Balance improvements in Aircraft Realistic Battles

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,605]

On 04/11/2022 at 05:53, Loofah said:

XP-55 is like Fw 190, only better in every way.

 

Except that at low altitude the XP-55 is slower than every single Fw 190 in the game save for the Fw 190C.

 

On 04/11/2022 at 05:53, Loofah said:

XP-55 to 4.7 or 5.0

 

The XP-55 is good, but it's not that good. It's pretty comparable to the Bf 109 F-4. Better in some aspects, worse in others.

[Loofah 3,250]

2 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

Except that at low altitude the XP-55 is slower than every single Fw 190 in the game save for the Fw 190C.

 

 

The XP-55 is good, but it's not that good. It's pretty comparable to the Bf 109 F-4. Better in some aspects, worse in others.

 

The firepower alone should make it go up. Look at what happens to other planes with great armanent. This one has BR that would be fine if it was armed with 3 .50 cals. Instead it has a gigantic cone of death in front of it, because it's very hard to dodge high velocity cannons (the best in the business) and MGs. XP-55 would do just fine at the same BR as Fw 190 A5, which is 4.7

Edited November 11, 2022 by Loofah

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,605]

5 minutes ago, Loofah said:

Look at what happens to other planes with great armanent.

 

Yeah, they get bumped up to BR's where there's no point in playing them. See F6F-5N, F4U-1c, Yak-9UT, Ki-84 hei, and so on and so forth.

[Loofah 3,250]

39 minutes ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

Yeah, they get bumped up to BR's where there's no point in playing them. See F6F-5N, F4U-1c, Yak-9UT, Ki-84 hei, and so on and so forth.

 

Yes, unlike them, XP-55 would be pretty damn competitive. And armanent really helps, because to dodge those cannons you have to really pull hard as hell  (partially thx to good nose authority) and you're not safe until about 1200m away, because XP-55 has enough ammo to spam at will. 

 

F6F has no redeeming qualities. 

And BTW at 4.7 what is really much better and not US? Yak-9U is good and competitive (maybe worth of going to 5.0 ever since Shvaks became way better than MG151/20 for whatever reason) same for La-7,  190 A5 is nothing special. G6 is nothing special. Britain has no 4.7 planes worth talking about. Same for Japan, sans J2M5 which should go to 5.0 anyway along with J2M2. Sweden - just lol. Italy - C.205 S3 is a sad plane that is just worse in every aspect. 

Of course US has F4U4 and P-38L at 4.7, but both should go 0.3 BR higher anyway. 

I remember times where premiums were often even slightly worse than techtree equivalents, like Typhoon 1b early. IMO they should be pretty much competitive and not superior and the plane would do just fine. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Loofah

[fishy38t 2]

I just got done with a match in air RB in my wyvern going for a BP mission and was suspicious of the number of fighters I saw on the enemy team having never seen a bomber despite 7/12 of our team being bombers or strike aircraft so I checked the replay and sure enough while our team consisted of 2/3 bombers the enemy team was 100% fighters and interceptors.  Where is the balance in that lopsided of a matchup where the enemy is just allowed to have that much of an advantage over the other from the start?

[Loofah 3,250]

26 minutes ago, fishy38t said:

I just got done with a match in air RB in my wyvern going for a BP mission and was suspicious of the number of fighters I saw on the enemy team having never seen a bomber despite 7/12 of our team being bombers or strike aircraft so I checked the replay and sure enough while our team consisted of 2/3 bombers the enemy team was 100% fighters and interceptors.  Where is the balance in that lopsided of a matchup where the enemy is just allowed to have that much of an advantage over the other from the start?

 

2 Wyverns (and you had 3) can easily wipe out most of the enemy team in the first 4 minutes of the game, so you are absolutely right, it's absolutely lopsided only 1 team gets super OP pay2win fighter-attacker.

If you lost, it was your conscious choice to be useless that caused this. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Loofah

[Ub3rshadow 874]

3 wyverns strafe a lot at the start of the match, great, we strafe back after killing them all and there's a single Pe-8 just vibing by the airfield, and we all get lit up by midmap AA while we strafe, and asymmetrical natural ticket bleed wins the game by bleeding 1000 tickets in a minute.

 

I was directly below that Pe-8 and about to pitch into him to shoot him when the tickets jumped 200 at a time to 0. Thanks Gaijin.

 

Even with a crap load of strafing we had no chance to contest the earlygame ticket lead the Wyverns put in, even though in the end we killed all of their aircraft with some of ours left, and we only lagged by 4 ground targets destroyed. Shove the damn thing to 5.0 at the minimum, with its absurd top speed, ammo count, and ordnance loadouts.

 

Whoever thought sticking a postwar turboprop with amazing weaponry and speed at a lower BR than the Spit mk IX, P-51D-5, and Yak 3 is taking the ****.

[BlackberryAvar 774]

It's just so sad that this kind of thing is allowed to exist, but the jet compression is bad too.

 

Forget the competition between the latest meta vehicles, more than 50% of the 9.7-10.0 vehicles aren't allowed to play the game! The only thing you're allowed to do is be a bomb truck free XP pinata for whatever meta plane has the good missiles. What a mess.

 

I bought a year of premium time yet somehow I find myself taking more and more self-enforced breaks from war thunder.

[Apfelsator 1,160]

gaijin, how can you put 9.0 jets like the sa'ar against 9.7/10.0's on a regular basis? HOW IS THIS BALANCED.
 

the balancing in this game is getting worse every patch, gg on that.

[RagingAgent 3]

Here to remind everyone that jets need a general BR overhaul.

[MOBB 1,354]

Making a specific air rb performance guide to help with exactly this… I wish gaijin updated the aircraft cards in the least

[I_MIKE_I 7,651]

On 28/03/2019 at 13:04, Stona said:

In order to improve balance in aircraft Realistic Battles  for vehicles of BR 7.7 and higher, the priority of the creating symmetrical battles "allies vs allies" and "axis vs axis" has been temporarily increased.

 

Please leave feedback!

Could you please elaborate what this even means?

Axis / Allies kinda doesn't apply when it's West/East Germany and JSDF in those regions.

 

My personal observation is, that the matchmaker still tries to group planes of the same nation in a team most of the time, meaning "popular" planes like the A10+F5C can still make up a entire U.S. Team which then fights a mix of everything else.

 

Unless there's a significant overflow causing both sides to be filled with planes of one nation, I don't think it works out to balance the "extreme" cases of planes performing extremely well (I assume the F14) or behaving extremely different (A10 / Su25).

 

I understand the motivation behind it, but I don't think it's working out. Even if it would just indiscriminately put any nation on each side, it would possibly balance the statistical averages but not the games itself.

[Apfelsator 1,160]

On 14/11/2022 at 19:01, RagingAgent said:

Here to remind everyone that jets need a general BR overhaul.

i absolutely support this.

 

mig-19's to 9.3 in air RB, what a mess to even think about it.

[Loofah 3,250]

On 20/11/2022 at 09:22, I_MIKE_I said:

Could you please elaborate what this even means?

Axis / Allies kinda doesn't apply when it's West/East Germany and JSDF in those regions.

 

My personal observation is, that the matchmaker still tries to group planes of the same nation in a team most of the time, meaning "popular" planes like the A10+F5C can still make up a entire U.S. Team which then fights a mix of everything else.

 

Unless there's a significant overflow causing both sides to be filled with planes of one nation, I don't think it works out to balance the "extreme" cases of planes performing extremely well (I assume the F14) or behaving extremely different (A10 / Su25).

 

I understand the motivation behind it, but I don't think it's working out. Even if it would just indiscriminately put any nation on each side, it would possibly balance the statistical averages but not the games itself.

You responded to 2019 comment. 

[I_MIKE_I 7,651]

1 hour ago, Loofah said:

You responded to 2019 comment. 

But it's the topic of the thread, if it weren't relevant anymore, it would likely be closed.

I can't give feedback if I don't know what exactly the feedback is supposed to be about.

 

To dumb it down:

It's likely needed, since the USA alone makes up enough to sometimes be on both sides (especially with A10/F5c), so any "realistic" setting would mean longer timers.

However, that's only about keeping the timer down, it won't do much for balance or cleaning up the statistics that feed the BR system.

[VF21_Freelancers 1,404]

2 hours ago, Loofah said:

You responded to 2019 comment. 

Just a reminder for those who don't know MM back then...

MM in Jet RB was changed from Axis vs Allies to Axis vs Axis/Allies vs Allies because we got supersonic jets at "Supersonic(F-100D, MiG-19PT)" and "Locked on!(MiG-19S, T-2)" updates and "WW2 era based" matchmaker in Jet RB match was super unbalanced and Axis teams had over 80% winrates at late 2018 iirc.
 

I don't remember when that matchmaker was removed, but it should have already been gone as of "Night Vision" updates.

Edited November 23, 2022 by NoBombersInJetRB

[The_29er 654]

Remove the BR system at 9.3+ range and separate aircraft with flares and aircraft without, any plane without flares 9.3+ is are completely unplayable. 

[VF21_Freelancers 1,404]

8 hours ago, The_29er said:

Remove the BR system at 9.3+ range and separate aircraft with flares and aircraft without, any plane without flares 9.3+ is are completely unplayable. 

What about MiG-21SPS-K?

You can have flares instead of gunpods, but if you do that, which matchmaker do you think it should throw in?

 

Also, separating matchmakers with and without flares would not works well because some 9.3 stuff like Hunter FGA.9 and J32B would beaten by 10.3 stuff like Mirage IIIC which doesn't have flares.

Edited December 1, 2022 by NoBombersInJetRB

[Agent_D47 38]

On 01/12/2022 at 11:05, NoBombersInJetRB said:

What about MiG-21SPS-K?

You can have flares instead of gunpods, but if you do that, which matchmaker do you think it should throw in?

 

Also, separating matchmakers with and without flares would not works well because some 9.3 stuff like Hunter FGA.9 and J32B would beaten by 10.3 stuff like Mirage IIIC which doesn't have flares.

The idea of BRs is great, it is just the compression getting way too high. The F14 is called the F14 because it should be 14.0 ;). Would gives space to seperate like in lower tiers. F4U-A1 is 2.7 while F4U-C1, basically same engine and flight model is 4.7 with a different weapon loadout if 4 cannons instead of 6 mgs. That separation would be great to have at top tier as well.

[GNDM Nirvana@live 830]

Both the A10 and the Su25 need to be uptiered to 11.0-11.3 as neither vehicle has any business being so low in BR to indiscriminately slaughter other jets that completely lack any countermeasures. All Aspect missiles belong at top tier and top tier only regardless of platform. The A10 and Su25 have completely murdered the 8.7-9.0-9.7-10.0 BR brackets which were already compressed to hell. 

 

I have some real choice words for whichever brainlet(s) thought putting them at any BR under 11.0-11.3 was acceptable but unfortunately those responsible will never show their face(s) and own up to it.

[VF21_Freelancers 1,404]

15 hours ago, Agent_D47 said:

The idea of BRs is great, it is just the compression getting way too high. The F14 is called the F14 because it should be 14.0 ;). Would gives space to seperate like in lower tiers. F4U-A1 is 2.7 while F4U-C1, basically same engine and flight model is 4.7 with a different weapon loadout if 4 cannons instead of 6 mgs. That separation would be great to have at top tier as well.

I don't think BR matchmaker is good idea because it makes blackhole when people spammed specific BRs like 5.0-6.0 and 9.3-10.3.

If the number of times you get uptier and downtier matches would always be equal, the BR system would be a good idea, but unfortunately that is not the case.

[Agent_D47 38]

3 hours ago, NoBombersInJetRB said:

I don't think BR matchmaker is good idea because it makes blackhole when people spammed specific BRs like 5.0-6.0 and 9.3-10.3.

If the number of times you get uptier and downtier matches would always be equal, the BR system would be a good idea, but unfortunately that is not the case.

That some BRs get more downtiered then others is fine, it balances out BRs because people have an incentive to move BRs, doing that balances out the BRs. If certain vehicles or lineups are so popular, probably BR is favourable and many people playing them with downtiers and winning a lot will result in the BR going up and the vehicle/lineup becoming less popular.

[Jet_Leno 42]

The acceptable band-aid would be to cap the uptier at 0.7 instead of 1.0. It's simply un-fun flying ANY 8.7 vs ANY 9.7 or any 10.3 vs any 11.3 etc., but most planes at least stand a chance against something .3 or .7 higher. 

 

[GNDM Nirvana@live 830]

On 06/12/2022 at 05:53, Jet_Leno said:

The acceptable band-aid would be to cap the uptier at 0.7 instead of 1.0. It's simply un-fun flying ANY 8.7 vs ANY 9.7 or any 10.3 vs any 11.3 etc., but most planes at least stand a chance against something .3 or .7 higher. 

 

Problem is we still have subsonics at 9.0 - Multiple Sabres for example - that were getting absolutely clowned on at 9.7 and the introducting of all aspects has only further exasperated just how unplayable such aircraft are. 

[Norbi86136 71]

On 05/12/2022 at 16:43, GNDM Nirvana@live said:

Both the A10 and the Su25 need to be uptiered to 11.0-11.3 as neither vehicle has any business being so low in BR to indiscriminately slaughter other jets that completely lack any countermeasures. All Aspect missiles belong at top tier and top tier only regardless of platform. The A10 and Su25 have completely murdered the 8.7-9.0-9.7-10.0 BR brackets which were already compressed to hell. 

 

I have some real choice words for whichever brainlet(s) thought putting them at any BR under 11.0-11.3 was acceptable but unfortunately those responsible will never show their face(s) and own up to it.

 

I think they'd be fine if they both went to 10.3. This would allow them to occasionally club flare-less aircraft like the Mig19 or Mirage III but it would also allow them to get pulled to 11.3 where they'd be forced to mainly focus on ground targets instead of being air superiority fighters all the time like they are now.