Word War Mode : Recon under Fire

[Eanrol 1,360]

Hello,

 

I'm creating this topic in order to deliver my feedback on the first season of WWM, even if the season if the season is not over yet (there is a session from 01h to 07h GMT tomorrow), this the last session for me.

 

While I've already played WWM in the CBT, it is the first time I've played WWM this longer (by that I mean nearly all the season).

 

I'm also precising that I've not taken part into the commander role, I've only played as a random dude.

 

First, I've found the vehicle selection way too much restrictive, espcially on the Allied side : 10 vehicles on maximum is way too low. For exemple, on Operation Nordwind, it prevent the Americans to use all the Shermans (75 and 76 alike) but also an all variety of aircrafts (P-47, P-38, A-20G, etc...). Something that also happen for the Germans (no Panther D and A, no Tigers I and II, no Jagdpanzer IV, no Bf-109 G-14 and G-10, no Fw-190 D9, no Me-262, no Do-217, etc...), and the British and the Russians on the other operations. I perfectly understand that players prefers some varaints to others, but playing the same variant other and other is simply boring.

 

Also, a particular negative point : in Operation Caen, I've made the following lineup for the British: Challenger, Sherman Firefly, Achilles, Sherman IIand Cromwell I. As you can guess, the 2 missing vehicle are the Churchill Mk VII and the Crusader AA Mk II. If the game proposed me those 2 vehicles, I can use them (if they are still available of course) but they will be stock. The isssue here is I've spaded those 2 vheicles since a long time ago so why would they be stock ? I understand that the crew will also be stock since there aren't used on an experienced crew but giving me those vehicles stock is just handicapping.

 

Second, the AB / RB mix is outrageous : I understand that it should be a compromise between AB players and RB players but having a lead indicator for aircrafts is a no go for me. In ground striking, skill should be the key point and the same thing can be said for SPAA. Having a lead indicator simply negate this skill and bring only frustation when you know the aircraft / SPAA have a lead assist.

 

Third, the spotting system is a living frustation : you see a guy ? Here you have his position on the minimap. No need to use your binoculars and your camera to spot people, the system is doing it for you. This is particulary when you realize flanking and ambush maneuvre are negateted by the fact your position is displayed on the map. How many times I've taking long path, been cautious to use hills, forest, bushes and terrain to not be spotted only to realize that half the ennemy team perfectly knwos where I am only by half-looking in my direction. How many times, the system displayed the position of guyes behinf trees and bushes while I've spotted them in the slightiest with my own eyes.

 

Fourth, the maps are a joke : taking Finland to represent Alsace is a joke, taking Advance to the Rhine to represent Caen is a joke, taking Poland to represnt a French or Russian village is a joke. And more generally, taking the same little maps we already knows and changing slightly the spawns points and / or the cap points is a joke.

 

Which bring me to fifht point, the game modes are also a joke : apart from Convoy and AA defense, there are the same we already know since the beginning of the game : cap the point(s) or destroy the entire ennemy team.

I'm playing the same thing as in random battles, except I've restricted vehicles. It's simply boring.

 

Sixth, the team composition is horrendous : I've played multiple matches where we are 4vs3 or 3vs 10. In the second case, it'sb the fact that's squadron players have priority other random players, but honestly having to wait until the other team have as many players as the first team bring only unbalance. 3 guys versus a all squadron of 10 players, what do you expect them to do ?

 

Seventh, the rewards seems pretty low, but since it's arcade setting, it's not to bad. Still, putting rewards based on individual performance when WWM is based on teamplay is completely lame. I'm playing WWM to have teamwork, not to have biggers balls than the others.

 

I will not talk about the balance between vehicles since that a paramleter that is constly changing and need it's own topic.

 

For the missions themselves I will talk only about 3 of them :

- Convoy seem nearly impossible for the defender : the attacker have excellent firing position with cover while the defender have to move whith the convoy in order to protect, which mean being without cover. And honorable mention for the AI which stuck itself in rocks and other vehicles or refuse simply to move.

- AA cover is horrible for the attcker : the rendering distance is way too low even on max graphical settings so good luck trying to spot things, the AI shoot whith airfield AAA accurracy and the dot system is a graphical orgy when all the dots appears.

- Aerial interception seems pretty good but why the spawn altitude is random ?

 

As for the Operetion :

- Vitebsk is russian roulette : or you can spawn a T-34 or KV-1 and it's a win, or you don't have T-34 / KV-1 and it's a loose.

- El Alamein is balanced. Until you realize the German team think they are Rommel reincarnated when they are in fact Hans the blind German.

- Caen has been a constent crush of German teams, notably thanks to the Challenger and his APDS penning everything it face.

- Nordwind has been pretty balanced; When there is no aicrafts.

 

That sum-up my impressions of this first season. Which will be my last : I found practically nothing new in WWM in comparison to random battles, and had not a single moment of fun in all the sessions I played. in fact it's more a frustation than everything else.

 

Waiting 6 years for this, what a disapointment.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Eanrol

[Wolf_89 2,525]

They also made a last minute change. On how many people could get the Spit. Went from 501-2000. To 501-1500.

:/

 

WWM could have been a good and fun game mode. But they failed so much on so many points.

[kissHUN 73]

24 minutes ago, Wolf_89 said:

They also made a last minute change. On how many people could get the Spit. Went from 501-2000. To 501-1500.

:/

 

WWM could have been a good and fun game mode. But they failed so much on so many points.

 

this is the exact reason why i am mostly avoiding all the time these "leaderboard" events and tournaments...

[DmGordeev 349]

40 minutes ago, Wolf_89 said:

They also made a last minute change. On how many people could get the Spit. Went from 501-2000. To 501-1500.

:/

 

WWM could have been a good and fun game mode. But they failed so much on so many points.

 

8 minutes ago, kissHUN said:

 

this is the exact reason why i am mostly avoiding all the time these "leaderboard" events and tournaments...

Why do some people on the forum like to lie, and others really like to believe?
On Wiki, it has always been stated that Spitfire is given for 501-2000 place, in the game it has always been indicated that Spitfire is given for 501-1500 place. The error was always in the game and nobody spoke about it.
At the same time, conditions never changed. Instead of throwing accusations, it’s better just to report bugs.

[Eanrol 1,360]

3 hours ago, DmGordeev said:

 

Why do some people on the forum like to lie, and others really like to believe?
On Wiki, it has always been stated that Spitfire is given for 501-2000 place, in the game it has always been indicated that Spitfire is given for 501-1500 place. The error was always in the game and nobody spoke about it.
At the same time, conditions never changed. Instead of throwing accusations, it’s better just to report bugs.

 

If it was stated on the wiki that it was 501-2000 and ingame 501-1500, then where is the lie in Wolf and KissHUN sentences ? It is the fault of the person who wrote the wiki page for giving the wrong information and it is your fault for not verifiying that all the informations given were correct.

 

As for the conditions, they have been changed, proof with the Surblindé : at first only the 500 first players on the learderboard will have it, then you could unlock with 100 WWM badges, then it was changed again and you could only unlock it by beeing in the first 500 players.

 

If you want an other exemple,  in the 2018 Christmas event (https://warthunder.com/en/news/5962-special-festive-quest-en) supporting fire task were changed to assist tasks just before the event start, an other proof that conditions changes.

 

Blame yourself for not verifying the given information is correct, don't blame the community.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Eanrol

[PhillipAlpha@psn 30]

3 hours ago, Eanrol said:

 

If it was stated on the wiki that it was 501-2000 and ingame 501-1500, then where is the lie in Wolf and KissHUN sentences ? It is the fault of the person who wrote the wiki page for giving the wrong information and it is your fault for not verifiying that all the informations given were correct.

 

As for the conditions, they have been changed, proof with the Surblindé : at first only the 500 first players on the learderboard will have it, then you could unlock with 100 WWM badges, then it was changed again and you could only unlock it by beeing in the first 500 players.

 

If you want an other exemple,  in the 2018 Christmas event (https://warthunder.com/en/news/5962-special-festive-quest-en) supporting fire task were changed to assist tasks just before the event start, an other proof that conditions changes.

 

Blame yourself for not verifying the given information is correct, don't blame the community.

 

The wiki was incorrect on a few things, wrong planes for lineups in El Alamein was the primary thing.

It became clear early on that the "real" info was in the game and not on the Wiki.

My biggest issue with this was that game mechanics/lineups would be tweaked as late as day of event 4 hours before it was to begin.

I could do with a "night before" update for season two.

[Pecanin 1,047]

Played 5 games in total 

 

Read all their posts about vehicles allowed ...selected lineup ...got into game and played 5 times with spaa that was forced on me

 

No reward at all ...after that didn't bother

 

Should have used hex map system ,if you are trying to implement historical gameplay (tank numbers and so on) then implement lack of reinforcements/vehicle breakdowns /lack of radio communications for USSR....maps should had fog of war until scouted would prevent sniping end to end 

 

all in all ..great idea ..bad implementation ...it seems to me all they developed in 6 years is clunky UI,everything else they took from game

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by xxx_freelancer_x

[Eanrol 1,360]

55 minutes ago, *PhillipAlpha said:

 

The wiki was incorrect on a few things, wrong planes for lineups in El Alamein was the primary thing.

It became clear early on that the "real" info was in the game and not on the Wiki.

My biggest issue with this was that game mechanics/lineups would be tweaked as late as day of event 4 hours before it was to begin.

I could do with a "night before" update for season two.

 

Then they should check and verify what's written in the wiki more often.

 

Simple exemple, I'm not in front of my computer and need to quickly check in what place of the learderboard I've to be in order to get what I want. The more simple way to know this information is to check the wiki if I don't have access to the game.

 

But it's always the same thing, misscommunication at every level : the dev say one thing, the mods an other, the wiki an other again...

[PhillipAlpha@psn 30]

Just now, Eanrol said:

 

Then they should check and verify what's written in the wiki more often.

 

Simple exemple, I'm not in front of my computer and need to quickly check in what place of the learderboard I've to be in order to get what I want. The more simple way to know this information is to check the wiki if I don't have access to the game.

 

But it's always the same thing, misscommunication at every level : the dev say one thing, the mods an other, the wiki an other again...

then you should complain to the people in charge of the wiki, afaik Gaijin arent contributors there.

[Eanrol 1,360]

1 hour ago, *PhillipAlpha said:

then you should complain to the people in charge of the wiki, afaik Gaijin arent contributors there.

 

It's Gaijin who is transmitting the infos to the wiki contributors.

[TheTurtleTanker 1,167]

Only thing that's really awful is the spawn system.

Spoiler

 

If that were fixed, World War Mode would be so much better.

Edited June 9, 2019 by TheTurtleTanker

[Zapuruzietis 635]

31 minutes ago, TheTurtleTanker said:

Only thing that's really awful is the spawn system.

WRONG.
There is the player balance as well
 

Spoiler

Also lineups are kinda unbalanced too.
There are some game modes that are almost impossible to win such as "convoy" mode , being attacker with fighters with bombs (no medium or heavy bombers) , SPAA with markers crush them , I had 90% win rates there no joke.
Also defending convoy from tanks is also close to impossible task(unless you are well coordinated squadron with CAS support).
At the start it was little effort to defend point with tanks  in tank vs tank scenario but devs have fixed that to be more balanced. Still there are issues like AI AT guns shooting you in your spawn in  "sand in sinai" , I got killed by AI AT gun as soon as my spawn protection went off, my tank was stock and slow , so I couldnt move fast from spawn to cover(really bad balance and no fun at all).

In my opinion for this mode to work , we need at least 2 more betas like this one to work it out. It has many flaws , I didnt play every mode equally so i bet there would be more people pointing out problems

[Wolf_89 2,525]

7 hours ago, DmGordeev said:

 

Why do some people on the forum like to lie, and others really like to believe?
On Wiki, it has always been stated that Spitfire is given for 501-2000 place, in the game it has always been indicated that Spitfire is given for 501-1500 place. The error was always in the game and nobody spoke about it.
At the same time, conditions never changed. Instead of throwing accusations, it’s better just to report bugs.

The error was always in the game and nobody spoke about it? So it should be 501-2000 that will get it? Then why did Gaijin change it on the Wiki to 501-1500?

And where did i lie? If the wiki was wrong. Then why did it take over 3 weeks for you guys to "fix" that mistake?

[EdwinVonBoxberg 1,656]

21 hours ago, Eanrol said:

First, I've found the vehicle selection way too much restrictive, espcially on the Allied side : 10 vehicles on maximum is way too low.

 

I believe they made it so that one could fit all the required vehicles in their preset (the maximum number of slots being 11) in order to use spaded vehicles with decent crew levels. I agree they could find a way to get around this limit for the sake of variety.

 

Also, why wasn't Italy included in the El Alamein scenario? We have had planes and tanks for very long now.

Edited June 9, 2019 by EdwinVonBoxberg

[Kaizy 2,348]

Since this is (was) an open beta event for a new game mode, under normal circumstances we would have been able to just say "meh, the changes could be expected all the time, more ppl are playing, new bugs are appearing etc.".

 

BUT, Gaijin decided to dig itself into the hole with fancy prizes to lure in the players that would never touched this otherwise and only then realized there is no way out other than to **** community once again.

 

Just to be brief - been testing WW for about 1,5 year now, even before me the first testers were very much sceptical about the fundamentals of this game mode. It is simply not good nor interesting nor fun in its core. It stands on an ambitious idea that was executed in a poor manner that one would actually expect from Gaijin after observing the work ethics of this company for more than 6 years already. They could have been warned about this. They have been warned, but again, true to their manners, they did not listen at all. After couple testing sessions I was 100% sure that this game mode will be total and utter failure and nobody will play it within a week of relase unless they manage to bribe players with good enough rewards. That was, is and always will be the only chance for this mode in its current state, standing on current fundamentals. Surprise surprise, that´s exactly what happened.

 

From what I have been told or heard on multiple streams from more than decent players it is clear, that majority of players participated in the event solely for the rewards. Other than that it can be described simply as a boring grinding event in which your best bet is to find a way to get as much of a rating as possible asap. And as many others I too managed to find the easy way. That is why I had to really grind for only 3 out of the 8 operations and still ended up 40th. After 5th Operation I had AMX pretty much guaranteed which was awesome...because I knew I do not need to play WW anymore. And I hapilly did not.

 

Since I know this game mode for such a long time already, I do not feel like giving long feedback nobody will listen to once again. Been there, done that, 0 effect. So I will rather demonstrate my overall feeling on a simple example:

 

I played and in the future will MAYBE play the WW again only if there is one hell of an award worth grinding. Gaijin set the rules clearly, so they will either have to keep bribing us with awesome rewards so that the skilled part of the community can keep farming the worse one while making hundreds of GJN on the Market, or they can stop bribing us, in which case we will never ever touch the WW again and Gaijin will have to watch it fall and die. On the other hand, I will FOR SURE play RB EC any time it is available for as long as possible even without any single reward being there. Somehow I do not care about rewars at all in EC. Wonder what it may be... maybe the fact that it is actually fun? Hmm, who knows. You see, when you grow greedy enough and when you do not play your own game to the point you loose the touch with it enough, you can get to the point where you are investing a lot of time and resources into the game mode that is successful and awesome only in your delusional mind while at the same time you are completely ignoring the actual best game mode you have created to date. That is the another (and much bigger) hole Gaijin dig for itself and then managed to fall into it. Good luck getting out of it, it will take a lot of time, energy and much more bribing to see any long term success from WW, or we have to come up with interesting way to connect EC to Market so it starts to smell like money and Gaijin finally recognizes its potential.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Kaizy

[Eanrol 1,360]

A couple of things I forgot to wrote about :

- The ability of seeing in the scoreboard what vehicle players of the ennemy team is using should be removed.

- The ability to stack SP between operations should also be removed : in the 2 last operations, I end up spamming Churchill Mk III and Challenger because I've 5000 SP. Needless to say I roflstomp everything in my path.

[Fracchia96 145]

5 hours ago, EdwinVonBoxberg said:

 

 

Also, why wasn't Italy included in the El Alamein scenario? We have had planes and tanks for very long now.

Because they would suck. Big time.

[Josephs_Piano 7,044]

1 hour ago, Fracchia96 said:

Because they would suck. Big time.

 

Like Crusader II's then?

 

The limitation to a single nationality is the problem here - it interferes with both balance and historicity - 60% of Axis tanks and planes were Italian, but the Brits had to put with with Crusader II's (which was fine) while the Germans did not have the (more-or-less) equivalent Italian equipment.

 

Plus also the Brits had to have Spit Vc's to face all 109 F's instead of mostly Kittyhawks and Hurricanes which would have been fine against the large number of Regia Aeronautica a/c that should have been on hte axis side.

[SameOldSvS 1]

you guys forget to mention the Commander side he leads and it gets super Frustrating and there is no reward given for leaders on WWM they don't even get points if they don't play maybe in the Next season give some Rewards to the leaders its really hard job fighting other good squads like there are 2 battles going on in the map and in the game but I really Enjoyed this Gamemode with my Squad.

[magazine2 7,957]

@DmGordeev The Wiki says 501 - 2000 for Spitfire and in-game it says 501 - 2000 for Spitfire now. I assume it changed and will be 501 - 2000?

[thefliris 55]

The Spitfire Mk.IXc is now available for the 501-2000 places.Thank you o7

@magazine2 It says 501-2000 in game now as well. (As my previous screenshot shows)

[Q_Garbage_Q@psn 2,092]

Another mistake this event: you can get decorations or vehicles you already had, without the option to exchange them.... and I don't have access to the market so I can't even sell the coupon

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

 

Interestingly, they also made the Surblinde a top 26 deal.

 

Still wish they gave some reward for map commanding, I couldn't get enough rating within the squadron to stay in the top 20 because I had to remain on the map 99% of the time.

[Miksuu14 28]

Hey @DmGordeev
How many hours we must wait after we receive all the prices? I have waited almost 1 hour for my amx now and I don't see it in my inventory. I only received my vehicle box 20 minutes ago (from squadron awards.).
I have bought one AMX for 120 GJN from the market but I guess this should not affect it?

Edited June 10, 2019 by Miksuu14

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

yep, still haven't received my personal reward for the season, only squadron reward. I hope this issue gets resolved soon.