is this thread was just here to calm down people?

 

You and the team keep saying that, new contents will contribute to the decompression since the introduction of modern tank, but there are still no big change, we still have a massive balance problem at high tier and that why Gaijin literaly say that miroir match are here only as "temporary band aid".

When we come to this kind of situation (Gaijin own situation), maybe just maybe it's time to slow down, sit, and talk about how to make the game fun again for everyone.

 

Gaijin you put yourself in this situation

The community asking litteraly for years some decompression. We asking news mode , we asking new balance, we asking to have fun in any type of plane, we suggest new br system/rework etc. Yet no answer  and no clearly explanation for why it wont work.

• We don't need new content to get decompression : We have already suggest some BR change. Some people even create some google docs for decompression. News contents only expand the BR  range not decompression them.

• Is it too much to ask Gaijin to not introduce some game breaker/changer without counterpart or equivalent (as ex: first introduction of Helicopter, first introduction of SPAA, first introduction of supersonic . Can we pls not based this game on the frustation of the player? Can we please not have to wait another 3 months when you litteraly break the little balance that we still have? (hello T-2)

• Can gaijin do something about MM? Miroir match, 1.0 +/- Br spread, true matchmaking at 8.0.

• Or new game mode? We don't have anymore event on EC mode, or any test with the markless EC. EC at least can "probably" fix the excuse of queue times, as you can leave or rejoin when you want (+ give a real purpose of RP/SL% boost).

 

So today is it right to no expect nothing from Gaijin that will literally change the game for us? Because sorry @Smin1080p when you even say

Quote

we really would suggest that everyone should try the mode and see for themselves,

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6179-video-world-war-has-begun-soldiers-mobilization-en

We expected too much about WWM and now we are a bit disappointed.

 

Even the event of D-Day is a simple match on map Normandy. No EC, just a locked map in AB,RB,SB.

Can we expect one day to have a rework or a total overhaul for Air RB, something which will let us rediscover the game for Air players?

Can someone tell us about the futur of this game, can someone tell us about futur content (and i don't speak about vehicule but about mechanics and game mode)

@Tovarish_kapitan did it for the fleet, so when this kind of thread will come for us, AIR players?

Should we have to wait to reach mach 2 planes on little map like korean (for jet) to do suddenly realise there is a problem?

(Don't get me wrong korea is a good map, for props but for jet? Match ends between 5-10 mins if no one space climb. What is the point to use the maximum fuel on plane without afterbuner with theses kind of maps?)

 

 

My rant of the today, don't pay attention of my saltyness. pls

(and as usual sorry the bad english)

Edited June 10, 2019 by Yukichi

[slipnslyde 913]

It was all so much better 2-3 patches ago before all the T6 jets destabilized and ruined everything.

Since then we've had every variant

1. Axis vs Allies: and Allied teams literally disappeared.

2. Axis vs Axis, Allies vs Allies: and was bad for Axis because Mig 15biz and Mig 17 vs T2K and Mig 19 no thanks, but actually kind of fun for Allies because hunt F100s in F2 Sabre, sure no problem good challenge.

3. Mixed: and is terrible for everyone except T2K and Mig 19.

 

IMO Allies vs Allies was the only fun combination in the past month. As much as I cringe to say that.

 

Maybe they should offer a paid option where T6 just disappears. LOL

(Edit: Yes that's a joke! I wouldn't actually pay for that)

 

I would actually pay for an off the shelf version of the game, fully unlocked, no BS vehicle spading or unnecessarily drawn out grinding, without all the intentionally designed frustrations, but instead with fair MM and good balancing, in an RB EC game mode

 

And I dare say such a game might actually make it on the E sports radar. Now wouldn't THAT be cool!

Edited June 6, 2019 by slipnslyde

[Diabel_Z_Piekla 694]

The best thing about this thread is that no one from Gaijin even care what is written here. Same thing as in:

#1

#2

#3

And more...

 

Only thing that can force them to listen us is to cut off the money valve. But that's realistically impossible.

[_Kolonel_Klink_ 390]

So it appears that the only time you will get an Axis vs Allies match is one the english channel map. Except there's never any Japanese or Americans, just Germany/Italy vs UK/France. Must be part of a clever plan by Gaijin to make people like the map, lol.

 

It's better than Axis vs Axis with T2's clubbing everything, but I'd still like to face the allies again.

 

In fact, I won't be buying gold, premium, or bundles until top tier jet balance is un-*****

[Diabel_Z_Piekla 694]

On 09/06/2019 at 05:46, _Kolonel_Klink_ said:

So it appears that the only time you will get an Axis vs Allies match is one the english channel map. Except there's never any Japanese or Americans, just Germany/Italy vs UK/France. Must be part of a clever plan by Gaijin to make people like the map, lol.

 

It's better than Axis vs Axis with T2's clubbing everything, but I'd still like to face the allies again.

 

In fact, I won't be buying gold, premium, or bundles until top tier jet balance is un-*****

Boulogne-Sur-Mer is fine map. I like it.

I had a US-japan battle two days ago on that map with Port Moresby.

[Yukichi 1,027]

I asked him to post it on the suggestion forum so we can have a discussion or we can debate. Maybe he will do it maybe he won't. (but i hope he will)

 

Gaijin you want a good suggestion about balance aircraft RB, then please sincerely, take a look at this post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/c0ij8k/the_complete_air_tech_tree_rework_revision_2/

 

This man is an exemple about what your community can produce with idea, to balance the game. To have maybe a solution, to fix some issues.

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Yukichi

[AussieAussieAusi 5]

I have had a heap of games lately of axis vs allies which is great but, i have had repeated games where the allies are 9.0 max and the axis team of course has a mix of 10's. 

 

Come on WTF !!!

[Diabel_Z_Piekla 694]

41 minutes ago, AussieAussieAusi said:

I have had a heap of games lately of axis vs allies which is great but, i have had repeated games where the allies are 9.0 max and the axis team of course has a mix of 10's. 

 

Come on WTF !!!

Balance - Germany suffer 

[English_Ham 417]

I think that in order to maintain balance, the allies should be nerfed a little bit. i was flying germany yesterday and we lost to the allies. I mean how how long can this go on? i was flying axis for god sake. im not playing anymore until something is done about this.

 

I hope you will seriously consider nerfing the allied a bit. i suffered that match.

[CASTRO_MC 1]

buanas compañia tal vez sea un simple consumidor pero me gustaría que hicieran algo con los británicos ya que se ve muy poca su participación empezando desde 8.0 donde el warrior carece de frecuencia de tiro,estabilizador y su corto rango de misil que solo alcanza 2 kilómetros. también me gustaría que hicieran algo con los chieftain mk ya que no tienen mucha potencia de motor porque se atascan demasiado y muy poco participan en especial en los mapas grandes.

de ante mano gracias por su tiempo y espero su opinión 

[Diabel_Z_Piekla 694]

On 07/08/2019 at 19:02, CASTRO_MC said:

buanas compañia tal vez sea un simple consumidor pero me gustaría que hicieran algo con los británicos ya que se ve muy poca su participación empezando desde 8.0 donde el warrior carece de frecuencia de tiro,estabilizador y su corto rango de misil que solo alcanza 2 kilómetros. también me gustaría que hicieran algo con los chieftain mk ya que no tienen mucha potencia de motor porque se atascan demasiado y muy poco participan en especial en los mapas grandes.

de ante mano gracias por su tiempo y espero su opinión 

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition 

[furiosinge 2,453]

Guys, what a bout fixing hispano cannons? they simply do not work and gives a huge disadvantage to the entire british tree, with clear imbalance towards german/italian weaponry.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by furiosinge

[Razgriz21400 126]

19 hours ago, furiosinge said:

Guys, what a bout fixing hispano cannons? they simply do not work and gives a huge disadvantage to the entire british tree, with clear imbalance towards german/italian weaponry.

 

I wouldn’t count on it, they have been a recurring problem for years and it hasn’t been addressed. Plus for some reason gaijin has practice shells in the stock belts even though planes going into combat, like in WT, would not have practice shells 

[Geyser_Soze 412]

So now that the Mig21 and F4 are coming, maybe we can finally merge the two high tier battles queues back into one. Last night i could fly my  Mig15ish and my FJ4 without too much wait time. But when i tried to get to battle in my G91 it just took forever high tier jets need a unified queue after 1.91 

[_Kolonel_Klink_ 390]

I really can't comprehend why The MiG-21 and F4 (and also the T-2) haven't/won't be placed at a BR where they will face even competition. The 9.0, 9.3 and 9.7 jets will be food for planes that are much more advanced.

 

Playing the underdog can be fun, but getting annihilated by vastly superior aircraft isn't. Even right now, where we have aircraft at 8.7, 9.0, and 9.7 that potentially can all be in the same match together

 

So I say again, the T-2, F-4 and MiG-21 should be placed at a BR where they face even competition. Even if that means symmetrical matchmaking (but only for the very very top tier stuff), there is no need to drag EVERY aircraft from 7.7 upwards into symmetrical battles when the problem lies at the top end of town.

 

Despite people screaming for historical accuracy, facing other nations' aircraft from the same era with similar performance (even if they never saw service against each other) is much much more interesting than fighting another MiG-15 in your own MiG-15. People may argue that it is balanced, and the only factor is the pilots (oh and the pay to play elements like crew skills) - but there's just one big problem... It's boring to face off against the same plane you are flying.

 

Therein lies the problem with symmetrical matchmaking - facing your own nations' plane while also flying it is not a fun experience.

 

However, facing other nations' planes of similar performance at the same battle rating is much more interesting. The reason is because while the battle rating may be the same, each aircraft requires a different playstyle and tactics. This means that there is more variety in engagements.

 

Now we enter the whole Axis vs. Allies dilemma. On the surface, it appears that Allied pilots are happier with symmetrical matchmaking because they get a 'fairer' match up than facing off against supposedly superior Axis forces (when it's 9.0 vs 9.0), and don't have to deal with the T-2, MiG-19, or G.91 YS. Meanwhile, Axis jet queue times are abysmal because people in 9.0 jets DO have to go up against T-2's, MiG-19's, and the G.91 YS. It's a problem, because they are superior aircraft and in my opinion shouldn't be anywhere near the 8.7/9.0 jets.

 

So now we get to the real core of the problem - Other nations not getting equal performers at the same time as another nation. Instead, we get leapfrogging. Japan gets the T-2, the undisputed top dog. No other nation has an equivalent, yet. Not all nations have a 9.7 jet. Not all nations have a 10.0 jet.

 

Italy gets the G.91 YS, but Germany and Russia get a MiG-19, USA has the F-100D. Sure, the MiG and F-100 are probably superior to the G.91 YS, but they are close, and pilot skill makes a difference. The T-2 remains a problem. Japan and Britain have nothing at 9.7 yet.

 

I suspect the real reason we have symmetrical matchmaking is because the T-2 wreaking havoc on 9.0's clearly highlights the blatant inadequacies of the battle rating system, and highlights the fact that not all nations have a 9.7 or 10.0 jet available.

 

Setting Air RB to Axis vs Axis and Allies vs Allies at 7.7 above is probably the laziest attempt at hiding a problem I have ever seen, when the real solution is in plain sight and by all rights should not be difficult to implement.

 

Enough negativity now, I now want to talk about the most FUN I've ever had in war thunder.

 

March 12-28, 2019. Update 1.87 "Locked On" - Some new supersonic aircraft and the introduction of air-to air missiles. Pandemonium.

 

Despite the T-2 being a problem to 9.0 jets, when there is fresh content for people to play, and the balance is acceptable, the game is fun. Everyone was learning how to use AIM-9B's and fly their new aircraft, and it was a good time for people new to jets to get into the mix, as the skill level of pilots varied greatly. Those that had experience already surely had a great time. I myself was quite happy with buying the G.91 R/4  (an expensive purchase at $75 AUD) and sending an AIM-9B into cocky pilots of supersonic aircraft (including some T-2s). The G.91 YS was great fun as well.

 

More to the point, I still had premium time and I made a few million SL and wasn't worried at all about repair costs and people running away from combat to avoid paying for repairs.

 

In short, it was fun. There were problems. There will always be problems. But the level of complaining was unwarranted. The T-2 definitely needed to be on its own, facing itself, until it had a clear competitor. It needed a BR increase to keep it away from 9.0 jets. Doing so would have solved the majority of perceived balance problems in top tier jets. 9.7's being superior to 9.0's in a big way, but also being food for the T-2 specifically, was also a problem, but this time it is of course caused by battle rating compression.

 

Anyway, the whole point of this post is to say this:

 

Until Gaijin remove symmetrical matchmaking in Air RB, I will not support the game financially. I have let my premium expire and haven't purchased any packs or eagles. I will not do so until symmetrical matchmaking is removed.

 

Some battle rating decompression would also be nice.

 

Oh, and it's been six months of symmetrical battles already, and so far the only thing that has been done is... add more powercreep jets at a BR of 10.0