Balance improvements in Aircraft Realistic Battles

[AngelPG2100 319]

On 23/03/2022 at 20:24, mixu83 said:

 

LOL, this is the true heart of fighter only society:

And if deathmatch only players would actually bother to do teamwork with bombers and attackers instead of "Mine, all Mine" -attitude we would have this:

Truer words have never been spoken do clearly

[Nick_Cloud 1,034]

Well, to be honest... MM is all over the place. 

The "bomber" problem is not a problem... it starts being a problem when you add strike fighters in.

Also, the "help the bomber thing" ... it doesn't give neither RP nor SL ...aka is reasonless for someone that grinds ^anything^ to do it. 

Moreover, the way the game is designed... let's say i cover a bomber (that spawns some km ahead of me and some km above me...to add) , enemy fighter(s) see me... if it's one , it will go for the other bomber that is not covered....else they (plural) will come for both of us resulting in both the bomber and me blown or just the bomber blown (assuming i win a 1v1 scenario, because if more than 2 possibly they will zerg me and the other(s) goes to bomber... add missile tiers and it's pretty much impossible).

Also, you need to have spare fighters to do that effectively... if half the team is strikers...good luck with that.

 

To counter the whole issue, you'll need something like "the flight of swallows " event, where fighters cover bombers, which bombers had to get to bombing point while the opponent tries to intercept the flight. That being said you had 20 (i don't remember the number, i just say a number along the lines i believe to be) Ai bombers, 10 fighters one side another 10 to the other (making up numbers, i don't remember exactly) ... 

It's not like random RB numbers . Also there is an objective...

 

Similarly, in WW mode, they gave us ...dogfight mode... and if i remember a type of strike missions.

 

Current RB, is not where you can fight in "type" of missions. The mission adjusts accordingly to the numbers... and ofc the BR. Since you get the +1-1 BR in MM, it means not all vehicles in the game are viable to the same amount...The higher you go , the bigger the miss match since missiles make the game (for example, look at Vautour  at 9.0, can meet up to 10.0 and can't really avoid AIM-9B if launched well in its envelope... and the fighter isn't really worried about exposing itself, a 9.7 can come with 1200 launch fly away...that simple...).

 

So, it's not about the "deathmatch" people... or tree hugging GPs... for that matter. It's 1 game, you can win both ways... and everyone does his own thing. People playing fighters... to dogfight, others play strikers/bombers to GP. Effectively, when the ones objective is to ... send you to hangar... and your objective is...to focus elsewhere... then yes, to hangar you will go . See it like, carnivore vs herbivore ... the herbivore can do stuff... sometimes, but only when actually worries about carnivores...if it just stays there and feeds with a pack of lions around it, yeah... nature happens. Sure, the "deathmatch people" get more RP the more planes they get and bombers/strikers are a good way to "farm" points...other than something it will send them to hangar instead, but if anything, since they are playable units (strikers/bombers) should have a use... Someone can say GFs, well yes...but you have to play a tank first, not all people are to tanks and even some tankers are not to planes... So, they have to "play" somewhere... but you can't ask other people to play around what YOU like either (cover me, cover me, cover me)... Practically both sides are equally right and wrong... Giving extra game modes around role is a viable option, while retaining the random battles for them they like them.

 

I do believe they have to make more modes, like what they try with Heli PvE. Doesn't have to be PvE, either... make one like the 262 event... 

Also decompression would effectively help strikers and bombers... the majority of the time they get shafted with the slightest uptier.  Look at more modern planes...Su-7s, F-105s ...a slight uptier doesn't hurt them much, or at all. Go to +1 BR and things change dramatically to the point leaving the game is a viable option...you won't really play anyway.

Mix all that with the repair costs (i still can't understand some of them, while some others ...say 105D... happened because of other circumstances like having airspawn since you standard had a base bombed and then A-A, or go for a second run... ), then you get to a boring and unsatisfying experience...

 

Personally i would like to see a patch that revolves around balancing, game modes ... that kind of stuff.., but with logic behind it, not around " variety" an excuse that is not really answer when parts of the game are not really viable and in the end doesn't create fun about either side of players (deathmatchers hate to be in a team with all bombers and strikers, bombers hate that are RP/SL prey...).

Also BR, MM ,RP, SL, repairs balancing is a must... and yes there was a repair price patch... but it ahs to go faster, even reset the prices for all to a logical level...

Edited March 27, 2022 by CloudNick

[The_29er 654]

Bring the F-104J and Chinese G down to 10.3 just like the other J/P equipped starfighters.  

No flares is such a disaster.  

Either:

A) Give them both flares

OR

B) Move them down to 10.3

[Loofah 3,250]

Wyvern to 5.0 - it's similar to Fw 190 F8, only better in almost every way (OK, it turns and rolls a bit worse).

Premium J2M5 to 5.0 - it turns great, has excellent acceleration, power to weight, climb and armanent - ammo count is low, but 900m/s 1-shot cannons are super-deadly and it can operate at high altitude, outperforming almost everyone non-USA around 6,5-7km

Ki-44-II - at 4.0 it would do just fine with its excellent turn, climb, v. good armanent, quite decent speed and v. good dive/high speed capability, it's a seal-clubber's plane of choice for a reason
J2M2 to 4.7 - it has overwhelming climb, good speed, OK armanent and is excellent dogfighter, basically it can fly circles around Bf 109 G6, but I'd place it at same BR because I'm nice
XP-50 to 4.7  - at 4.0 it outperforms Bf 109 F4 in every way AND it has an airspawn. Vs Bf 109 G6 it would still have an advantage, but it would be a bit less lopsided because Bf 109 g6 doesn't cook itself on hot maps
P-51-D10 - it's almost as good as D30, and way better than 4.3 P-51 so 4.7

Re.2005 - 5.3, has no reason to be 5.7

G.55 S1 - 4.7 has no reason to be 5.0
G.55 s - same as above
C.205N2 - way too slow to be 4.7, should be 4.3
C.205S3 - 4.3 would be OK for it

B18B - it's a bomber, yet it's an excellent fighter too should be at least  4.0, so fighters have a CHANCE to catch it. German planes below 4.0 can't really catch it and lack armanent to shoot it down, cause it's really tanky.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Loofah

[Ghostmaxi 873]

Me 410 B-6/R3 to 4.0 and infront of the Do 335 A-1 and the Do 335 A-0 behind the A-1

And the 4x Me 410s which are packed together taken appart and fill the newly made hole, to have the strike aircraft in one line.

The Me 410 B-6/R3 is as fast or even slower than the other Me 410s and has like the /U4 only the ability to carry its 2x Mk 103 with 120 rpg but no bombs, otherwise it is the same as the other Me 410 which reach from 3.0 to 4.7 (4.7 beeing the B series wich are faster the B-6 is 420 kmph like the A series)

Do 217 J-2 to 2.0 like the J-1 is the only differences are the white camo and the useless radar.

Do 217 N-1 and N-2 to 2.3 the only difference is stronger and heavyer engines, and Mg FF/M replaced by heavyer Mg 151/20 resulting in minimal speed and climb increase but actually flyes worse because its heavyer.

And the N-2 even replaces the useless bombload of 50 kg bombs and the only 2x Mg 131 with useless 4x Mg 151/20 in Schräge Musik.

And place them in front of Ju 88 C-6 behind the other Do 217 at rank II

And Bf 110 C-6 to 2.3 it cant carry bombs, has 4x Mg 17 and 1x Mk 101, is slower and has less armor than the other 3.0 Bf 110s and the armarment is weaker than the Hs 129 B-2 which is at 2.7. The Mk 101 is slower and has only 60 rounds compared to the Mk 103 and the Hs 129 has 2x Mg 17 and 2x Mg 151/20.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Ghostmaxi

[BlackberryAvar 774]

7 hours ago, Ghostmaxi said:

Me 410 B-6/R3 to 4.0 and infront of the Do 335 A-1 and the Do 335 A-0 behind the A-1

 

Let's not forget the rest going down 1 BR step lest the B-6/R3 be lower than the B-1/U2.

[Ghostmaxi 873]

6 minutes ago, BlackberryAvar said:

 

Let's not forget the rest going down 1 BR step lest the B-6/R3 be lower than the B-1/U2.

oh you mean from 4.3 to 4.0? I first thought you ment 4.3 to 3.3, i dont know perhaps?

[BlackberryAvar 774]

4.3 to 4.0 yes. 

 

But the 3.0 one can stay 3.0, it doesn't need to go down any further. The back guns + armament + performance make it a good plane for that BR. 

[Ghostmaxi 873]

3 hours ago, BlackberryAvar said:

4.3 to 4.0 yes. 

 

But the 3.0 one can stay 3.0, it doesn't need to go down any further. The back guns + armament + performance make it a good plane for that BR. 

Yes absolutly, its actally one of my fav planes, i love the 5 cm Bk 5.

[BlackberryAvar 774]

The more I test the F4U-4 in duels and air RB, the more I think gaijin's moving it to 4.7 was a horrendous idea.

 

This plane outturns late-model 109s at high speed and hangs on its flaps forever when the 109s try to use their superior MER and stall it out. Plus if it doesn't like the way the dogfight is going it can nose down and get away from anything that isn't an La-7. And if that wasn't enough, it has 400 rpg .50 cals + tracer belts, plus decent climbrate for a USA fighter and an extra super stage over the F4U-4B to boot....

 

Sure the MER isn't great but the .50 cals make sure that most planes that try energy fighting it end up energy dying.

[Loofah 3,250]

15 hours ago, BlackberryAvar said:

The more I test the F4U-4 in duels and air RB, the more I think gaijin's moving it to 4.7 was a horrendous idea.

 

This plane outturns late-model 109s at high speed and hangs on its flaps forever when the 109s try to use their superior MER and stall it out. Plus if it doesn't like the way the dogfight is going it can nose down and get away from anything that isn't an La-7. And if that wasn't enough, it has 400 rpg .50 cals + tracer belts, plus decent climbrate for a USA fighter and an extra super stage over the F4U-4B to boot....

 

Sure the MER isn't great but the .50 cals make sure that most planes that try energy fighting it end up energy dying.

 

It was v. v. good at 5.0, it's blatantly OP at 4.7, especially since Germans don't get any planes with good performance until 5.3 Fw 190 D9 which can't maneuver really, then only at 5.7 anything really decent (k4) shows up.

 

Also XP-55 is an OP broken joke at 4.0, C.205 S3 has nothing on it, Bf 109 G6 can only slightly outclimb it, and Fw 190 can only die. Perfect balance.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Loofah

[BlackberryAvar 774]

I only played a few games in it when it was 5.0, didn't test the FM and had very poor stats in it due to playing like a potato. It was only after the BR change that I became interested in flying the plane.

 

3 hours ago, Loofah said:

It was v. v. good at 5.0, it's blatantly OP at 4.7, especially since Germans don't get any planes with good performance until 5.3 Fw 190 D9 which can't maneuver really, then only at 5.7 anything really decent (k4) shows up.

 

190 D-9 can stall out the F4U-4 from the merge but it realistically gets only one shot at the F4U-4 as it's coming down. If it misses that shot it probably dies. The D-9 has such good energy retention that it will be forced out in front in most scissors / descending spirals. Trying to pull away just gets the F4U spraying it down & running away exposes it to more .50 cals.

 

The 109 G-14 can beat the F4U-4 from the merge if it does a spiral turn and F4U-4 is dumb enough to follow. After a few turns F4U will be bled of speed and 109 can get the kill. Problem is this takes a long time to do and if the F4U doesn't like what's happening, it can leave without getting shot in the first turn or two.

 

So yeah the first option germany gets to deal with this corsair is probably the K-4.

[Loofah 3,250]

17 hours ago, BlackberryAvar said:

I only played a few games in it when it was 5.0, didn't test the FM and had very poor stats in it due to playing like a potato. It was only after the BR change that I became interested in flying the plane.

 

 

190 D-9 can stall out the F4U-4 from the merge but it realistically gets only one shot at the F4U-4 as it's coming down. If it misses that shot it probably dies. The D-9 has such good energy retention that it will be forced out in front in most scissors / descending spirals. Trying to pull away just gets the F4U spraying it down & running away exposes it to more .50 cals.

 

The 109 G-14 can beat the F4U-4 from the merge if it does a spiral turn and F4U-4 is dumb enough to follow. After a few turns F4U will be bled of speed and 109 can get the kill. Problem is this takes a long time to do and if the F4U doesn't like what's happening, it can leave without getting shot in the first turn or two.

 

So yeah the first option germany gets to deal with this corsair is probably the K-4.

 

BTW is G14 any different than G6? More engine power? Less weight? It's 2 BR "steps" above, so the difference should be pretty damn substantial. Yak-3 is 2 BR steps above La-5F

[BlackberryAvar 774]

The Bf 109 G-14 feels more responsive to the controls in all departments. The climb rate is pretty good, and the WEP lends it a large amount of power for not too much overheating. The only problem is the fuel burn rate on WEP, which almost gets to spitfire levels of fuel consumption.

 

It's a OK plane when compared to other 5.3s. From playing a few other 5.3s here and there I think the Ki-84 ko is the biggest competitor to the G-14, since it turns well and goes almost as fast or faster without being dogged by as much overheating or fuel consumption.

 

I haven't done a speed test but Ki-84 speed and G-14 speed feels pretty close. The bf 109 seems to have a little better MER.

[Loofah 3,250]

4 hours ago, BlackberryAvar said:

The Bf 109 G-14 feels more responsive to the controls in all departments. The climb rate is pretty good, and the WEP lends it a large amount of power for not too much overheating. The only problem is the fuel burn rate on WEP, which almost gets to spitfire levels of fuel consumption.

 

It's a OK plane when compared to other 5.3s. From playing a few other 5.3s here and there I think the Ki-84 ko is the biggest competitor to the G-14, since it turns well and goes almost as fast or faster without being dogged by as much overheating or fuel consumption.

 

I haven't done a speed test but Ki-84 speed and G-14 speed feels pretty close. The bf 109 seems to have a little better MER.

 

 

Well, I've found G6 to be pretty manageable when it comes to overheating. The whole "responsiveness" is interesting since this plane pretty much is the same as G6 airframe wise, so I wonder, what actually makes it better. 

[BlackberryAvar 774]

I'm not sure. It's supposedly faster and climbs better, but the engine is the exact same as G6 now that I checked. It could be a less draggy airframe.

 

Or it could be that gaijin renamed the G6, put it at a higher BR and called it a day.

[Loofah 3,250]

5 minutes ago, BlackberryAvar said:

I'm not sure. It's supposedly faster and climbs better, but the engine is the exact same as G6 now that I checked. It could be a less draggy airframe.

 

Or it could be that gaijin renamed the G6, put it at a higher BR and called it a day.

 

Italian G14 seems like a lot better plane - it's basically K4 without the retractable tailwheel, a bit weaker engine, but with the enlarged, high alt supercharger.  German G14 should go to 5.0 because it is the same draggy G6 airframe with some improvements that aren't really obvious, but I guess it's indeed better, as you mentioned. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Loofah

[BlackberryAvar 774]

High-alt optimization doesn't always = better plane.

 

American teams are so used to facing no opposition that they often don't climb, which means a medium-alt 109 can still succeed. I've been playing the BR recently and the allies play like they haven't faced a competent fighter in 20 games.

 

Edit: Carrying 288 games means giving 288s the win. I don't like that very much.

Edited April 16, 2022 by BlackberryAvar

[Loofah 3,250]

18 hours ago, BlackberryAvar said:

High-alt optimization doesn't always = better plane.

 

American teams are so used to facing no opposition that they often don't climb, which means a medium-alt 109 can still succeed. I've been playing the BR recently and the allies play like they haven't faced a competent fighter in 20 games.

 

Edit: Carrying 288 games means giving 288s the win. I don't like that very much.

 

No, it doesn't, but lower drag airframe does, and being able to squeeze a bit more performance up high is nice, especially since the plane is not really performing worse at lower alt because of that

edit: same speed at 0m, but G14 is a bit faster at 4000m, so one can claim "it makes sense". 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Loofah

[BlackberryAvar 774]

I've been playing a lot of jets lately, because of the whole AF camping situation and... saturation with props I guess. I'd guess I have more than 500 games in every BR range except 5.3-6.3 and after a while it kinda gets boring. Jets is new and I'm bad at it so there's room to improve.

 

But one thing grinds my gears. The sea vixen is obnoxious and should never have been introduced. At the very least, it should be 9.0 just due to outrunning and outclimbing every plane at its BR, with four braindead-easy missiles. Play any non-british plane in 7.7-9.3 and you'll see what I mean.

[Nick_Cloud 1,034]

19 minutes ago, BlackberryAvar said:

I've been playing a lot of jets lately, because of the whole AF camping situation and... saturation with props I guess. I'd guess I have more than 500 games in every BR range except 5.3-6.3 and after a while it kinda gets boring. Jets is new and I'm bad at it so there's room to improve.

 

But one thing grinds my gears. The sea vixen is obnoxious and should never have been introduced. At the very least, it should be 9.0 just due to outrunning and outclimbing every plane at its BR, with four braindead-easy missiles. Play any non-british plane in 7.7-9.3 and you'll see what I mean.

 

I got you...tried B-57 recently. 

[Vedgestable 129]

Fix repair costs

Fix BR compression

[Rutland 6,255]

Whose idea was it to put the A-10A at 9.7 with aim 9L's?

 

Do you think its fair for mig 15's to get missiled from 4 kilometers away with no warning or flares?

[stevehappy321 89]

1 hour ago, Rutland said:

Whose idea was it to put the A-10A at 9.7 with aim 9L's?

 

Do you think its fair for mig 15's to get missiled from 4 kilometers away with no warning or flares?

All you need to do to not die to an A-10 is to see it and gain energy. If you stay at 400kts+ and don't present your full rear end to it, you'll be perfectly fine. R-60s are far superior to the AIM-9Ls at that BR range.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by stevehappy321

[AngelPG2100 319]

17 hours ago, Rutland said:

Whose idea was it to put the A-10A at 9.7 with aim 9L's?

 

Do you think its fair for mig 15's to get missiled from 4 kilometers away with no warning or flares?

A MiG-15 can do circles around an A-10A
It can have UFO missiles that if it can't launch them nothing can be done