Too many BF-109Gs in 5.0-6.0 matches

[MSGKI_HARA_UOOH 2,828]

I'm playing Japanese planes, its nowhere being able to compete against the BF-109 G series 5.0 and up since japanese planes at 5.0 and up arent as good at turning as it was in 4.7-3.3

Not only those BF-109s are perpetual energy machines, they can turn better than the N1K1/2, Climb better than the N1K1/2, even the 4.0 F4 have better firepower+turn than the N1K1/2.

Should there be a limit on how many BF-109s in the match? If people dont want its BR to rise or it gets high repair costs, shouldnt it gets limited spot per match?

 

[blastedryan 967]

109s have been the go to clubber plane for over a year now. No other plane has the combination of good nose mounted guns, good climb, and average stats in everything else.

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

The problem are not 109s, but all other fighters performing so badly now. And please stop asking for the few good planes we still have in game to be nerfed, it's the other planes that should be made better as they were.

It's not a question of why "everyone" is playing 109s but more of why "no one" is playing everything else.

Also on one of those screens of yours, you are flying a plane that has the same guns as german 109s and that can outturn them.
 

8 minutes ago, blastedryan said:

109s have been the go to clubber plane for over a year now. No other plane has the combination of good nose mounted guns, good climb, and average stats in everything else.

^This. Two years ago I would pick several japanese fighters, before that several soviet fighters and even before that several Spitfires over any 109.

Edited May 23, 2019 by *sardinha08

[clar1ty 77]

40 minutes ago, *sardinha08 said:

The problem are not 109s, but all other fighters performing so badly now. And please stop asking for the few good planes we still have in game to be nerfed, it's the other planes that should be made better as they were.

It's not a question of why "everyone" is playing 109s but more of why "no one" is playing everything else.

Also on one of those screens of yours, you are flying a plane that has the same guns as german 109s and that can outturn them.
 

^This. Two years ago I would pick several japanese fighters, before that several soviet fighters and even before that several Spitfires over any 109.

I mean, I totally agree that other planes need to be balanced up, rather than 109s nerfed, but realistically, what are the chances that's going to happen?  That Gaijin balances 50+ planes, or one series?

 

The reality is that, in AB, very very few planes can hold a candle to most 109s at their BR, and essentially at the moment it's semi-EZ mode.  I'm not saying a skilled pilot on either side of the coin can't make a difference, but your average pilot in a 109 will beat your average pilot in almost anything in 1 on 1 engagement , and there's what 5 or 6 G models and 2 F4's within +/- 1.7 BR of each other. 

 

Again, I agree with your points.  And no, I don't think this suggestion, nor many of the others is a fix either.  But I do think it's a little harsh to expect people to just be cool with it, and not have some kind of discussion around balancing.  

Edited May 23, 2019 by clar1ty

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

1 minute ago, clar1ty said:

I mean, I totally agree that other planes need to be balanced up, rather than 109s nerfed, but realistically, what are the chances that's going to happen?  That Gaijin balances 50+ planes, or one series?

They usually do it on all major updates and there is one around the corner. I hope this is the one too, I miss playing Spitfires, Bearcats, Yaks and other planes besides the usual ones.

 

4 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

The reality is that, in AB, very very few planes can hold a candle to most 109s at their BR, and essentially at the moment it's semi-EZ mode.  I'm not saying a skilled pilot on either side of the coin can't make a difference, but your average pilot in a 109 will beat your average pilot in almost anything in 1 on 1 engagement , and there's what 5 or 6 G models and 2 F4's within +/- 1.7 BR of each other.

Like you said "in almost anything", there are still a few planes that can beat 109s, that is the problem right now. And that is why the other planes that were great should be great again, Bf109 F-4 was 3.0-3.3 and it's now 4.0, still people keep complaining about them, did the BR raise solved anything? It's not about raising BRs or making them worse that the game will be better but by making the other great planes great again(and I didn't want to sound like Trump  ) Before they nerfed Spitfires pretty hard on 1.59 I would pick them over any 109, other times I would pick a Yak-3/9, La-7/9 or a Bearcat over them, or two years ago several japanese fighters, but for a bit more than a year 109s have been the less broken planes in the game.

 

11 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

Again, I agree with your points.  And no, I don't think this suggestion, nor many of the others is a fix either.  But I do think it's a little harsh to expect people to just be cool with it, and not have some kind of discussion around balancing.

And I understand them, but like it was proven and already said, it's not by making 109s worse or getting their BR raised that the game will be better for the rest. I basically stopped playing Air Battles due to the lack of competitiveness of other planes.

[clar1ty 77]

47 minutes ago, *sardinha08 said:

And I understand them, but like it was proven and already said, it's not by making 109s worse or getting their BR raised that the game will be better for the rest. I basically stopped playing Air Battles due to the lack of competitiveness of other planes.

Again, I agree.   

But Air Battles is all I have, I'm not interested in tanks, or ships.  I don't have the luxury of falling back on another game mode until some magical patch comes along and balances everything (which won't happen).  And that's why I would like the forum to be open to discussion.  So that new ideas can be floated, and not just shut down immediately.  Saying the 109s shouldn't be touched because they are the only planes not broken only carries so much weight, when you actually trying to play other planes regularly day in and day out.  Everything feels fairly balanced on strenghts and weaknesses, until 109s are put into the equation.

 

No one in this thread (at the time of writing) including me, have suggested that a BR change is the answer.  Perhaps BR is the problem entirely.  On the subject of the F4, you're right, putting it's BR up didn't fix it.  I haven't tried it, but I'm fairly confident I could take an F4 up to 5.7 or 6.0 and do well in it.  So, whilst I don't agree upping BR is a fix, nor in this case, limiting 109 spots would be fair (especially for people who just want to spade their planes and move on, but then are forced to change their plane at the start of the match because some dude wants to own nabs in his premium 109) it's nice to see people at least thinking a bit out of the box, instead of just calling for 109s to be "balanced" with BR changes.

 

With regards the few planes that can take on 109s, sure.  There are some.   But how many of those planes are similar to the 109 in that if you lose your plane, you have another 4 planes of almost identical performance and fire power to fall back on?

 

I really like the idea of knowing your plane and your opponents plane better than your opposition, and being victorious that way.  Which is why I try to play everything rather than "maining" anything.  But again, throw in 109s in the equation and your like, okay, maybe i can dive to the deck a bit faster than them.  Or out-roll MG151 fire.  I dunno.  I'm just yapping now.

 

Edit: Inb4 Bookends' Monkey's paw parable.

Edited May 23, 2019 by clar1ty

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

15 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

But Air Battles is all I have, I'm not interested in tanks, or ships.  I don't have the luxury of falling back on another game mode until some magical patch comes along and balances everything (which won't happen).  And that's why I would like the forum to be open to discussion.  So that new ideas can be floated, and not just shut down immediately.  Saying the 109s shouldn't be touched because they are the only planes not broken only carries so much weight, when you actually trying to play other planes regularly day in and day out.  Everything feels fairly balanced on strenghts and weaknesses, until 109s are put into the equation.

Again, making 109s worse is not going to make the game better, we should focus on making all other planes as good as they were. There are still a few that can compete with them, including the one the OP was using, or G.55s, both can compete with 109 Gs, J2M2 can easily compete with 109 Fs. 109s can still be beaten by other planes, like every good plane, but you won't go turnfight a Zero or try to stall a Spilfire LF. I want to play other planes, that was the main reason I stopped playing air battles, I could always play the few planes that are still good, but I want to play the other ones I used to love in the game, but trying to do that only brings me frustration so I don't.

 

26 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

No one in this thread (at the time of writing) including me, have suggested that a BR change is the answer.  Perhaps BR is the problem entirely.  On the subject of the F4, you're right, putting it's BR up didn't fix it.  I haven't tried it, but I'm fairly confident I could take an F4 up to 5.7 or 6.0 and do well in it.  So, whilst I don't agree upping BR is a fix, nor in this case, limiting 109 spots would be fair (especially for people who just want to spade their planes and move on, but then are forced to change their plane at the start of the match because some dude wants to own nabs in his premium 109) it's nice to see people at least thinking a bit out of the box, instead of just calling for 109s to be "balanced" with BR changes.

You can perfectly use a 109 F-4 at 6.0, in fact you will make it harder for the 6.0 planes than if they were facing an higher BR 109. So that won't ever fix it. About limiting the 109s, I'm always against limiting vehicles, I think players should be free to choose what they want to play, it's their "free" time, and also I don't think that would solve anything, the few 109s will still dominate the match and will also have less 109s to counter them. Now if Spitfires were as good as before, you'd have so many of them able to counter 109, same with Yaks, same with La's, or same with several japanese fighters, etc...

 

46 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

With regards the few planes that can take on 109s, sure.  There are some.   But how many of those planes are similar to the 109 in that if you lose your plane, you have another 4 planes of almost identical performance and fire power to fall back on?

If the other planes I've been talking about were as good as they were you would have a lot of good options, just count how many Spitfires there are in game at same BRs as 109s, japanese also have several options on different models(Ki-100s, Ki-61s, Ki-43s, Ki-84s, A6Ms, A7Ms) at same BRs, same for soviets(a lot of Yaks and La's options), and I would say same for US, Italy and maybe even France(probably the worse ones to compete with 109s). The potential is there.

 

52 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

I really like the idea of knowing your plane and your opponents plane better than your opposition, and being victorious that way.  Which is why I try to play everything rather than "maining" anything.  But again, throw in 109s in the equation and your like, okay, maybe i can dive to the deck a bit faster than them.  Or out-roll MG151 fire.  I dunno.  I'm just yapping now.

Then you may understand why I basically stopped playing air battles. Almost anything you can use in the game, even if you know their strengths becomes almost useless when Gaijin decides to nerf it hard next update and you are still facing a plane that is strong in about every aspect. 

 

[MSGKI_HARA_UOOH 2,828]

9 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

Also on one of those screens of yours, you are flying a plane that has the same guns as german 109s and that can outturn them.
 

 

 

Yep thats because all of my 5.3-5.7 planes cant outturn or outgun them in a head on.

Ki-61 Hei is the only viable plane when versing 5.0, but would still gets outturned and out sped by Bf-109 G2

 

The thing is with the BF-109 F4/Gs is they are not fun to fight against. 1-2 BF-109 can get around 11-20 kills (my record on G2 is 17 kills in a match)

by outclimbing everybody and spawn camping, or just plain better planes than the rest in their BR.

 

and no, i dont think they should be nerfed, i also fly the Bf-109s and i really appreciate how it flies and the awesome firepower it brings

i think the amount of Bf-109Gs needs to be limited per match, kind of similar when M1 Abrams were first introduced.

There can only be 4 german players using BF-109Gs per match. It doesnt matter if the guy is running full FW-190Ds, FW-190 A5/U2 or Ta-152s but the amount of player in the match using the BF-109 Gs can only be 4 people.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Samuel_Hyde

[PNS_SHOGUN 1,789]

I'm not sure what you're doing to get out turned by BF109G series in an N1K2/Ki-61 but user error must be at play.

[MSGKI_HARA_UOOH 2,828]

7 minutes ago, PNS_SHOGUN said:

I'm not sure what you're doing to get out turned by BF109G series in an N1K2/Ki-61 but user error must be at play.

 

i agree that the Ki-61 would have outturn G2 but the rest of 5.3-5.7 would be outturned and outgunned

[blastedryan 967]

4 hours ago, Samuel_Hyde said:

needs to be limited per match, kind of similar when M1 Abrams were first introduced. 

The abrams was never specifically limited.

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

7 hours ago, Samuel_Hyde said:

Yep thats because all of my 5.3-5.7 planes cant outturn or outgun them in a head on.

Ki-61 Hei is the only viable plane when versing 5.0, but would still gets outturned and out sped by Bf-109 G2

No, it won't, unless you're doing somethign wrong. Ki-61 can out turn Bf109 G-2 and it's guns are the same ones. About other of your japanese 5.3-5.7 being out turned, well, lower BR 109s can also out turn high BR 109s. The japanese guns were nerfed a while ago, two years ago they were better than the german ones, from time to time Gaijin does this kind of stuff, maybe next update they will be more powerful again.

 

7 hours ago, Samuel_Hyde said:

The thing is with the BF-109 F4/Gs is they are not fun to fight against. 1-2 BF-109 can get around 11-20 kills (my record on G2 is 17 kills in a match)

by outclimbing everybody and spawn camping, or just plain better planes than the rest in their BR.

So, now you're problem are not the planes themselves but those flying them? You should blame your team then, cause people only spawn camp cause your team doesn't climb to fight enemy fighters, energy is the base of every dogfight and it's natural that fighters climb to gain an energy advantage over their opponents, but if you do nothing about it then it's your fault. What you want enemy team to do, turn back and sit at the middle of the map waiting for you to sideclimb and equal their energy, come on.

 

7 hours ago, Samuel_Hyde said:

and no, i dont think they should be nerfed, i also fly the Bf-109s and i really appreciate how it flies and the awesome firepower it brings

i think the amount of Bf-109Gs needs to be limited per match, kind of similar when M1 Abrams were first introduced.

 So, you work all day and reserve a bit of time to play your favourite game on your favourite plane, then the game says "sorry, too many", what do you think that would do to the game, would you keep playing such game? People are free to play whatever they want and however they want(if whithin the rules of the game), there shouldn't be any limitation of that kind on any game.
 

7 hours ago, Samuel_Hyde said:

There can only be 4 german players using BF-109Gs per match. It doesnt matter if the guy is running full FW-190Ds, FW-190 A5/U2 or Ta-152s but the amount of player in the match using the BF-109 Gs can only be 4 people.

So you just limit more than half of the german fighter tree, do you even care about queue times or the game? What are the next ones you want to limit, P-47s, Spitfires, G.55s, Yaks, or just the ones that make your life harder? I'm sorry to say but that is a really dumb idea, and why 4 of them, why not 1, and who chooses which player has the right to use them? Can you see what you are asking and still think it's a good idea? I'm against everything that pushes players out of this game and limiting choice on what planes to use is one of those things, it's bad for the game and the game is not as healthy as it was in the past. Planes are constantly buffed and nerfed by Gaijin, right now Bf109s may be the best fighters around but that doesn't mean they are next week, besides in case you haven't heard they are gonna be nerfed, happy?

Stop asking the game to be worse just to be better or easier for you. Learn how to counter Bf109s instead, and yes they can be countered by several other planes, including the ones you are using.

Edited May 24, 2019 by *sardinha08

[clar1ty 77]

17 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

Again, making 109s worse is not going to make the game better, we should focus on making all other planes as good as they were. There are still a few that can compete with them

I still haven't suggested at all that making 109s worse will fix anything.  I'm just saying that as soon as someone comes on this forum to say how broken 109s are, every one jumps all over them claiming its fine and they should be left alone.  

17 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

I want to play other planes, that was the main reason I stopped playing air battles

So do I.  But, I don't want it to get to the point where I stop playing the game.  I would like things to be balanced better.  Preferably the rest of the planes but I would like the forum to be open to talking about solutions whatever direction they come from.  

17 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

You can perfectly use a 109 F-4 at 6.0, in fact you will make it harder for the 6.0 planes than if they were facing an higher BR 109. So that won't ever fix it.

I never suggested it would fix anything.  I'm glad you've tried it so I don't have to.  Surely that evidences what a nonsense broken flight model it is, that a 4.0 (previously 3.3) plane, could be up-tiered to 5.7-6.0 and do well.  And the only response is "everything's cool with 109s bois just wait for the patch that fixes everything else".  I'm bored waiting on that patch, and would like to partake in discussion about what the problems are rightt now, assuming there isn't the expected divine intervention.

17 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

About limiting the 109s, I'm always against limiting vehicles,

Again, I never suggested limiting anything except the ability to have a discussion around how broken 109s are.  Wrong dude.  But I get you're staying on topic here.

17 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

Now if Spitfires were as good as before, you'd have so many of them able to counter 109, same with Yaks, same with La's, or same with several japanese fighters, etc..

They aren't though.  I would love that to be the case.  But it isn't.  And 109s dominate the airspace almost every mission you go in.  Normally in groups. 

17 hours ago, *sardinha08 said:

If the other planes I've been talking about were as good as they were you would have a lot of good options, just count how many Spitfires there are in game at same BRs as 109s, japanese also have several options on different models(Ki-100s, Ki-61s, Ki-43s, Ki-84s, A6Ms, A7Ms) at same BRs, same for soviets(a lot of Yaks and La's options), and I would say same for US, Italy and maybe even France(probably the worse ones to compete with 109s). The potential is there.

Again they aren't as good as they were.  I don't much care about potential at this point.  And it just I'm tired of the mantra of "Everything will be fixed".  The current answer to my question: "how many of those planes are similar to the 109 in that if you lose your plane, you have another 4 planes of almost identical performance and fire power to fall back on?" is none.  I would like the forum to be a open to discussion about how it is now.  Not what the pipe dreams are. 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head, that 109s are more than half the german fighter tree, and because of how strong they are, and the fact that people can have a line up of 5, almost identical planes, it seems like 90% of your deaths are due to a 109, because the sky is filled with them.  You shoot a couple down, and it's like another 2 spawn.  It's not balanced.  You talk about countering them and turn rate.  The problem is, you only need to be an average pilot to know that it's the energy retention in manoeuvres that makes the 109 so strong.  Sure you might out-turn them, but any 109 pilot with an ounce of common sense knows that if you take the plane into vertical manoeuvres, and smash your face on the rudder and roll keys every now and then avoiding all the rice and confetti sparkles thrown at you, eventually you'll prevail.  And if you don't turn with them, they can climb better than you and boom and zoom or just force head ons.  Either scenario, with 3 MG151 depleted uranium howitzers, one nose mounted, you're eventually gonna be clipped by one and that's game over.  

 

I really really want the scenario you suggest to come to pass.  An at least fairly balanced air-game, that isn't overtly dominated by one fighter line.  I'm just tired waiting for it.  And obviously you are too, if you don't even play air AB anymore.  I just don't see how you can be so hard-line for the status quo.  How long are you willing to wait for a massive, all-balancing patch?  

 

I just want to say, though.  I'm not annoyed at you, or convinced I can change your mind.  Sometimes on forums, if people quote and disagree with people, it leads to a bit of salt.  That's not what I'm trying to do here.  I just think the status quo sucks.  When i first started the game, I remember reading old forum threads, and being excited for so many planes.  Spitfires, LA's, P-51s.  Only to discover that most of those planes are one trick ponies, or have terrible armaments.  Where as the 109s are just good to excellent in everything.  And every man and his dog plays them.

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

25 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

I think you hit the nail on the head, that 109s are more than half the german fighter tree, and because of how strong they are, and the fact that people can have a line up of 5, almost identical planes, it seems like 90% of your deaths are due to a 109, because the sky is filled with them.  You shoot a couple down, and it's like another 2 spawn.  It's not balanced.  You talk about countering them and turn rate.  The problem is, you only need to be an average pilot to know that it's the energy retention in manoeuvres that makes the 109 so strong.  Sure you might out-turn them, but any 109 pilot with an ounce of common sense knows that if you take the plane into vertical manoeuvres, and smash your face on the rudder and roll keys every now and then avoiding all the rice and confetti sparkles thrown at you, eventually you'll prevail.  And if you don't turn with them, they can climb better than you and boom and zoom or just force head ons.  Either scenario, with 3 MG151 depleted uranium howitzers, one nose mounted, you're eventually gonna be clipped by one and that's game over.  

I don't know for how long you play this game, if you only have this account and started last year, then you always played this game while 109s were the dominating fighters. If you started 2 years ago you would have a lot of japanese fighters being even better than 109s, even longer you would have several soviet planes being able to perfectly compete with 109s, and before that basically all the Spitfires we have in game, more than 109s in numbers. There were times when people asked for Spitifires to be nerfed too like some are asking for 109s, it resulted in Gaijin completely ruin Spitfire's FMs or their guns. This is not a question of why "everyone" plays 109s but more a question of why "no one" plays everything else. I basically stopped playing air battles, I could say I couldn't care less if they ruin 109s now and that what I care is that they fix the other planes that were great so I can get back to play air battles again, the problem is that I'm afraid that Gaijin would do just that and choose to ruin 109s too before fixing the rest. Also, and as I told to OP, dataminers showed that 109s will be nerfed on next update which probably arrive next week, so let's wait and see.

 

39 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

I really really want the scenario you suggest to come to pass.  An at least fairly balanced air-game, that isn't overtly dominated by one fighter line.  I'm just tired waiting for it.  And obviously you are too, if you don't even play air AB anymore.  I just don't see how you can be so hard-line for the status quo.  How long are you willing to wait for a massive, all-balancing patch? 

Right now, a few of days until new update arrives, since there will be changes to 109s as there will be changes to other planes. For years the thing I'm more interested on major updates is to check the changes to FMs, I don't care about new vehicles if the current ones remain broken.

 

42 minutes ago, clar1ty said:

I just want to say, though.  I'm not annoyed at you, or convinced I can change your mind.  Sometimes on forums, if people quote and disagree with people, it leads to a bit of salt.  That's not what I'm trying to do here.  I just think the status quo sucks.  When i first started the game, I remember reading old forum threads, and being excited for so many planes.  Spitfires, LA's, P-51s.  Only to discover that most of those planes are one trick ponies, or have terrible armaments.  Where as the 109s are just good to excellent in everything.  And every man and his dog plays them.

As far as I remember, 109s were always overally good, they were never the best at anything they were just balanced. You had a lot of planes that could out turn them, or that could out climb them, or that had better energy retention or  faster than them or with more powerful guns. But when Gaijin nerfs most guns and breaks their FMs, all those great planes couldn't keep competing with planes that have good FMs and the best guns. People have different opinions, I respect different opinions than mine. My favourite planes are still Spitfires, just not in this game.


 

[Challenger_TA 421]

The 109s f4 & g2 on up are incredible. I would likely move the G2 up to 5.3br. After doing that I would move some of the 190s down.  I would also like to see what has been stated other flight models improved. What is painfully obvious is the disparity in 20mm cannons effectiveness. We could discuss/debate the historic effectiveness of different 20mm cannons but this is arcade. I think a goal should be some degree of parity.  Hispanos & Russian 20s feel anemic/inconsistent compared to anm2 & 151 I would guess japan is the same. In arcade i'd like to see people wanting to use other nations instead of being pushed away from hundreds of aircraft. 

[GregKjr 520]

19 hours ago, PNS_SHOGUN said:

I'm not sure what you're doing to get out turned by BF109G series in an N1K2/Ki-61 but user error must be at play.

^This 110%

 

And can we stop crying about the 109f4 already???

 

The OP is flying at the Br start for JET TIER!  If players can't counter any/all of the 109's with skill by then.. They never will.

It is crazy to ask for a higher Br. The problem is a skill one not a Br one.

 

Ie: In be for 109k @ 9.3

[Daffan 6,158]

On 25/05/2019 at 09:21, GregKjr said:

^This 110%

 

And can we stop crying about the 109f4 already???

 

The OP is flying at the Br start for JET TIER!  If players can't counter any/all of the 109's with skill by then.. They never will.

It is crazy to ask for a higher Br. The problem is a skill one not a Br one.

 

Ie: In be for 109k @ 9.3

lmao the F4 is better than G2, yet a lower BR. Tell me more Mr. Pro. 

 

Oh look an F4 spammer. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by DaffanZ

[GregKjr 520]

10 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

On 24/05/2019 at 19:21, GregKjr said:

^This 110%

 

And can we stop crying about the 109f4 already???

 

The OP is flying at the Br start for JET TIER!  If players can't counter any/all of the 109's with skill by then.. They never will.

It is crazy to ask for a higher Br. The problem is a skill one not a Br one.

 

Ie: In be for 109k @ 9.3

lmao the F4 is better than G2, yet a lower BR. Tell me more Mr. Pro. 

 

Oh look an F4 spammer. 

 

If anyone actually looked at my player card....

Then thy would know I'm a P-47-D-28 spammer.

 

And no the 109G2 is whole sale better than the 109F4 ......

[PARAMI 478]

welp good news they're making the gunpods heavier 

[SOL_1 1,013]

How exactly did the G6 series become the bane of 5.0 matches and up now? I remembered from flying it and what everyone else's impressions were too, that the G6 has a 30mm gun and sacrifices virtually every other aspect that the predecessors had, to have it. I mean, it's not a completely terrible plane, but still, far from a show stopper like the F4.

And speaking japanese, KI-61's agility is very underestimated in my opinion. If you get the fight to a low enough speed, you'll start catching up to the 109s, mainly F4 series. Sorry if I don't recall the planes correctly, but aren't the N1K1 really far down the tech tree, like at jet tier? Japanese, like every other nation in general, moves towards energy fighting as the tree progresses. So of course your fighter at 6.0 won't be as nimble as a A6M2 or A6M3. What changes though, is how well your plane can attain high speed and handle itself in it. Try focusing less on getting directly up close and personal right away, but instead combine energy fighting with your turnfighting, and harass planes until they start chasing you, and then use your engine power and superior speed to build up enough distance in vertical height, that when they catch up with you, they will be all out of energy, and then you can get down to a direct duel.

[clar1ty 77]

10 hours ago, a__GIRL said:

How exactly did the G6 series become the bane of 5.0 matches and up now? I remembered from flying it and what everyone else's impressions were too, that the G6 has a 30mm gun and sacrifices virtually every other aspect that the predecessors had, to have it.

All of the G-series 109s have access to MG151 main-armament and gunpods.  I don't know if that's different to when you spaded it.  I personally found the Mk 108 a bit lacking for dog-fighting, especially with it's 65 rounds or whatever.  3x20mm vaporizes pretty much anything, without faffing about with two different cannon velocities.  I can't speak for everyone, but I would imagine most are running full on MG151 load-outs, based on the tracer-fire aligning when they fire. 

 

10 hours ago, a__GIRL said:

aren't the N1K1 really far down the tech tree, like at jet tier

5.3-6.0  same BR range as the G-series more or less, apart from the flying-boat version (2.7)

 

10 hours ago, a__GIRL said:

Try focusing less on getting directly up close and personal right away, but instead combine energy fighting with your turnfighting, and harass planes until they start chasing you, and then use your engine power and superior speed to build up enough distance in vertical height, that when they catch up with you, they will be all out of energy, and then you can get down to a direct duel.

I'm not sure I want to harass anyone with 3 MG151 into chasing me anywhere.   I swear their shells are beach-ball sized.

Edited May 28, 2019 by clar1ty

[SOL_1 1,013]

2 hours ago, clar1ty said:

All of the G-series 109s have access to MG151 main-armament and gunpods.  I don't know if that's different to when you spaded it.  I personally found the Mk 108 a bit lacking for dog-fighting, especially with it's 65 rounds or whatever.  3x20mm vaporizes pretty much anything, without faffing about with two different cannon velocities.  I can't speak for everyone, but I would imagine most are running full on MG151 load-outs, based on the tracer-fire aligning when they fire. 

 

5.3-6.0  same BR range as the G-series more or less, apart from the flying-boat version (2.7)

 

I'm not sure I want to harass anyone with 3 MG151 into chasing me anywhere.   I swear their shells are beach-ball sized.

 

109s can switch between armaments now, huh! Something I have been direly missing for em, so much better for flight and shell velocity. After making some sorties in the K4 with the 20mm, I noted that it seems to hit a lot harder in these BRs than what I am used to in the F4. I fly without gunpods, and still, enemies seemed to just snap after a few hits, I suppose that the higher speeds have something to do with it.

 

Anyway, you should fly with me some time, I could show you how to play with fire without getting burned.

Or at least, not a lot.

[PARAMI 478]

Hit me up a__GIRL. I've added you. Add me back and we can fly sometime. 

[ArthurBloss 633]

The G6 was always a bit sluggish, but was the first 109 with acces to the Mk 108. Used to be important when B-17's plotted out the sun. But what is it with lumping all Gustavs together ? G2, G6, G10 or god beware G14's are quite a bit different.

Another thing is 190's are not really an alternative for someone interested in surviving a match. Just one trick ponies and at a disadvantage fighting a decently piloted fighter of the same BR.

[CyberNapoleon 599]

The BF-109's in general could probably do with being toned down a little, they're the clubber's and stat padder's plane of choice and have been since the cannon buff. Ideally we'd balance all planes in AB since there's lots of overtiered aircraft which need to be fixed, but it's far more likely for a few planes to be nerfed than everything to be changed so I'll take whatever win I can get.