IJN Kuma modeling issue

[aizenns 3,591]

The full name of the vehicle affected. If the problem is isolated to one difficulty setting (e.g. Simulator), specify which.

IJN Kuma

 

A detailed description of the issue you have or what you see as being erroneous regarding its representation in-game.

Name of vessel is Kuma, but modeling is same as Tama.

Also there are Contradiction of equipment years. IJN warships equip outboard cable in 1942, but 8cm AA gun replaced to 13 mm twin machine gun in 1934. Also 13 mm replaced to 25 mm in 1939.

Quote

Outboard cable

 

A detailed description of the fix you suggest. Provide sources including reference that underline your position. This is up to the discretion of the Technical Moderator handling the report, however the number of sources required depends on the type of source presented:

There are 2 ways to fix it.

• Remove outboard cable and rename "Kuma class Tama" (Before 1933)
• Replace 8cm AA gun to 25 mm twin AA gun, replace 6.5 mm MG to 7.7 mm MG and rename "Kuma class Tama" (1942)

I guess first way seems easy, but second way will be good change for players to get more better AA power.

 

Spoiler

Quote

Bridge

Quote

 

Photo: Kuma 1935

 

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Tama, 1935

 

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Funnel

Quote

 

In 1929 Kuma modify top of funnels as abacus shape to prevent rain water.

 

Spoiler

Document about funnel modification of Kuma. In this modification add partition in abacus shape top.

https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image/C05110842700

 

Quote

Photo of Tama in 1935 it did not equip outboard cable, but photo taken in 1942 there are outboard cable.

 

Source

Magazine Maru (1997) "[handy size] WARSHIP OF THE IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY vol.15 Light Cruisers [Tenryu class, Kuma class, Yubari]" Kojinsha publishers, 75-111

https://military.sakura.ne.jp/navy/c_kuma.htm

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/多摩_(軽巡洋艦)

[Pony51 6,572]

On 19/05/2019 at 02:59, aizenns said:

funnels as abacus shape

Could you describe more?  Does not look like abacus shape, unless you mean the beads of the abacus?

 

We will need more pictures. 

The source his poor quality.

 

o7

[aizenns 3,591]

1 hour ago, Pony51 said:

Could you describe more?  Does not look like abacus shape, unless you mean the beads of the abacus?

 

We will need more pictures. 

The source his poor quality.

 

o7

 

After patch of Dev client I check modeling of Kuma class but this issue has been solved.

(8cm gun replaced to 25 mm twin, 6.5 mm gun replaced to 7.7 mm)

Spoiler

 

 

[jon_man1199 563]

 

13 hours ago, Pony51 said:

Could you describe more?  Does not look like abacus shape, unless you mean the beads of the abacus?

 

We will need more pictures. 

The source his poor quality.

 

o7

Spoiler

Source: Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War by Eric Lacroix and Linton Wells, ISBN-13 978-0870213113

This might help a bit in regards to her funnels, they are described as antirain caps.

 

 

[Pony51 6,572]

Thank you both,

 

Now issue is funnel shape (I do not see what is wrong)

and the "cable" around ship.  

 

Anything else?

[jon_man1199 563]

4 hours ago, Pony51 said:

Thank you both,

 

Now issue is funnel shape (I do not see what is wrong)

and the "cable" around ship.  

 

Anything else?

The issue with the funnels is that as seen from the historical photographs they are raked towards the top. this is due to the fitting of antirain caps on the tops of all three funnels. In game Kuma's funnels are those as built and not the 1929 refit (Ie they are straight vertical without the raking out as they should be). The Cable itself is a degaussing cable (if I recall correctly) which was not fitted until the 1941 refit (in game the Kuma is in her 1938 fit (minus the funnels). Besides that unless @aizenns has anything to add that should be it 
 

Spoiler

Funnel shape can be more clearly seen here. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by jon_man1199
Added another Image of the Kuma to show funnel shape

[Pony51 6,572]

15 minutes ago, jon_man1199 said:

The issue with the funnels is that as seen from the historical photographs they are raked towards the top. this is due to the fitting of antirain caps on the tops of all three funnels. In game Kuma's funnels are those as built and not the 1929 refit (Ie they are straight vertical without the raking out as they should be). The Cable itself is a degaussing cable (if I recall correctly) which was not fitted until the 1941 refit (in game the Kuma is in her 1938 fit (minus the funnels). Besides that unless @aizenns has anything to add that should be it 

 

I see.

It all depends on what year of ship the game supposed to be.

Where does it say the Kuma is 1938 fit?

 

Can I have examples of other funnels?  I know very little about ships.

 

[joshwagstaff13 410]

33 minutes ago, Pony51 said:

It all depends on what year of ship the game supposed to be.

Where does it say the Kuma is 1938 fit?

Stat card.

 

 

It quite clearly says "Kuma class (1941)", which is a very unambiguous indication that the Kuma in-game represents the Kuma in its 1941 configuration.

[Pony51 6,572]

8 hours ago, joshwagstaff13 said:

Stat card.

 

Thank you!

Could see the card when I made request.

 

 

[jon_man1199 563]

18 hours ago, Pony51 said:

 

I see.

It all depends on what year of ship the game supposed to be.

Where does it say the Kuma is 1938 fit?

 

Can I have examples of other funnels?  I know very little about ships.

 

On the stat card it says it is the 1941 fit, but based on her armament and arrangement (once again minus the funnels and the degaussing cable (added in 1942)) she is in her 1937-1940 fit, in order for her to be in her 41 fit she would need to have the 7.7mm guns removed. As far as funnels go there a couple types
 

Spoiler

This is a Trunked Funnel, usually distinguishable by the large curve in them hence their trunked appearance. This type is usually found on Battleships, Battlecruisers, Heavy cruisers, and some Light Cruisers.

Kuma's funnels are rather unique though in that she was the only class to have those antirain caps as designers then figured out that there were other ways of keeping rain out and smoke away from the bridge.

Spoiler

Kuma class (note the funnel shapes again)

Spoiler

Nagara Class (the class following the Kuma built to a slightly modified design, note the straight funnels and different caps on them) 

Spoiler

Sendai Class (Successor to the Nagara class and the final development of the Kuma class, note the funnels change again this time there is four with once again a different cap)

 

 Hope these help 

Edited May 27, 2019 by jon_man1199
Updated info based on Stat card in game

[Pony51 6,572]

On 26/05/2019 at 17:17, jon_man1199 said:

Hope these help 

 

Edit: Moved to Production bug reports as I finish this one.

[Pony51 6,572]

@aizenns @jon_man1199

 

I am working to make final this report.

 

On 26/05/2019 at 17:17, jon_man1199 said:

On the stat card it says it is the 1941 fit, but based on her armament and arrangement (once again minus the funnels and the degaussing cable (added in 1942)) she is in her 1937-1940 fit, in order for her to be in her 41 fit she would need to have the 7.7mm guns removed. As far as funnels go there a couple types

 

Am I correct with these 2 options?  Did I miss something?

 

A 1937~40 version:

Different funnel.

No degaussing cable

 

A 1941 version:

Different funnel

Remove the 7.7mm guns.

 

 

[aizenns 3,591]

8 hours ago, Pony51 said:

@aizenns @jon_man1199

 

I am working to make final this report.

 

 

Am I correct with these 2 options?  Did I miss something?

 

A 1937~40 version:

Different funnel.

No degaussing cable

 

A 1941 version:

Different funnel

Remove the 7.7mm guns.

 

 

If fix to Kuma that’s correct.

 

But I think cheapest way is fix to Tama.

It needs only rename from “Kuma (1941)” to “Tama (1942)

 

 

p.s.

I apologize that I forgot to update or reply to you in this post.

[Pony51 6,572]

[Pony51 6,572]

18 hours ago, aizenns said:

If fix to Kuma that’s correct.

 

But I think cheapest way is fix to Tama.

It needs only rename from “Kuma (1941)” to “Tama (1942)

 

So in game the configuration is 100% correct for Tama (1942)?

 

It is not easy to change the file name, but perhaps they can make another ship.

I will make report now.

[aizenns 3,591]

4 hours ago, Pony51 said:

 

So in game the configuration is 100% correct for Tama (1942)?

 

It is not easy to change the file name, but perhaps they can make another ship.

I will make report now.

Yes,

2x twin 25 mm, straight funnels, 7.7 mm on bridge and outboard cable is future of Tama 1942 in the photo I shows.

 

Source of that photo is “WARSHIP OF THE IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY vol.15 Light Cruisers” but I forgot page numbers so I updated scan of it ASAP.

Edited June 18, 2019 by aizenns

[jon_man1199 563]

On 16/06/2019 at 15:05, Pony51 said:

@aizenns @jon_man1199

 

I am working to make final this report.

 

 

Am I correct with these 2 options?  Did I miss something?

 

A 1937~40 version:

Different funnel.

No degaussing cable

 

A 1941 version:

Different funnel

Remove the 7.7mm guns.

 

 

Sorry for the late reply, I have been traveling the past couple days. Yes as aizenns said in order to fix Kuma that is correct. I also do concur about just renaming her Tama as it would probably save a lot of time and effort in the long run. 

 

16 hours ago, aizenns said:

Yes,

2x twin 25 mm, straight funnels, 7.7 mm on bridge and outboard cable is future of Tama 1942 in the photo I shows.

 

Source of that photo is “WARSHIP OF THE IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY vol.15 Light Cruisers” but I forgot page numbers so I updated scan of it ASAP.

The one thing I cannot find a good source on though is weather or not she actually had those 7.7s on the bridge as they should have all been removed in the late 41 early 42 refit. 

[Pony51 6,572]

Thank you. 

[jon_man1199 563]

13 hours ago, Pony51 said:

Thank you. 

No problem. Did some further research last night on Tama in 1942 and it appears that the 7.7s were indeed removed from in front of the bridge during the December-January 1941-42 drydocking period, they appear to have been replaced by what appear to be small rangefinders. 

[Pony51 6,572]

4 hours ago, jon_man1199 said:

No problem. Did some further research last night on Tama in 1942 and it appears that the 7.7s were indeed removed from in front of the bridge during the December-January 1941-42 drydocking period, they appear to have been replaced by what appear to be small rangefinders. 

Will note.

Thanks

[aizenns 3,591]

@Pony51

I scan page of source.

 

Magazine Maru (1997) "[handy size] WARSHIP OF THE IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY vol.15 Light Cruisers [Tenryu class, Kuma class, Yubari]" Kojinsha publishers,

Spoiler

Page 68-69

Spoiler

Page 48-49

 

 

Also for my eyes 7.7 mm did not removed docking.

At least drawing of Tama 1944, place of 7.7 mm still used for MG base

Edited June 22, 2019 by aizenns

[Pony51 6,572]

Filed and archived.