Explanation why AB gets 3x crew skills?

[Thorne1 954]

5 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Which AB map is that plausible on again? 

 

Not blacking out and seeing bombers from 12km instead of just 7km?

 

All of them.

[Daffan 6,158]

3 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

Not blacking out and seeing bombers from 12km instead of just 7km?

 

Except for the fact the maps are so small and vision is shared that it doesn't mean anything. 

 

 

[Thorne1 954]

Maps ain't that small, and what do you mean with "vision is shared"?

 

We talking pilots and planes here.

There is no "shared vision", neither less than 15km between planes spawn points.

 

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

 

If we talk about G-Tolerance and Keen Vision in AB we talk about plane crews, in AF AB matches, on AF AB maps.

 

Not tank crews on GF AB maps.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Thorne1

[Daffan 6,158]

2 hours ago, Thorne1 said:

Maps ain't that small, and what do you mean with "vision is shared"?

 

We talking pilots and planes here.

There is no "shared vision", neither less than 15km between planes spawn points.

 

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

 

If we talk about G-Tolerance and Keen Vision in AB we talk about plane crews, in AF AB matches, on AF AB maps.

 

Not tank crews on GF AB maps.

If one person can spot the enemy in air, everyone can...

 

Base spotting distance AT LEVEL 0 CREW in AB is almost the   same as a maxed ace crew in RB. 4.2km vs 5.3km 

 

Maps are smaller in AB than RB. Objectives are clustered tighter so enemies are all in one central location.

 

Speed is faster so they get to center faster + There are more people to share vision.

 

You can just rely on your allies to spot every single enemy and at the very, very worst (never ever happens) rely on your base spotting values which are just as good as RB max. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Thorne1 954]

32 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

If one person can spot the enemy in air, everyone can...

 

If I'm the only guy at 17k ft hunting bombers, and everybody else is chasing each others tail in furballs close to the ground, there will be no one up there that can help me spot enemies.

 

Quote

Base spotting distance AT LEVEL 0 CREW in AB is almost the   same as a maxed ace crew in RB. 4.2km vs 5.3km 

 

I got my values wrong, but the difference right.

Base spotting distance in AB (LOS) is 3.64km, top range is 7.28km.

No idea where you got your values from.

 

Quote

Maps are smaller in AB than RB. Objectives are clustered tighter so enemies are all in one central location.

Speed is faster so they get to center faster + There are more people to share vision.

 

Bases are not clustered together. Bombers that want to kill bases won't all head to the same base.

 

If there are 3 fields to capture, the enemies won't just concentrate on the field in the middle.

 

So no, they won't be all in one central location.

Maybe in air domination with one field or air location, or frontlines.

But on all other maps, enemies will likely be spread out.

 

Quote

You can just rely on your allies to spot every single enemy and at the very, very worst (never ever happens) rely on your base spotting values which are just as good as RB max. 

 

Sorry, but that is simply not true.

Maybe if you think AF AB is just furballing in the middle of the map getting closer and closer to the ground that is true.

 

I suggest trying AF AB again at higher tiers.

 

Maps like Lonely island f.e. don't work that way at all.

 

And if you want to kill the bomber in the Stratosphere at 23k ft you'll be probably on your own, with nobody helping you spotting.

Same way with the Spain map and smart bombers going for the bases close to ground instead of high. Chances are your teammates won't search for them near the ground, so it is up to you to find them there.

Also a big help having high keen vision then, as spotting range is severly limited when looking down.

[Josephs_Piano 7,044]

58 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

If one person can spot the enemy in air, everyone can...

 

Not true - have you played AB?? :puz:

 

Crews do black out in AB - what they don't do is lose control like in RB - but you lose sight and carry on with the same "straight line" manouvre until you recover.

 

If I'm after particular crew advancement I play RB - which doesn't happen all that often - but the rewards for an individual kill are so much higher, and bases are easier to kill for bombers......  so a single crew gets a much higher return rather than spreading it out over several crews.

[Daffan 6,158]

1 hour ago, Thorne1 said:

 

 

I got my values wrong, but the difference right.

Base spotting distance in AB (LOS) is 3.64km, top range is 7.28km.

No idea where you got your values from.

Me too. I added a single bar of keen vision.

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

If there are 3 fields to capture, the enemies won't just concentrate on the field in the middle.

 

Yeah the fields that are like 200 meters apart. 

 

Quote

 

 

Sorry, but that is simply not true.

Maybe if you think AF AB is just furballing in the middle of the map getting closer and closer to the ground that is true.

 

Actually AB is all about flying over the enemy spawn and camping air spawn.

 

59 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

 

If I'm after particular crew advancement I play RB - which doesn't happen all that often - but the rewards for an individual kill are so much higher, and bases are easier to kill for bombers......  so a single crew gets a much higher return rather than spreading it out over several crews.

 

This is just not true at all.

 

You have to make 3x as much in RB to offset the bonus made by the ab multiplier on the crew skills alone. The spreading out is a complete joke considering you can 1 death leave AB.

 

RB does make more money though. Oh and you can't count vehicle xp, only mod xp. 

 

I wouldn't have made this thread if there was a sense of fairness and parity between game modes. Let's not forget about our ground brethren who make 1/4th the RP of any air game mode, they are eternally screwed.

Btw. 

How am I spotting enemies almost 10k away without shared spotting? I don't even have expert or max crew

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Thorne1 954]

47 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Yeah the fields that are like 200 meters apart.

 

Yeah, those damn domination maps with 3 fields all with 200 meters between them, tell me more.

 

Quote

Actually AB is all about flying over the enemy spawn and camping air spawn.

 

While RB is sideclimbing for 10 minutes, then getting shot down.

Good that we got this sorted out.

 

If you don't want to be taken seriously, why don't you just say so?

Edited May 12, 2019 by Thorne1

[Josephs_Piano 7,044]

51 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

This is just not true at all.

 

Yopu calling me a liar?  I told you how I play - how the f would you know better??

 

51 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

 

You have to make 3x as much in RB to offset the bonus made by the ab multiplier on the crew skills alone. The spreading out is a complete joke considering you can 1 death leave AB.

 

But I DO make 3 times as much in RB - that's the point - and 1 a/c in AB generally makes sweet FA.

 

[Daffan 6,158]

29 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

Yeah, those damn domination maps with 3 fields all with 200 meters between them, tell me more.

 

 

While RB is sideclimbing for 10 minutes, then getting shot down.

Good that we got this sorted out.

 

I mean yeah it is at the start of a battle and the  end of your battle if your a bad. 

 

Camping airspawn is just #1 every time, beginning of battle or the end for anyone. 

 

 

Quote

 

If you don't want to be taken seriously, why don't you just say so?

 

Stop making wrong posts.

23 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

Yopu calling me a liar?  I told you how I play - how the f would you know better??

 

Anecdotal evidence will never beat maths. Sorry not sorry.

 

It doesn't matter how good anyone plays you'l never beat AB rates. 

 

Quote

 

But I DO make 3 times as much in RB - that's the point - and 1 a/c in AB generally makes sweet FA.

 

 

I just played a 12 minute match in AB that got me 176 crew skill on a lose. That would mean someone would need to make 18k modification RP in 12 minutes in an RB match just to equal, where it takes 5 minutes to climb at the start. GL bro. GL.  

 

I can't even do that in RB consistently,  nobody can. That's the whole point of this post. It's much, much faster and easier in AB for no reason. 

 

I honestly don't know where this 3x reward for RB came from. Just because AB is 3x crew skills does not mean RB is 3x mod RP just to offset, you don't just get 3x by clicking RB. Are you comparing a 10 minute AB match with a 30 minute RB match? Or what? 

Gaijin has proven they touch RP rates (They uncapped RP ground forces late last year) without any change to crew skills or other modes. Everything is independent of each other and out of whack. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Thorne1 954]

1 minute ago, DaffanZ said:

 

I mean yeah it is at the start of a battle and the  end of your battle if your a bad. 

 

Camping airspawn is just #1 every time, beginning of battle or the end for anyone. 

 

Stop making wrong posts.

 

You first.

[Daffan 6,158]

8 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

You first.

How do you even argue with someone who doesn't even know that camping airspawn is #1 strategy in AB?

[Josephs_Piano 7,044]

24 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Anecdotal evidence will never beat maths. Sorry not sorry.

 

Me telling you how I play is not anecdotal - and it doesn't require maths.

 

And here you are spreading anecdotes all over the place - you are welcome to my ignore pile.

 

 

12 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

How do you even argue with someone who doesn't even know that camping airspawn is #1 strategy in AB?

 

How do you argue with someone who actually thinks this carp?

 

I've been playing 4.0 and 8.0 Air AB all afternoon - it's a rainy autumn day here...  and haven't seen one case of camping all day - there - my anecdote screws your gross generalization!

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Josephs_Piano

[Thorne1 954]

10 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

How do you even argue with someone who doesn't even know that camping airspawn is #1 strategy in AB?

 

How do you even argue with someone who claims that black out does not happen in AB, that in air domination the fields are only 200 meters apart, and camping airspawn is #1 tactic in AB?

[Daffan 6,158]

19 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

How do you even argue with someone who claims that black out does not happen in AB, that in air domination the fields are only 200 meters apart, and camping airspawn is #1 tactic in AB?

 

GL blacking out in normal combat in AB.

They really are. Capping them is a death sentence because they are clustered all together and in the middle of map.

 

It is. Look at any of the top AB players, they'l all have two things in common and tell you the same thing. A 15:1 k/d ratio in 109 F4/G2/G2trop and a fondness for air spawn camping.  

 

23 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

Me telling you how I play is not anecdotal - and it doesn't require maths.

 

 

 

It wouldn't matter if you were a god at RB you'd never make enough mod RP to beat AB in a fair 1:1 time comparison.

 

5 Kills in RB does not equal 15 in AB. 

 

The only way someone could make 3x in RB is if they were so bad at Arcade it would be self sabotage but also a good RB player. That's an unfair comparison because your not playing each mode equally. So this is either you  or your being intellectually dishonest to push your argument.

 

Quote

 

 

 

How do you argue with someone who actually thinks this carp?

 

I've been playing 4.0 and 8.0 Air AB all afternoon - it's a rainy autumn day here...  and haven't seen one case of camping all day - there - my anecdote screws your gross generalization!

 

 

Not a generalization when it's a fact. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

It wouldn't matter if you were a god at RB you'd never make enough mod RP to beat AB in a fair 1:1 time comparison.

 

5 Kills in RB does not equal 15 in AB. 

 

The only way someone could make 3x in RB is if they were so bad at Arcade it would be self sabotage but also a good RB player. That's an unfair comparison because your not playing each mode equally. So this is either you  or your being intellectually dishonest to push your argument.

Well then numbers:

Spoiler

Using 5 crews, delivering a really nice AB game. Got Thunderer, Hero of the sky and Mission maker in one match, win and first place. Income: 7.546 RP.

Average crew gain 45 crew xp. Roughly 5 crew xp per minute.

 

Spoiler

My only voluntary RB match so far, using 1 crew, making survivor, terror of sky and antimech, win and first place: 12.185 RP.

Average crew gain 121 crew xp. Roughly 6.7 crew xp per minute.

Now to me, it looks as if the gain per participating crew is roughly the same.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Dodo_Dud

[Daffan 6,158]

1 hour ago, Dodo_Dud said:

  Hide contents

Well then numbers:

  Hide contents

Using 5 crews, delivering a really nice AB game. Got Thunderer, Hero of the sky and Mission maker in one match, win and first place. Income: 7.546 RP.

Average crew gain 45 crew xp. Roughly 5 crew xp per minute.

 

  Hide contents

My only voluntary RB match so far, using 1 crew, making survivor, terror of sky and antimech, win and first place: 12.185 RP.

Average crew gain 121 crew xp. Roughly 6.7 crew xp per minute.

Now to me, it looks as if the gain per participating crew is roughly the same.

 

Your maths is wrong bro.

 

RB = 12185rp = 121 crew skills. 121 / 18m = 6.7 per minute.

 

AB = 7546rp = 226 crew skills (3x modifier). 226 / 9m = 25 per minute.

 

AB match took half the time. 226 x 2 = 452 vs 121. AB is 3.73x more profitable in terms of overall crew skill point gain.  

 

Playing 5 crews is entirely your choice. You don't have to do that at all. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

14 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

 

Your maths is wrong bro.

 

RB = 12185rp = 121 crew skills. 121 / 18m = 6.7 per minute.

 

AB = 7546rp = 226 crew skills. 226 / 9m = 25 per minute.

 

AB match took half the time. 226 x 2 = 452 vs 121.

 

Playing 5 crews is entirely your choice. You don't have to do that at all. 

 

3 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

your being intellectually dishonest to push your argument

 

On 09/05/2019 at 08:16, Dodo_Dud said:

The idea in air RB is, that you only need one crew, whereas in air arcade you will need many. Hence in air RB, crew points can be focused on one crew, while in arcade, they are spread.

 

14 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Playing 5 crews is entirely your choice. You don't have to do that at all. 

 

"Playing RB is entirely your choice. You don't have to do that at all."  (Good argument. Why didn't I think of it?)

Edited May 12, 2019 by Dodo_Dud

[Daffan 6,158]

3 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

 

Now do ground RB where you have 6-7-8 crews.

 

2 crew skill per minute perhaps?

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

9 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Now do ground RB where you have 6-7-8 crews.

 

2 crew skill per minute perhaps?

 

 

Don't distract again.

[Daffan 6,158]

56 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

 

 

 

"Playing RB is entirely your choice. You don't have to do that at all."  (Good argument. Why didn't I think of it?)

 

Just because it exists as an argument doesn't make it a good one. 

 

DW In the end, just like they did with research and silver lions, they'l make it more accessible. 

 

44 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

Don't distract again.

 

Hey it was your argument. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, DaffanZ said:

Now do ground RB where you have 6-7-8 crews.

13 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Hey it was your argument. 

 

No, it wasn't. My argument from my first post here was:

 

On 09/05/2019 at 08:16, Dodo_Dud said:

The idea in air RB is, that you only need one crew, whereas in air arcade you will need many. Hence in air RB, crew points can be focused on one crew, while in arcade, they are spread.

 

I have only referred to air from the start.

 

You are distracting again.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Dodo_Dud

[Thorne1 954]

4 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

GL blacking out in normal combat in AB.

They really are. Capping them is a death sentence because they are clustered all together and in the middle of map.

 

It is. Look at any of the top AB players, they'l all have two things in common and tell you the same thing. A 15:1 k/d ratio in 109 F4/G2/G2trop and a fondness for air spawn camping.

 

You can black out in AB turnfights.

 

And I'd really like to see those 3 field domination maps where the fields are 200 meters apart.

At least when you use anything with a BR higher than 2.

 

And this "#1 strategy" only works if all you want is a longer epeen.

 

This tactic won't (hopefully) win you matches, nor do AF AB matches consist solely of it.

 

So no, AF AB is not "all about flying over the enemy spawn and camping air spawn."

 

Maybe for those "top of the stats" players, but certainly NOT for the majority of players.

 

The same way that GF AB is not all about hiding in a safe place at the side of the map, then sniping people.

Or GF RB being all about getting just enough spawnpoints fast to hop in a plane and then bomb like there is no tommorow.

 

Maybe those tactics are what works best to bolster one's K/D or average scores, but they are not what those gamemodes are all about.

 

 

If you really want to oversimplify things then simply write:

You can buy crew skills with GE, crew skills make you perform better, so WT is Pay2Win.

 

Oh wait, it's in your signature.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Thorne1

[Daffan 6,158]

12 minutes ago, Thorne1 said:

 

If you really want to oversimplify things then simply write:

You can buy crew skills with GE, crew skills make you perform better, so WT is Pay2Win.

 

Oh wait, it's in your signature.

 

 

The pay2skip argument failed when buying it is 500x faster than actually playing the game. 

 

Crew skills are the only part of the economy that hasn't been changed yet, its time will come, if you don't care than why are you here?

 

My signature will be updated with a  tech mod forum thread when it is approved past the weekend. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by DaffanZ

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 minute ago, DaffanZ said:

The pay2skip argument failed when buying it is 500x faster than actually playing the game.

 

That seems to be your personal anecdotal problem.