Balance improvements in Aircraft Realistic Battles

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

8 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

What how is that a non-powercreep situation, all the aircraft you mention would completely stomp the cl13B, g91YS and the mig 19S as those aircraft would be at least 300km/h faster than them with better AAM missles than the cl13B, g91YS, and mig 19S. You would need to give Italy and germany similar aircraft, as this would be powercreep against axis.

They don't have similar aircraft

The only other option is to give everyone Mach 2 aircraft.  Which is not very likely.

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Conte_Baracca

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

17 hours ago, HanTheKiller said:

Its not my WT after 1.87....I was excited as I saw the mig19s and the m1a1, but now....meh...gaijin sucks in this patch absolutly....

And there’s plenty of other stuff to focus on besides just top tiers. 

 

The real fun is the lower and mid tiers, IMHO.

 

I’ve just been going back and spading every tank from Tier 1-3 in every nation lately. I’ll probably end up doing the same with planes at some point. I’m actually having fun, not being consumed by the hideously unbalanced grind cesspool top tier.

 

Now that they have opened mixed games, can they not just shove the T-2 up to 11.3 so it only fights itself? Or better yet to 11.7 and all other supersonics to 10.3 to spare the 9.0 subsonics the pain of both fighting supersonics AND missiles?

 

A BR hotfix would end this mess REALLY quick. 

17 hours ago, BlackFlagger said:

Yeah I think T2 to 10.3 or 10.7 would be a nice change. But they're not gonna be in a hurry to change it now because they did the mixed matches thing.

10.3 or 10.7 would not change much.

 

It’s better enough than other top tiers by such a margin when paired with the missile warning that it should be 11.3 minimum so it only fights itself.

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

3 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

And there’s plenty of other stuff to focus on besides just top tiers. 

 

The real fun is the lower and mid tiers, IMHO.

 

I’ve just been going back and spading every tank from Tier 1-3 in every nation lately. I’ll probably end up doing the same with planes at some point. I’m actually having fun, not being consumed by the hideously unbalanced grind cesspool top tier.

 

Now that they have opened mixed games, can they not just shove the T-2 up to 11.3 so it only fights itself? Or better yet to 11.7 and all other supersonics to 10.3 to spare the 9.0 subsonics the pain of both fighting supersonics AND missiles?

 

A BR hotfix would end this mess REALLY quick. 

10.3 or 10.7 would not change much.

 

It’s better enough than other top tiers by such a margin when paired with the missile warning that it should be 11.3 minimum so it only fights itself.

Starting to wonder when the heck we are going to see the promised BR changes/economy fixes/unscrewing of high tiers they have talked about in various ways for months.

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

3 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Starting to wonder when the heck we are going to see the promised BR changes/economy fixes/unscrewing of high tiers they have talked about in various ways for months.

Yeah I’m holding off playing the vast majority of my Tier IV and V planes I have currently unlocked awaiting the much-needed decompression. 

 

Even with premium account, attempting to spade the Me-163B-1 is RIDICULOUS. Axis vs Axis games are making things basically impossible now.

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

6 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Even with premium account, attempting to spade the Me-163B-1 is RIDICULOUS. Axis vs Axis games are making things basically impossible now.

*cries with laughter in Allied Team*

 

[Stavroforos 15,367]

1 minute ago, Conte_Baracca said:

*cries with laughter in Allied Team*

 

I guess Axis players are dealing with balance for this first time, lol. 

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

1 hour ago, Stavroforos said:

I guess Axis players are dealing with balance for this first time, lol. 

Their pain amuses me.

[SpriGgy 992]

The only times you loose with Axis Jets in Air RB is, when you face another Axis team. Then that team wins that has more Me 163B-0 and Me-262C2b most of the times.

Its a saddening state balance whise we are in atm. But no one wants to play against a mirror match of the own team all the time. We play Air RB for a reason, and that reason is to have at least a little bit historic flair.

Just finally fix the BRs or change some of the Vehicles to a different Version. ALso Gaijin needs to add Jets that fill Gaps instead of only creating power creeps.

Never understood why we got the F3D-1 instead of the a bit more powerful F3D-3 especially when it was introduced with a BR of 8.0.

Since mostly the Same BRs are for Air RB are problematic, why not try Events for them, with fixed Aircraft selections like in Tank Simulator and then try to balance out the Number of Players per Team. Just as a Test Run. We had similar attempts in several historic Events in the Past. Why not try to use this method to work on a Solution???

 

I think if you would change the BR for the MIg 15 (without Bis) to 8.3 as well as the BR of the F86-A5 that still has the same BR as a CL-13 oO to 8.3 as well, i think we would instantly have alot more balance in Allied against Axis teams.

And remove these wrong Maps from Air RB, like the ones with one side having only Carriers for landing in Jets. That ruins Air RB even further, having nonsensical Map Rotations.

Edited April 3, 2019 by SpriGgy

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

7 hours ago, Conte_Baracca said:

*cries with laughter in Allied Team*

I have already very limited interest in jets as-is and have been patiently waiting for the expected grind decompression on the module RP costs for Tier IV & V planes before even seriously considering playing jets seriously. 

 

Even before this change the combat was incredibly homogenous to the point of it being a snoozefest. 

- Are you the fastest? Congratz you’ll be mostly guaranteed a win with decent play.

- Are you not the fastest? You are at the mercy of who is the fastest or you go hunt poor souls flying Tu-4s. Hunting any jet bomber with rear guns is total suicide most of the time.

 

Axis vs Axis completely evaporated any desire I had to play jets and I think I played one or two rounds tops after the patch in the Komet.

[BlackFlagger 199]

22 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Now that they have opened mixed games, can they not just shove the T-2 up to 11.3 so it only fights itself? Or better yet to 11.7 and all other supersonics to 10.3 to spare the 9.0 subsonics the pain of both fighting supersonics AND missiles?

 

A BR hotfix would end this mess REALLY quick. 

10.3 or 10.7 would not change much.

 

It’s better enough than other top tiers by such a margin when paired with the missile warning that it should be 11.3 minimum so it only fights itself.

I don't agree with that, I think it would be fine if it only fought from 9.3 / 9.7 and up. I've won against T2s even with just F100 team, granted we had more supersonics than them but still. I'm a bit split on the missile warning, I liked it more when they took it out because they were useful, but at the same time the clouds and rendering in sun or different weather conditions is really bad in this game so I can see why people would want it back. Its not fun when something gets you let's say in the clouds and you can't spot it or hear it at all.

15 hours ago, Stavroforos said:

I guess Axis players are dealing with balance for this first time, lol. 

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they did what they did in tanks limit to 4 top tiers a game or smt, or at least try to have similar numbers of top tiers in each team say your team has 5 supersonics the enemy team must have between 4 and 6, that would be nice.

 

22 hours ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Starting to wonder when the heck we are going to see the promised BR changes/economy fixes/unscrewing of high tiers they have talked about in various ways for months.

Yes, I do think we need a reduction / rp and sl gain buff across the board, modules are way too expensive, to give two quick examples ta152 injection 27k rp, f9cougar compressor 50k rp. Its pretty bad, let me give you another example I've researched the german mig19s with my cl13mk6 and at the same time trying to spade the cl13, I'm using premium account, no talisman etc. I've unlocked the mig19s almost 400k rp to get and I still need 200k+ rp to spade the cl13, this is just ridiculous imo. By the time you're 50% or 75% through an aircraft of the same tier the aircraft you're using to grind should be spaded already, sadly this is not the case. It seems that in order to spade something like cl13mk6 it basically takes researching two rank 6 planes around 800k rp.

 

22 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Yeah I’m holding off playing the vast majority of my Tier IV and V planes I have currently unlocked awaiting the much-needed decompression. 

 

Even with premium account, attempting to spade the Me-163B-1 is RIDICULOUS. Axis vs Axis games are making things basically impossible now.

Maybe other game modes like I said before, sim or arcade, sim is pretty rewarding and if done right pretty satisfying too.

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

1 hour ago, BlackFlagger said:

I don't agree with that, I think it would be fine if it only fought from 9.3 / 9.7 and up. I've won against T2s even with just F100 team, granted we had more supersonics than them but still. I'm a bit split on the missile warning, I liked it more when they took it out because they were useful, but at the same time the clouds and rendering in sun or different weather conditions is really bad in this game so I can see why people would want it back. Its not xxxxn when something gets you let's say in the clouds and you can't spot it or hear it at all.

Does the missile warning exist even in Simulator?

[Madwolf 10,222]

@Stona hi! I'm not dead!

 

Anyways, I submit a biggest issue with Realistic Air Battles right now comes down not to the a simple imbalance of aircraft, or pilot skill. The main issue is with the balance of winning and losing between factions, and that leading to player burn out. It's very easy to drop the game or Air Battles for a bit when it feels that you're jumping from one frustrating Tier where wins are hard to come by into the next.

 

There is always going to be an aircraft that is flavor of the week, month, patch, or year at every Tier, or BR gap. Since the game has been released to the public though balance has always concentrated on changing plane BR rankings so that planes can or can't see others to try and improve the situation. It would be nice to see new scenarios introduced (using current maps) that attempt to mix up the meta and place aircraft in different situations than what we have now.

 

In addition there should be some experimentation done on implementing bombers, attackers, and loading bombs/rockets on aircraft in a similar manner to unlocking the ability to use an aircraft in Tanks or Ships. This would help fix issues with team imbalance, and also give those ground attacking aircraft a purpose while also facing less fighters.

[BlackFlagger 199]

9 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Does the missile warning exist even in Simulator?

No, it does not exist in simulator, also from what I've heard they're even harder to dodge because you can't go around pulling crazy gs in sim in order to dodge them. What I was talking in that earlier post is air rb, I'm mostly a tank rb / air rb player, I played a few matches in EC mostly bombers and I do play sim tanks from time to time but I wouldn't say I'm a sim pilot.

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

4 hours ago, Madwolf said:

In addition there should be some experimentation done on implementing bombers, attackers, and loading bombs/rockets on aircraft in a similar manner to unlocking the ability to use an aircraft in Tanks or Ships. This would help fix issues with team imbalance, and also give those ground attacking aircraft a purpose while also facing less fighters.

Frankly, as people like @SuperDuperOtter have said in other topics, there is only one way to make bombers and attackers matter.

 

And that is making an “easy & time-efficient win” not achieveable by just fighter actions. Make fighters require some help from nonfighters. Likewise, make nonfighters not able to rush bases or ground units to win all by themselves so they too require fighter input to win.

 

The key is relatively simple: remove all three automatic bleeds.

- remove the “hostile team has lost all its vehicles” bleed from Air RB

- remove the “airbase destroyed” bleed from Air RB

- remove the “AI ground units killing each other in equivalent exchange” or “gremlin script” bleed.

 

Then increase the ticket losses for each aircraft kill such that annihilating the whole enemy team bleeds at most 2/3 of the ticket bar. 

 

The whole idea of bases regenerating after being taken out that Ruhr currently has could be extended to all maps. 

 

All maps lacking bomb bases could have them added; if I’ve seen bases sideways on hills in EC I think they can be plopped just about anywhere on the maps lacking them. 

 

This is the formula shift the mode badly needs. Hardcore fighter pilots might complain, but these changes do not directly harm them or their playability. All they do is add a time penalty should they win air superiority but lose all their nonfighter planes, forcing them to wait for the extra vehicle spawn to bleed out the remaining tickets and leave. Don’t want said time penalty? Then protect the planes that generally cannot protect themselves.

 

For the most part we have enough stuff to fly around in. Japan needs viable attack planes & a proper high tier heavy bomber, while GER/IT/RU/JP need viable superprop & early jet counters. Now with the T-2 as a thing we also need proper counters for that in all other nations. But that’s it. 

 

Only massive gameplay alterations, not more new stuff to fly around, will REALLY solve the problems underlying why Air RB is in a slow but steady state of playerbase decay. 

 

Also, without a ridiculous focus on Air to Air Team Deathmatch, perhaps enemy marker removal could be experimented with. This is more of a change to benefit lower ranks so speed, not maneuverability, becomes more favorable. It would bring japan, Spitfire, & Italian repair bills down. It would better link Air & Ground/Naval RB in how air combat works.

 

Then maybe, we should also get versions of Air Assault (and Ground Assault while we’re at it) for RB and Sim with slower overall paces, NO TROLL ARTILLERY WAVES DESTROYING HALF THE BASE IN THIRTY SECONDS, and actual requirements to land and rearm. 

 

There is one alternative to this massive pile of changes to Air RB, and that is releasing Markerless RB EC full-time for all BRs, using the BR-based matchmaking algorithm we already have. All that needs to be added there in comparison are:

- making the front line extend down the middle of map sectors

- making all map sectors on the front line air domination zones

- multiple smaller bombing points being active simultaneously

- adding extra ground units all along the front line not associated with ground battles. 

 

Those changes are to not have EC devolve into a giant half-hour-long furball parked overtop of the only ground battle on a 128x128km^2 map, so ground attack planes and tactical bombers actually have something to do.

 

All this stuff may seem like its not on topic at first glance. But it actually is, since part of what has fuelled the spam of Axis nations is:

- US having B-57Bs, F-86A-5s, and F9F-8s which are frankly little better than grass cutters in 10.0 games

- UK having Cannonberras

- RU having ordinance-laden MiG-15bis/17A, IL-28, Tu-14T, IL-28sh, and Tu-4

- France having now three different Vautour bombers

- Germany has no jet bombers beyond the 7.0 Ar-234C-3

- Japan has no jet bombers beyond the 7.3 R2Y2 Kai V3

- Italy has no jet bombers at all and no attack planes beyond the F-84G at 7.7

 

So long as one side has non-PvP-centric planes that are rendered useless by bad and outdated objective structure, this will not be possible to change. Adding supersonics took away the only advantage some of the Allied bombers had - speed - and brought the objective structure dysfunction of the whole mode to the breaking point.

Edited April 3, 2019 by MH4UAstragon

[SuperDuperOtter 655]

17 hours ago, Madwolf said:

In addition there should be some experimentation done on implementing bombers, attackers, and loading bombs/rockets on aircraft in a similar manner to unlocking the ability to use an aircraft in Tanks or Ships. This would help fix issues with team imbalance, and also give those ground attacking aircraft a purpose while also facing less fighters.

 

That would need respawns in Air RB. Respawns don't make any sens in the current Air RB.

 

That would make more sens to be experimented in RB EC ... if we had RB EC 

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

2 hours ago, SuperDuperOtter said:

 

That would need respawns in Air RB. Respawns don't make any sens in the current Air RB.

 

That would make more sens to be experimented in RB EC ... if we had RB EC 

Pretty much this. EC would solve so many countless problems Air has in general, if it was Markerless with friendly markers out to 3km range it would be even better still. The last test was just about perfect other than a slightly too short friendly marker range (900m) causing accidental teamkilling.

[SuperDuperOtter 655]

1 hour ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Pretty much this. EC would solve so many countless problems Air has in general, if it was Markerless with friendly markers out to 3km range it would be even better still. The last test was just about perfect other than a slightly too short friendly marker range (900m) causing accidental teamkilling.

 

EC wouldn't solve problems Air has. It would solve issues you, me and others have with Air RB. 

 

But Air RB would remain to be fixed. Though, RB EC would make Air RB easier to fixe, because one of the main issue of Air RB design's is that Air RB tries to a bite of everything. RB EC would allow Air RB to have a more focused design - understand less messy.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by SuperDuperOtter

[FoolOnTheHill 384]

A T-2 and a T-2 dueling a T-2. Suddenly, a wild T-2 appears!

I wonder which T-2 will win this T-2 dogfight?

Probs the T-2 with the most mods 

Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, PO-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2,

Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, PO-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2, Mistibushi T-2,
 

 

 

[GoneToTheAether 9,581]

6 hours ago, SuperDuperOtter said:

 

EC wouldn't solve problems Air has. It would solve issues you, me and others have with Air RB. 

 

But Air RB would remain to be fixed. Though, RB EC would make Air RB easier to fixe, because one of the main issue of Air RB design's is that Air RB tries to a bite of everything. RB EC would allow Air RB to have a more focused design - understand less messy.

Okay, yeah. Air RB could be stripped down to just a fighter deathmatch mode if Markerless RB EC was around 24/7 for all BRs.

[Ein79 5,752]

7 hours ago, FoolOnTheHill said:

A T-2 and a T-2 dueling a T-2. Suddenly, a wild T-2 appears!

I wonder which T-2 will win this T-2 dogfight?

Probs the T-2 with the most mods 

Yes, this is the state of top tier after 1.87.

It also shows the state of the game community - constant excitement about the possibility of having an advantage independent of skills. 

In spite of broken fairplay, in spite of broken historical mood,  in spite of boring mirrored matchmaker, in spite of the fact that given vehicle even aesthetically doesn't fit to the era.

Same case as Yak23 on 7.3 BR when introduced. 

Childish hype of "I am untouchable LOL, I can kill you with impunity LOL". Pathetic.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Einherjer1979

[Chadillac3006 6]

First off the T-2 should have never been added this update unless added alongside it was aircraft like mig21, f-4, f-14, f-18, f-15, su-27.

we already have in the game the AH-1Z which is from 2010 if thats the case just add every jet until 2010 at once

Point is think about what your adding besides killing the game by making people face the same usa vs usa and get rid of the usa cant play with germany italy and such as that will help alot, just stop with the mix battles already as makes the game not fun to play.

 

can also talk about fixing sim everyone vs russia should be like rb but without the bs mix battle as facing nothing but russia gets really boring after the first few days.

[Stavroforos 15,367]

53 minutes ago, Einherjer1979 said:

Yes, this is the state of top tier after 1.87.

It also shows the state of the game community - constant excitement about the possibility of having an advantage independent of skills. 

In spite of broken fairplay, in spite of broken historical mood,  in spite of boring mirrored matchmaker, in spite of the fact that given vehicle even aesthetically doesn't fit to the era.

Same case as Yak23 on 7.3 BR when introduced. 

Childish hype of "I am untouchable LOL, I can kill you with impunity LOL". Pathetic.

Reminds me of players clubbing in CL-13s.

[Ein79 5,752]

8 minutes ago, Stavroforos said:

Reminds me of players clubbing in CL-13s.

LOL, dude, how can you compare it? CL-13 is 7 km/h faster than US F86F and just slighty better accelerating. Everything else is the same...oh, F2 Sabre has better guns.

While Mitshubishi T2 is 300 km/h faster than Mig19, has much more ammo for its radar aimed cannon (750 vs 210) + modern missiles and modern radar. 

This is total outclassification, not a slight advantage.

It is same nonsense situation as F84G and Yak23 fighting He162, Meteor and Me262A,

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Einherjer1979

[Stavroforos 15,367]

9 hours ago, Einherjer1979 said:

LOL, dude, how can you compare it? CL-13 is 7 km/h faster than US F86F and just slighty better accelerating. Everything else is the same...oh, F2 Sabre has better guns.

While Mitshubishi T2 is 300 km/h faster than Mig19, has much more ammo for its radar aimed cannon (750 vs 210) + modern missiles and modern radar. 

This is total outclassification, not a slight advantage.

It is same nonsense situation as F84G and Yak23 fighting He162, Meteor and Me262A,

 

 

So, are you saying CL-13 teams weren't clubbing for like, however long they've been in game? I guess you never noticed because it was on the German team? 

[Ein79 5,752]

51 minutes ago, Stavroforos said:

So, are you saying CL-13 teams weren't clubbing for like, however long they've been in game? I guess you never noticed because it was on the German team? 

But this has nothing to do with the performance of CL13 alone, which is marginally better than F86F, nor with CL13s weapon, which is worse than 4x20 mm revolver cannons of F86F2 or 4x30 mm Aden of Hunter.

Meanwhile, now we have a T2 that absolutely outclasses others in terms of speed (200-300 km/h faster) and acceleration + it has better weapon and best radar in game. 

T2 should be at least whole BR higher than Mig19 or F100.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Einherjer1979