Explanation why AB gets 3x crew skills?

[Daffan 6,158]

(I put this in General because it doesn't pertain to a single game mode, but the entire game... air/ground/naval ab/rb/sb)

 

Can someone explain why Arcade Battles gets THREE TIMES (3x) the crew skills than every other game mode, including SB AIR?  

 

At the rate you earn it in RB, if every battle was 20 minutes/7500RP it would take 750 battles to max a single tank crew w/ premium time and vehicle and depending on skill. 70000 Crew skill points required x 100 (1%) = 7 million RP. 

This number is more like 20 million RP if you wanted to max a single Pilot/Naval crew on the same slot.

 

AB is 1/3 that under the exact  same conditions. In Patch 1.47 it all used to be the same and than it was changed, why? 

 

In the time it takes to max 1 pilot crew, you could work a minimum wage job and max 119 crews. This is basically the unseen PAY2WIN monster. Possible to grind it out? Yes. In reality? No.

 

 

**Thanks mod for moving my topic into a sub forum nobody reads or cares about. 

 

 

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15 minute game with Chieftain Mk3 (8.3) in GFRB. 5 kills, 1 death, 84% battle activity + premium account.

 

 

A grand total of 24 crew skills (2432 / 100). A tank crew needs 70,000 to master. Only another 2915 ace battles to go!

 

Genius design! Have crew skills that were  implemented in 2013 have zero re-design after implementing two completely new game modes with different reward structures!

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ
Chieftain.

[Turenkarn 333]

Ohhh so that's why my crew development speed felt like it hit the deck, when I switched over from AB to playing RB instead... I never would've thought, but if you're right then it's really stupid...

Edited May 7, 2019 by Turenkarn

[Daffan 6,158]

22 minutes ago, Turenkarn said:

Ohhh so that's why my crew development speed felt like it hit the deck, when I switched over from AB to playing RB instead... I never would've thought, but if you're right then it's really stupid...

Well yes,

AB gets 3% of RP and RB/SB only 1% for no reason at all. 

 

Even 3% is crazy slow. The requirement of crew skills contrast to your gain makes it almost blatant p2w because spending real $ is like 200x faster. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Turenkarn 333]

Yeah, aaand they quickly moved this topic to a subforum noone will bother to read... The cash grab must go on...

 

Even before I knew that RB/SB get lesser crew XP rewards, I already hated this aspect of the game by far the most. It really is pay to win. For example I grinded to the top of the USA tank tree, using only 3 crew slots to lessen the crew XP spread, and only playing with premium acc. By the time I got there my crews only reached an average of level 90... And that already contains about 500 GE spent on each slot (if not more), trying to speed things up a bit. I'm still very far out from level 150, especially considering the crew XP requirements aren't even linear, you need TONS of points for the final levels.

 

And if all that wasn't enough, the game also has Expert and Ace crew qualifications, with the prior costing waaay too much SL, and the latter being only available for GE exclusively. Pay to Win levels are off the charts here.

 

I've lost sooo many 1v1 encounters because of this pay to win crew mechanic, if I only got a dollar for each of those times I'd be rich AF. Also, watching full Ace crew gameplay, for example watching PhlyDaily play, he has such a great advantage from that fully maxed crew it's not even funny anymore. I'm not saying he has no skill, he's good, but if he were in the shoes of a regular player, he'd most certainly lose a lot more encounters.

 

This crew system is also the primary thing that keeps me from starting research on new tech trees, I'm not going through the hell of playing with low level crew again. With tanks you get ridiculous repair times, low crew survivability, uncompetitive reload speeds, slower turret rotation, you name it, you have a disadvantage in pretty much anything. Aaand if you tried flying your pilot will just constantly black out, making you lose dogfights that you could easily win if it was only up to player skill...

Edited May 7, 2019 by Turenkarn

[Daffan 6,158]

1 hour ago, Turenkarn said:

 

 

 

 

I've lost sooo many 1v1 encounters because of this pay to win crew mechanic, if I only got a dollar for each of those times I'd be rich AF. Also, watching full Ace crew gameplay, for example watching PhlyDaily play, he has such a great advantage from that fully maxed crew it's not even funny anymore. I'm not saying he has no skill, he's good, but if he were in the shoes of a regular player, he'd most certainly lose a lot more encounters.

 

 

 

PhlyDaily has level 150 crew on everything and free ACE. His reload on big tanks is 20s while everyone else is 30-35s. It's ridiculous

 

1 hour ago, Turenkarn said:

 

This crew system is also the primary thing that keeps me from starting research on new tech trees, I'm not going through the hell of playing with low level crew again. With tanks you get ridiculous repair times, low crew survivability, uncompetitive reload speeds, slower turret rotation, you name it, you have a disadvantage in pretty much anything. Aaand if you tried flying your pilot will just constantly black out, making you lose dogfights that you could easily win if it was only up to player skill...

 

Ya. When Italy and France came out, crews went back to level 1 and it's unplayable.

[JohanssenJr 441]

With most crew skills for tanks, I can work around low level crews (except targeting, that tripe is total bollocks). But the spotting distance crap is dumb and that some crew levels can replace crew members faster than some tanks can reload, which is also bollocks.

 

The real PTW portion of crew skills is by and far air.

 

I don't do air often, but I noticed with low crew skills I was getting waxed incessantly. I decided to drop like 1000GE on an air crew and throw it all into stamina and G resistance. The level of difference that made was night and day.

Edited May 9, 2019 by JohanssenJr

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

The idea in air RB is, that you only need one crew, whereas in air arcade you will need many. Hence in air RB, crew points can be focused on one crew, while in arcade, they are spread.

 

From what I did see, it made sense too: My BF109E-1 made about three times the RP score in RB it would have received in AB. So at the end of the match, the crews earned roughly the same.

 

Besides, I don't really have a crew skill problem. All nations have mostly maxed air crews, many have 3 maxed tank crews. The skippers are getting there too. I once spend a wager on crew skill, later realized that it was a mistake.

 

You need to expert you crews and get like two notches of skill, and they start to work just fine. Jets require more for sure.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Dodo_Dud

[Daffan 6,158]

16 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

The idea in air RB is, that you only need one crew, whereas in air arcade you will need many. Hence in air RB, crew points can be focused on one crew, while in arcade, they are spread.

 

From what I did see, it made sense too: My BF109E-1 made about three times the RP score in RB it would have received in AB. So at the end of the match, the crews earned roughly the same.

 

Besides, I don't really have a crew skill problem. All nations have mostly maxed air crews, many have 3 maxed tank crews. The skippers are getting there too. I once spend a wager on crew skill, later realized that it was a mistake.

 

You need to expert you crews and get like two notches of skill, and they start to work just fine. Jets require more for sure.

Not a good system because all your doing is making people go into AB and power grinding one crew and leaving. 

 

It's bad for team balance (Army of 1 death leavers) and doesn't really make sense because you can play any mode at any time.

 

Now because of this 3% figure, people are forced to play AB just to have any hope of getting there in a time frame that is applicable to a human's life span. (50 years is still bad but not as bad as 150) 

 

I'm convinced Gaijin forgot about Crew Skill rates. First, they reduce overall RP gained in the game since 2013 (Nerfing the crew skill rate at same time inadvertently), than they reduce amount of RP required for mods/vehicles (but don't change crew skills) therefore overall it's much slower, lastly, in 1.47 they reduce crew skill gain from 3% to 1% in RB/SB. 

 

I don't really understand how it's fair or balanced when 1 hour of real life minimum wage is equivalent to 100 hours of in-game grinding with a premium plane, premium account and in a specific game mode (AB AIR).

 

If you were to play GFRB, it would take you FOREVER to get crew skills, because RP there is like 1/3 of RB air even. And yet, in that game mode you have 4-5-6 crews, not 3 like AB.

Edited May 9, 2019 by DaffanZ

[vanVoort 119]

On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 18:32, Turenkarn said:

And if all that wasn't enough, the game also has Expert and Ace crew qualifications, with the prior costing waaay too much SL, and the latter being only available for GE exclusively. Pay to Win levels are off the charts here.

 

Ace has not been GE only for some time

 

It is grindable, and I have done it on two  three vehicles and am close on several more

 

If I only played one nation/one mode/one BR rather than all of all of them I would have Ace unlocked quite fast on the vehicles I wanted to play

Edited May 9, 2019 by vanVoort

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

On 10/05/2019 at 00:42, DaffanZ said:

Not a good system because all your doing is making people go into AB and power grinding one crew and leaving.

You could equally claim all people go RB, power spading one vehicle and leave. There is also a 29% bonus on tree research which is not present in AB. This benefit should not be disregarded in this context either.Every mode has advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it makes sense to lobby for the optimization for personal preferences.

 

Power grinding crews in AB (by method of 1 death leaver) is something I rarely observe. The fast leavers do everything but power grind crews.

 

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It's bad for team balance (Army of 1 death leavers)

As I said, those people will get their crew nowhere fast. Most likely they are after modules (or the 2x bonus at the moment)

 

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Now because of this 3% figure, people are forced to play AB

No one is forced. Play event, sell the vehicle, have maxed crew. As I hinted above, in my first attempt at air RB, I earned way more RP on one plane then I would have in AB. So it seems somewhat balanced to me.

 

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just to have any hope of getting there in a time frame that is applicable to a human's life span. (50 years is still bad but not as bad as 150) 

As I said before, most all my air crews are maxed by now. All nations... I spend 1000 GE once, won't do it again.

 

 

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First, they reduce overall RP gained in the game since 2013

Not sure that is right. There were no bases in 2013, were there? And that is where a lot of of it sits.

 

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I don't really understand how it's fair or balanced when 1 hour of real life minimum wage is equivalent to 100 hours of in-game grinding with a premium plane, premium account and in a specific game mode (AB AIR).

You must either live in a country with extremely high minimum wage or you are doing it wrong. I can farm crew skill much faster.

 

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If you were to play GFRB, it would take you FOREVER to get crew skills, because RP there is like 1/3 of RB air even. And yet, in that game mode you have 4-5-6 crews, not 3 like AB.

Can't speak for that mode. But in air arcade, I have 8 crews that needed crew skills. In 7 nations.

 

 

So what should be done? If you want fairness among modes, you would have to decide what model would be fair to begin with. There is no universal definition of fairness. You would have to take into account that tank crews take more than two times the crew points that air crews do, with ships in between. Obviously, tanks are meant to take longer.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Dodo_Dud

[Daffan 6,158]

37 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

You could equally claim all people go RB, power spading one vehicle and leave. Every mode has advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it makes sense to lobby for the optimization for personal preferences.

 

They can't, because you only get one spawn in Air so leavers don't exist. Furthermore, the crew skill is vastly, vastly lower so they wouldn't if they could.   I also very much doubt that RB even gets 1% of RP converted to Crew Skills after the maths was done, implying that it's broken. I've made a thread on it actually that's awaiting tech mod approval.

 

 

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As I said, those people will get their crew nowhere fast. Most likely they are after modules (or the 2x bonus at the moment)

 

How does that even make sense?

 

HOW??? AB air is the fastest mode for grinding, therefore using a premium plane and leaving is the fastest way to level a singular crew in the game. Period. Saying these people will get their crew nowhere fast means nothing, unless you accept that it's impossible to progress in RB/SB than because they are even slower.

 

 

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No one is forced. Play event, sell the vehicle, have maxed crew. As I hinted above, in my first attempt at air RB, I earned way more RP on one plane then I would have in AB. So it seems somewhat balanced to me.

 

Your right, they are forced to resort to P2W GE elements. Grinding out a Merkava took 48hrs of playing. If you sold it now, for 60gjn, you get 175k crew skill. That's 4.5 pilot crew or 2.5 tankers. Relying on events to make dents in the crew skill gain is ridiculous.

We've already seen Gaijin understand that RP requirements are ridiculous in the tech tree and same with Silver Lion prices, this is just another area that needs looking at, considering it's had no real changes since 2014. 

 

I remember you from the ECO thread pre-eco patch telling everyone SL was easy to make and so was RP, the famed 30k air battles guy playing the most optimum mode 24/7 and never touched anything else.

 

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As I said before, most all my air crews are maxed by now. All nations... I spend 1000 GE once, won't do it again.

 

Yeah and you have almost 30k battles, all in Arcade Air with 3x modifier, the exact mode I'm talking about being the only way to grind crew skills. 

 

 

 

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Not sure that is right. There were no bases in 2013, were there? And that is were a lot of of it sits.

 

I used to make 150k RP in games of SB when there was no EC, so normal queued matches.

 

Nothing like that exists anymore. Back in 20 tier system you needed more RP to unlock stuff so rates were higher. 

 

 

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You must either live in a country with extremely high minimum wage or you are doing it wrong. I can farm crew skill much faster.

 

I live in Australia where min wage is $19-22 depending on age. That's enough for 3000 GE.

 

Btw, I doubt it. So very much doubt it. 

 

I played a game with premium plane, premium account and got kills, won and earned 182 crew skill in a single 12 minute battle of Air AB, in ground RB for same time it would be 30 and Air RB 60 (Already established that RB is <1% conversion)

 

You can't win every game, so we have to remove some of the RP bonus from winning from formula. Optimistically, you get 100 crew skill per game. You need 35000 for a pilot crew. 350 games, 12 minutes, 60ish hours with everything going amazing. Dare to change modes to RB/SB Air? Boom 200 hours now. Play RBGF? 400 hours.

 

That's 60 hours playing optimally for 35000. Or you can just pay from a job 1 hour and get 52500. Broken P2W.

 

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Can't speak for that mode. But in air arcade, I have 8 crews that needed crew skills. In 7 nations.

 

I was refuting your point where you said that AB deserved more crew skill reward because you needed more crews.

 

Does that mean RBGF should get a 6% modifier since you can spawn twice as much as AB Air?

Edited May 10, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

28 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

They can't, because you only get one spawn in Air so leavers don't exist.

I talked about spading in that quote, not about crew.

 

28 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

AB air is the fastest mode for grinding, therefore using a premium plane and leaving is the fastest way to level a singular crew in the game. Period.

LOL. Then I rest my case here, as you just plainly documented that you do not understand the economy and the location of in game RP-wealth. Do it your way and complain... 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Dodo_Dud

[vanVoort 119]

On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 18:32, Turenkarn said:

This crew system is also the primary thing that keeps me from starting research on new tech trees, I'm not going through the hell of playing with low level crew again. With tanks you get ridiculous repair times, low crew survivability, uncompetitive reload speeds, slower turret rotation, you name it, you have a disadvantage in pretty much anything. Aaand if you tried flying your pilot will just constantly black out, making you lose dogfights that you could easily win if it was only up to player skill...

 

Or you go to a new tech tree and get the satisfaction of seeing how much is your skill and how much is good crews and spaded vehicles

 

 

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

On 07/05/2019 at 20:32, Turenkarn said:

This crew system is also the primary thing that keeps me from starting research on new tech trees, I'm not going through the hell of playing with low level crew again. With tanks you get ridiculous repair times, low crew survivability, uncompetitive reload speeds, slower turret rotation, you name it, you have a disadvantage in pretty much anything. Aaand if you tried flying your pilot will just constantly black out, making you lose dogfights that you could easily win if it was only up to player skill...

 

I don't agree. Just a couple of days ago, I got my 8th italian air crew. The first three missions were just fine: 5:1 ; 4:1; 6:0 (Survivor). When I died, I was leading by kills. It really isn't anywhere as bad as you make it sound. However, you should expert the crew with the vehicle.

[TheElite96 5,839]

Alright guys... enough of the personal dispute. You can bring it to PMs if you wish to continue, but leave it out of here.

 

On 07/05/2019 at 10:42, DaffanZ said:

 

**Thanks mod for moving my topic into a sub forum nobody reads or cares about. 

Op: It was moved to the correct section, and not for any other reason. There are in fact quite a few users who "care" about this section.

 

Off topic / personal dispute cleaned up

 

 

[Daffan 6,158]

10 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

I don't agree. Just a couple of days ago, I got my 8th italian air crew. The first three missions were just fine: 5:1 ; 4:1; 6:0 (Survivor). When I died, I was leading by kills. It really isn't anywhere as bad as you make it sound. However, you should expert the crew with the vehicle.

What you say is true only in AB where you can't black out and keen vision doesn't mean anything.

 

My French stats represent this perfectly. I took the NC900 into AB (My only French Aircraft with more than 2 battle stats in AB) purely because playing it in RB was impossible without a starting crew position. You can't spot enemies until they are 2.5km away (instead of 5.5km) for a start, meaning you are committed to a fight every time in RB.

 

Expert definitely "lessens" the grind requirement in terms of playability -- but in terms of competitiveness your still behind others. 

 

Than again, experting a crew is no easy task when tanks require crew level 45, 55, 65 and 75+. Getting there as a tanker is tantamount to torture. I complain about RB/SB rates, RB/SB tankers get it even worse. A good air match might be 20 even 30k RP and a good tank match is like 7-10k and takes just as long.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, DaffanZ said:

What you say is true only in AB where you can't black out and keen vision doesn't mean anything.

 

Your statement is wrong, as most AB players will know. You can black out, and without keen vision, you 'see' less far.

 

 

 

[Daffan 6,158]

9 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

Your statement is wrong, as most AB players will know. You can black out, and without keen vision, you 'see' less far.

 

 

 

Except AB maps are so small and everyone is sharing vision easily, it overlaps like crazy. 

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

20 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Except AB maps are so small and everyone is sharing vision easily, it overlaps like crazy. 

 

That was not your claim. Your claim was:

2 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

in AB where you can't black out and keen vision doesn't mean anything

And this claim is not correct.

[Daffan 6,158]

8 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

That was not your claim. Your claim was:

And this claim is not correct.

 

But it doesn't mean anything...

[Thorne1 954]

3 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

But it doesn't mean anything...

 

Yes, your claim that you can't black out in AB and vision makes no difference does not mean anything, since you can black out in AB, and keen vision let's see you further.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Thorne1

[Daffan 6,158]

21 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

Yes, your claim that you can't black out in AB and vision makes no difference does not mean anything, since you can black out in AB, and keen vision let's see you further.

Having an infinite water supply and 9999999999999999999 trillion gallons available for use is technically different but either one means that exact same thing for the ordinary human. Makes zero difference to the outcome. 

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

5 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Having an infinite water supply and 9999999999999999999 trillion gallons available for use is technically different but either one means that exact same thing for the ordinary human. Makes zero difference to the outcome. 

 

That was not your claim. Don't distract.

[Thorne1 954]

18 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Having an infinite water supply and 9999999999999999999 trillion gallons available for use is technically different but either one means that exact same thing for the ordinary human. Makes zero difference to the outcome. 

 

If my pilot does not black out in a tight turn then he won't black out and I won't loose control. That is a clear advantage.

 

If I go bomber hunting and I can spot the bombers from 12km instead of just 7km that is a clear advantage.

 

All the water in all the oceans don't change that.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Thorne1

[Daffan 6,158]

34 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

That was not your claim. Don't distract.

I said it doesn't mean anything. That's still true. 

 

21 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

If my pilot does not black out in a tight turn then he won't black out and I won't loose control. That is a clear advantage.

 

If I go bomber hunting and I can spot the bombers from 12km instead of just 7km that is a clear advantage.

 

All the water in all the oceans don't change that.

 

Which AB map is that plausible on again? 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by DaffanZ